Islamists have it right on this!

[tessiewebb]

Listening to an interview with Anjem Choudary of ShariaUK this morning, he said many things that Christians and Jews can object to legitimately but this one thing he is right about:. Atheism, secularism, and many mores of "western" society are against the will of God. He was very bold in saying that "sharia law" would be implemented "sooner or later" in England, Belgium and other European countries as well as the United States. To him this will happen because of the will of "Allah", whether by force or stealth.

It is painfully obvious that the Islamists are more interested in mankind turning to the religious, moral and ethical standards of their god than Christians or Jews are to the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And the Islamists are far more willing to do whatever it takes to create a religious world than we are.

If you want to see the full interview, go to http://blogs.cbn.com/stakelbeckonte...e-on-one-with-uk-islamist-anjem-choudary.aspx. Scroll down the page for the videoed interview.

 

[reba]

so should use the threat of beheading to gain converts?

 

[Logistic]

so should use the threat of beheading to gain converts?

If Muslims use threats to convert people, those muslims will be responsible for creating people who say on their tongue, what is not in their hearts otherwise known as Hypocrites.
Forbiden in Both Christianity and Islam.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -Hitchens.

I don't remember, an army of Muslims went to Malaysia or Indonesia.

 

[tessiewebb]

so should use the threat of beheading to gain converts?

I'm sorry this response if from you, Reba. It would seem you would not have had this question. The answer though is No.

 

[tessiewebb]

If Muslims use threats to convert people, those muslims will be responsible for creating people who say on their tongue, what is not in their hearts otherwise known as Hypocrites.
Forbiden in Both Christianity and Islam.

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." -Hitchens.

I don't remember, an army of Muslims went to Malaysia or Indonesia.

Absolutely. Yet the efforts of Christians in feeding the hungry and aiding the sick and wounded have not had the impact the Muslims are having with their "violence or stealth" approach. Since we, as the sons of God, are to "rule and reign" with Jesus before and after His coming, what do you think the Christian approach is lacking?

Personally, I believe it is fervency of desire to see converts to Christianity. Of course, there are many Christians who are fervent and work their hearts out for just that. But there are many more who are not working for the kingdom of God to be established on earth. At best there is a lukewarmness in the pews of many churches, including the largest ones on earth.

The Muslim dedication to their goals is what I was referring to in my original post. It would be somewhat easy to stand against the Muslim takeover. But a very different story to stand against the secularism, rampant decadence and immorality of our own society. It appears that the focus of the Church as a whole is towards "living with" the societal mores rather than speaking and acting out against the ungodly persuasions of many.

As attested by the somewhat lackadaisical response to this thread, we Christians are for the greater part uncaring about either the Muslim takeovers or the lack of response to the message of Christ. What to do about either is the question that we might be needing to ask.

 

[BornAgain]

Listening to an interview with Anjem Choudary of ShariaUK this morning, he said many things that Christians and Jews can object to legitimately but this one thing he is right about:. Atheism, secularism, and many mores of "western" society are against the will of God. He was very bold in saying that "sharia law" would be implemented "sooner or later" in England, Belgium and other European countries as well as the United States. To him this will happen because of the will of "Allah", whether by force or stealth.

It is painfully obvious that the Islamists are more interested in mankind turning to the religious, moral and ethical standards of their god than Christians or Jews are to the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And the Islamists are far more willing to do whatever it takes to create a religious world than we are.

If you want to see the full interview, go to http://blogs.cbn.com/stakelbeckonte...e-on-one-with-uk-islamist-anjem-choudary.aspx. Scroll down the page for the videoed interview.

Seriously??? Anjem Choudaryis a vocal critic of the UK's involvement in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has praised the terrorists involved in the attacks of Sept 11, 2001 bombing! He believes in the implementation of Sharia Law throughout the UK, and marched in protest at the Jyllands-Posten cartoons controversy, following which he was prosecuted for organizing an unlawful demonstration. He was also investigated, but not charged, for his 2006 comments regarding Pope Benedict XVI. Choudary receives little support from the mainstream UK Muslim population and has been largely criticised in the media.

You really are going to promote this? You are right about one thing, they will do whatever it takes to create a religious world. Ask the families of the Sept 11 bombing.

 

[taikina]

as a pro-secular person this distresses me, i think im a bit scared of both of you. finland does have a moderate christian representation and a growing islamic one but is mostly secular in the general mind-set, and thats the way i like it. if sharia was implemented here or christian values became more prevalent that would mean violence and ostracism against me, i would have to hide parts of myself and my life even more than now.

 

[Stormcrow]

It is painfully obvious that the Islamists are more interested in mankind turning to the religious, moral and ethical standards of their god than Christians or Jews are to the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And the Islamists are far more willing to do whatever it takes to create a religious world than we are.

I would hardly call the zealotry of fanatics who blow themselves and innocents up a "religious world" that we should be motivated to model our own "missionary work" after.

Islamists are deluded. Should we delude ourselves into a "by any means necessary" approach to spreading the gospel?

And Taikina...you have more to fear from fundy Muslims than fundy Christians. The latter might "thump a Bible" in your face. The former would just as soon shoot, behead, stone or blow you up than look at you.

As unpleasant an experience as both might seem to you, one you'll survive. The other you will not.

 

[tessiewebb]

I would hardly call the zealotry of fanatics who blow themselves and innocents up a "religious world" that we should be motivated to model our own "missionary work" after.

True enough. Our "missionary work" must needs be very different but my point was the fervency with which the Islamists go after creating a Muslim world is lacking in the Christian world somewhat. Some Christians give it their all, true. Some do not. Outspoken assaults on immorality and vice is almost unheard of in Christian TV programming or other media outlets. Names are not named, sin is not heralded as repulsive. Instead, in the majority of Christian media and lives it is carefully not MENTIONED. If it is brought out it is usually directed at the church and not the society. People like Choudary are vocal enough in their media outlets for many of their followers voices to be heard in them. One line in the interview stuck with me when he said, "if you don't want a hand cut off, don't steal. If you don't want to be stoned to death, don't commit adultery."

Repulsive punishments to a Christian, but the sins mentioned are rampant in our society. So then the question is, we're obviously not going to cut off hands, heads, or stone people to death, so what do we do to bring about God's will being done on earth? So far, the answer is not much.

That is my basic point. Anyone who accuses me of "promoting" Islam or any of these punishments Islamists fancy is deliberately missing the point so before any of you mud sling or post any more insulting messages, please take a moment to read what I've said so far. Then consider, what are you doing to bring about the Kingdom of God on earth??

 

[tessiewebb]

as a pro-secular person this distresses me, i think im a bit scared of both of you. finland does have a moderate christian representation and a growing islamic one but is mostly secular in the general mind-set, and thats the way i like it. if sharia was implemented here or christian values became more prevalent that would mean violence and ostracism against me, i would have to hide parts of myself and my life even more than now.

Why do you have to hide parts of yourself and your life now, taikina? Finland may have a "moderate representation" of Christians now, but if the Muslims have their way there, both you and the Christians there will be in grave danger. Muslims are not any more friendly to secularists than they are to Christians and Jews. You will be wearing a long dress and a head covering or worse, if you don't convert, you will be killed. That is the method Muslims' use to assure conformity. Christians would be sad to see you maintain your secular life style because we know that without Christ you are bound for hell but we would not hunt you down and demand that you convert or die.

Have you ever looked into what Christianity is all about? Christ came to earth as God's only begotten Son to bring freedom to those who would believe on Him. Freedom from sin, evil and hell. Secularism is not freedom like this. It is the broad way, as Jesus said it was, and many there be that follow that way. It only leads to destruction of soul and body. Christ can give you such liberty as you cannot imagine without Him. Not only liberty from death and hell, but from fear and worry; when you depend on Him, your spiritual needs will be met and much, much more.

If you have or can obtain a Bible, I suggest you read Saint John chapter one as a start. The whole Gospel of John speaks of God's love for the people of earth and His great sacrifice in sending His only begotten Son to die for us.

I'm praying for you, taikina. I want you to be blessed.

 

[abide]

Listening to an interview with Anjem Choudary of ShariaUK this morning, he said many things that Christians and Jews can object to legitimately but this one thing he is right about:. Atheism, secularism, and many mores of "western" society are against the will of God. He was very bold in saying that "sharia law" would be implemented "sooner or later" in England, Belgium and other European countries as well as the United States. To him this will happen because of the will of "Allah", whether by force or stealth.

It is painfully obvious that the Islamists are more interested in mankind turning to the religious, moral and ethical standards of their god than Christians or Jews are to the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And the Islamists are far more willing to do whatever it takes to create a religious world than we are.

If you want to see the full interview, go to http://blogs.cbn.com/stakelbeckonte...e-on-one-with-uk-islamist-anjem-choudary.aspx. Scroll down the page for the videoed interview.

I saw this same comment word for word on another Christian site.

The Christians are told to show love. How is beheading anyone who does not believe what you believe leads to conversion.

God does not even force people to do anything.. He has given man freedom of choice. Trying to look at the Muslim's way of doing is way off base.

What kind of word would this be if people are FORCE to obey. There is nothing HONOURABLE in the Muslim religion nor Shariah law.



What about this...do they have it right in this practice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ible-victims/2012/04/04/gIQAyreSwS_story.html

 

[taikina]

Why do you have to hide parts of yourself and your life now, taikina?

Gay relationship, pro-drugs Sure i wish we could all express ourselves freely anywhere, anytime but people can be pretty unsympathetic to those they choose to antagonize. And sure i dont mind that i can atleast do these things in private or in good company. I understand they may bother some people if they have to see it.

Finland may have a "moderate representation" of Christians now, but if the Muslims have their way there, both you and the Christians there will be in grave danger.

I know, they talk a lot about multiculturalism and racism here. These tend to also be used to shut people up who oppose islam or immigration.

You will be wearing a long dress and a head covering or worse, if you don't convert, you will be killed.

well i am a bit androgynous but i doubt they'll mistake me for a female :P

Christians would be sad to see you maintain your secular life style because we know that without Christ you are bound for hell but we would not hunt you down and demand that you convert or die.

This is quite tough to respond to, since i think that people who would kill me in the name of Christ are christians too and not all muslims would want me dead. The issue is more about who will be shaping our society, if society takes an overtly christian OR overtly muslim shape, i might not be killed outright but be an outcast(Like not being able to work, not having a social security net, having my rights ignored etc. because i do not fit a certain mold they set for me even though i could still be a productive member of society as i am)

Have you ever looked into what Christianity is all about?

I can say i have a certain picture of what christianity and similiar religions are about but stating that might get me an infraction. If you are truly right about reality(~95% of all sentience ever tormented overtly and needlessly) nothing can make anything right ever, it's the end of goodness and reason and we are all pawns in a nihilistic play of unparalleled grotesqueness. I'm really sorry for this choice of words but i feel it is necessary to underline my feelings on the matter, feel free to challenge my opinion or ignore it outright.

If you have or can obtain a Bible, I suggest you read Saint John chapter one as a start. The whole Gospel of John speaks of God's love for the people of earth and His great sacrifice in sending His only begotten Son to die for us.

I might read the bible more sometime, i'll get to that part after i've read through all the cool descriptions of angels other weird stuff is in there.

I'm praying for you, taikina. I want you to be blessed.

thanks

 

[tessiewebb]

I saw this same comment word for word on another Christian site.

The Christians are told to show love. How is beheading anyone who does not believe what you believe leads to conversion.

God does not even force people to do anything.. He has given man freedom of choice. Trying to look at the Muslim's way of doing is way off base.

What kind of word would this be if people are FORCE to obey. There is nothing HONOURABLE in the Muslim religion nor Shariah law.



What about this...do they have it right in this practice.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ible-victims/2012/04/04/gIQAyreSwS_story.html

You know, it gets a bit wearisome having to explain my point over and over but here goes. THE POINT: Islamists have a great fervency in their drive to convert the world to worship their god and obey what they believe that god's will to be. Christians in great part lack that fervency. We have settled, for the most part, for being part of our societies, not turning it upside down as did the Christ and His followers.

I do not think they are right about beheadings, stonings, cutting off of limbs, forcing women into clothing that smothers them, forcing people to convert or die or any other tenets of Islam. Islam is a false religion worshiping a moon god.

OKAY??

 

[abide]

You know, it gets a bit wearisome having to explain my point over and over but here goes. THE POINT: Islamists have a great fervency in their drive to convert the world to worship their god and obey what they believe that god's will to be. Christians in great part lack that fervency. We have settled, for the most part, for being part of our societies, not turning it upside down as did the Christ and His followers.

I do not think they are right about beheadings, stonings, cutting off of limbs, forcing women into clothing that smothers them, forcing people to convert or die or any other tenets of Islam. Islam is a false religion worshiping a moon god.

OKAY??

SORRY THAT I MISINTERPRETED YOUR POST.

I agree that Christians lack the fervency. Perhaps this could be another post on why is this is so. I made a post recently asking the question what would the apostle Paul do with the technology that is available today if it were in his day. I believe the church can do more. Three thousand people were baptised in one day. Technology was not available, there were no large cruise liners but Paul travelled far and wide.

I believe the Christian church has found itself in a rut. A W Tozer said it best.

http://www.truthforfree.com/html/article_christiansgreatestenemy.html

 

[tessiewebb]

Gay relationship, pro-drugs Sure i wish we could all express ourselves freely anywhere, anytime but people can be pretty unsympathetic to those they choose to antagonize. And sure i dont mind that i can atleast do these things in private or in good company. I understand they may bother some people if they have to see it.

As you no doubt have experienced, the "expression of ourselves" leads to some pretty outrageous behavior. Where does it end? We've recently had several shootings of people in public places here in the states. You would probably agree that kind of self-expression is necessary to curtail. Then there's the "right" of expression of drunks who drive and usually kill not themselves but others when there is an accident. Or the drug user who turns pusher and sells indiscriminately to all who will buy in order to maintain their own habits.

Taikina, you will recognize that I am here using the outer limits of self-expression and not the moderate forms of it. My point is what I asked earlier in this paragraph, where does self-expression end? It is difficult to think in the terms of limits for anyone, Christian or non-Christian. Understood. That's because we are born with the defiant "I'm gonna do what I want" attitude. If this is hard to believe, consider a baby who is thwarted in doing something they've fixed their attention on. Crying will be the least of the behavior that follows restriction.

I know, they talk a lot about multiculturalism and racism here. These tend to also be used to shut people up who oppose islam or immigration.

So right and good thing to post for those who don't live where Muslims are found living and preaching their tenets. The Muslims are clever at using the basic tenets of society to further their cause and as you say "shut people up". One Islamist I listened too, not the one I posted the url for here, said they would become the rulers of the world thru "stealth, violence, having more babies than anyone else or by any means necessary". They are very, very determined to "rule the world".

well i am a bit androgynous but i doubt they'll mistake me for a female :P

I'm sorry for assuming you were female. In the two languages I am familiar with, names that end in "a" are usually female. Apparently that sort of rule doesn't apply in Finnish.

This is quite tough to respond to, since i think that people who would kill me in the name of Christ are christians too and not all muslims would want me dead. The issue is more about who will be shaping our society, if society takes an overtly christian OR overtly muslim shape, i might not be killed outright but be an outcast(Like not being able to work, not having a social security net, having my rights ignored etc. because i do not fit a certain mold they set for me even though i could still be a productive member of society as i am)

One of the ten commandments is "Thou shalt not murder"; though it is translated as "kill" in most Bibles, the word literally means murder.

You are correct that if Christianity ruled the world right now, you might be shunned because Christians are not able to associate fully with non-believers. But at least you would not be killed or refused food and work. The shunning would only be because neither God nor Christianity can tolerate sin and what God says is abomination to Him. You would certainly be prayed for fervently.

There are forms of so-called Christianity which are not. These are not true followers of Christ. If Christians let God be God and themselves His devoted followers, the earth would be a paradise again. Problem is there are "tares" among the wheat of the harvest of Christ. These tares are plants by the enemy, satan, to throw blame and shame on Christians and Christianity. Yet a truly God-led ruling of the earth would be hard to take for those who persist in living sinful lives, true enough. Self-expression as another name for living in sinful ways is just a self-excusing coverup.

For those who refuse Christ's offer of the covering and forgiving of sins, there is only one outcome at the end of their lives, though it makes me sad to point it out to you. You see, God is God and always has been and ever will be. It is His word that I'm pointing out to you here and though it might be hard for you to hear, it is because I care for your soul, both it's present and future state, that I write these things to you.

I can say i have a certain picture of what christianity and similiar religions are about but stating that might get me an infraction. If you are truly right about reality(~95% of all sentience ever tormented overtly and needlessly) nothing can make anything right ever, it's the end of goodness and reason and we are all pawns in a nihilistic play of unparalleled grotesqueness. I'm really sorry for this choice of words but i feel it is necessary to underline my feelings on the matter, feel free to challenge my opinion or ignore it outright.

For the non-believing, sin loving people, yes, it is a deadly sentence. A pawn, though, has no free-will. It is by God's grace and mercy that we do have free-will and can therefore choose to look to Him and believe in Jesus, or we can choose to continue our "self-expressive" ways. What is noteworthy here is that ONLY through the power given us by faith in Jesus, can anyone overcome and be free of the sinful world's draw. Without that power we certainly are what amounts to "pawns", but in the hand of an enemy that wants us dead and roasted along with himself.

I might read the bible more sometime, i'll get to that part after i've read through all the cool descriptions of angels other weird stuff is in there. thanks

I pray that you will read it, even if it's the "weird stuff". It is the power of hearing/reading the Word that brings faith into our hearts and I most definitely care that you come to have the faith that leads to salvation from sin, death, hell.

Take care, my friend. I hope to see you one day in heaven if not on earth. May the God of all mercy choose you to have mercy on in all your days on earth and forever in eternity. (AND I look forward to more posts from you!)

 

[tessiewebb]

SORRY THAT I MISINTERPRETED YOUR POST.

I agree that Christians lack the fervency. Perhaps this could be another post on why is this is so. I made a post recently asking the question what would the apostle Paul do with the technology that is available today if it were in his day. I believe the church can do more. Three thousand people were baptised in one day. Technology was not available, there were no large cruise liners but Paul travelled far and wide.

I believe the Christian church has found itself in a rut. A W Tozer said it best.

http://www.truthforfree.com/html/article_christiansgreatestenemy.html

I accept the apology gratefully, thank you. Sorry to be so loud about it. It was actually not aimed just at your post; I've had many many critical, slurring and off point responses to this thread here and on other forums where I've posted this message.

I certainly agree that using the technology would be one way of more effectively sharing the faith. However, that sort of implies that "someone" needs to do it since most of us do not have control of the kind of technology that would be most useful for widespread spreading of the gospel. I believe it has to come down to the individual's determination to be more vocal and persistent in letting those around them know what faith in Christ means for a lost and dying world. Forming groups "against" something seems to be far easier than forming together as a Body to promote and spread the Good News of redemptive faith in Christ.

Witness the uprising in England of those who oppose the Islamatization of the UK. http://www.haaretz.com/news/u-k-troubled-by-increasingly-violent-anti-islam-protests-1.8030

Notice how cleverly the headlines and article put the blame for the "troubling violence" on the "anti-Islam protestors" and none on the "Muslim counter-protesters"! Almost makes you want to laugh if it wasn't so telling.

 

[taikina]

Added after i wrote all that: this too long, isn't it...?:p and totally off-topic, i even skipped the actual muslim part of the discussion...

As you no doubt have experienced, the "expression of ourselves" leads to some pretty outrageous behavior. Where does it end? We've recently had several shootings of people in public places here in the states. You would probably agree that kind of self-expression is necessary to curtail. Then there's the "right" of expression of drunks who drive and usually kill not themselves but others when there is an accident. Or the drug user who turns pusher and sells indiscriminately to all who will buy in order to maintain their own habits. Taikina, you will recognize that I am here using the outer limits of self-expression and not the moderate forms of it. My point is what I asked earlier in this paragraph, where does self-expression end?

[sarcasm]Of course i want to see people kill and maim others I THEY REALLY REALLY want to[/sarcasm] lol, we might have different views on what is positive self expression and what is negative. You(or another christian)might argue that i'm more likely to get STDs and spread them, or that i might commit rape, bestiality, pedophilia etc. because i'm bisexual. I might argue that Pekka Eric Auvinen(finnish school shooter)expressed, in a very grotesque and questionably efficient way, that there is not enough love and too much alienation. Where does it end indeed? I think we can mostly find ways to express ourselves without outrageous cries of help like these. Mostly :/

Btw im for legalization or decriminalization of all substances. It's better to have coffeeshops with fair prices and unadulterated substances, clinics with free unadulterated hard drugs with a side offer of a drug-free future plan and counseling than shady, immoral people selling absolute filth to anyone they can make a grand buck off of and manipulate. Filling jails with these people and innocent mishap addicts and potheads while chanting a mantra of utopian totally substance-free world is...bull.

It is difficult to think in the terms of limits for anyone, Christian or non-Christian. Understood. That's because we are born with the defiant "I'm gonna do what I want" attitude. If this is hard to believe, consider a baby who is thwarted in doing something they've fixed their attention on. Crying will be the least of the behavior that follows restriction.

You GO DO what you want, go ahead, you best try to grow into a good person that wants good, using your own wits. That is what gets you a good life. You can get help from friends, society, god but the only one who can grow up and do what you want to do is YOU, AN ADULT, not god, not society, not your parents. We are not children. We decide what we are, some people think its good to grow into a bad guy but they mostly get whats coming for them or rarely get extremely wealthy and laugh at us from their deathbeds of gold and ivory, the bastards. Not worth the gamble and guilt in my opinion. If there is someone limiting you, you best cry, kick and fight for what you think is really right if you wanna do it. There will always be conflict, tyranny and limits.

I'm sorry for assuming you were female. In the two languages I am familiar with, names that end in "a" are usually female. Apparently that sort of rule doesn't apply in Finnish.

Taikina = dough in finnish :D

You are correct that if Christianity ruled the world right now, you might be shunned because Christians are not able to associate fully with non-believers. But at least you would not be killed or refused food and work. The shunning would only be because neither God nor Christianity can tolerate sin and what God says is abomination to Him. You would certainly be prayed for fervently.

There are forms of so-called Christianity which are not. These are not true followers of Christ. If Christians let God be God and themselves His devoted followers, the earth would be a paradise again. Problem is there are "tares" among the wheat of the harvest of Christ.

Everyone who says they represent christianity, to me, are part of christianity. So yes, i think there are rotten parts of christianity. If every christian was so nice they would not exist anymore, they would have been annihilated. If every christian was a "tare" we might live in a fascist one-world goverment ruled by an iron-fisted fake-idol-jesus. The truth lies somewhere in between...

Also, you say i could've waltzed right in to chick-fil-a a year ago with my boyfriend, hand in hand, hand in my application and put on my uniform? It's the small things that add up to a refused-work-scenario... Don't say that they are not christians.

These tares are plants by the enemy, satan, to throw blame and shame on Christians and Christianity. Yet a truly God-led ruling of the earth would be hard to take for those who persist in living sinful lives, true enough. Self-expression as another name for living in sinful ways is just a self-excusing coverup.

What i am about to say is of satan and should be regarded as false:
There is no god, christian world order would just be another political system with its flaws and good sides. Sin has many man-made definitions, none of which have been etched to the inner workings of physics to my knowlege and you saying that my sinful ways are harmful to me and i am just taking any excuse i can to persist in them is you denying the real me and substituting it with a fantasy me that is pure inside and corrupt on the outside. Let's agree to disagree.

For those who refuse Christ's offer of the covering and forgiving of sins, there is only one outcome at the end of their lives, though it makes me sad to point it out to you. You see, God is God and always has been and ever will be. It is His word that I'm pointing out to you here and though it might be hard for you to hear, it is because I care for your soul, both it's present and future state, that I write these things to you.

For the non-believing, sin loving people, yes, it is a deadly sentence. A pawn, though, has no free-will. It is by God's grace and mercy that we do have free-will and can therefore choose to look to Him and believe in Jesus, or we can choose to continue our "self-expressive" ways. What is noteworthy here is that ONLY through the power given us by faith in Jesus, can anyone overcome and be free of the sinful world's draw. Without that power we certainly are what amounts to "pawns", but in the hand of an enemy that wants us dead and roasted along with himself.

You can be a little sad for my tragedy all you want but you're the one on the way upstairs. When you all have a ball in heaven and God asks you: "I wanted to make all you guys to get you to hang with me on this awesome place but do you think it was a tad bit distasteful to make you so special with the expense of taikina and the others?" what will your opinion be then? Sure He can make rocks that he can/can't lift and make the most horrible things be right for Him to do. But does he have to? I am a pawn with free will, manipulated.

I pray that you will read it, even if it's the "weird stuff". It is the power of hearing/reading the Word that brings faith into our hearts and I most definitely care that you come to have the faith that leads to salvation from sin, death, hell.

Take care, my friend. I hope to see you one day in heaven if not on earth. May the God of all mercy choose you to have mercy on in all your days on earth and forever in eternity. (AND I look forward to more posts from you!)

Thanks, i just want to say that while our views and realities might chafe, i mean well and im not angry or offended(gotta get this out of the way since you can only see what im typing, not my mood). I also don't mean to offend so i try to be a bit playful with words and add some humour(yes) if you're offended by what i've said, i can only say sorry.

 

[tessiewebb]

Added after i wrote all that: this too long, isn't it...?

and totally off-topic, i even skipped the actual muslim part of the discussion...

[sarcasm]Of course i want to see people kill and maim others I THEY REALLY REALLY want to[/sarcasm] lol, we might have different views on what is positive self expression and what is negative. You(or another christian)might argue that i'm more likely to get STDs and spread them, or that i might commit rape, bestiality, pedophilia etc. because i'm bisexual. I might argue that Pekka Eric Auvinen(finnish school shooter)expressed, in a very grotesque and questionably efficient way, that there is not enough love and too much alienation. Where does it end indeed? I think we can mostly find ways to express ourselves without outrageous cries of help like these. Mostly :/

Self-expression in any form, negative or positive, can be seen from both sides. To me it appears very different than it does from the one expressing it, maybe. And you are right, there is not enough love of the real kind, the perfect love that God has for all mankind, whatever their mode of "self-expression". Pretty hard to even believe in that kind of love since we all have our prejudices and pet peeves.

From God's point of view though it is not the sinner who is out of favor, but the sin. He knows that sins of any kind damage us. Sins of another or personal sins. That is why Jesus came to earth to "take away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). Even for many Christians that is difficult to take in. The sin of the whole world? Really? But so it is written as expressed by the Father God who loves us.
That is His self-expression.

BTW, I don't agree with not hiring someone who is bi or trans or "gay". The Bible tells us to come out from among the worldly and be separate but it also says very clearly that we cannot disassociate ourselves from the worldly else we'd have to leave this world. As Christians we gladly separate ourselves from the worldly ways, but we must never forget that God directs us to preach the gospel to all. He knows who will hear and who will not, we do not.

Btw im for legalization or decriminalization of all substances. It's better to have coffeeshops with fair prices and unadulterated substances, clinics with free unadulterated hard drugs with a side offer of a drug-free future plan and counseling than shady, immoral people selling absolute filth to anyone they can make a grand buck off of and manipulate. Filling jails with these people and innocent mishap addicts and potheads while chanting a mantra of utopian totally substance-free world is...bull.

I agree it might be better to take the drugs off the streets and make them safe for the users, but is it the best? "Hard drugs" do not help anything get better. "innocent mishap addicts and potheads"? What does that mean? That they don't know they are becoming addicts and potheads? They're just "doing their thing" and bam? Really, Taikina? And who should pay for those "drug-free" plans? I see so many families torn up by "hard drugs" here in the meth capital of the Midwest. Children living with grandparents becuz parents are lost in their drug world. Husbands and wives flittering away their days in jail or worse, blowing themselves and their children up becuz they're cooking meth in the worn out trailers they live in. You might say you won't bring a child into such a world, but you are in it now and you are someone's child. This world we live in is a real cesspool, sometimes I just can't think about it too much! One thing for sure, if the Muslims take over in Finland, no one there will have to worry about getting drug-free programs or counseling. That's a lot too warm and fuzzy for the hard heads and hearts.

You GO DO what you want, go ahead, you best try to grow into a good person that wants good, using your own wits. That is what gets you a good life. You can get help from friends, society, god but the only one who can grow up and do what you want to do is YOU, AN ADULT, not god, not society, not your parents. We are not children. We decide what we are, some people think its good to grow into a bad guy but they mostly get whats coming for them or rarely get extremely wealthy and laugh at us from their deathbeds of gold and ivory, the bastards. Not worth the gamble and guilt in my opinion. If there is someone limiting you, you best cry, kick and fight for what you think is really right if you wanna do it. There will always be conflict, tyranny and limits.
Taikina = dough in finnish

Of course I do not agree with this but you do in fact have a point. We do have free-will and we can kick and scream for our "rights". I have come to realize that whether we choose the "good" or the "evil", it has been given to us to do so. And neither good and evil are from the Tree of Life, but from the tree of the "knowledge of good and evil". One of the "blessings" Adam handed down to us. As the Bible says, the heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? Only the Lord who promises us a "new heart" knows what is in our old one.

My friend, I will complete this response later. May the God of the universe bless you with all spiritual wisdom and knowledge in love.

 

[tessiewebb]

This is where the Islamists are: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...rested-blasphemy-burning-quran_n_1809105.html

Anyone who still believes the lie that Islam is about peace, love and justice really should get on the internet more. They are fervent, all right, and Christianity could use some more fervency in its members, but this is just so wrong!

 

[AlexBC]

This is where the Islamists are: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...rested-blasphemy-burning-quran_n_1809105.html

Anyone who still believes the lie that Islam is about peace, love and justice really should get on the internet more. They are fervent, all right, and Christianity could use some more fervency in its members, but this is just so wrong!

Yep. I actually started a thread on this earlier today. Not all Muslims would do the same but this situation is just disgusting.

It's a little bit of semantics but the word "ferverent" is a dangerous one. Ferverent patriotism turns to nationalism. Ferverent worship...can lead to a 14 year old illiterate downs syndrome girl to be subjected to this.