Is the Bible God's word?

[JudaicChristian]

My question is... "Is there any evidence that confirms that the bible is God's word?" As evidence I'm not very willing to take what is written in the Bible as evidence, as it doesn't really hold up well when examined. Anyways, looking forward to replies!

There are numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled, along with those who have given testimony of such events. The translations are not always perfect, and that is why a person must study those places in scripture that are questionable. Gods Spirit is presently not is this world at this time, but in the near future His Spirit will once again be present. That will be during the time of the Two Witnesses. Also some evidents can be found in history and archaeology.

Could you name some of those prophecies with the verses that go along with them? The prophecies seem to vague and can be attributed to most anything in most any period of time.

Are you new to using a computer? You can do an Internet search which will lead you to a multitude of sites. Copy and paste: bible prophecies fulfilled

 

[francisdesales]

There are numerous prophecies that have been fulfilled, along with those who have given testimony of such events. The translations are not always perfect, and that is why a person must study those places in scripture that are questionable. Gods Spirit is presently not is this world at this time, but in the near future His Spirit will once again be present. That will be during the time of the Two Witnesses. Also some evidents can be found in history and archaeology.

mdo,

Prophesies in Scriptures will not prove anything to the non-Christian. We can see "prophesies" while standing in line at the grocery store... SOME will eventually be correct...

Such prophesies in the Bible have meaning only to the Christian (the interpreter). They allow our already-existing faith to grow that much more. But they will NOT convince a thinking non-Christian, since they are vague.

It is the living, breathing Church that witnesses to God's Word found in Scriptures, found in the sacraments, found in each other.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Genesis 1:1 (Hebrew is read from right to left)

Substituting the place values for the 28 letters (this portion is from left to right for conveniance, with the first 14 letters marked off in red):

2-20-1-21-10-22 2-20-1 1-12-5-10-13 1-22 5-21-13-10-13 6-1-22 5-1-20-18
in beginning he created God *** the heaven and the earth

Features In The Whole Verse
The entire verse has 7 words.
There are 28 letters (7 x 4).
The three leading nouns in the verse (God, heaven, earth) have a numeric value of 777.
Their place value sum is 147 (7 x 7 x 3).

Features In The First Part
The sum of the first 3 words forming a complete sentence has 14 (7 x 2) place values (in red). Their sum is 140 (7 x 5 x 4) .
Of these 14 letters, eight are even (2, 20, 10, 22, 2, 20, 12, 10). Their sum is 98 (7 x 7 x 2).
This leaves the sum of the odd place values at 42 (140 - 98 = 42). 42 = 7 x 6
Three letters are wholly or partially silent (1, 5, 10). They appear in the first 14 letters: 1 10 1 1 5 10. The sum of these numbers is 28 (7 x 4).


(There are more features in this verse , which I am not quoting now )

Any mathematican could devise such a code, which is also found in numerous other secular books. This doesn't prove the Bible is from God. The "proof" is found within our hearts.

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

Genesis 1:1 (Hebrew is read from right to left)

Substituting the place values for the 28 letters (this portion is from left to right for conveniance, with the first 14 letters marked off in red):

2-20-1-21-10-22 2-20-1 1-12-5-10-13 1-22 5-21-13-10-13 6-1-22 5-1-20-18
in beginning he created God *** the heaven and the earth

Features In The Whole Verse
The entire verse has 7 words.
There are 28 letters (7 x 4).
The three leading nouns in the verse (God, heaven, earth) have a numeric value of 777.
Their place value sum is 147 (7 x 7 x 3).

Features In The First Part
The sum of the first 3 words forming a complete sentence has 14 (7 x 2) place values (in red). Their sum is 140 (7 x 5 x 4) .
Of these 14 letters, eight are even (2, 20, 10, 22, 2, 20, 12, 10). Their sum is 98 (7 x 7 x 2).
This leaves the sum of the odd place values at 42 (140 - 98 = 42). 42 = 7 x 6
Three letters are wholly or partially silent (1, 5, 10). They appear in the first 14 letters: 1 10 1 1 5 10. The sum of these numbers is 28 (7 x 4).


(There are more features in this verse , which I am not quoting now )

Any mathematican could devise such a code, which is also found in numerous other secular books. This doesn't prove the Bible is from God. The "proof" is found within our hearts.

Regards

No mathematician can do this.Some have tried, all have failed

blessings
C

 

[francisdesales]

Some have tried, all have failed

No mathematician can duplicate this???

I don't see the need to rely on such rationalistic fantasies. There is no need to turn our faith into rationalistic proofs, when we must admit that part of our faith is based upon mystery. Cornelius, in our hearts, we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and that is good enough. Math does not prove God is the source of the Bible.

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

No mathematician can duplicate this???

That is correct.

I don't see the need to rely on such rationalistic fantasies. There is no need to turn our faith into rationalistic proofs, when we must admit that part of our faith is based upon mystery. Cornelius, in our hearts, we know that the Bible is the Word of God, and that is good enough. Math does not prove God is the source of the Bible.

Brother, feel free to ignore this completely, but all the ignoring will not make it go away. Its old news in believer circles that the WHOLE Bible is also arranged in mathematical order, not only verse 1 of Genesis. Even the order of the books can be found through mathematics.

Obviously God placed this pattern in His Word, because it did not jump in there by accident. God wrote His Word, so God placed the pattern in it. Simple.

 

[francisdesales]

Brother, feel free to ignore this completely, but all the ignoring will not make it go away. Its old news in believer circles that the WHOLE Bible is also arranged in mathematical order, not only verse 1 of Genesis. Even the order of the books can be found through mathematics.

Obviously God placed this pattern in His Word, because it did not jump in there by accident. God wrote His Word, so God placed the pattern in it. Simple.

Cornelius, didn't you know that the order of the books of the Bible varies for the Jews and the Christians??? How about the Septuagint Scriptures?

You are relying on a circular argument to "prove" something.

 

[Cornelius]

Brother, feel free to ignore this completely, but all the ignoring will not make it go away. Its old news in believer circles that the WHOLE Bible is also arranged in mathematical order, not only verse 1 of Genesis. Even the order of the books can be found through mathematics.

Obviously God placed this pattern in His Word, because it did not jump in there by accident. God wrote His Word, so God placed the pattern in it. Simple.

Cornelius, didn't you know that the order of the books of the Bible varies for the Jews and the Christians??? How about the Septuagint Scriptures?

You are relying on a circular argument to "prove" something.

Yes I know it differs. I am saying, that through the numeric pattern, a way is shown, where they are arranged in the correct way.

But why are you continuing with this ? You do not want it to be true and I told you that its OK. You may step away from this.

 

[DarcyLu]

This is what is referred to as circular reasoning and doesn't make much sense. It is as if I were to say "Everything I say is true" and you would respond "How can you prove that?" and then I responding to that "Because I said it. Everything I say is true".

hi james, your statement struck me as funny. lol i was answering you not as an atheist but as a Christian who did not believe the Bible is the Word of God, i did not realize at the time that you were not a believer so my answers will not help you in the least. lol

How do you know what you are feeling (under the assumption that you are feeling something) is the Holy spirit? As for other books, the Muslims would feel the same about their Koran, the Hindus would feel the same about their Vedas, etc, etc.

they will not be enlightened or "feel" the same as they do not have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Cornelius]

What is the so-called "heptadic" structure that Dr. Panin discovered? Simply stated it is this: genuine Scripture, both Hebrew and Greek. where the numbers equivalent with the letters are added up properly. at some point: word, sentence, paragraph, or chapter, will always be divisible by the number seven! And, beyond this, utilization of "place numbers" determines punctuation as well as proper chronology of the various books. This mathematical phenomena occurs and reoccurs only in Holy Scripture and thus rules out all that is spurious. For instance, the "Apocrypha", the fourteen books written during the 400 year "inter-testament" period between Malachi of the Old Testament and Matthew of the New, have no numerics whatsoever and are thereby revealed as being merely of man. Numerous Greek classical writings have also been checked with no evidence of Bible numerics found. Thus Dr. Panin determined that Scripture and only Scripture has this numeric "signature of Divinity" within it.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/NEWS/n1363.cfm

 

[francisdesales]

I am saying, that through the numeric pattern, a way is shown, where they are arranged in the correct way.

But why are you continuing with this ? You do not want it to be true and I told you that its OK. You may step away from this.

The "correct way" that makes the mathematical invention correct. It is a circular argument.

Even the Jewish Bible today is not in the initial order as originally written. The original author was God, we claim, and if He "placed" a numerical pattern into the original Scriptures, our re-arranging it messed it all up. Thus, the mathematician takes what he presumes is true (my particular copy of the bible is THE Word of God, and it alone) and figures out some esoteric numbers that he makes fit into the current configuration of Scriptures. It is a circular argument that I find unimpressive.

Thus, I cannot agree that this "proves" anything. We accept God's Scriptures on faith, not such circular arguments.

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

Thus, I cannot agree that this "proves" anything. We accept God's Scriptures on faith, not such circular arguments.

Regards

I don't want you to agree that it proves anything.

 

[JamesWesley]

was answering you not as an atheist but as a Christian who did not believe the Bible is the Word of God

You are mistaken. I am not an Atheist. But you were right, I'm not a Christian either.






[quote:10dvyomr]they will not be enlightened or "feel" the same as they do not have the Holy Spirit.

[/quote:10dvyomr]

Could you describe to the best of your ability how the Holy Spirit feels?

 

[DarcyLu]

was answering you not as an atheist but as a Christian who did not believe the Bible is the Word of God

You are mistaken. I am not an Atheist. But you were right, I'm not a Christian either.






[quote:3ehxgesl]they will not be enlightened or "feel" the same as they do not have the Holy Spirit.

Could you describe to the best of your ability how the Holy Spirit feels?[/quote:3ehxgesl]
hi James, this is a hard one for me to describe, perhaps someone else can explain it better as i am not very good at explaning it, but i will try so bear with me. for me, when I am reading the Word of God, the Holy Spirit confirms with my spirit that what i am reading is His truth - it's a "just know it's true". it's complete joy and peace and the peace surpasses all understanding, even if something horrible is going on in your life - someone died and/or your entire family was taken away, even though you are sad and devastated, if you have the Holy Spirit you will have peace and be comforted, you will KNOW God will take care of you and all of your needs. it's a feeling that everything will be ok.
if a person with the Holy Spirit is convicted of a sin - then it's the opposite. lol i don't know about other Christians but for me, it's a physical pain in my heart and i know i have messed up, i feel horrible about what i did, sometimes i cry, i abhor what i did. i might have to ask someone to forgive me, i may have to "fix" whatever it is i did and i will always turn to the Lord and ask forgiveness from Him. and from the conviction "feeling" to the Lord's forgiveness "feeling" is night and day. you can feel the actually forgiveness and release of that sin from the Lord. again, sorry if it's not a very good explanation but hope it helps a little.

 

[francisdesales]

Thus, I cannot agree that this "proves" anything. We accept God's Scriptures on faith, not such circular arguments.

Regards

I don't want you to agree that it proves anything.

I seeeee....

 

[JamesWesley]

hi James, this is a hard one for me to describe, perhaps someone else can explain it better as i am not very good at explaning it, but i will try so bear with me.

I'm sure you'll do fine. All I ask is that you do it to the best of your ability.

when I am reading the Word of God, the Holy Spirit confirms with my spirit that what i am reading is His truth - it's a "just know it's true".

Have you thought that perhaps it isn't the Holy Spirit but that you already believe the Bible is the Word of God and you go to read the Bible "knowing" this. So your "knowing" that the bible is God's word before you even read it doesn't actually confirm much.

it's complete joy and peace and the peace surpasses all understanding, even if something horrible is going on in your life - someone died and/or your entire family was taken away, even though you are sad and devastated, if you have the Holy Spirit you will have peace and be comforted, you will KNOW God will take care of you and all of your needs. it's a feeling that everything will be ok.

I do not mean any disrespect when I say this, but what makes you any different than Muslims in this? I'm sure many Muslims would also same something very akin to this.

if a person with the Holy Spirit is convicted of a sin - then it's the opposite. lol i don't know about other Christians but for me, it's a physical pain in my heart and i know i have messed up, i feel horrible about what i did, sometimes i cry, i abhor what i did. i might have to ask someone to forgive me, i may have to "fix" whatever it is i did and i will always turn to the Lord and ask forgiveness from Him. and from the conviction "feeling" to the Lord's forgiveness "feeling" is night and day. you can feel the actually forgiveness and release of that sin from the Lord.

The same comment as above.

again, sorry if it's not a very good explanation but hope it helps a little.

You did perfectly okay. Thanks for the response!

 

[DarcyLu]

Have you thought that perhaps it isn't the Holy Spirit but that you already believe the Bible is the Word of God and you go to read the Bible "knowing" this. So your "knowing" that the bible is God's word before you even read it doesn't actually confirm much.

no, i don’t think so because if I come to the Word with an attitude or unrepentant sin than it’s an entirely different experience if I came to the Word through submission. i am sure you could ask others and they will tell you that sometimes when they read the Word they are not focused, etc and they come away feeling the same as before they read versus a time when the Lord is showing them something in the Word – they are different experiences.

I do not mean any disrespect when I say this, but what makes you any different than Muslims in this? I'm sure many Muslims would also same something very akin to this.

no offense at all taken, I am completely different than a Muslim lol as I have the Holy Spirit and they do not. They can not “feel†the same way as a person reading His Word, they can not know the peace that surpasses all understanding and they cannot experience His joy.
As far as forgiveness of sins, do muslims even ask for forgiveness – I don’t know, but no it would not be the same experience because muslims would not be forgiven by God, they do not have the Holy Spirit and they do not know Christ died for their sins, so their sins are not forgiven even if they ask.

 

[sheepdog]

Is the bible God’s word is a valid question and every Christian should be able to address it with confidence. On a forum like this one we can expect there are some who lay in wait and look for opportunities to create doubts in the minds of those who are unsure of why they believe as they do. Since Jesus said he was God’s Word living in the flesh causing doubt about the validity of the bible has the net effect of destroying the faith of a person. USE CAUTION on this topic!
First let’s look at the uniqueness of the bible. These items don’t prove anything in themself yet together demonstrate the bible is above anything else known to mankind and actually would be impossible for humans to create.
• The bible was written over 1500 years by over 40 writers.
• The authors were from all walks of life kings peasants, poets, musicians and fishermen.
• The writers were located on 3 different continents
• Books were written in the wilderness, dungeons, islands and palaces
• The writers were living and writing during times of war, peace prosperity and despair
• The writers wrote in different languages Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.
• The writers used different styles poetry, history, memoirs allegory, prophecy and many others.
• The writers addressed 100’s of controversial subjects such as marriage, divorce, government rule, character development, morality and parenting.
With all of these differences there is great harmony from Genesis to Revelation. In all of the books we find the finger of God pointing to Jesus. The law lays the foundation for Jesus, historical books prepares us to receive Christ, the books of poetry create a desire for Christ, the books of prophecies taught us to expect Christ and the New Testament teaches about the coming of Christ, how to interpret him and the consummation of all things at the end. To accurately understand God’s revelation of his purpose for us one should use scripture and scripture alone to interpret what the truth really is. Can you think of any other written document that can compare?
There are over 20 million complete bibles and over 20 million New Testaments bibles sold each year. It is possible to reconstruct the entire bible from scratch using books that have been written about the bible. The bible has been translated into over 2200 different languages, that is one third of the 6500 known languages. It has consistently transformed billions of lives all over the world for over two thousand years.
The bible has survived bannings, burnings and being outlawed. In all of these attempts to destroy the bible the scriptures have prospered and survived. Jesus actually did not write anything himself and had no money yet he has conquered more nations than Caesar, Mohammed and Napoleon combined.
One poster marginalized the fulfillment of prophecies calling them vague. The bible was very specific on hundreds of topics all of which happened as God said they would. Some of the more notable ones were Jesus and the Jews returning to the Promised Land. I think the real question should be how could anyone not believe the bible is not God’s word. A book I highly recommend is Josh Mc Dowell’s, The new evidence that demands a verdict .

 

[JamesWesley]

impossible for humans to create.

It is not impossible for humans to create a book and call it divine.

The bible was written over 1500 years

Can you prove that those authors existed? If you can, what evidence do you have that they actually wrote the books?

The authors were from all walks of life kings peasants, poets, musicians and fishermen.

What does this prove?

The writers were located on 3 different continents

Correct, but misleading. You make it sound as if one book was written on the southern most tip of Africa and the other in the northernmost point of Europe. The majority of the books were written around the eastern part of the Mediterranean.

Books were written in the wilderness, dungeons, islands and palaces

Again, what does this prove? The location of where the were written proves what? Not that the bible is God's word.

The writers were living and writing during times of war, peace prosperity and despair

Again, this doesn't prove anything.

The writers wrote in different languages Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

And?

The writers used different styles poetry, history, memoirs allegory, prophecy and many others.

This in my opinion does more damage to your case than good. The most damaging aspects of this are what you say are "different styles..history" and prophecy. If the history is different, doesn't that seem a little fallible to you? The prophecys are vague, very vague.

The writers addressed 100’s of controversial subjects such as marriage, divorce, government rule, character development, morality and parenting

Again, what does this prove? Many other holy books do this. Why is the bible any different?

With all of these differences there is great harmony from Genesis to Revelation

False, there are many contradictions through out the entire bible.

With all of these differences there is great harmony from Genesis to Revelation. In all of the books we find the finger of God pointing to Jesus. The law lays the foundation for Jesus, historical books prepares us to receive Christ, the books of poetry create a desire for Christ, the books of prophecies taught us to expect Christ and the New Testament teaches about the coming of Christ, how to interpret him and the consummation of all things at the end. To accurately understand God’s revelation of his purpose for us one should use scripture and scripture alone to interpret what the truth really is. Can you think of any other written document that can compare?

Myself? Yes, I can. As do the Muslims and those of other faiths.

There are over 20 million complete bibles and over 20 million New Testaments bibles sold each year. It is possible to reconstruct the entire bible from scratch using books that have been written about the bible. The bible has been translated into over 2200 different languages, that is one third of the 6500 known languages. It has consistently transformed billions of lives all over the world for over two thousand years.

And? Something akin to this can be said about the Koran, the Vedas, etc

The bible has survived bannings, burnings and being outlawed.

So have many other books. I suppose that The Origin of Species and Tom Sawyer are divine as well?

In all of these attempts to destroy the bible the scriptures have prospered and survived. Jesus actually did not write anything himself and had no money yet he has conquered more nations than Caesar, Mohammed and Napoleon combined.

Caesar and Napoleon were not religious figures.
The religion that is based upon Jesus and his teaching are responsible for some of the most horrendous acts committed to humanity during these conquests.

One poster marginalized the fulfillment of prophecies calling them vague. The bible was very specific on hundreds of topics all of which happened as God said they would. Some of the more notable ones were Jesus and the Jews returning to the Promised Land

If it wouldn't be to much trouble for you, would you mind posting the verses of some of these prophecies and then we shall see if they are vague or not?

I think the real question should be how could anyone not believe the bible is not God’s word

Perhaps this post gave you some idea of an answer to that.

. A book I highly recommend is Josh Mc Dowell’s, The new evidence that demands a verdict

Thank you! I'll check it out. I'm an avid reader.

 

[DarcyLu]

False, there are many contradictions through out the entire bible.

hi James, can you please list some of what you think are contradictions? thanks