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Bible Study Isaiah 65

handy

Member
I was reading through another thread here and read this text:

Isaiah 65
17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
18"But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing
And her people for gladness.
19"I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people;
And there will no longer be heard in her
The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.
20"No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days,
Or an old man who does not live out his days;
For the youth will die at the age of one hundred
And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred
Will be thought accursed.
21"They will build houses and inhabit them;
They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22"They will not build and another inhabit,
They will not plant and another eat;
For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people,
And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands.
23"They will not labor in vain,
Or bear children for calamity;
For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD,
And their descendants with them.
24"It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25"The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.
Upon reading through this passage, one that I've read before, but not as thoroughly as this time, I'm a bit puzzled.

Obviously, this passage refers to the new earth and new Jerusalem. Since it does so...why the reference to the youth dying at the age of 100.

Also, because of Mark 12:25 (for when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage) how does bearing children come into play?
 
There will be millions of people replenishing the earth after the Tribulation---there will be survivors. These will be mortal people, those who form the nations that Jesus will rule over with that rod of iron spoken of, and those same nations will be duped into entering battle against Him when Satan is let loose after that thousand years.
 
I was reading through another thread here and read this text:

Upon reading through this passage, one that I've read before, but not as thoroughly as this time, I'm a bit puzzled.

Obviously, this passage refers to the new earth and new Jerusalem. Since it does so...why the reference to the youth dying at the age of 100.
Remember what the writer of Hebrews referred to when describing the time what Christ came to earth ?

but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Obviously you've realized the prophet cant be speaking of the eternal state, but rather a time of reconcilliation,a time when

former enemies ,the lamb and the lion, rest together.
Also, because of Mark 12:25 (for when the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage) how does bearing children come into play?
 
Verse 17 starts with: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind." This is speaking of after the Great White Throne Judgment.
 
Alabaster, verse 17 starts with: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind." This is speaking of after the Great White Throne Judgment.
Well I cant agree any sinner will survive that Judgement , and the passage you chose speaks of sinners.


There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.


Speaking of this time Jesus said that' he who believes on me will never die'. Probably not a good place to insert much literalsim.
 
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Verse 17 starts with: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind." This is speaking of after the Great White Throne Judgment.

Actually, it is during the time of the Millennium Kingdom that the earth will be undergoing a huge renaissance. We the redeemed will be charged with the restoration project for much of it, under Jesus Christ's leadership. We will be responsible to rule over the nations as they emerge and grow under the new Kingly realm.

This is not after the GWT judgment, but 1000 years before it.
That is why there will be many living among the dead resurrected to stand before God.
 
Actually, it is during the time of the Millennium Kingdom that the earth will be undergoing a huge renaissance. We the redeemed will be charged with the restoration project for much of it, under Jesus Christ's leadership. We will be responsible to rule over the nations as they emerge and grow under the new Kingly realm.

This is not after the GWT judgment, but 1000 years before it.
That is why there will be many living among the dead resurrected to stand before God.

I will have to disagree as of now...the description of creating the new heaven and new earth is also described in detail in Revelation after the GWT...it takes Revelation 21 completely out of context to say that there will still be a judgment in the new earth era.

Revelation 21 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
5And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new " And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
 
Well I cant agree any sinner will survive that Judgement , and the passage you chose speaks of sinners.


There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.


Speaking of this time Jesus said that' he who believes on me will never die'. Probably not a good place to incert much literalsim.

"Probably not a good place to insert much literalism"...possibly not, but how are we to take the context of this passage in Isaiah 65, if not speaking of the new heaven and new earth era, when it specifically refers to it?

I know of at least one commentator that states that Isaiah "switched gears" between verse 19 and verse 20 from speaking of the new earth era to speaking of the millennial reign, but that seems a bit contrived and a cop-out of an admittedly sticky passage.
 
"Probably not a good place to insert much literalism"...possibly not, but how are we to take the context of this passage in Isaiah 65, if not speaking of the new heaven and new earth era, when it specifically refers to it?
We place it in history, as does the prophet. The passage shows time passing, birth ,death ,sin and great blessing.

What must be accounted for is the change from before to after the resurrection of Christ. Isnt today the day of salvation ,the day we walk in newness of life in Chirst?
I know of at least one commentator that states that Isaiah "switched gears" between verse 19 and verse 20 from speaking of the new earth era to speaking of the millennial reign, but that seems a bit contrived and a cop-out of an admittedly sticky passage.
Well any mention or allusion to a thousand year period is certainly missing. And Im glad to see you dont think cats need to become vegans
 
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We place it in history, as does the prophet. The passage shows time passing, birth ,deathh ,sin and great blessing.

What must be accounted for is the change from before to after the resurrection of Christ. Isnt today the day of salvation ,the day we walkin newness of life in Chirst?

Sorry, but my mind just can't reconcile this one as speaking about the newness of life in Christ any more than as speaking of the millennial reign.

First rule of thumb in interpreting Scripture is to let Scripture interpret Scripture...like passages interpret like passages.

Compare Isaiah 65:17-19

17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
18"But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing
And her people for gladness.
19"I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people;
And there will no longer be heard in her
The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.

with Revelation 21:1-4
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

These two passages seem to be speaking of the same time and event...the creation of the new heavens and the new earth. Yes, we are a new creation in Christ, to be sure...but admit it, former things are still remembered, they do indeed come to mind.




Hitch said:
Well any mention or allusion to a thousand year period is certainly missing. And Im glad to see you dont think cats need to become vegans
;) To tell the truth, I do thinks that cats will become vegans...just not on this side of the GWT.
 
What a loaded text, huh? As we read it, we must keep in mind that is it a part of the Lord's reply to the cries of Isaiah from the previous 2 chapters. In GOD's reply He speaks of a punishment (judgment) that awaits the lawbreakers among the people (the lawbreakers seemed to be the majority) and of how He will preserve and bless the faithful.
Could this section be a prophecy that has a dual fulfillment? Could perhaps it be speaking of the rebuild kingdom under Hezekiah as well as the Kingdom that Jesus would establish and begin reigning on after his resurrection and ascension? To make this text apply to a post-resurrection setting may be a misapplication.

Who is this one that’s coming from Edom… from BozRah wearing clothes with red stains… this beautiful one with the strong arm?
‘I have [come to bring] justice, and [to plead] the case of salvation.’
2 But why are you wearing red clothes, which appear as though you’ve been treading a wine vat?
3 ‘I am covered with things I have trampled, and no man of the nations is with me, for I’ve trampled them all in my rage. I broke them up [like breaking] the ground, and poured out their blood on the earth; so all my clothes are defiled. 4 For, a day of payback has come upon them, and the year of ransom is at hand. 5 I searched and found none to aid me; I paid attention and no one would help. So, I brought salvation with my mighty arm, and attended to it in my rage. 6 I trampled them down in my anger, and led their blood into the ground!’
7 I’ve thought about the mercy of Jehovah, and all the virtues of His retribution, [and I’ve found that His] judgment upon IsraEl is just, for what He brings upon us is justice and mercy. 8 He said, ‘My children must all respect Me.’ Then, from oppression He saved them… not an envoy or angel, Himself!
9 Because He loved them He saved them… He spared them and [paid] their ransom. But though He took them and raised them, through all the days of that age, 10 they refused to listen to Him, and they provoked His Holy Breath. So, the Lord turned against them in hatred, and then He waged war against them. 11 But He then remembered the days of their ages, and then from the ground, He raised one who would shepherd His sheep.
12 Where is the One who poured His Breath on them… the One who led Moses with His right hand… the One with the glorious arm? Before [Moses} He conquered the waters, and made a Name for Himself through the ages. 13 Through the deep [sea] He led them, and like horses, they didn’t get tired in the desert. 14 Then, as though they were cattle, [they moved on through] the plains, while Jehovah’s Breath descended to guide them.
That is how You’ve led Your people, to make a glorious Name for Yourself. 15 So now, turn from the heavens… look down from Your holiness and glory! Where is Your zeal and Your strength? Where is Your mercy and compassion, which You’ve been withholding from us? 16 Our Father You’ve now become, for we wouldn’t be known by AbraHam, nor would IsraEl recognize us. So help us please, O Jehovah, for You are have become our [true] Father!
17 From ancient times Your Name has been on us, so why have You allowed us to stray from Your ways? Why have You hardened our hearts not to fear You? [O please] return because of Your servants… because we’re the tribes that You chose by lot, 18 and so we can inherit Your Holy Mountain.
Our enemies have trampled on Your Holy Place, 19 and we have become as we were long ago… a time when You didn’t rule us, and we were not called by Your Name.
Chapter 64

1 If You should choose to open the sky, the mountains would tremble and melt, as though they were beeswax in fire. 2 So, a fire will incinerate our enemies, and Your Name will then shine among [them]… before You the nations will quiver. 3 For, whenever You do Your honorable deeds, trembling takes hold of the mountains.
4 Through the ages no one has heard, nor have eyes seen a God beside You, or the deeds that You do, for those who are awaiting [Your] mercy.
5 He will meet with the righteous, and their [righteous] ways [He’ll] remember. {Look!} But you have sinned and provoked Him to rage, and because of this we must wander. 6 For, we’ve set aside what is righteous, as a rag that’s used for menstruation. We have fallen like leaves for our lawless deeds, and the wind will blow us away; 7 Since, no one calls on Your Name, nor do any remember to take hold of You. So Your face You’ve now turned away, and You’ve handed us over because of our sins.
8 And now, O Jehovah; You are our only [true] Father, and we are just [clay]… the works of Your hands. 9 So, [please] don’t stay very angry with us… don’t remember our sins for a long time!
Now, O Jehovah, look down upon us, because we are your people! 10 Your Holy City, Zion, has become a desolation, and JeruSalem has been cursed with destruction. 11 The [Temple] and the Holy Place of glory, by which our fathers were blest, is scorched and its honorable things are thrown down. 12 All of this You’ve endured, O Jehovah… You’ve kept silent and humbled us much.
Chapter 65

1 ‘I was seen by those not searching for Me; I was found by those not asking for Me. And I said Here I am to a nation, that had never called on My Name. 2 For, I’d held out My hands all day long, to a people who won’t listen and just talk back… those who’ve not followed in good ways, but who keep on [walking] in their sins. 3 They stand before Me and always provoke Me… they offer sacrifices in their own gardens, and burn incense on bricks before demons; 4 they sleep in tombs and in caves to have dreams; they’re the ones who eat meat of pigs, then [offer their] broth as sacrifices. So, all that [they offer] is tainted, 5 but then they say, Stay away… don’t approach me, for I’m clean!
‘This is the smoke of My rage… it’s a fire that burns through the days. 6 {Look} It’s written that here in My presence, I won’t stay silent until I’ve repaid; I’ll [rake] all their sins onto their chests, 7 as well as the sins of their fathers,’ says Jehovah. ‘Upon all who burned incense on the mountains, and spoke ill of Me in the hills… I will [heap] their [bad] deeds on their chests!’
8 Jehovah says: ‘When they find seeds in grape clusters they say: Don’t throw them away, for they will bring blessings. And that’s what I’ll do with My servants… that’s what I’ll do, so I don’t destroy all. 9 I’ll pick one seed out of Jacob and Judah, and He will inherit My Holy Mountain… he will inherit My elected, and they will live with him there. 10 Then in their groves will live flocks, and there in the Valley of Achor, My people’s herds will find rest… those who are searching for Me.
11 ‘But you are the ones who have left Me… those who’ve forgotten My Holy Mountain… those preparing a table for demons, and mixing [potions] for good luck. 12 So, to the sword I will give you, and you will fall in the slaughter; for, though I called to you, you just would not listen… I spoke and you paid no attention; you kept doing what’s wicked before Me, and the things I didn’t want are what you chose.
13 ‘And because of this,’ says Jehovah, ‘{Look!} Those who serve Me will eat, but you in turn will go hungry. {Look!} All My servants will drink, but you in turn will be thirsty. {Look!} Those serving Me will be happy, but you will just be ashamed. 14 {Look!} Those serving Me will cry out in joy, but you’ll cry out in misery of heart, and you’ll shriek for the destruction of your lives.
15 ‘The name that you’re leaving behind, will become a glut to those I’ve elected, so the Lord will do away with you all. Then I’ll give a new name to all those who serve Me, 16 which will be praised throughout the whole earth. For they will praise the true God, and those who swear oaths on the earth, will swear by the [only] true God. Then they will forget the trials they endured… such things won’t come into their hearts.
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
Could this section be a prophecy that has a dual fulfillment? Could perhaps it be speaking of the rebuild kingdom under Hezekiah as well as the Kingdom that Jesus would establish and begin reigning on after his resurrection and ascension? To make this text apply to a post-resurrection setting may be a misapplication.

I had thought of the dual fulfillment as well...and that seems as if it would be an explanation of the text.

Except, the problem still remains that 17 states: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind."

That trips me up on each interpretation I'm trying to apply here. Because even in Hezekiah's time, former things were remembered. In fact, Hezekiah re-instituted the Passover, a feast of remembrance.
 
I had thought of the dual fulfillment as well...and that seems as if it would be an explanation of the text.

Except, the problem still remains that 17 states: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind."

That trips me up on each interpretation I'm trying to apply here. Because even in Hezekiah's time, former things were remembered. In fact, Hezekiah re-instituted the Passover, a feast of remembrance.

I thought about that as well, but as I looked at the overall context, it seems that the "former things" that were to be forgotten were the trials they once endured.
 
Sorry, but my mind just can't reconcile this one as speaking about the newness of life in Christ any more than as speaking of the millennial reign.
Well we have ruled out the Millennium, the eternal state, the Old Covenant ,not much is left
First rule of thumb in interpreting Scripture is to let Scripture interpret Scripture...like passages interpret like passages .
Actually better to first consult the apostles, and Paul quotes Ias 65;1 in Romans 10;20, applying it to the church. And Pete speaking of the prophets says;Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Compare Isaiah 65:17-19

17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
18"But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing
And her people for gladness.
19"I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people;
And there will no longer be heard in her
The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.

with Revelation 21:1-4
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away
remember the quote from Hebrews ? Obviously the physical planet did not come to an end, what did?
, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Is this city the one mentioned in Hebrews 12;22?
3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

These two passages seem to be speaking of the same time and event...the creation of the new heavens and the new earth. Yes, we are a new creation in Christ, to be sure...but admit it, former things are still remembered, they do indeed come to mind.
And contrary to Jesus believers die dont they?
;) To tell the truth, I do thinks that cats will become vegans...just not on this side of the GWT.
 
Isaiah 65:17-18 Amplified
17For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a rejoicing and her people a joy.


There is no chronology between Isaiah 65:17 and verse 18. That is the thing that hangs people up. Remember the word, 'but'.


From verse 18 on we are reading about the Millennium and Jerusalem where Jesus will base His government.
 
Isaiah 65:17-18 Amplified
17For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth. And the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind. 18But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a rejoicing and her people a joy.


There is no chronology between Isaiah 65:17 and verse 18. That is the thing that hangs people up. Remember the word, 'but'.

From verse 18 on we are reading about the Millennium and Jerusalem where Jesus will base His government.
Odd none of he apostles caught that. LOL
 
I will have to disagree as of now...the description of creating the new heaven and new earth is also described in detail in Revelation after the GWT...it takes Revelation 21 completely out of context to say that there will still be a judgment in the new earth era.
Dear handy, and others, I don't believe in chiliasm (pre-millennialism), a future earthly Jewish kingdom of Jesus Christ from earthly, worldly Jerusalem. Chiliasm was long ago, in 381 AD, repudiated by the Church. Of Christ's kingdom "there is no end" (there will be no end). When Christ comes again, He shall reign for ever and ever (according to Revelation), and not merely for 1000 years. 1000 years can come to an end, but Christ's kingdom can have no end. We are in the 1000 year millennium of Jesus Christ now; the millennium is the whole Church Age until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
:pray
 
Dear handy, and others, I don't believe in chiliasm (pre-millennialism), a future earthly Jewish kingdom of Jesus Christ from earthly, worldly Jerusalem. Chiliasm was long ago, in 381 AD, repudiated by the Church. Of Christ's kingdom "there is no end" (there will be no end). When Christ comes again, He shall reign for ever and ever (according to Revelation), and not merely for 1000 years. 1000 years can come to an end, but Christ's kingdom can have no end. We are in the 1000 year millennium of Jesus Christ now; the millennium is the whole Church Age until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. In Erie PA Scott Harrington
:pray

The 1000 year period isn't Jesus' forever reign. It is His reign over the earth where there are still mortal men and many nations in it. It is before the end of all things, before the Great White Throne Judgment. It is a mere constituent of His entire eternal reign.

No one has ever said that the 1000 year reign encompasses Jesus' entire reign. He reigns forever.

We are in the Church Age now. The Millennial Age begins when Jesus sets foot back on Earth.
 
The 1000 year period isn't Jesus' forever reign. It is His reign over the earth where there are still mortal men and many nations in it. It is before the end of all things, before the Great White Throne Judgment. It is a mere constituent of His entire eternal reign.

No one has ever said that the 1000 year reign encompasses Jesus' entire reign. He reigns forever.

We are in the Church Age now. The Millennial Age begins when Jesus sets foot back on Earth.

Dear Alabaster, When Christ returns, there will be no more time. Eternity will begin. Christ will judge all people in His righteousness. Then His eternal Kingdom in heaven in the New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and a New Earth will begin and will last forever and ever. There will be no time for 1000 years still in this present world, with some people resurrected, and some people non-resurrected and marrying and giving in marriage. That will all be over, and earthly marriage will be no more. In the resurrection to come, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like as the angels in heaven. Christ will reign with His Church in heaven, and it will be the marriage supper of the Lamb, where the Church will feed on Christ's Body and drink Christ's blood in Heaven forever. It will be a glorious day without end, eternity with Christ God, for whomever receives mercy from Christ. May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on all of us. All of you, may Christ remember in His Kingdom. Amen. In Erie Scott Harrington
:pray
 
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