Is the Law God gave through Moses still in effect today???

[JoJo]

Pardon me for interrupting. Have you guys resolved anything yet?

 

[Aero_Hudson]

You know, I know I am a newb so to speak just becoming a Christian in April. I do not claim to be an expert of the bible. I will throw in my 2 cents here.

I have started reading Matthew. I am reading Jesus giving his take on the "law" as it was written in the OT. He clarifies many things and places somewhat of a new spin on things. He also states that...

Matthew 5

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

He goes on to say and I paraphrase here that if anyone breaks or teaches other to breaks any of the commandments they will be the least welcome in heaven. Those that embrace them will be called great in the Kingdom of God.

This sounds pretty clear to me that we are still subject to the Old Law. Maybe it is just me???

 

[follower of Christ]

Pardon me for interrupting. Have you guys resolved anything yet?

No
We wont either, most likely.

 

[follower of Christ]

You know, I know I am a newb so to speak just becoming a Christian in April. I do not claim to be an expert of the bible. I will throw in my 2 cents here.

I have started reading Matthew. I am reading Jesus giving his take on the "law" as it was written in the OT. He clarifies many things and places somewhat of a new spin on things. He also states that...

Matthew 5

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

He goes on to say and I paraphrase here that if anyone breaks or teaches other to breaks any of the commandments they will be the least welcome in heaven. Those that embrace them will be called great in the Kingdom of God.

This sounds pretty clear to me that we are still subject to the Old Law. Maybe it is just me???

Fair enough.
Now, shall we dig up the LONG list of laws that I KNOW no christian here is following ?

 

[Sparkey]

Let's try a different approach, shall we? It's an appeal to reason.

My children were given to me by God and I was responsible for them. As such, I was also given the authority to discipline and train them in the Lord.

Now though - they are grown and no longer directly under my authority. My purpose was good but I was flawed. "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

So my true purpose wasn't to be God but rather it was to teach my children about the things of God and point them to Him so they could later become men of God in their own right.

Now (today) both of my children are their own men - my youngest has two sons of his own. I no longer am responsible for their actions. But while they were being taught, then I was responsible - I'd have to pay if they broke our neighbors windows. But now, I am not responsible, and hence I have no direct "Dad" authority over them.

Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone.

If my youngest followed my advice to never drive over the speed limit < 55 means 'stay alive' > but was involved in physical abuse of his children - I would teach again about the "weightier matters"; he would soon find out that the LAW has a say in how he treats his family. The law has not passed away. All authority is from God.

 

[JoJo]

You know, I know I am a newb so to speak just becoming a Christian in April. I do not claim to be an expert of the bible. I will throw in my 2 cents here.

I have started reading Matthew. I am reading Jesus giving his take on the "law" as it was written in the OT. He clarifies many things and places somewhat of a new spin on things. He also states that...

Matthew 5

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

He goes on to say and I paraphrase here that if anyone breaks or teaches other to breaks any of the commandments they will be the least welcome in heaven. Those that embrace them will be called great in the Kingdom of God.

This sounds pretty clear to me that we are still subject to the Old Law. Maybe it is just me???

This is what I was trying to address in this post:

Didn't Jesus declare all foods "clean" in Mark 7:18-19? If so, this would seem like a jot or a tittle...unless the Law (capital L) Jesus spoke of in Matthew 5:18 is the "old covenant."

 

[Sparkey]

The first agreement (covenant) between God and man was that man can eat from every tree save one. That was the plan we see for Adam. Nobody had taken the knowledge of good and evil into them as yet. What is the fruit that we see from that knowledge?

There is none good save One. God is the only one who kept his part of the deal. Adam broke the law. What happened? The agreement, the covenant, the law was changed -- but the LORD kept His part. Instead of saying, "Well you broke your part of the deal -- and now shall DIE, we see God continuing with man.

As we continue to read we hear of the whole world being corrupt and God repenting of having made man... but we also see His faithfulness to the formal agreement - the Law. For any agreement to be valid it must be binding on two parties - otherwise it is not an agreement. "Here have an ice cream cone ---> OKAY" does not constitute an agreement, it's a gift only. What we see is that the agreement between God and Man does indeed change, after man breaks it, that is.

God made an agreement with Noah and his family. We might recall that part of the very first agreement (after sin) was spoken to the seed of the Woman, right? As we trace God's interactions with men we continue to see aspects of what God wants for our part of the agreement. Abram became the father of many nations (God has indeed kept His part of the deal) because God counted his belief, his "God-Trust" as righteousness toward him. Abraham believed God and looked for a city whose maker was God.

So the "deal" between man and God was expanded and our Father continued to teach and train the sons of man. The "Torah" is the law, yes? The first five books (written by the Holy Spirit through Moshe, that is Moses) became what is called "The Torah". Now, we know that man does not live by bread alone... The children of Israel (Jacob) learned that in the wilderness. The agreement expanded and God became "Our Deliverer" while the yoke of bondage was broken.

We can continue our study of the Law and gain more and more insight as the Holy Spirit teaches us but we can also understand that there are basically only two laws. Love God with your whole heart and with your whole mind and with all your strength being the first. What child of Adam has every fulfilled this? God established a covenant with Israel after they were shown the Mighty works of God. They were terrified of Him especially when they were invited to go up the mountain. If we look carefully we see that was the case - all were invited, one was willing. God placed his Spirit on Moses, and he was transformed. He put a veil on his face so that the children could not stare steadily into what would be the end...

Our "law" our "Covenant", also called "The Old Testament", our "agreement with God" was consistently broken. How is it possible for Jesus to have said that it will never be broken - never pass away?

 

[Paidion]

We need to examine the context of the passage to truly understand it. After saying these words, Jesus begins to contrast what the Mosaic law said with His own teaching which went to the heart of the law.

17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire.

So the commandments which one should not relax are Christ's restatement of the law. These are known as "the law of Christ" and are stated throughout Matthew 5, 6, and 7. He ends His teaching in this way:

"Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it." Matthew 7:24-27 RSV

Christ Himself broke the Sabbath!

John 5:18 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.

If you believe in following the law of Moses for yourself, you had better be prepared to have your son stoned to death if he is rebellious:

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives,and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

 

[Sparkey]

Jeremiah's prophecy may have been what Jesus was thinking about when he said he would not abolish the law nor the prophets.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jesus told us that with the law in our hearts we would be accountable to all that was in our hearts as well. If we look upon a woman with lust in our hearts... we are guilty of adultery...

This is the NEW LAW, the NEW COVENANT, THE NEW AGREEMENT, our NT delivered first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. That the debt we owed would be paid for us, that we would receive the Holy Spirit whom Jesus would send and that he would teach us all things. This is why we need no man to teach us. Our agreement was changed once again - and this time for the very, very good. The Prophecy, "Not by strength, not by might but by My Spirit, saith the LORD," can be seen.

... "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." <--- Peter ate of the living bread.

 

[lou11]

We need to examine the context of the passage to truly understand it. After saying these words, Jesus begins to contrast what the Mosaic
law said with His own teaching which went to the heart of the law.

17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21 "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire.

So the commandments which one should not relax are Christ's restatement of the law. These are known as "the law of Christ" and are stated throughout Matthew 5, 6, and 7.

The verses you cited (17-19) show us that "the law of Christ" is the law of God as given through Moses. At the time these words were spoken, there was no other law that this could have been referring to. What Christ did was to provide a commentary on the existing law. He pointed out where the teaching of the Pharisees fell short (e.g. verses 21,22). He did not add to or subtract from it (verse 19).

Later on we see in the letter to the Hebrews that the law was changed but that was only to show that Christ is the new High Priest and that the sacrificial system was given only as a teaching instrument to point to Christ. The change in the law then was to remove the ceremonial aspects. The NT does not give us a replacement for the law. It remains the definition of sin and righteousness (1 John 3:4).

There are some elements in the law (e.g. dietary or clothing rules) that are currently being debated as to whether or not they are ceremonial and hence not applicable to us today. But the idea that the whole of the law has been abrogated and replaced is foreign to Scripture.

 

[lou11]

Jeremiah's prophecy may have been what Jesus was thinking about when he said he would not abolish the law nor the prophets.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jesus told us that with the law in our hearts we would be accountable to all that was in our hearts as well. If we look upon a woman with lust in our hearts... we are guilty of adultery...

This is the NEW LAW, the NEW COVENANT, THE NEW AGREEMENT, our NT delivered first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. That the debt we owed would be paid for us, that we would receive the Holy Spirit whom Jesus would send and that he would teach us all things. This is why we need no man to teach us. Our agreement was changed once again - and this time for the very, very good. The Prophecy, "Not by strength, not by might but by My Spirit, saith the LORD," can be seen.

... "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." <--- Peter ate of the living bread.

I must agree with all you say here but would like to point out that the the law written in our hearts is not different from the law given by Moses (other than the removal of the sacrifices and ceremonies). Verse 33 says, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts." It is God's law itself that is placed in our hearts.

 

[Sparkey]

I must agree with all you say here but would like to point out that the the law written in our hearts is not different from the law given by Moses (other than the removal of the sacrifices and ceremonies). Verse 33 says, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts." It is God's law itself that is placed in our hearts.

You are correct. :yes

May I return the favor and point to the "Weightier matters of the law"? <Not by way of correction though>
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I don't personally think that the law concerning sacrifice and ceremony was actually removed. I am certain that you keep the Passover and all the feasts as you follow after Christ in truth. I'm just being a 'technocrat' here - pardon me, because I know you know this too - sometimes words themselves stumble us, yes? I also appreciate your :amen to the truth of what was said, but would point out that I am not speaking my words here, these are words delivered to us and no new thing is being taught.

 

[lou11]

I don't personally think that the law concerning sacrifice and ceremony was actually removed. I am certain that you keep the Passover and all the feasts as you follow after Christ in truth.

A good point! In this sense then, none of the law has been abrogated.

We might also consider that the Lord's Supper, "this do in remembrance of me," is a substitute for the sacrifices.

 

[follower of Christ]

One of my mentors once explained his view on the matter of coming from the law, the 'tutor', to grace and how he teaches the concept to his congregation.

He lives on a very dangerous road in the mountains of PA where he took a job as a pastor back in the mid 80s. Trucks come down the hill very fast and in the winter theres a really serious chance that they wouldnt be able to stop if something was in the road and they had to hit the brakes.

When his children were little he told them not to play in the front yard. They never really understood 'why' because he simply told them to NOT play in the front yard.
Between us, its a VERY narrow yard and a truck could easily run off the road and anything in the yard would be leveled if it did.
So while his kids were young, they simply knew that they werent allowed to play in the front yard. It didnt matter if they understood his reasoning or not.

When the kids were older, they finally understood his reasoning. They could see for themselves 'why' dad had told them all those years not to play in the front yard.
And now, being mature men, they could could follow that same precept WITHOUT the commandment because now their own eyes are opened to the truth so they can follow that truth because now it is understood in their hearts and minds.


Its really not that complicated a concept. We are NO longer under the law. Paul proves this fact quite conclusively regardless of how much we may insist that we are under law.
Frankly, I think those who wish to be under law should really just convert to Judaism and get it over with.


.

 

[duval]

I agree with Follower of Christ. We are not under the law of the OT. Neither the 10 commandments as such nor what is called the ceremonial lay.

God bless,
duval

 

[Drew]

I must agree with all you say here but would like to point out that the the law written in our hearts is not different from the law given by Moses (other than the removal of the sacrifices and ceremonies). Verse 33 says, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts." It is God's law itself that is placed in our hearts.

I disagree. While it is indeed true that the New Testament teaches that the "law" is written on our hearts, this is not a matter of "transcribing" the "moral" part of the Law of Moses on our hearts while throwing the sacrifice and ceremony stuff out. Paul is quite clear at several places that the Law of Moses in its entirety has been abolished. So whatever this "law" written on the heart turns out to be, it is not simply a "mental copy" of the moral parts of the law of Moses.

Besides, I would challenge anyone to provide a Biblical basis for carving up the Law of Moses into a "moral" part and a ceremonial part. Nowhere in the Scriptures is there anything that endorses the idea that "this part and not that part" of the Law of Moses has been done away with.

What is the "law that is written on our hearts" if not the moral part of the Law of Moses. Paul gives the answer in Romans 10 - it is Christian faith.

 

[Drew]

A good point! In this sense then, none of the law has been abrogated.

I think that in Mark 7, Jesus clearly overturns the Levitical food laws.

In Mark 7, Jesus does indeed repudiate the setting aside of God’s Laws in favour of human ones. But Jesus clearly goes beyond this and overturns some of the Levitical food laws:

15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16["If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] 17When he had left the crowd and entered (P)the house, (Q)His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Jesus really cannot be misunderstood here - he clearly states that all foods are clean. This cannot be reconciled with the Levitical food laws which clearly state some foods are unclean.

So the fact that Jesus also repudiates abandonment of Torah in favour of man-made laws must not be seen as His only point here. It clearly is not - in addition to repudiating such add-ons, He also declares all foods clean. And that is at variance with Torah itself, not man's distortions of it.

This may seem incoherent – if Jesus criticizes the substitution of man-made laws for Torah, surely he must be affirming Torah, mustn’t He? The answer is no. It is entirely coherent for Jesus to offer an historical critique – telling the Pharisees that they tossed aside God’s laws and replaced them with human ones – and yet go on to declare the abolition of Torah itself, as He so clearly does here. Jesus’ critique of the Pharisees does not endorse the continued applicability of Torah – He is critiquing their attitude to it in the time of its applicability, which, interestingly, comes to an end in His very declaration that all foods are indeed clean – a clear overturning of Levitical food laws themselves.

 

[Sparkey]

A good point! In this sense then, none of the law has been abrogated.

I think that in Mark 7, Jesus clearly overturns the Levitical food laws.

In Mark 7, Jesus does indeed repudiate the setting aside of God’s Laws in favour of human ones. But Jesus clearly goes beyond this and overturns some of the Levitical food laws:

15there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. 16["If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."] 17When he had left the crowd and entered (P)the house, (Q)His disciples questioned Him about the parable. 18And He said to them, "Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)

Jesus really cannot be misunderstood here - he clearly states that all foods are clean. This cannot be reconciled with the Levitical food laws which clearly state some foods are unclean.

So the fact that Jesus also repudiates abandonment of Torah in favour of man-made laws must not be seen as His only point here. It clearly is not - in addition to repudiating such add-ons, He also declares all foods clean. And that is at variance with Torah itself, not man's distortions of it.

...a clear overturning of Levitical food laws themselves.

It has been stated that Mark 7:19 is a "clear overturning".

This has been asked and answered within this thread. For reference please read my response to Jo-Jo found here: http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=465614#p465614
Believe me, I have a real heart for this tender-hearted saint and would never teach her something that was unproven. I also know that she understood the "jist" - the heart of what was being said, "Not one jot nor tittle..." and still does. Pardon my correcting you here but the part you bolded -AND- underlined cannot be found in the Greek at all.

Mark 7:19

• (LITV) This is because it does not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and goes out into the waste-bowl, purging all the foods.
  [/*:m:lb2zctwv]
• (MKJV) because it does not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and goes out into the waste-bowl, purifying all food?[/*:m:lb2zctwv]

So, what are the foods or "edibles", the βÃÂῶμα -or- (GK)brÃ…Âma that Jesus was talking about?

Again per John Gill: "purging all meats";
"that which it leaves behind [and doesn't go into the sewer] is pure and nourishing; and whatever is gross and impure, is carried with it into the draught, so that nothing remains in the man that is defiling."

Allow me to appeal to your reason; certainly Jesus did not declare live monkey brains "clean" yet some do eat thereof. Also note that Bible translators put things in slightly gray text to indicate that those words are not found in the original. Before you turn to Peter's vision of unclean meats and God's command "Acts 10:13 And a voice came to him, saying, Rise, Peter! Kill and eat! " - note that the Lord was talking about the Gentiles (not unclean meats) using an analogy and that Peter understood Him perfectly although he never did eat unclean things.

That's similar to giving permission to continue sinning. Paul answers the question, "Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Rom 6:2 Let it not be! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it??"

If that's what Jesus meant, he'd have to say it a whole lot clearer for me to believe it. Jesus was talking about something else entirely. I would admonish all to carefully read and prove what they are saying -- not only for their own sake, but also for the sake of those whom they teach for we know that even a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. What about a well with only a little poison? Is it clean to drink? Jas 3:12 "Can the fig tree, my brothers, bear olive berries; or a vine, figs? So no fountain can yield both salt water and fresh."

No, I'm not trying to put Jewish dietary law onto the Gentiles beyond what was taught by Paul (about things strangled and blood) but I must object when we try to make our doctrine equate to "eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die" - so I ask you, did Jesus really say that? Is that what he meant? Are you certain that he "clearly overturned Scripture"?

I would thank you for thinking about this prayerfully, Jesus taught against the "laying aside"

Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, Why do your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat loaves with unwashed hands?
Mar 7:6 But He answered and said to them, Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
Mar 7:7 However, they worship Me in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Mar 7:9 And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?

The Disciples asked him to explain the parable and he replied about "what defiles a man" (what is in his HEART)?. Jeremiah 4:3-4 For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, "Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns. Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."

~Sparrowhawke

 

[Drew]

Pardon my correcting you here but the part you bolded -AND- underlined cannot be found in the Greek at all.

Mark 7:19

• (LITV) This is because it does not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and goes out into the waste-bowl, purging all the foods.
  [/*:m:1azdgtas]
• (MKJV) because it does not enter into his heart, but into the belly, and goes out into the waste-bowl, purifying all food?[/*:m:1azdgtas]

So, what are the foods or "edibles", the βÃÂῶμα -or- (GK)brÃ…Âma that Jesus was talking about?

Again per John Gill: "purging all meats";
"that which it leaves behind [and doesn't go into the sewer] is pure and nourishing; and whatever is gross and impure, is carried with it into the draught, so that nothing remains in the man that is defiling."

I do not see how this argument works. And I do understand that the original Greek has the phrase "purging all foods". Texts such as this one from Leviticus 11 make it clear that the Jew under the Mosaic Law is not to eat certain foods:

The coney, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

Now clearly to go ahead and eat this foods would result in defilement or there is no point in prohibiting the eating of them. I find Gill’s statement to be very confusing. It seems like he (Gill) sees things as follows: when the Jew eats a “forbidden†item of food, only part of it is actually unclean and leaves the body, while another nourishing part of it is “clean†and therefore retained in the body. And the overall result is that the person remains undefiled by eating the item (because the bad part leaves the body).

Surely you see the problem with this. Such a view undercuts the necessity for an item to be forbidden in the first place. If a Jew eats, say, a pig, and the “bad†part of the pig goes into the sewer and the nourishing part remains in him, then the Jew is not defiled or made unclean by eating the pig – the net effect is that he stays clean after eating the pig. But this contradicts what the Levitical texts say.

Can you please clarify your position on what you think Mark 7:19 is saying.

 

[Drew]

Allow me to appeal to your reason; certainly Jesus did not declare live monkey brains "clean" yet some do eat thereof.

I do not think this is a valid argument. Clearly the context for the Levitical food laws is one where certain foods, otherwise acceptable to eat by Gentiles, are being forbidden for the Jew. So no one, least of all me, is saying that Jesus is saying that you can poisonous mushrooms, or monkey brains, or whatever.