Is the Soul Real? A Neurosurgeon Makes the Case [Sean McDowell Show]

"Soul", "living being" and "animation (of the body)" are the same concept in Gen. 2:7, it's not a separate entity distinct from the spirit and the body. If a soul is this ethereal being without a physical form, how was apostle John able to see them? In Jesus's parable of Lazarus and the rich man, how did the rich man even have a "tongue", as he begged father Abraham to dip water on his tongue? What's impossible is in your own argument.
John was "in the Spirit" and went through the dimensional portal into heaven, that is how he could see souls under the Altar in heaven:

1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. (Rev. 4:1-2 NKJ)

Their bodies were still in the grave, therefore souls are separate from physical bodies.

Jesus' prophetic parable---the Pharisees did not heed Lazarus risen from the dead, instead they conspired to kill him; uses figurative language, its not a physical tongue.

Baptist Theologian Gustav Oehler provides an excellent exposition of Genesis 2:7:

Body, Soul, Spirit

Man, like all beings endowed with life, originated from two elements,—namely, from earthly material (עָפָר, אֲדָמָה), and from the Divine Spirit (רוּחַ), Gen. 2:7, comp. Ps. 104:29 f., 146:4. As in general נֶפֶשׁ, soul, originates in the בָּשָׂר, the flesh, by the union of spirit with matter, so in particular the human soul arises in the human body by the breathing of the divine breath (נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים) into the material frame of the human body. But although the life-spring of the רוּחַ, from which the soul arises, is common to man and beast, both do not originate from it in the same way. The souls of animals arise, like plants from the earth, as a consequence of the divine word of power, Gen. 1:24 (תּוֹצֵא הָאָרֶץ נֶפֶשׁ). Thus the creating spirit which entered in the beginning, 1:2, into matter, rules in them; their connection with the divine spring of life is through the medium of the common terrestrial creation. But the human soul does not spring from the earth; it is created by a special act of divine inbreathing; see 2:7 in connection with 1:26. The human body was formed from the earth before the soul; in it, therefore, those powers operate which are inherent to matter apart from the soul (a proposition which is of great importance, as Delitzsch rightly remarks). But the human body is still not an animated body; the powers existing in the material frame are not yet comprehended into a unity of life; the breath of life is communicated to this frame directly from God, and so the living man originates. According to the view of many, the specific difference between the life of the human soul and that of animals is expressed by the use of the term נְשָׁמָה in 2:7 (2). This, however, cannot be established, for in 7:22 (“All in whose nostrils was the breath of life died”), the exclusive reference of the expression נְשָׁמָה to man (as merely another expression for כֹּל הָאָדָם, ver. 21), coming between the general terms comprehending man and beast, which stand both before and after it, is not natural. In Deut. 20:16, Josh. 10:40, 11:11–14, כָּל־נְשָׁמָה denotes only men; but in these passages the special reference of the expression is made clear by the connection,—in the passage in Deuteronomy by ver. 18, and in the book of Joshua because from 8:2 onward the cattle are excepted from the חֵרֶם. Otherwise one might as well prove from Josh. 11:11, where כָּל־הַנֶּפֶשׁ is used exclusively of man, that the human soul alone is called נֶפֶשׁ. But it is correct that in the other places in the Old Testament in which נְשָׁמָה occurs it is never expressly used of the mere animal principle of life; p 150 comp. Isa. 42:5, Prov. 20:27, Job 32:8, and Ps. 150:6 (כֹּל הַנְּשָׁמָה). Thus the substance of the human soul is the divine spirit of life uniting itself with matter; the spirit is not merely the cause by reason of which the נֶפֶש contained beforehand in the body becomes living, as Gen. 2:7 has by some been understood (3). For in the עָפָר as such, in the structure of dust, there is, according to the Old Testament, as yet no נֶפֶשׁ, even latently. This is first in the בָּשָׂר, in the flesh; but the earthly materials do not become flesh until the רוּחַ has become united with it, 6:17, 7:15, Job 12:10, 34:14 f.

Oehler, G. F., & Day, G. E. (1883). Theology of the Old Testament (pp. 149–152). Funk & Wagnalls.
 
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Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Let's let the word of God answer all our questions as we do not need a Neurosurgeon to define whether we have a soul or not.
"We don't need no stinking apologetics" - that is, if you don't believe that God uses it to overcome intellectual problems that people have that hinders them from hearing the gospel.
 

Many scientists and doctors believe that there is no such thing as the soul. Dr. Michael Egnor is a neurosurgeon presents the case that the brain alone does not explain the mind. Using modern neuroscience and his vast surgical experience, he believes there is a spiritual soul that transcends the brain, using fascinating case studies to prove his claim. Today, he's here to discuss his new book comes out June 3rd.

READ: The Immortal Mind: A Neurosurgeon’s Case for the Existence of the Soul Hardcover by Michael Egnor
(https://theimmortalmind.org/)

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In the video another surgeon is cited as proof of the soul's existence because he has electrically stimulated various parts of the brain over a million times, but it never caused abstract thought or "the person himself" to appear, only bodily movements and chemically produced emotions.
I'm skeptical about how he loosely uses the term "soul" to include even plants. I think that it's semantics with "life," because plants don't think, unless you believe in the urban legend that plants can be happy or sad, based on how you treat them. Plants have life until they die, as do animals. Animals have "free will" in that they can make free choices. If a worm chooses to crawl on a sidewalk, it dies quickly, and was a bad choice for it. If a squirrel chooses to run across the road in front of a moving vehicle, it could prove a bad choice for it. The point is, animals make free-will choices all the time.

He equated soul with spirit, so I think there is still something unclear in his mind about any distinction between soul, spirit, and life of a person, because he also used "soul" that is equated with a person's "life" - animation and self-expression. However, he does clearly make the distinction between the functions of the brain and functions of the soul that transcend the brain. This is the enlightening part of the discussion.

This discussion was encouraging for me, because for some years I believed the theory that consciousness and memory was attached (or in) the spirit and not the brain, and the brain is simply an organ of the body that channels thought into actions and emotions. Since the brain is the center of the 5 senses, it appears so, and the fact that his research shows that abstract thought is not a brain function confirms my theory. Scripture says to be out of the body is to be with Christ, so that has to mean the consciousness and memory is embedded in the spirit, with the will, abstract thought, etc.
 
"We don't need no stinking apologetics" - that is, if you don't believe that God uses it to overcome intellectual problems that people have that hinders them from hearing the gospel.
That's the whole problem is that many have rejected the word of God as they have conformed to this world and it's worldly ways.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 
John was "in the Spirit" and went through the dimensional portal into heaven, that is how he could see souls under the Altar in heaven:

1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. (Rev. 4:1-2 NKJ)


Their bodies were still in the grave, therefore souls are separate from physical bodies.
That's gnostic philosophy, that the physical body is a prison of the everlasting soul. That's totally unbiblical. What's separate from the dead body is the SPIRIT, and when the spirit is left, the soul, i.e. LIVING BEING ceases to be living.

"when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last. (Lk. 23:46)
Their bodies were still in the grave, therefore souls are separate from physical bodies.

Jesus' prophetic parable---the Pharisees did not heed Lazarus risen from the dead, instead they conspired to kill him; uses figurative language, its not a physical tongue.
That's not the same Lazarus, I was talking about the beggar.
Baptist Theologian Gustav Oehler provides an excellent exposition of Genesis 2:7:

Body, Soul, Spirit
Body + Spirit = Soul, that's the message of Gen. 2:7.
 
That's gnostic philosophy, that the physical body is a prison of the everlasting soul. That's totally unbiblical. What's separate from the dead body is the SPIRIT, and when the spirit is left, the soul, i.e. LIVING BEING ceases to be living.

"when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ” Having said this, He breathed His last. (Lk. 23:46)

That's not the same Lazarus, I was talking about the beggar.

Body + Spirit = Soul, that's the message of Gen. 2:7.
I didn't say anything gnostic. You confuse me with someone else.

Everything I say is "biblical", I cited the texts supporting it, which you ignored by the way.

The immaterial substance of the Soul was created by the Spirit when God breathed into the man, and he became "a living soul". The Spirit also animates the physical body like electricity does a light bulb, but that is "living energy, life force" and not the person themself, their consciousness.

This is the only parable where a person's name appears (Lazarus), which proves it is unlike all the other parables. I call it a "prophetic parable" but feel free to give it any name you like:

The Rich Man represented the Pharisees who mocked Jesus when He told them they can't serve God and Money (Mammon). He also told them the Law was until John, since then the people the Pharisees despised were vigorously entering the Kingdom by believing in Him. That God would divorce all who commit adultery with Mammon. Their demand for more signs from Jesus was a ruse, they wouldn't believe Christ is the Messiah even after He raised Lazarus up from the dead. They would die unsaved and end up in Hades until the resurrection.

13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."
14 Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 "But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 "desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "Then he cried and said,`Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 "But Abraham said,`Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
27 "Then he said,`I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house,
28 `for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
29 "Abraham said to him,`They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'
30 "And he said,`No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 "But he said to him,`If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'" (Lk. 16:13-31 NKJ)

9 Now a great many of the Jews knew that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He had raised from the dead.
10 But the chief priests plotted to put Lazarus to death also,

11 because on account of him many of the Jews went away and believed in Jesus. (Jn. 12:9-11 NKJ)

Jesus' parable prophecy warned the Pharisees, 'contrary to your tradition that Abraham will stop you from entering Hades, Abraham will be in paradise with those you despise as forsaken by God like Lazarus':

The Pharisees believed:
'In the Hereafter Abraham will sit at the entrance of Gehinnom and will not allow any circumcised Israelite to descend into it.-Abraham Cohen, Everyman's Talmud, (Schocken Books, NY, 1995), pp. 381.
 
I'm skeptical about how he loosely uses the term "soul" to include even plants. I think that it's semantics with "life," because plants don't think, unless you believe in the urban legend that plants can be happy or sad, based on how you treat them. Plants have life until they die, as do animals. Animals have "free will" in that they can make free choices. If a worm chooses to crawl on a sidewalk, it dies quickly, and was a bad choice for it. If a squirrel chooses to run across the road in front of a moving vehicle, it could prove a bad choice for it. The point is, animals make free-will choices all the time.

He equated soul with spirit, so I think there is still something unclear in his mind about any distinction between soul, spirit, and life of a person, because he also used "soul" that is equated with a person's "life" - animation and self-expression. However, he does clearly make the distinction between the functions of the brain and functions of the soul that transcend the brain. This is the enlightening part of the discussion.

This discussion was encouraging for me, because for some years I believed the theory that consciousness and memory was attached (or in) the spirit and not the brain, and the brain is simply an organ of the body that channels thought into actions and emotions. Since the brain is the center of the 5 senses, it appears so, and the fact that his research shows that abstract thought is not a brain function confirms my theory. Scripture says to be out of the body is to be with Christ, so that has to mean the consciousness and memory is embedded in the spirit, with the will, abstract thought, etc.
Consistent with soul being the person himself (or animal), was the restoration of brain circulation and cell function in the brains of decapitated pigs. When they were 'reanimated' they were "soulless" having none of the personality of pigs, so the researchers reached what is for the materialist, a contradictory conclusion. "Although active, the brains were not alive". In other words, they didn't act like pigs.

The pig study begins at Frame 15:33

 
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That's the whole problem is that many have rejected the word of God as they have conformed to this world and it's worldly ways.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
So you think apologetics is "worldly ways"?
 
Consistent with soul being the person himself (or animal), was the restoration of brain circulation and cell function in the brains of decapitated pigs. When they were 'reanimated' they were "soulless" having none of the personality of pigs, so the researchers reached what is for the materialist, a contradictory conclusion. "Although active, the brains were not alive". In other words, they didn't act like pigs.

The pig study begins at Frame 15:33

I didn't hear any explanation of anything in the pig experiment except for this:
1. The brain functions were restored - but they didn't say how they knew this, whether MRI or other means
2. The pig wasn't conscious - they didn't say how they knew this.

They only know that people sometimes come back after brain death. There is no evidence that they can artificially restore brain function and cause people to come back that way.

I didn't watch the whole video, so I'm only responding to what I heard in it.
 
I didn't hear any explanation of anything in the pig experiment except for this:
1. The brain functions were restored - but they didn't say how they knew this, whether MRI or other means
2. The pig wasn't conscious - they didn't say how they knew this.

They only know that people sometimes come back after brain death. There is no evidence that they can artificially restore brain function and cause people to come back that way.

I didn't watch the whole video, so I'm only responding to what I heard in it.
Watch that again, it was in the print that flashed on the screen. Its not a Christian video, some university but the results were consistent with the Bible revelation about soul. Of course, they didn't realize that. They are materialists and considered the results a contradiction. If the brain is active, to them the person should be alive. We know the soul leaves the body after death, reanimating the brain then results in a "energized computer doing nothing because it has no program directing it." That's what a brain is without the soul in it, without the person.
 
I didn't say anything gnostic. You confuse me with someone else.

Everything I say is "biblical", I cited the texts supporting it, which you ignored by the way.

The immaterial substance of the Soul was created by the Spirit when God breathed into the man, and he became "a living soul". The Spirit also animates the physical body like electricity does a light bulb, but that is "living energy, life force" and not the person themself, their consciousness.
"Consciousness" is the result of that animation, a vital sign of life, that's not a separate entity, the animated man is still the same man. As long as you view soul as an immaterial, separate entity, it's unbiblical. When they two witnesses are resurrected, God does not breath their "consciousness" into their dead bodies, but the same breath of life.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. (Rev. 11:11)
 
So you think apologetics is "worldly ways"?
I never said that, but brought to the plate how so many in this word have chosen to reject God and His Son Christ Jesus. They who reject are those who souls are damned to the lake of fire as they are none of Christ own.

Apologetic is the reasoned defense of a belief system, particularly Christianity, against objections and criticisms.
 
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"Consciousness" is the result of that animation, a vital sign of life, that's not a separate entity, the animated man is still the same man. As long as you view soul as an immaterial, separate entity, it's unbiblical. When they two witnesses are resurrected, God does not breath their "consciousness" into their dead bodies, but the same breath of life.

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7)

Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. (Rev. 11:11)
Scripture clearly rejects materialism, the brain is not the soul:

Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people. (Gen. 25:8 NKJ)

"So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. (Lk. 16:22 NKJ)

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. (Rev. 6:9 NKJ)

For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. (Phil. 1:23 NKJ)


Science has confirmed a person can lose half of their brain and yet remain the same person they were, with no loss of IQ, as the Doctor reports to Sean McDowell.

There have been rare cases of children born with severe brain abnormalities who defied medical expectations. One well-known case is Noah Wall, a boy from the U.K. who was born with only 2% of his brain due to spina bifida and hydrocephalus. Doctors predicted he would be severely disabled, but over time, his brain expanded to 80% of normal function, allowing him to talk, write, and interact with others.

Another case involves Jaxon Buell, who was born with microhydranencephaly, a condition that left him missing 80% of his brain. Despite this, he lived for five years, showing signs of awareness and interaction with his family2.

These cases challenge traditional medical understanding of brain function and development, showing the remarkable adaptability of the human body.-Copilot


The ability to function as a person is impossible according to materialistic views where the soul is nothing more than a function of the animated body, as you believe.

Genesis 2:7 does not imply a materialist view, its a statement of fact about the whole man, body and soul. Neither is Revelation 11:11 pertinent to the question of body vis a vis soul.
 
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