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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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†. Gen 19:3 . . He prepared a feast for them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
Lot's is the very first mention of unleavened bread in the Bible and it won't show up again until Exodus 12:8 in the Passover meal.
The Hebrew word for "unleavened" is matstsah (mats-tsaw') which means, specifically: an unfermented cake or loaf; in other words: bread made with sweet dough rather than sour dough.
It's easy to make sour dough bread without the addition of cultured yeast simply by putting fresh dough in a warm place and letting nature take its course because even fresh non-yeasted dough contains a quantity of naturally-occurring yeast which will cause fresh dough to go bad all by itself over time without the addition of cultured yeast. So it's not the yeast content that categorizes bread as leavened or unleavened; it's simply whether the bread is made with spoiled dough or fresh dough.
†. 1Cor 5:6 . . Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
In the days prior to baking with cultured yeast, cooks kept a supply of spoiled dough on hand for mixing with fresh dough and thus considerably reduced the time required for fermentation by taking advantage of the spoiled dough's yeast content. They probably didn't know all that much about the properties of fungi in those days but one thing they did know was that when they mixed old dough with new and let it set for a bit, the blended batch tended to make puffy bread due to minute bubbles in the mix; which today we know was carbon dioxide.
But either way, bread with leavened dough takes longer to make because time has to be allotted for the yeasts-- either the naturally-occurring yeasts or the spoiled-dough yeasts --to do their job. So if you're in a hurry to feed someone, then unfermented dough is the wiser choice; for example: at Ex 12:1-11 the Lord's passover instructions dictate the use of unleavened bread no doubt due to the urgency of the Jews' departure from Egypt.
†. Ex 12:11 . . And thus shall you eat it: with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste
Point being, the Lord's last supper was a Passover seder: so the bread he blessed and broke for his men at Mtt 26:26 was made with unfermented dough. But does that mean communion breads absolutely have to be made with unfermented dough too?
Buen Camino
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†. Gen 19:3 . . He prepared a feast for them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
Lot's is the very first mention of unleavened bread in the Bible and it won't show up again until Exodus 12:8 in the Passover meal.
The Hebrew word for "unleavened" is matstsah (mats-tsaw') which means, specifically: an unfermented cake or loaf; in other words: bread made with sweet dough rather than sour dough.
It's easy to make sour dough bread without the addition of cultured yeast simply by putting fresh dough in a warm place and letting nature take its course because even fresh non-yeasted dough contains a quantity of naturally-occurring yeast which will cause fresh dough to go bad all by itself over time without the addition of cultured yeast. So it's not the yeast content that categorizes bread as leavened or unleavened; it's simply whether the bread is made with spoiled dough or fresh dough.
†. 1Cor 5:6 . . Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
In the days prior to baking with cultured yeast, cooks kept a supply of spoiled dough on hand for mixing with fresh dough and thus considerably reduced the time required for fermentation by taking advantage of the spoiled dough's yeast content. They probably didn't know all that much about the properties of fungi in those days but one thing they did know was that when they mixed old dough with new and let it set for a bit, the blended batch tended to make puffy bread due to minute bubbles in the mix; which today we know was carbon dioxide.
But either way, bread with leavened dough takes longer to make because time has to be allotted for the yeasts-- either the naturally-occurring yeasts or the spoiled-dough yeasts --to do their job. So if you're in a hurry to feed someone, then unfermented dough is the wiser choice; for example: at Ex 12:1-11 the Lord's passover instructions dictate the use of unleavened bread no doubt due to the urgency of the Jews' departure from Egypt.
†. Ex 12:11 . . And thus shall you eat it: with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it in haste
Point being, the Lord's last supper was a Passover seder: so the bread he blessed and broke for his men at Mtt 26:26 was made with unfermented dough. But does that mean communion breads absolutely have to be made with unfermented dough too?
Buen Camino
/
If you don't have unleavened bread, or a piece of rye crisp that can be used, I personally don't think that it would offend God--especially if you were to pray that God remove every trace of sin and leaven from your own lives. Sometimes you do what you gotta do. But for the reasons that you gave, it definitely is more appropriate to use something without yeast and I would make every effort to do so.
Once a very sweet lady baked wonderful home made bread for us to use in communion. She was unaware of the history and use in the Bible concerning leaven. It was graciously accepted and used. She undoubtedly had seen a painting of Christ passing around a loaf of bread and it was her gift of love.
Once a very sweet lady baked wonderful home made bread for us to use in communion. She was unaware of the history and use in the Bible concerning leaven. It was graciously accepted and used. She undoubtedly had seen a painting of Christ passing around a loaf of bread and it was her gift of love.
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†. 1Sam 15:23 . . For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.
Buen Camino
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Well; speaking for myself; there is just no way I will fool around with substitute elements that make a mockery out of the Lord's supper. I should think it's better to go without the Lord's supper than to commit sacrilege by going about it all wrong. I sometimes suspect that people think Jesus has no feelings; and that those feelings might be hurt when people take it upon themselves to revise the Lord's wishes without first obtaining his consent.
†. 1Sam 15:23 . . For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.
It is virtually impossible to make a bread with zero yeast content because even fresh flour right out of the bag contains a certain amount of its own naturally-occurring yeast. Yeast isn't the issue: fermentation is the issue. In other words; the breads baked for Passover seder have to be made with unfermented dough. I have no clue how yeast and leaven came to be synonyms because they aren't. Though yeast left unchecked will cause fresh dough to ferment; it won't if the dough is baked right away before the fungus has time to do its work.
Buen Camino
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Sinthesis
Member
Leaven is not in and of itself bad.
What is important is the meaning of the symbolism associated with leaven. It is obvious that Jesus is not concerned with 'bread' or 'wine', but doctrines that multiply within, and therefor change, people(s).
When you repent, you are purging yourself of your old leaven, to be in-filled with the leaven of Jesus via the Holy Spirit.
Mat 13:33 - Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
What is important is the meaning of the symbolism associated with leaven. It is obvious that Jesus is not concerned with 'bread' or 'wine', but doctrines that multiply within, and therefor change, people(s).
Mat 16:11 - How is it that ye do not understand that I spake [it] not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 - Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Mat 16:12 - Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
When you repent, you are purging yourself of your old leaven, to be in-filled with the leaven of Jesus via the Holy Spirit.
I don't think it matters much. I have been to enough churches to have seen it done a number of ways. More importantly Jesus never specified what kind of bread we should use when observing the sacrament. For that matter He also does not say anything about using specifically wine or grape juice.
handy
Member
I don't know how "critical" it is.. but I do believe it is best to remain with unleavened bread as far as yeast is concerned.
The reason is because "leaven", in the New Testament, is representative of sin, death and corruption, especially a corruption that can spread.
I think as long as the bread is either a sweet bread made without leaven or a bread in which sodium (which purifies rather than corrupts) is the leavening agent, then it's OK because we are then respecting the spirit of the law.
The reason is because "leaven", in the New Testament, is representative of sin, death and corruption, especially a corruption that can spread.
I think as long as the bread is either a sweet bread made without leaven or a bread in which sodium (which purifies rather than corrupts) is the leavening agent, then it's OK because we are then respecting the spirit of the law.
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It's very rare to encounter Christians who know the difference between yeasted bread and leavened bread; and I suspect that some of the fault for that lies with modern translations like the NIV. For example:
†. Gen 19:3 . . But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.
The Hebrew word that the NIV's authors translated "bread without yeast" is matstsah (mats-tsaw') which just simply means sweet (as opposed to sour; viz: fermented).
If you've never done any baking; let me tell you: there's no need to add cultured yeast to dough to make it ferment; no, it will ferment all by itself given enough time to do so. Adding cultured yeast simply saves time by speeding up the process. Back in Lot's day, cultured yeast wasn't widely available so what they would do is keep on hand some fermented dough to mix in with fresh unfermented dough. I don't know how they learned that trick but apparently it was very effective. Leaven, then, doesn't indicate yeast per se, no, it indicates the fermented dough that people kept on hand to mix in with their fresh dough; and spiritually speaking: that is a really big no-no for Christians.
†. 1 Cor 5:6-8 . . Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
An additional meaning of matstsah is: greedily devouring for sweetness; in other words: eating dough as fresh, and as soon as possible before it has a chance to ferment. So even if you were to mix up a batch of dough with lots of cultured yeast, it wouldn't qualify as leavened bread if you baked it right away before the yeast had a chance to turn it. But if you were to mix up a bit of fermented dough with fresh dough, then there's no way you could bake it fast enough because the fresh dough becomes leavened the instant fermented dough is added to it.
Buen Camino
/
It's very rare to encounter Christians who know the difference between yeasted bread and leavened bread; and I suspect that some of the fault for that lies with modern translations like the NIV. For example:
†. Gen 19:3 . . But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.
The Hebrew word that the NIV's authors translated "bread without yeast" is matstsah (mats-tsaw') which just simply means sweet (as opposed to sour; viz: fermented).
If you've never done any baking; let me tell you: there's no need to add cultured yeast to dough to make it ferment; no, it will ferment all by itself given enough time to do so. Adding cultured yeast simply saves time by speeding up the process. Back in Lot's day, cultured yeast wasn't widely available so what they would do is keep on hand some fermented dough to mix in with fresh unfermented dough. I don't know how they learned that trick but apparently it was very effective. Leaven, then, doesn't indicate yeast per se, no, it indicates the fermented dough that people kept on hand to mix in with their fresh dough; and spiritually speaking: that is a really big no-no for Christians.
†. 1 Cor 5:6-8 . . Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
An additional meaning of matstsah is: greedily devouring for sweetness; in other words: eating dough as fresh, and as soon as possible before it has a chance to ferment. So even if you were to mix up a batch of dough with lots of cultured yeast, it wouldn't qualify as leavened bread if you baked it right away before the yeast had a chance to turn it. But if you were to mix up a bit of fermented dough with fresh dough, then there's no way you could bake it fast enough because the fresh dough becomes leavened the instant fermented dough is added to it.
Buen Camino
/