Is there a middle ground between Arminianism and Calvinism?

[Heidi]

Here's Arminians:

Boy, God is pretty lucky to have someone like me around. I chose to believe and respond to God and those other poor slobs who didn't aren't as good as me. But that's their tough luck. We're all born the same but some people simply make the right choices and others don't. God has nothing to do with that. It's simply me who is good.

I can tell God what to do. If he draws me, I can tell him to get lost. But I don't because I'm smart. :wink3 So if people would make the choices I do, they'd be a whole lot better off.

Here's Calvinism:

I was lost and God found me. I didn't know that he had been there all the time. If it weren't for God, I'd still be lost. He chose me before the creation of the world. Why me? I didn't do anything good to deserve it. All I've done is resist him, curse him, and deny Him. So I don't deserve his love. That shows me that he only did it by his mercy, not my merit.

He has completely changed my life even when I wanted to resist him at times. He led me out of temptation and delivered me from evil. The Holy Spirit leads me to pray for what God wants me to pray for. And I'm so happy because God tells me that he will keep me strong and protect me from the evil one. So my hope is in Him, not in me. I'm grateful for that because if my hope were in me, I'd still be lost.

The former is self-righteousness which is the yeast of the Pharisees, the latter is humility which comes from the Spirit of God. There is no middle ground between them because the 2 oppose each other; the first comes from the pride of Satan, the latter comes from the humility of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Adullam]

You show your lack of understanding of basic righteousness here. God doesn't force us to do what is right...He enables us. You are simply seeking to be irresponsible for your own actions. We call this tendency...immaturity.

Then you're calling Jesus immature because he gives complete credit to God for everything he does.

Jesus didn't choose to be conceived by the Holy Spirit. God elected him to do so. Jesus also knows God's power and you don't. We call self-righteousness the yeast of the Pharisees. ;) I have no choice but to acknowledge my sins. But I can only do it once Jesus has opened my eyes. So I have a question for you:

If someone knocks you over the head and heals you of blindness, adn you open your eyes (which is involuntary) then why do you want to take credit for what your healer does? :o

That's what happened to Paul. Paul didn't seek God, God sought him and opened his eyes. Nowhere does Paul say he freely chose to believe by his own free will. that comes from the sinful nature of man. So your beliefs are not scriptural which is why you rarely if ever quote scripture. My beliefs come from scripture as I have demonstrated over and over again.

You are so very wrong in your ranting. Heidi aka Jesus!??? How deep is the delusion? You are wielding the verses, not Jesus. The devil wields verses too! An unbalanced view such as yours only serves the devil. Anyone can cherry pick certain verses.....that is the devil's way.

Jesus chose to obey! He obeyed the will of the Father. It is the same with us who follow Him.

Your scheme eliminates obedience....this is very convenient. What does one call a person who teaches against obedience? Your viewpoint is lawlessness in a silver lining.

Your superior attitude neglects the fact that we Christians worship an all-powerful God. A God who limits Himself to what we will allow Him to do. God is gentle (read the fruit of the Spirit). A covenant is a partnership. In your view, God is like a caveman who finds a woman, hits her on the head and drags her by the hair back to his cave. Being a woman, how can you have such an ugly view of God?

 

[Heidi]

You haven't quoted scripture. So your beliefs don't come from God, but your sinful nature. That's why all you can do is personally attack instead of quote scripture. So your posts are NWR because nothing you say can change one word that God wrote.

 

[Adullam]

You haven't quoted scripture. So your beliefs don't come from God, but your sinful nature. That's why all you can do is personally attack instead of quote scripture. So your posts are NWR because nothing you say can change one word that God wrote.

I'm not trying to change the words that God wrote. You don't understand them correctly and have been indoctrinated...why would I offer what amounts to alcohol to an obvious alcoholic of doctrinal superiority such as yourself?

If you are truly a sister in Christ, I appeal to you. Who has turned you into a judgmental, superior person? You are not more special to God because you take an unbalanced approach that you believe is superior. There are no ubermenschen in the Body of Christ. No one can exalt themselves by claiming to exalt God better than others! This is the sin of pride. Better to not know God than do this!

 

[Heidi]

You haven't quoted scripture. So your beliefs don't come from God, but your sinful nature. That's why all you can do is personally attack instead of quote scripture. So your posts are NWR because nothing you say can change one word that God wrote.

I'm not trying to change the words that God wrote. You don't understand them correctly and have been indoctrinated...why would I offer what amounts to alcohol to an obvious alcoholic of doctrinal superiority such as yourself?

If you are truly a sister in Christ, I appeal to you. Who has turned you into a judgmental, superior person? You are not more special to God because you take an unbalanced approach that you believe is superior. There are no ubermenschen in the Body of Christ. No one can exalt themselves by claiming to exalt God better than others! This is the sin of pride. Better to not know God than do this!

Well let's see, which words in this phrase, "I know O Lord that a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps" do you not understand? The word "not"? If so, then have a dictionary handy whenever you read the bible because I know those words as well as I did in elementary school. ;) You simply don't believe them and I do. If you can't understand those simple words then you certainly can't understand the rest of the bible!

 

[Heidi]

No one can exalt themselves by claiming to exalt God better than others!

Sounds like jealousy to me. You claim that you know the bible better than I do. So you are accusing me of the very thing that you do. ;)Yet you don't quote scripture like I do because your beliefs don't come from scripture. So they don't threaten me in the least. ;)

All of us can know God is we simply believe his simple words. But unfortunately, most people don't.

I do and it's not because I'm smart, it's because of God's Spirit in me. So if you understood that only God is good then you wouldn't attack others for believing God because faith doesn't come from ourselves, but from God alone. So I can't take credit for my faith. That's why it's so important to understand God's sovereignty so you'll know that our struggle is not against flesh and blood. But I truly doubt that you believe that verse either.

 

[Adullam]

You haven't quoted scripture. So your beliefs don't come from God, but your sinful nature. That's why all you can do is personally attack instead of quote scripture. So your posts are NWR because nothing you say can change one word that God wrote.

I'm not trying to change the words that God wrote. You don't understand them correctly and have been indoctrinated...why would I offer what amounts to alcohol to an obvious alcoholic of doctrinal superiority such as yourself?

If you are truly a sister in Christ, I appeal to you. Who has turned you into a judgmental, superior person? You are not more special to God because you take an unbalanced approach that you believe is superior. There are no ubermenschen in the Body of Christ. No one can exalt themselves by claiming to exalt God better than others! This is the sin of pride. Better to not know God than do this!

Well let's see, which words in this phrase, "I know O Lord that a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps" do you not understand? The word "not"? If so, then have a dictionary handy whenever you read the bible because I know those words as well as I did in elementary school. ;) You simply don't believe them and I do. If you can't understand those simple words then you certainly can't understand the rest of the bible!

So it is God committing horrible sins through us?

 

[Heidi]

God has complete control over Satan, in fact, he created Satan: Isaiah 54;16, "For I the Lord have created the destroyer to work havoc..."

Here's why:Romans 11:32,

"For God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all."

But I can see that you don't read the bible which is why your beliefs come from your sinful nature rather than the word of God. So you don't know who God is what he's doing in the world or his awesome power. You simply pay him lip service.

 

[Adullam]

No one can exalt themselves by claiming to exalt God better than others!

Sounds like jealousy to me. You claim that you know the bible better than I do! So you are accusing me of the very thing that you do. ;) But your beliefs don't threaten me because they don't come from scripture, but from your sinful nature. ;)

All of us can know God is we simply believe his simple words. But unfortunately, most people don't.

I do and it's not because I'm smart, it's because of God's Spirit in me. So if you understood that only God is good then you wouldn't attack others for believing God because faith doesn't come from ourselves, but from God alone. So I can't take credit for my faith. That's why it's so important to understand God's sovereignty so you'll know that our struggle is not against flesh and blood. But I truly doubt that you believe that verse either.

I am not teaching self-exultation through bible rhetoric. I'm trying to show you what balance is. A balanced view has humillity in it. You believe your absolutism makes you absolute as well. This is a rabbit trail that you have fallen for. God is absolute, but men and women aren't. You have been taken in by the snare of human pride and aggrandizement. This is not the purpose of the gospel.

Will we be judged by our obedience? A Calvanist doesn't lift a finger to obey. Let God do it...I can't be bothered. Heartless rhetoric maquerading as doctrinal superiority. It's the "let them eat cake" angle of Christendom.

Can a Calvanist be saved?

 

[Adullam]

God has complete control over Satan, in fact, he created Satan: Isaiah 54;16, "For I the Lord have created the destroyer to work havoc..."

Here's why:Romans 11:32,

"For God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all."

But I can see that you don't read the bible which is why your beliefs come from your sinful nature rather than the word of God. So you don't know who God is what he's doing in the world or his awesome power. You simply pay him lip service.

Lip service is what you think justifies you...I preach obedience, remember. You are projecting your salvation through theory on me.

 

[Heidi]

I am not teaching self-exultation through bible rhetoric. I'm trying to show you what balance is. A balanced view has humillity in it. You believe your absolutism makes you absolute as well. This is a rabbit trail that you have fallen for. God is absolute, but men and women aren't. You have been taken in by the snare of human pride and aggrandizement. This is not the purpose of the gospel.

Will we be judged by our obedience? A Calvanist doesn't lift a finger to obey. Let God do it...I can't be bothered. Heartless rhetoric maquerading as doctrinal superiority. It's the "let them eat cake" angle of Christendom.

"For it is the Father living in me that is doing the work."

I'm sorry that you don't believe Jesus but instead have such contempt for his words, so your eternal fate won't be a pretty one. But that's your problem, not mine.

My obedience comes from the love that God gave me and the Spirit of God inside me. Your "obedience comes from your own pride and self-righteousness which is the yeast of the Phrarisees. So you will oppose me like the Pharisees oppose Jesus. Thus further conversation between us will not be productive.

 

[Adullam]

I am not teaching self-exultation through bible rhetoric. I'm trying to show you what balance is. A balanced view has humillity in it. You believe your absolutism makes you absolute as well. This is a rabbit trail that you have fallen for. God is absolute, but men and women aren't. You have been taken in by the snare of human pride and aggrandizement. This is not the purpose of the gospel.

Will we be judged by our obedience? A Calvanist doesn't lift a finger to obey. Let God do it...I can't be bothered. Heartless rhetoric maquerading as doctrinal superiority. It's the "let them eat cake" angle of Christendom.

"For it is the Father living in me that is doing the work."

I'm sorry that you don't believe Jesus but instead have such contempt for his words, so your eternal fate won't be a pretty one. But that's your problem, not mine.

My obedience comes from the love that God gave me and the Spirit of God inside me. Your "obedience comes from your own pride and self-righteousness which is the yeast of the Phrarisees. So you will oppose me like the Pharisees oppose Jesus. Thus further conversation between us will not be productive.

Is it God that is sinning through you?

 

[whirlwind]

I'm sorry that you don't believe Jesus but instead have such contempt for his words, so your eternal fate won't be a pretty one. But that's your problem, not mine.

Your words show that you have little discernment in recognizing a son of God. Along with what appears to be a lack of spiritual discernment you have a tendency to judge others. :naughty Along with that, what you consider the problem of others could well be yours....

• Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, And an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[Adullam]

God works in different ways with different people. God may choose to work directly or indirectly. Those who have experienced only direct contact with God tend to espouse a Calvanistic viewpoint, at least at first. (Of course most Calvanists are taught to be so and have not really had a direct personal encounter with God.) If a person remains a Calvanist for any length of time, that one remains at an infant stage and loses all vitality. Those who have never known the Lord in reality and remain Calvanists have really nothing to lose anyway.

Those who have become sensitive to God's workings in indirect ways, tend to be more Armenian in their viwpoint as their faith is inspired by seeing God act in a situation (but outside themselves). This faith could be brought about through an answered prayer, a series of events, or the testimony of a disciple. etc...

Of course there are exceptions as these are just general tendencies.

The lesson here is to be open to God whether directly or indirectly. Ironically, Calvanists limit the all-powerful God to only acting directly in a person's life. They miss anything that isn't right in front of them. They are never able to discern what God is doing if they are not directly involved. So they condemn. This is very immature and short-sighted.

Now Armenians tend to see God from a distance very well...but will they seek and ask and knock for the intimacy that God intends for those who love Him?

So the answer is both and neither. We need to continue to grow and look both to God and the brethren for continued growth in the faith. Others are not there to argue with, but to learn from. He gives different experiences to different people so that we can help one another. The gifts have been distributed in the Body for all to benefit. God has done this on purpose so that we might learn His ways.