Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Is Squirrel hunting sinful ?

jasoncran said:
Nick_29 said:
Actually FoC, you reminded me of the Kangaroo problem here in Australia. It's gotten so bad that the numbers of Kangaroo might have even out-numbered the human population (at 21 million). The authorities keep on developing new ways of killing them, so we can kill more faster. I don't really have a problem with that, as the kangarro population is out of control, and it needs to be more controlled, for a number of reasons, however I'd like to see more of the Kangaroos being used for meat, just like lamb etc. Apparantly it's really good meat, my father's tried some.
culling a heard to save the species as whole isnt sin nor evil.
we're not doing it to save the species (although I agree with you) - they'll survive no matter what they do. We're trying to cull them becasue they're pests to farmers and make their life very difficult. They're also destroying the land (land degredation and erosion).
 
Yes, I stated earlier. There are always extenuating circumstances. Obviously, if they need to be shot for our protection,from damaging fields, or from endangering us, or even because they are overpopulating etc.
I am not being stupid in any way about. I just am referring to the kind of attitude that allows an owner to beat their own pet, out of personal arrogance.
The final story is we do have dominion over animals. We should treat life on the planet with some respect, that's all. That includes killing every tree in site for financial gain.
We are given stewardship of this planet as well.
I guess that's what it says in Revelations...destroying those that destroy the earth.
In the end God requires an answer for all that we do in life.
God gave us a conscience for a reason.
 
God did not create animals to be killed for sport.

That is just your opinion and there is no biblical basis to back that up.

If you read Genesis, we were put here as master of the animals. Hunting animals for trophies has been a tradition that been around for thousands of years. Despite the current liberal ideology that animals have "rights", there no biblical concept to that assertion. Only people have rights.

I will choose to hunt trophy animals as our God ordained government allows.
 
Armor of God said:
God did not create animals to be killed for sport.

That is just your opinion and there is no biblical basis to back that up.

If you read Genesis, we were put here as master of the animals. Hunting animals for trophies has been a tradition that been around for thousands of years. Despite the current liberal ideology that animals have "rights", there no biblical concept to that assertion. Only people have rights.

I will choose to hunt trophy animals as our God ordained government allows.
Well, I am sure some animal right activists could tell you how many extinct species there are from over hunting and trophy hunting...I won't bother doing that. I am not really an animal rights activist...just someone that has a stronger conscience about how I treat them, now.
I never did find shooting an animal much of a challenge anyway. Some hunters make like it's a difficult task to hit an animal with a high powered rifle. To me that's more like throwing humans to lions. Not much chance the human survives. I have shot birds from 200 yards right through the head with a 22 cal.
I'm not really proud of it anymore. I've walked up and looked at my handy work, and said to myself...what did I do that for. It's really pretty self-serving.
There are 101 reasons for killing an animal. Just to prove my markmanship is about the lowest reason, in my mind.
That's why I don't do it anymore. As for being masters over God's creation (animals). Really God is the master...we are more the stewards.
I don't beat my pets just because I have dominion over them, either.
I appreciate your feelings on your rights. I am just a little more sensitive about not abusing mine.
 
The only 'restriction' Ive seen in scripture is that we are to 'regard' the life of animals. The passage in question seems to lend itself to being against animal 'cruelty' and doesnt seem to specify that even trophy hunting is 'sinful' as far as I can determine.
A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
(Proverbs 12:10 KJV)
I think its a stretch to insert that trophy hunting is any more 'cruel' than hunting for food given that in both cases the animals life is taken in the same manner.
Im far more concerned, quite frankly, with the treatment of 'crop' animals raised on farms who in a lot of cases are still alive when they are being torn part or boiled alive to be served at your local McDonalds.
These facts are admitted by workers who knew and know that many animals are still alive when sent down the rendering line...a problem that has caused these companies to be accused and fined more than once.

Even for a trophy hunter they can make sure the animal doesnt suffer needlessly because they have control over how the animal dies, and how quickly.
Can we say the same for the chicken, pork and beef we buy at the local grocer ?
My wife has a book and we have both done a lot of research on how horribly animals are treated that end up in stores and restaurants.
Frankly I dont trophy hunt as Ive never understood the point, but Im positive that trophy hunters are far less 'cruel' to the animal they hunt than the renderers putting that pork on our tables.
 
Also, I think we're also missing an issue that some animals that might be worthless as far as eating goes...couldnt get me to touch a coyote...may have to be hunted for control purposes.
In these cases I dont really see any problem with keeping the taken animal as a trophy.

And in many other cases these 'trophy' animals ARE being used for food.
A buck, for instance. The guy who takes the deer (which are getting out of control in my state) may not like eating deer, but hes certainly got friends who do and many states will take the meat of the animal that is donated for feeding the hungry.
So even tho the man himself may be 'trophy' hunting, it does not necessarily mean that hes blowing the animal away, ripping off its head and leaving the carcass out to rot.

I think that assuming that trophy hunting is 'abuse' is a just a tad extreme.
 
This is my opinion. Of course, I could probably make an excellent biblical case out of it, but I'm not going to here and now, just giving my opinion.

If someone is hunting solely for the "trophy", meaning one is not going to save the meat, nor eat it. One is not trying to control a pest or a danger, nor control a population.

If one is simply killing animals to put heads on a wall, to me that is a form of gluttony and/or greed.
 
Handy:
If one is simply killing animals to put heads on a wall, to me that is a form of gluttony and/or greed.

So because I have 10 mounted animals I'm a glutton? No, that is not an acceptable argument. Because you don't like my hobby doesn't make me a "glutton". I live within my means, give to the church, and hunting is not an obsession or idol in my life. So there is no basis to condem me for it. I might not like one of your hobbies but that doesn't make you wrong and/or a "glutton" or and idoler.

Follower: I think you make valid points and I'll address a few issues that are getting confused here.

1) I did not advocate killing all animals for any reason. As my original reply said, we have established laws and seasons that are acceptable to hunt certain animals and it should be followed.
2) Trophy animals such as deer, moose, bears, ect can be hunted and many times the meat is eaten in conjunction with mounting the animal. It isn't an either/or situation.
3) Yes, some animals were hunted to extinction but to say all trophy hunting will result in extinction is a completely invalid argument. That’s where the stewardship arguments comes into play (which I agree with). Animal populations can be effectively managed to conserive the species and allow hunters to hunt.
 
Keep in mind that my thoughts aren't to be applied to someone who is hunting primarily for the meat, pest or danger control, or population control, and then mounts the trophies. I thought I had made that statement, let me check....yep, I did. Since that part was left out of the quote, let me quote it here:

If someone is hunting solely for the "trophy", meaning one is not going to save the meat, nor eat it. One is not trying to control a pest or a danger, nor control a population.

I remember being part of a community play and we were doing rehearsals in the director's husband's trophy room. His hobby was hunting trophies. Sometimes he would sell the meat, or be hired by someone to hunt meat for them. But, only sometimes. According to his wife, neither he nor she particularly cared for game meat. He never hunted to put meat on his own table. Mainly he was a trophy hunter. In his trophy room he had the trophies he had bagged over the years. I'd say between the pelts, head and full body mounts, he had over 300 dead animals in that room, only a few of which were meat animals, the vast majority of which were killed for no other reason than his hobby. Now, that was just the trophy room. His shop in which he cleaned and prepped the hides and did the taxidermy had probably at least another 150 heads, full body mounts and pelts. And, according to his wife, this was by no means the full total of what he had killed over the years as he pursued his hobby.

I believe that that trophy room was most certainly an example of gluttony and greed. The vast majority of those animals died just so that their pelt or hide or head could lay around in some guy's converted garage.
 
I believe that that trophy room was most certainly an example of gluttony and greed. The vast majority of those animals died just so that their pelt or hide or head could lay around in some guy's converted garage.

So if the man is wealthy and can afford hundreds of mounts, who are you to decide how he can spend his money or what hobby he should have?

Is Jay Leno "greedy" because he owns over 100 cars? How about a guy who owns ten thousand baseball cards or a hundred thousand? What you're really saying is it's a sin to be wealthy or have an expensive hobby and have more than the average person. There are plenty of hobbies that I think are stupid yet people spend a lot of time and money on them and I can't fault them for that. It's all what you're into.

There is a difference between being wealthy and being greedy. Abraham was one of the richest people in the world and owned thousands of animals and had hundreds of servants yet was a man of God. Same with David. Same with Solomon. None of these men needed even a fraction of their fortunes yet were still faithful men of God.
 
For me the issue becomes gluttony and/or greed when a life is involved. Having 100 or even 1000 cars isn't bad if one can afford them. Actually, when one thinks of the money generated in the economy, it could be looked at as good. I have no problem with rich people, and just for the record, the man I referred to wasn't rich anyway. This subject isn't about rich or poor or how the wealthy choose to spend their money. It's about living animals.

An animal is God's living creation. He gave us dominion over the animals yes, but not to slaughter them just for fun. Remember, it wasn't even until after the flood that God gave His permission to eat the animals. Up until then, all living creatures were vegetarian. God gave Adam dominion over the animals before death even entered into the world, so "dominion" is hardly synonymous with killing.

As with human life, there are times when killing is OK. There is a time to kill. I don't think one person killing in excess of 150 animals for no other reason than their hide is the time to kill that God refers to.
 
Motive has a lot to do with it. If you are hunting an animal for sport or to put a trophey on the wall, then isn't that a waste of life? That dead animal is no further use, and you're helping that animal become extinct for no reason. I agree with justvisiting and handy on this.
When hunting for food or to control pests is done, sure, they may be killed in the same way, but that's not the point. Becasue if we hunt them for food, then they are serving a bigger purpose, so I think it is OK to hunt for food, and for pest control.

God gave us authority over these animals that He made. We are to use them wisely and sustainably. Do you really think God would want us to be killing them just for the fun of it and no other reason?
 
For me the issue becomes gluttony and/or greed when a life is involved. Having 100 or even 1000 cars isn't bad if one can afford them. Actually, when one thinks of the money generated in the economy, it could be looked at as good. I have no problem with rich people, and just for the record, the man I referred to wasn't rich anyway. This subject isn't about rich or poor or how the wealthy choose to spend their money. It's about living animals.

Your logic is inconsistent and you are misusing the term "gluttony". Animals have no "extra" inherent value compared to any other natural resource. The only life that matters is human life because we were made in the image of God and not animals. Everything else is put here for our benefit. Sorry if that offends people in our politically correct culture but that's the way it is. Biblical concepts tend to offend people, BTW.

That is how liberalism is corrupting our faith. Because our educational system and media is dominated by liberals who keep telling us how important animals and trees are, Christians have somehow latched onto that idea and have begun to change the very tenants of faith and are mixing up our priorities. The liberals tell us since we evolved from animals, we are no better than an animal thus they are our relatives and we need to "save" them.

Nowhere in the bible are we commanded to "save" animals or trees. We are commanded to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and bring the lost to a saving knowledge of Him. That is crystal clear. Everything else is little more than misguided feel good emotions because we own pets, see Hollywood movies with cute furry little animal characters, or some famous actors talking about how the poor little polar bears are being killed by those evil humans and their global warming.

People need to wake up and get priorities straight. The devil is the prince of this world and he uses these environmental and animals rights causes to derail the great commission.

I'm sure I'll get several of you telling me how wrong I am and how important animals really are. That's fine. Just think of this one last thing. The term "gluttony" keeps getting thrown around and talk of what is and isn't important for people to value. I would like for you to think a minute how much this culture is obsessed with animals and pets and how little it is obsessed with Jesus Christ.
 
Armor of God said:
Animals have no "extra" inherent value compared to any other natural resource.
Pro 12:10 A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.

Nowhere in the bible are we commanded to "save" animals or trees.
"Keep" not "exploit."

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
 
RND said:
Armor of God said:
Animals have no "extra" inherent value compared to any other natural resource.
Pro 12:10 A righteous [man] regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked [are] cruel.

Nowhere in the bible are we commanded to "save" animals or trees.
"Keep" not "exploit."

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
:thumbsup

This is God's creation that He made, and He made us overseers of it. Let's actually try to do a half decent job. :)
 
Your logic is inconsistent and you are misusing the term "gluttony". Animals have no "extra" inherent value compared to any other natural resource. The only life that matters is human life because we were made in the image of God and not animals. Everything else is put here for our benefit. Sorry if that offends people in our politically correct culture but that's the way it is. Biblical concepts tend to offend people, BTW.

I disagree with the idea that it is a Biblical concept that "the only life that matters is human life" and that "everything else is put here for our benefit". If you have some texts that support those claims, I'd like to see them. I think the overwhelming context of why anything is "put" here, (created) was for God's benefit and pleasure, not man's. We are His stewards, we care for His creation, we don't own it.

Gluttony is a term that is usually associated with food, but it doesn't necessarily mean "overeating". I think one of the best definitions of gluttony I've ever seen was "wasting resources on one's own pleasure". I'd like to give the quote, but I honestly cannot remember where I saw or heard that. It fits though. It's a common enough saying in newspapers and such that Americans are "gluttons for oil". Usually this charge is accompanied by a picture of a woman who fires up a Ford Excursion just to drive around the corner to pick up a loaf of bread. The idea is that Americans waste a lot of oil energy. (I disagree with that, btw, just using it as an example.) It is this concept, the concept of wasting resources on one's own pleasure that I am comparing trophy hunting to.

As far as how the Bible teaches us to treat animals, there are many texts that show us that we are to care for animals, not destroy them for the fun of it. I've read the Bible more than once in my life and as far as I can tell there are only four reasons given to ever kill an animal: as a sacrifice to the Lord; for food to eat; to destroy wholly an enemy land; if the animal kills a danger or kills someone. Other than those reasons, texts concerning animals tend to show that we are to care for them. Since this is Apologetics and Theology, here are a few texts that show that God looks out for the needs of the animals:

Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. Animals are to enjoy the Sabbath rest as well as man.

Exodus 23:11 but on the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, so that the needy of your people may eat; and whatever they leave the beast of the field may eat. You are to do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove. Animals can enjoy the gleanings of the field.

Deuteronomy22:6"If you happen to come upon a bird's nest along the way, in any tree or on the ground, with young ones or eggs, and the mother sitting on the young or on the eggs, you shall not take the mother with the young; 7 you shall certainly let the mother go, but the young you may take for yourself, in order that it may be well with you and that you may prolong your days. Here we see that it's ok to take the young of wild birds, or the eggs, but not to take the mother. This ensures that the mother can go on living in the wild, as God intended.

Job 38:41Who prepares for the raven its nourishment
when its young cry to God
and wander about without food?
Job 39:1"Do you know the time the mountain goats give birth?
Do you observe the calving of the deer?
2"Can you count the months they fulfill,
Or do you know the time they give birth?
3"They kneel down, they bring forth their young,
They get rid of their labor pains.
4"Their offspring become strong, they grow up in the open field;
They leave and do not return to them.
5"Who sent out the wild donkey free?
And who loosed the bonds of the swift donkey,
6To whom I gave the wilderness for a home
And the salt land for his dwelling place?


The whole chapters of Job 38 and 39 are God's answer to Job regarding the whole mess that Job found himself in through no fault of His own. The answer is that God is the God of creation, He is the one who knows all these things, not man and therefore man has no right to question God. In these two chapters we find that God did not simply create the animals, give us dominion over them and then ignore them for the rest of time.

Also from Job:

12:7"But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you;
And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you.
8"Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you;
And let the fish of the sea declare to you.
9"Who among all these does not know
That the hand of the LORD has done this,
10In whose hand is the life of every living thing,
And the breath of all mankind?


Especially in verse 10 we see that the life of every living thing is in the hands of God.

Even Jesus Himself said, "Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?" (Matt 6:26)

Yes, as Jesus points out, man is superior to the animals. But, just because man was set above the animals in God's creative order does not mean that God does not care about them.

I agree totally that our politically correct generation has it's values skewed with all the talk about "saving the planet". All of creation is in God's hands, not man's. But, that's my point, all of creation is God's, not man's plaything. To take the idea that God placed man as stewards of His creation as meaning that we are the only living things that matter isn't sound at all.
 
That was quite a moving post "Handy". Glad to see you have Godly respect for the earth...and I'm not condemning "Armor of God"...only saying...I am more in tune with what you are saying.
 
handy said:
An animal is God's living creation. He gave us dominion over the animals yes, but not to slaughter them just for fun. Remember, it wasn't even until after the flood that God gave His permission to eat the animals. Up until then, all living creatures were vegetarian. God gave Adam dominion over the animals before death even entered into the world, so "dominion" is hardly synonymous with killing.
It isnt relevant that we didnt eat animals in the Garden. GOD is the one who initiated our eating of animals...and God Himself ate animals as well (Jesus aka GOD).
What existed in the garden has no bearing on what we eat today.

As with human life, there are times when killing is OK. There is a time to kill. I don't think one person killing in excess of 150 animals for no other reason than their hide is the time to kill that God refers to.
And the killing of so many animals for sin when the scriptures themselves show plainly that it was impossible for the blood of animals to take away mans sin to begin with ? Wasnt that 'excessive' waste by your logic ?
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
(Hebrews 10:4 MKJV)
 
Back
Top