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Bible Study Is there a difference

Corn Pop

Corn Pop

Member
Between the Laws of Moses and the Commandments of God?

Is the Laws of Moses also called the commandments of God in scripture, and can the commandments of God in scripture also be refering to the Laws of Moses?
 
Rom 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
I think the laws and Ten Commandments far under one umbrella. i also think we do not follow
them as did the Jew. that said the NT has listed almost the exact laws for New covenant followers.
 
Roro1972 said:
Rom 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
I think the laws and Ten Commandments far under one umbrella. i also think we do not follow
them as did the Jew. that said the NT has listed almost the exact laws for New covenant followers.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about the over 600 laws of the OT, no, the NT has not listed anywhere near these exact laws for Christians to follow. If you are only talking about the 10 commandments, then yeah, Jesus told us His command to us was to love others as he loved us in John 15:12. If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will not be doing the things against them that are prohibited in the 10 commandments.
 
Obadiah said:
If you are talking about the over 600 laws of the OT, no, the NT has not listed anywhere near these exact laws for Christians to follow. If you are only talking about the 10 commandments, then yeah, Jesus told us His command to us was to love others as he loved us in John 15:12. If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will not be doing the things against them that are prohibited in the 10 commandments.
Click to expand...

If the love God and others fullfill the commandments, where does holding the sabbath as 1 of the 10 fit into this?.

If I love God and others, how does that fullfill keeping the sabbath.
 
Obadiah said:
If you are talking about the over 600 laws of the OT, no, the NT has not listed anywhere near these exact laws for Christians to follow. If you are only talking about the 10 commandments, then yeah, Jesus told us His command to us was to love others as he loved us in John 15:12. If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will not be doing the things against them that are prohibited in the 10 commandments.
Click to expand...

Sorry Obadiah, I was not clear. I do not feel we are under any OT laws including the Ten; ( Eph 2:15 )I feel the Ten Comandments and the 613 laws was of the old covenant; I feel The NT shows the New Covenant we are under now.
You are right I meant the commandments.
Here is what I was referring to.
Rom 13
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
Keeping the sabbath, and the meaning of the sabbath must mean loving your neighbour then.

I dont see any connection between God resting, and not doing work on sabbath, to loving your neighbour.

Oh yea, Christ lay down his life for all, that is loving thy neighbour, and it is finished, is the rest of sabbath.
 
kiwidan said:
If the love God and others fullfill the commandments, where does holding the sabbath as 1 of the 10 fit into this?.

If I love God and others, how does that fullfill keeping the sabbath.
Click to expand...
I said (as you quoted) "If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will not be doing the things against them that are prohibited in the 10 commandments." The "against them" part is referring to against other people so I thought it was obvious I was talking about the commandments that address how we relate with other people. "Honoring the sabbath to keep it holy" is not about relating to other people. Please, lets not turn this into another thread of reading things into what people said that aren't there just for the sake of argument.

As for the sabbath, I do not believe that as Christians we are required to keep the sabbath in the way the OT Jews did. The early church under the direct leadership of the apostles certainly didn't, and neither are we required to. The only NT instructions we have that come close is Heb 10:25a "And let us not neglect our meeting together..." (NLT), but this is a far cry from the highly regulated sabbath of the Jews in the OT.

So then, since you started this thread, when you say we are talking about the Laws of Moses and the Commandments of God, are you saying we are only talking about the 10 commandments or are we talking about all 600+ laws of the OT? Just wanted some clarifiction on this so we know where to focus our conversations in this thread.
 
Obadiah said:
I said (as you quoted) "If we love others as Jesus loves us, we will not be doing the things against them that are prohibited in the 10 commandments." The "against them" part is referring to against other people so I thought it was obvious I was talking about the commandments that address how we relate with other people. "Honoring the sabbath to keep it holy" is not about relating to other people. Please, lets not turn this into another thread of reading things into what people said that aren't there just for the sake of argument.

As for the sabbath, I do not believe that as Christians we are required to keep the sabbath in the way the OT Jews did. The early church under the direct leadership of the apostles certainly didn't, and neither are we required to. The only NT instructions we have that come close is Heb 10:25a "And let us not neglect our meeting together..." (NLT), but this is a far cry from the highly regulated sabbath of the Jews in the OT.

So then, since you started this thread, when you say we are talking about the Laws of Moses and the Commandments of God, are you saying we are only talking about the 10 commandments or are we talking about all 600+ laws of the OT? Just wanted some clarifiction on this so we know where to focus our conversations in this thread.
Click to expand...

The Apostles did not keep the sabbath?, do you seriously think the apostles did not hold the law? . Paul says he kept the law and never preached against it, remember when he was taking to trial.
 
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Roro1972 said:
Sorry Obadiah, I was not clear. I do not feel we are under any OT laws including the Ten; ( Eph 2:15 )I feel the Ten Comandments and the 613 laws was of the old covenant; I feel The NT shows the New Covenant we are under now.
You are right I meant the commandments.
Here is what I was referring to.
Rom 13
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks, now I understand what you meant. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about too. If we follow the commandment that Jesus gave to NT Christians (to love others), we will by default not steal their spouses, not steal their property, not lie to them, etc.etc.etc. You just don't do these things to people you love! But other things like not eating pork, etc have nothing to do with loving your neighbor so therefor do not apply to Christians living under the commands of Jesus.
 
kiwidan said:
The Apostles did not keep the sabbath?, do you seriously think the apostles did not hold the law? . Paul says he kept the law and never preached against it, remember when he was taking to trial.
Click to expand...
kiwidan said:
The Apostles did not keep the sabbath?, do you seriously think the apostles did not hold the law of Moses?
Click to expand...
I said "I do not believe that as Christians we are required to keep the sabbath in the way the OT Jews did. The early church under the direct leadership of the apostles certainly didn't, and neither are we required to." The subject was the sabbath, not the entire "law of Moses", whatever you mean by that. This is proven in early church history and is not even a question. As for whether or not the apostles held to the "law of Moses" I can't tell you what I think on that until you tell me what you consider to be the "law of Moses". I've asked you this more than once now and you have not answered, so neither can I answer your question.

Seriously, I feel that instead of looking for a genuine discussion, you are twisting my words around to create an argument. If this keeps happening I won't respond to you anymore. This is a "Bible Study" forum, not an "argue with each other" forum. Yet you as the Original Poster have not given us any Bible scripture to actually study. Perhaps some solid scripture would help. That means actual chapter and verse, not just a vague "Paul said..." or "The Bible says..." It would help if we knew exactly which scriptures you have in mind to study here.
 
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kiwidan said:
So God,gave 10 commandments and another 600 laws through Moses for the jews to obey right?, so they are what I mean by the laws of moses, all the rules God gave, one being do not do any work and rest on the sabbath, one day a week.

Are we on the same page here?

The Apostle Paul, as a early Church Apostle held the law, that would have included sabbath, but you say early church apostles did not.

And when Paul was accused, he said he not violate the laws or preach against it.

Unless you use the accusation of the diciples with Jesus picking heads of corn or whatever on sabbath as reason.
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kiwidan said:
So God,gave 10 commandments and another 600 laws through Moses for the jews to obey right?, so they are what I mean by the laws of moses, all the rules God gave, one being do not do any work and rest on the sabbath, one day a week.

Are we on the same page here?
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, now that you answered that I understand what you mean. Thank you.


kiwidan said:
The Apostle Paul, as a early Church Apostle held the law, that would have included sabbath, but you say early church apostles did not.

And when Paul was accused, he said he not violate the laws or preach against it.
Click to expand...
I said the early church under the leadership of the apostles did not. That is a difference. The apostles may or may not have followed the entire 600+ laws of Moses as a personal thing, much like many Messianic Jews of today try to do. But they certainly did not require the early church to follow the particular commandment about the sabbath in the way the jews did. The Jewish law was very strict about the timing of the sabbath, just for one example. Yet the early church ignored this. Speaking of the early church, we are told in Acts 20:7a ESV: "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them..." The first day of the week is not the 7th day of the week. There is no question about this. Yet the Jews were very strict about the sabbath being on the 7th day, and only on the 7th day, right down to the exact time that it started and ended. Clearly the early church did not follow the Jewish sabbath since they were meeting on the first day of the week and there is no record of them having any strict rules concerning a 7th day sabbath and what was prohibited or required on the 7th day of the week. And clearly Paul never condemned them for this. If Paul himself chose to follow it, that is fine, but he never instructed the early church that they had to do the same when he saw that they weren't doing it. Therefore the early church did not follow the Jewish laws of the sabbath and the apostles (including Paul) were well aware of this and never told them they were wrong. Therefore I do not believe Christians of today are required to follow the Jewish sabbath.


kiwidan said:
Unless you use the accusation of the diciples with Jesus picking heads of corn or whatever on sabbath as reason.
Click to expand...
Would there be something wrong with that? It is in Mark 2:23-28. Jesus was violating one of the 600+ Jewish laws in what he did, and he said in response to their criticism; "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27-28 ESV) Why would I discount Jesus words as unimportant or irrelevant?
 
Kiwidan, I see once again you have resorted to your unfair and disingenuous tactic of posting something and then deleting it after someone responds to you. This abuse of the delete feature which this forum has allowed you to have is a disgusting and disingenuous tactic, and is the reason I always make sure to quote whatever you said in my posts so that you can not make me into a fool by your constant habit of deleting all of your posts. You have now proven that you have no intent of having a genuine Bible study here, so I'm through with this.
 
Obadiah said:
Kiwidan, I see once again you have resorted to your unfair and disingenuous tactic of posting something and then deleting it after someone responds to you. This abuse of the delete feature which this forum has allowed you to have is a disgusting and disingenuous tactic, and is the reason I always make sure to quote whatever you said in my posts so that you can not make me into a fool by your constant habit of deleting all of your posts. You have now proven that you have no intent of having a genuine Bible study here, so I'm through with this.
Click to expand...

I deleted it before you posted a reply as I could not be bothered trying to explain myself and debate over scripture as you said you thought I was trying to make an argument.

I deleted after I posted as I thought it may carry on in confusing.

Please dont say its,disgusting because I was trying to end a confusing argument, and now,you just starred it again by saying its,disgusting I deleted.
 
kiwidan said:
I deleted it before you posted a reply as I could not be bothered trying to explain myself and debate over scripture as you said you thought I was trying to make an argument.

I deleted after I posted as I thought it may carry on in confusing.

Please dont say its,disgusting because I was trying to end a confusing argument, and now,you just starred it again by saying its,disgusting I deleted.
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Very well, do I have your permission to re-instate the post you deleted. Are you aware you are the only one on this forum who constantly does this?

Edit: Never mind. I just looked and I don't have the authority to re-instate it since I am not assigned as a moderator in this forum.
 
After I posted I realised it may not be getting anywhere and may just continue confusion and pointless talk, so I deleted it before I had even realised you had seen or read it. Im sorry for being disgusting, may God forgive me.
 
Obadiah said:
Very well, do I have your permission to re-instate the post you deleted. Are you aware you are the only one on this forum who constantly does this?

Edit: Never mind. I just looked and I don't have the authority to re-instate it since I am not assigned as a moderator in this forum.
Click to expand...

If I ever delete a post you or anyone else have answered or replied to, I give full permission to re-instate it. I dont want people offended or it to look like they talking to themselves.

You can reinstate my last post.
 
Paul said in Rom 7
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
He was aware he was not under the law, how ever he may have kept laws while visiting Jews to teach them this verse.
 
Is it important to know the difference between the Spirit of the Law and the Letter of the Law?

Jesus said He didn't come to ABOLISH the Law but to fulfill it. So we have to understand what that means.
Much could be said here re this question.
Are we not to keep the Laws? May it never be!
So then, why aren't we under the Law?

Could we speak to this?
Maybe we could get into HOW Jesus fulfilled the Law.

And yes, the O.T. had 613 laws to be exact. Jesus left us with two (some count it as just one).
If you follow Jesus' two laws, you will automatically follow the other 8 of the decalogue. I used to like to tell my kids (students) this and a light would always go off in some. It was nice to see.

Also, I'd say that, yes, there was a difference between the laws of Moses and the Commandments of God.
The Commandments of God were the 10 commandments.
The laws of Moses were all those other man-made laws that had to be followed in the 613.
Now we say the bible is God inspired. Inspired. Not written.
So I can't believe God directly gave man all those extra laws. It was a way of creating order and trying to get a civilization in order.

The direct commandments of God MUST be followed. If you never wash your hands, civilziation will continue. But if you steal, murder, don't honor your parents - eventually civilization will crumble.

My thoughts.

Wondering
 
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