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Dave Slayer
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Is the lake of fire eternal? And who goes there?
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Mosesjoel
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The “Lake of Fire†and Its Purpose
WHAT is the “lake of fire� We find this expression used in the Bible only in the book of Revelation, and there its mention is confined to the small area of chapters 19 to 21. A possible allusion to it is also found at Matthew 25:41.
“Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
Who or what goes into the “lake of fireâ€Â? Among the things mentioned are the “wild beast†and the “false prophet.†Death and Hades are put into this “lake.†We also read that the Devil (and along with him his associate demons) is hurled into the “lake†after his final attack on God’s sovereignty.â€â€Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14.
A SYMBOL
In examining these texts we readily see that the “lake of fire†is not a literal pool of flame. The “wild beast†is symbolic, as earlier shown in Revelation chapter 13, the “image†of it being described in chapter 17, where we are told that the seven heads of the “beast†represent seven ‘mountainlike’ kingdoms. These are understood by Bible commentators to be the seven world powers of Bible history. The five that had “fallen†were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that “was†at the time the apostle John wrote was Rome. The seventh has proved, from historical events, to be the Anglo-American World Power.â€â€Rev. 17:9, 10; compare Daniel chapter 8.
Similarly the “false prophet†is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A “prophet†claims to have inspired information for the direction of others. A “false prophet†would mislead others, to turn them away from God and toward false worship. What does this “false prophet†do to accomplish such purpose? He is shown in another guise in Revelation 13:11-17 as a two-horned “wild beast.†As such he is depicted as performing in front of the seven-headed “wild beast†the signs with which he misleads “those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.â€Ââ€â€Rev. 19:20.
Since the “wild beast†and the “false prophet†are symbolic, the “lake of fire†is necessarily symbolic.
Further supporting this conclusion is the fact that the abstract thing, “death,†is also hurled into the “lake of fire.†Death cannot be literally burned.
Moreover, the demons are thrown into the “lake.†These are angels, spirit persons. Being spirit, they cannot be hurt by literal fire, which is a physical product of chemical combustion. In fact, we read often of spirit persons manifesting themselves to humans in a flame.â€â€Ex. 3:1-5; Acts 7:30; Judg. 13:20; Ps. 104:4; Dan. 7:9, 10.
Of what, then, is the “lake of fire†a symbol? The Bible says that it is, or that it means or symbolizes, the “second death.†(Rev. 20:14) This cannot mean that everything that goes into it dies a second time, for “death and Hades†have not died or gone out of existence in the past. The expression “second death†distinguishes this death, which is permanent and everlasting and from which there is no resurrection, from the death brought upon the human race by Adam. Adamic death is one “kind†of death, a death that all men inherit through no personal fault of their own. The “second death†is another “kind†of death. Individuals that go into the “second death†merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God. This is evident by the action of those the Bible speaks of as being sentenced to the “second death.â€Â
Further evidence or testimony as to what the “lake of fire†represents and who finally receive the judgment of this death is found in Revelation 21:7, 8. After describing the good effects that the New Jerusalem will bring about in the earth, the prophecy quotes the words of God, saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.†All persons who choose such a way of life and spurn God’s provision of Christ’s atonement sacrifice for recovering from such a degraded condition will thus be obliterated forever from existence.
So God’s fiery judgment comes upon all those who are his avowed enemies. Of those of the “Gog and Magog†crowd who follow the Devil in his renewed attack on God’s sovereignty at the end of the thousand years, we read: “Fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.†They go into the “second death.†The “lake of fire†likewise burns up all humans who do not obey the “things written in the scrolls†of instruction during Christ’s thousand-year rule. None of these finally find their names written in the “book of life.†(Rev. 20:9, 12, 15) The same punishment of “second death†is executed upon Satan and his demons, who are hurled into the “lake of fire.†All are everlastingly dead.
There is not a spark of life in the “second death,†which is the everlasting punishment for those who willfully disobey God. There was not a bit of life in the first kind of death, that which came to Adam’s offspring by his first sin. That first kind of death would have been permanent had it not been for the love and undeserved kindness of YHWH in providing Christ’s sacrifice. The “second death†is permanent, for there is no atonement sacrifice for those going into it. The apostle Paul wrote:
“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.â€Ââ€â€Heb. 10:26, 27.
NO CONSCIOUS TORMENT
Those in the “lake of fire†do not have life. Their names are not written in any “book of life.†And life is life, whether spent in pleasure or in suffering pain. Accordingly, there is no consciousness or feeling of pain or suffering in the “lake of fire,†because there is no life there at all. Why, then, does the Bible speak of the Devil, the “wild beast†and the “false prophet†as being “tormented day and night forever and ever†in this “lakeâ€Â?â€â€Rev. 20:10.
It is because they are under the torment of restraint. When Jesus was on earth, the demons entreated him not to order them to go away into the “abyss.†(Luke 8:31) In a parallel account of the same incident, the demons asked Jesus: “Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?†(Matt. 8:29) This being put into the “abyss†will be a “torment†because it will be a restraint.
Satan and his demons are, therefore, to suffer the “torment†of restraint by being hurled into the “abyss†just prior to the thousand-year reign of Christ. They will be restrained from all activity during that thousand years. Then they will be loosed after the thousand years end. (Rev. 20:7; compare Revelation 11:7; 17:8.) After the final attack on God’s sovereignty, the Devil and his demons are hurled into the “lake of fire,†where they suffer the “torment†of everlasting restraint, without letup, in the “second death.†They are completely annihilated, never to appear again. Moreover, all that they accomplished, all their works, will be erased from the universe.â€â€1 John 3:8.
The truth that this being put into the “lake of fire†does not mean conscious pain of torment is shown in that the “wild beast†and the “false prophet,†both symbolic of systems or organizations, are spoken of as being “tormented day and night.†But systems or organizations cannot suffer pain. The “lake of fire†annihilates, destroys them. They are restrained from operating, forever. Never will such wicked organizations rise up to dominate or disturb mankind.
Also, death and Hades, mankind’s common grave, are done away with in the “lake of fire,†in that Adamic death will have been completely wiped out and Hades will have been emptied and will receive no more such dead. (Rev. 20:14) Certainly these two inanimate things can feel or experience no conscious suffering, but they can be restrained, put out of the way, forever.
ITS PURPOSE
The “lake of fire,†which means, or symbolizes, the “second death,†also ‘burns with sulphur.’ (Rev. 21:8) Sulphur ignites at a low temperature and burns quickly, thus tending to consume things that would not otherwise burn so readily. Sulphur was anciently used in fumigation. Thus the “lake that burns with fire and sulphur†would well represent a complete, everlasting destruction universally of everything and everyone that has “contaminated†it, carrying on filthy practices, challenging God’s sovereignty and bringing reproach upon his name. The “lake of fire†or “second death,†though always possible for God to use on the willfully disobedient, will not hold any threat to those who have been proved everlastingly loyal through the test of Satan’s loosing after the end of the thousand years of Christ’s reign. The faithful survivors of that test will have God’s guarantee of protection and the sustaining of their lives forever.â€â€Rom. 8:21.
Thu “lake of fire†is an important factor in God’s purposes. It is not something contrary to the personality of YHWH, who never conceived nor would ever countenance the eternal conscious torment of anyone. (Jer. 19:5; 32:35) It is in harmony with his personality of justice and loving-kindness, however, for God to clear out wicked troublemakers forever. For it is essential that justice be carried out in the universe for the sake of peace and order in behalf of those who want to do what is right.â€â€Ps. 145:20.
YHWH is not a ruler who is going to let crime and criminals continue to run rampant, taking away all peace and joy of living from law-abiding people. Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,†which is the “second death,†actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord, because they selfishly violate the laws of the Universal Sovereign. He rightly requires respect and exclusive devotion. This cleaning out of such hardened rebels is the only way the universe can have peace. May all who want life learn about YHWH’s ways so as to have their names written in the “book of life†for everlasting happiness.
WHAT is the “lake of fire� We find this expression used in the Bible only in the book of Revelation, and there its mention is confined to the small area of chapters 19 to 21. A possible allusion to it is also found at Matthew 25:41.
“Then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
Who or what goes into the “lake of fireâ€Â? Among the things mentioned are the “wild beast†and the “false prophet.†Death and Hades are put into this “lake.†We also read that the Devil (and along with him his associate demons) is hurled into the “lake†after his final attack on God’s sovereignty.â€â€Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14.
A SYMBOL
In examining these texts we readily see that the “lake of fire†is not a literal pool of flame. The “wild beast†is symbolic, as earlier shown in Revelation chapter 13, the “image†of it being described in chapter 17, where we are told that the seven heads of the “beast†represent seven ‘mountainlike’ kingdoms. These are understood by Bible commentators to be the seven world powers of Bible history. The five that had “fallen†were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that “was†at the time the apostle John wrote was Rome. The seventh has proved, from historical events, to be the Anglo-American World Power.â€â€Rev. 17:9, 10; compare Daniel chapter 8.
Similarly the “false prophet†is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A “prophet†claims to have inspired information for the direction of others. A “false prophet†would mislead others, to turn them away from God and toward false worship. What does this “false prophet†do to accomplish such purpose? He is shown in another guise in Revelation 13:11-17 as a two-horned “wild beast.†As such he is depicted as performing in front of the seven-headed “wild beast†the signs with which he misleads “those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.â€Ââ€â€Rev. 19:20.
Since the “wild beast†and the “false prophet†are symbolic, the “lake of fire†is necessarily symbolic.
Further supporting this conclusion is the fact that the abstract thing, “death,†is also hurled into the “lake of fire.†Death cannot be literally burned.
Moreover, the demons are thrown into the “lake.†These are angels, spirit persons. Being spirit, they cannot be hurt by literal fire, which is a physical product of chemical combustion. In fact, we read often of spirit persons manifesting themselves to humans in a flame.â€â€Ex. 3:1-5; Acts 7:30; Judg. 13:20; Ps. 104:4; Dan. 7:9, 10.
Of what, then, is the “lake of fire†a symbol? The Bible says that it is, or that it means or symbolizes, the “second death.†(Rev. 20:14) This cannot mean that everything that goes into it dies a second time, for “death and Hades†have not died or gone out of existence in the past. The expression “second death†distinguishes this death, which is permanent and everlasting and from which there is no resurrection, from the death brought upon the human race by Adam. Adamic death is one “kind†of death, a death that all men inherit through no personal fault of their own. The “second death†is another “kind†of death. Individuals that go into the “second death†merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God. This is evident by the action of those the Bible speaks of as being sentenced to the “second death.â€Â
Further evidence or testimony as to what the “lake of fire†represents and who finally receive the judgment of this death is found in Revelation 21:7, 8. After describing the good effects that the New Jerusalem will bring about in the earth, the prophecy quotes the words of God, saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.†All persons who choose such a way of life and spurn God’s provision of Christ’s atonement sacrifice for recovering from such a degraded condition will thus be obliterated forever from existence.
So God’s fiery judgment comes upon all those who are his avowed enemies. Of those of the “Gog and Magog†crowd who follow the Devil in his renewed attack on God’s sovereignty at the end of the thousand years, we read: “Fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.†They go into the “second death.†The “lake of fire†likewise burns up all humans who do not obey the “things written in the scrolls†of instruction during Christ’s thousand-year rule. None of these finally find their names written in the “book of life.†(Rev. 20:9, 12, 15) The same punishment of “second death†is executed upon Satan and his demons, who are hurled into the “lake of fire.†All are everlastingly dead.
There is not a spark of life in the “second death,†which is the everlasting punishment for those who willfully disobey God. There was not a bit of life in the first kind of death, that which came to Adam’s offspring by his first sin. That first kind of death would have been permanent had it not been for the love and undeserved kindness of YHWH in providing Christ’s sacrifice. The “second death†is permanent, for there is no atonement sacrifice for those going into it. The apostle Paul wrote:
“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.â€Ââ€â€Heb. 10:26, 27.
NO CONSCIOUS TORMENT
Those in the “lake of fire†do not have life. Their names are not written in any “book of life.†And life is life, whether spent in pleasure or in suffering pain. Accordingly, there is no consciousness or feeling of pain or suffering in the “lake of fire,†because there is no life there at all. Why, then, does the Bible speak of the Devil, the “wild beast†and the “false prophet†as being “tormented day and night forever and ever†in this “lakeâ€Â?â€â€Rev. 20:10.
It is because they are under the torment of restraint. When Jesus was on earth, the demons entreated him not to order them to go away into the “abyss.†(Luke 8:31) In a parallel account of the same incident, the demons asked Jesus: “Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?†(Matt. 8:29) This being put into the “abyss†will be a “torment†because it will be a restraint.
Satan and his demons are, therefore, to suffer the “torment†of restraint by being hurled into the “abyss†just prior to the thousand-year reign of Christ. They will be restrained from all activity during that thousand years. Then they will be loosed after the thousand years end. (Rev. 20:7; compare Revelation 11:7; 17:8.) After the final attack on God’s sovereignty, the Devil and his demons are hurled into the “lake of fire,†where they suffer the “torment†of everlasting restraint, without letup, in the “second death.†They are completely annihilated, never to appear again. Moreover, all that they accomplished, all their works, will be erased from the universe.â€â€1 John 3:8.
The truth that this being put into the “lake of fire†does not mean conscious pain of torment is shown in that the “wild beast†and the “false prophet,†both symbolic of systems or organizations, are spoken of as being “tormented day and night.†But systems or organizations cannot suffer pain. The “lake of fire†annihilates, destroys them. They are restrained from operating, forever. Never will such wicked organizations rise up to dominate or disturb mankind.
Also, death and Hades, mankind’s common grave, are done away with in the “lake of fire,†in that Adamic death will have been completely wiped out and Hades will have been emptied and will receive no more such dead. (Rev. 20:14) Certainly these two inanimate things can feel or experience no conscious suffering, but they can be restrained, put out of the way, forever.
ITS PURPOSE
The “lake of fire,†which means, or symbolizes, the “second death,†also ‘burns with sulphur.’ (Rev. 21:8) Sulphur ignites at a low temperature and burns quickly, thus tending to consume things that would not otherwise burn so readily. Sulphur was anciently used in fumigation. Thus the “lake that burns with fire and sulphur†would well represent a complete, everlasting destruction universally of everything and everyone that has “contaminated†it, carrying on filthy practices, challenging God’s sovereignty and bringing reproach upon his name. The “lake of fire†or “second death,†though always possible for God to use on the willfully disobedient, will not hold any threat to those who have been proved everlastingly loyal through the test of Satan’s loosing after the end of the thousand years of Christ’s reign. The faithful survivors of that test will have God’s guarantee of protection and the sustaining of their lives forever.â€â€Rom. 8:21.
Thu “lake of fire†is an important factor in God’s purposes. It is not something contrary to the personality of YHWH, who never conceived nor would ever countenance the eternal conscious torment of anyone. (Jer. 19:5; 32:35) It is in harmony with his personality of justice and loving-kindness, however, for God to clear out wicked troublemakers forever. For it is essential that justice be carried out in the universe for the sake of peace and order in behalf of those who want to do what is right.â€â€Ps. 145:20.
YHWH is not a ruler who is going to let crime and criminals continue to run rampant, taking away all peace and joy of living from law-abiding people. Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,†which is the “second death,†actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord, because they selfishly violate the laws of the Universal Sovereign. He rightly requires respect and exclusive devotion. This cleaning out of such hardened rebels is the only way the universe can have peace. May all who want life learn about YHWH’s ways so as to have their names written in the “book of life†for everlasting happiness.
duval said:
Angles"?
That reminds me of a song writer in my home city who made an album (back in the prehistoric days of records) that included a song he had written titled "Ten Thousand Angels". When the album came out, that song was the title of the album. Unfortunately they had printed all the album covers with "Angels" spelled "Angles". He used them anyway. 
totopic The short answer to this question is found in Rev. 20:10,14.15 where it says that the lake of fire burns FOREVER, and the devil, the beast, the false prophet, and all those whose names are not written in the book of life (including death and hell) will be cast into the lake of fire.Dave Slayer said:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son whoever believe in Him shall not perish and have eternal life."
Jesus says if you don't believe in Him, you shall perish, not eternal life and live forever in lake of fire.
Eternal torment is completely out of context of God's character of "love". It is obvious mistranslation. God is not sadistic. Get real people.
D
Dave Slayer
Guest
shad said:
You are still side stepping the original question. How do you interpret Matthew 25:41?
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Also, where in scripture does it say that God isn't sadistic? You seem to believe God isn't sadistic but that is based on human feelings and not scripture, otherwise you would have provided scripture to back up your argument. I wouldn't say God is sadistic but that He is a just God. If something seems sadistic to us, that is because we are humans and see it that way. God however, sees it completely different. To us it seems sadistic, but to God it's justice.
Matthew 25:41 (Young's Literal Translation)
"Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers"
If you believe as the Preterist and Partial Preterist, this verse and the infamous Mt. 25:46 verse are referring to the impending judgment of Israel in 70A.D. this is the end of the age of the Jewish sacrificial system and the beginning of the age of the Church. I believe all punishment is remedial as the Greek word "kolasis" means in the 46th verse (correction) and "eternal" there is better translated "age during".
Grace Bubba
"Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers"
If you believe as the Preterist and Partial Preterist, this verse and the infamous Mt. 25:46 verse are referring to the impending judgment of Israel in 70A.D. this is the end of the age of the Jewish sacrificial system and the beginning of the age of the Church. I believe all punishment is remedial as the Greek word "kolasis" means in the 46th verse (correction) and "eternal" there is better translated "age during".
Grace Bubba
Good points, Bubba. It is so important for students of the Word to use a Concordance, Lexicon and other tools to get to the truth.
By their usage it can be shown that "aion" in the Greek (translated "ever" in most versions) is not the synonym of "eternity." The noun, "Aion", means an unknown, but limited, time period, and is commonly translated "age."
Therefore, its adjective, "aionion", would mean "age-lasting" or "age-during".
Using a Greek-English Interlinear New Testament by George Berry, one can see that Matthew 25:46 reads, "And shall go away these into punishment eternal (kolasin aionion), but the righteous in life eternal (aionion)."
NOTICE: from the context, these are the nations who survived the great tribulation, and are being judged only how they treated Christ Jesus' brethren (Jews).
The righteous (sheep nations) are granted life to come, which has to be limited to the coming age, the Millennium. We read in a number of places that all men must give account for their deeds, and thus these must stand before the Great White Throne.
The unrighteous (goat nations) will die in the eternal (aionion) fire prepared for the devil and his angels (which I interpret as the lake of fire described in Rev. 21:14-15).
NOTICE: these goat nations could not be in the lake of fire eternally, for they must stand before the Great White Throne to be judged for all their deeds. And then, those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire--which is their second death.
THEREFORE, my conclusion is that the lake of fire exists only as long as God has a purpose for it.
By their usage it can be shown that "aion" in the Greek (translated "ever" in most versions) is not the synonym of "eternity." The noun, "Aion", means an unknown, but limited, time period, and is commonly translated "age."
Therefore, its adjective, "aionion", would mean "age-lasting" or "age-during".
Using a Greek-English Interlinear New Testament by George Berry, one can see that Matthew 25:46 reads, "And shall go away these into punishment eternal (kolasin aionion), but the righteous in life eternal (aionion)."
NOTICE: from the context, these are the nations who survived the great tribulation, and are being judged only how they treated Christ Jesus' brethren (Jews).
The righteous (sheep nations) are granted life to come, which has to be limited to the coming age, the Millennium. We read in a number of places that all men must give account for their deeds, and thus these must stand before the Great White Throne.
The unrighteous (goat nations) will die in the eternal (aionion) fire prepared for the devil and his angels (which I interpret as the lake of fire described in Rev. 21:14-15).
NOTICE: these goat nations could not be in the lake of fire eternally, for they must stand before the Great White Throne to be judged for all their deeds. And then, those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire--which is their second death.
THEREFORE, my conclusion is that the lake of fire exists only as long as God has a purpose for it.
duval said:
God does not have to be sadistic to be Just. If you believe God will torture people never ending just because they don't believe in Him, you don't know God.
BTW, Matt 25 has nothing to do with lake of fire. Faithful five virgins will be one of the elect and the other five missed it.
D
Dave Slayer
Guest
shad said:
Then what does "everlasting fire" in Mathew 25 mean?
D
Dave Slayer
Guest
shad said:
No, I am talking about this. I actually posted it in a previous thread perhaps you ignored it or just missed it.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
JudaicChristian
Member
The word "fire" is often used parabolically to mean "judgement." Genesis 18:25 (New International Version)Dave Slayer said:
25 Far be it from you to do such a thingâ€â€to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
If God "KILLS" the wicked, then how can they be alive in hell?