Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Is there a true hell, or has scripture been manipulated?

Benoni said:
The reason there is no etenal punishment is because God has a plan for his lost which I doubt you know anything about because you are too busy condmning billions of God' s people he made in His image.

Here are a few verses for you to spin:
I would love to go through these verses with you tomorrow one by one. It's late here and I need to get up early.I would also like to hear your justification, which I don't believe you have given yet, why you feel that God would have used the SAME word for punishment and reward but you think He meant 2 DIFFERENT things. Talk to you tomorrow P.M.
Westtexas
 
God does not need to justify anything. He is just. That is the big problem with eternal damnation. The Jesus I know is a savior not a monster.

See you tommorow.


westtexas said:
Benoni said:
The reason there is no etenal punishment is because God has a plan for his lost which I doubt you know anything about because you are too busy condmning billions of God' s people he made in His image.

Here are a few verses for you to spin:
I would love to go through these verses with you tomorrow one by one. It's late here and I need to get up early.I would also like to hear your justification, which I don't believe you have given yet, why you feel that God would have used the SAME word for punishment and reward but you think He meant 2 DIFFERENT things. Talk to you tomorrow P.M.
Westtexas
 
Here is one more verse for discussion, it is my favorite.

What is the Tabernacle of David?

I will be home later this evening.

Acts 15:16-18

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue (remainder) of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the wor
KJV
 
Mt Zion is a stumblingstone and rock of offence to those who approach God’s Word with religious bias eyes. Mt Zion is where the Tabernacle of David was brought. Give you a bit of hint. Got to go.

1 Peter 2
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Romans 9
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)
 
ForeverTrue said:
While studying, my husband and I came across several instances where words had been replaced with hell. For example, Gehenna (Gehenna meant a place of burning, a valley where rebellious Jews had been slaughtered before and would be again if they didn't repent, as Malachi, John the Baptist, and Jesus urged them to do), Topheth, Hades.

Hell has replaced Gehenna:
You should note that Orthodox Jews have never believed in a Hell, and that the concept is foreign to the Old Testament. Since the days of Yahshua, Christianity has been combating Paganism and Gnosticism. Hell and Hades are part of the Pagan religion. The word "fire" in scripture is often parabolic for "judgement." The "eternal fire" is not a literal fire that burns forever, but it is a judgement for all eternity. What happens in the final judgement is that Yahwah takes away the life of the condemned, and they no longer exist.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
 
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

No one is treating the righteous and the wicked alike; there are stages in righteousness as well as stages in punishment. Notice our spirit returns to God who gave it, our soul needs to be saved. Nor is fire a judgment for eternity. God used cloven tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost at the beginning of the church age, because we are not perfect, and at the end of the church age he will use the lake of fire to punish the wicked. But not forever. You want to understand God’s fire look at scripture.

I am not perfect and have not arrived and understand my God is a consuming fire and that is a good thing. Those who love the Lord and long to see His purpose fulfilled in their lives, are willing to accept Him as a refiner’s fire, as a thresher of wheat, as a presser of olives, as a crusher of grapes, and as a scourging Father! We accepted Him as Saviour, Baptizer, Healer, and Blesser; now we are accepting Him as the Lord of the fires! Our Father has made us willing to embrace the means He uses to perfect us. He perfects us in the crucible of adversities. The tribulations He sends us are not punishments for past failures, but divine tools to conform us to His image. Paul’s thorn in the flesh, Job’s loss of all his possessions, family, and health, Joseph’s betrayal by his brethren, his being sold as a slave, and later his being falsely accused and thrown into prison, were all for a divine purpose.

You know Jesus God a dove when He was Baptized in the river Jordon; on the day of Pentecost believers got cloven tongues of fire. Jesus is perfect; we are not. The word fire comes from the Greek word “pur’ which we get our English word pure, purify, purge and the good old catholic purgatory.


Don't forget Daniels friend’s thrown in the Fiery Furnace in Babylon. Only their bondages were burn. Does not Baby lon speak of the religious/political systems of man? They were in Baby lon.
Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.


Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified in God’s holy judgment. The point is simple in the 12 or 13 times that the Bible is referring to the word Gehenna it is directed towards God’s people and how important is to overcome sin.

Matthew 5:22 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Rica' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell (Ge-hen-na).





mdo757 said:
ForeverTrue said:
While studying, my husband and I came across several instances where words had been replaced with hell. For example, Gehenna (Gehenna meant a place of burning, a valley where rebellious Jews had been slaughtered before and would be again if they didn't repent, as Malachi, John the Baptist, and Jesus urged them to do), Topheth, Hades.

Hell has replaced Gehenna:
You should note that Orthodox Jews have never believed in a Hell, and that the concept is foreign to the Old Testament. Since the days of Yahshua, Christianity has been combating Paganism and Gnosticism. Hell and Hades are part of the Pagan religion. The word "fire" in scripture is often parabolic for "judgement." The "eternal fire" is not a literal fire that burns forever, but it is a judgement for all eternity. What happens in the final judgement is that Yahwah takes away the life of the condemned, and they no longer exist.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
 
The answer is VERY MANIPULATED!

Originally (as in the original autographs of the gospels, the ones that the historical Protestant Church has recognized as "inspired by God, not to be confused with all the copies of the copies of the copies, etc. that followed), Jesus never advocated for Hell. He didn't believe in it, nor could he have.

Of course, a lot of believers would rather set aside everything else Jesus had to say in order to prop up the small handful of uninspired interpolations that place "Hell" on Jesus' lips. In fact, that might be the exact reason why they find it so easy to believe that the same Jesus who taught us to love those who hate us, to turn the other cheek, to forgive 70x7, to do all we can to relieve the suffering as he did during his life, and on and on we could go, will one day do a 180 and become the direct cause of the worst possible suffering ever! To believe in Hell is to do away with all else he taught, and maybe even give God a "head start" on hurting others!

If one is willing to look, there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn BILLIONS of people for an ETERNITY!

True, there are a few statements that made their way into the copies of copies of copies of the gospel texts which place “Hell†on Jesus’ lips, but these adulterations came along many decades after his death, most likely due to the Church filling up with Greeks who imported their belief in Hades with them when they converted.

Again, bear in mind that the historical Protestant doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures applies only to the original autographs, not the copies. But sadly, the interpolations that made their way into those copies have provided a convenient excuse for a lot of people to get around following Jesus’ real message.
 
3 - No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This includes Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.
 
Back
Top