Bible Study Israel’s Final Restoration

[netchaplain]

best include both parts of the mystery.

Hi Sinthesis - Amen, "As touching the election." The nation was a chosen nation. Though enemies of God, God still remembered that they were children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and did not cast them off forever, but remembered them in love. To this day he has preserved Israel, and yet purposes the salvation of the nation.

 

[selihah]

Hi Selihah - I wanted to share this for instruction: “Then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Heb 10:9, 10).

All of the animal sacrifices required by the Law were to show Israel God’s only sacrifice of His Son, which was the analogy of Abraham willing to sacrifice his son.

"The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent His own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins" (Rom 8:3 NLT).

God's blessings to your Family!

Hi Net Chaplain,

There are no 'required' sacrifices for sin. In the Levitical intruction, they are free will offerings for sin done in ignorance. In otherwords if you choose to offer an animal for something you're not even sure was a sin. It simply instructs the person as to the kind of animal permitted, how and where was to be presented. It is also written my in bible quite clearly in fact there is no sacrifice for presumptive sin. Meaning no blood, no burned animal, no butchery, no scapegoat can atone for it. As expressed in Ezekiel 18 and elsewhere only by repentance can one be forgiven of sin.

Also what you and others call the law of Moses was actually given to him by God, therefore I prefer to think of it as the instruction of my King and Creator. Dont tell me His instruction was done away with, tell your Creator, could ahead, I dare you.

 

[selihah]

Why does a King need to be concerned with a Divine sacrifice? He didnt do anything wrong He owes nothing. In my Bible He is King, Ruler, Sovereign it his prerogative to forgive, or not. My bible teaches personal responsibility to my Creator. If I mess up I bear the burden of my sin. If I repent, if I turn around and get back on the path and walk humbly with Him I will be forgiven.

 

[netchaplain]

There are no 'required' sacrifices for sin.

I appreciate your kind manner of communication, so thanks for your replies. The reason why "all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission" (Heb 9:22) was to prepare for Christ's shed blood. Hence the analogical type in the "sin offering" (Ex 29:14).

God's intention concerning the shedding of blood was to show man His disdain for sin, and it was God who was the first to initiate prforming this (analogous to providing His Son) in His demonstration to Adam and Eve by providing "coats of skins" (Gen 3:21), which were "of creatures slain, not merely for this purpose, nor for food, but for sacrifice, as a type of the woman's seed (Jessus), whose heel was to be bruised, and who was to suffer death for the sins of men; and therefore to keep up and direct the faith of our first parents to the slain Lamb of God from the foundation of the world, and of all believers in all ages. Until the Messiah should come and die and become a sacrifice for sin, the sacrifices of slain beasts were appointed (by God - NC)." Gill

God bless!

 

[netchaplain]

He didnt do anything wrong He owes nothing.

This is the initial question of everyone concerned about God. If God were guilty of anything, His provision of Christ's expiation would not derive from His reason for it--"Grace."

 

[selihah]

Hopefully Im not coming off too debatey like. Its just that many here presume to know what a nation thinks or should think. So, I just want you to understand what you are up against and why many of us will never waver. We see the Torah as instruction given to us by our God and King. Why we are in the position we're in is because we have fallen away from it, we've gone after what is right and pleasing in our eyes. But it has been written that in the last days he will pour out his spirit and write His Torah on our hearts. Israel will be restored and Torah will go forth from it, He promised.

Now I think we may in part be saying the same thing, in that grace is the prerogative of the sovereign King of the universe. However I think where we diverge is how we recieve it and He goes about it. I see my action, good or bad, as my responsibilty. When I sin against my Creator I need not only have to recognize it (which is what Torah is for) but I have stop it, ask for forgiveness and get back on the path of righteousness. He being King and a loving Father forgives me. That I see as grace. In Ezekiel 18 He says a person could live their whole life in sin, then one day come to their senses repent and return to His ways and He said He would forgive them. Is that not grace?

This is why we do not see a need to believe in a human sacrifice that spills blood to atone for and take responsibilty for our sins. Some have and I mourn for them.

Peace to you N.C.

 

[netchaplain]

Hopefully Im not coming off too debatey like.

I believe were okay here so far, and the Moderator team will kindly inform us if we begin to stray from the rules.

We see the Torah as instruction given to us by our God and King

If I may ask, are you Jewish or Gentile blood?

 

[selihah]

Primarily Goyim Cheesehead from Wisconsin, GO PACKERS! ;) And there is a small blip on the radar of Ashkenazi on my fathers side.

 

[netchaplain]

Primarily Goyim Cheesehead from Wisconsin, GO PACKERS! ;) And there is a small blip on the radar of Ashkenazi on my fathers side.

Okay and thanks for telling me, from your replies I suspected such.

But it has been written that in the last days he will pour out his spirit and write His Torah on our hearts. Israel will be restored and Torah will go forth from it, He promised.

I believe this is the prophecies of Eze 36:27 where God said that, "I will put My Spirit within you (which I believe may be the last surviving Jews), and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them."

This could be the final "new covenant" with the Jewish nation prophesied in Jer 31:31, which will not be the previous Torah but similar to it (v 32) concerning the type of covenant, in that it will be law-centric containing "statutes" and "judgments" (Eze 36:37).

The truths of the Eze/Jer prophecies are so obscure concerning Israel's end-time position that many have erroneously devised doctrines to attempt to explain these prophecies (even going back as far as the Church Fathers). There is no place in pure doctrine that ever substitutes the Church for Israel without also spiritualizing it to the point of drifting from the moorings of the massive evidence of Jewish language whenever the nation of Israel is mentioned in Scripture (with a single possible exception in Gal 6:16 which may be inclusive to mean all Jews who believe in Christ). Fortunately, these prophecies, like many Biblical doctrines are nonessential in reating to receiving salvation.

 

[Corn Pop]

There is no more promises.

 

[netchaplain]

All in Christ is Israel both Jew and gentile. The Most High is done with literal Israel, finished, done. All promises were fullfilled through Christ.

Hi Kiwidan - Appreciate your reply! I can understand why many have come to consider this concept but to truly discuss it we must use Scripture to support our views, i. e. "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew" (Rom 11:2), which to me means God has not fully cast them away "because if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead (v 15)?

"Broken off" (vs 17, 19 , 20) can also allow for being "graffed in again" (v 23), which will show God's same mercy for them again as to the Gentiles (v 31).

 

[selihah]

Okay and thanks for telling me, from your replies I suspected such.

. Intersting response, what would you have suspected if I had was 100% Judean or 100% Gentile?

I believe this is the prophecies of Eze 36:27 where God said that, "I will put My Spirit within you (which I believe may be the last surviving Jews), and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them."

This could be the final "new covenant" with the Jewish nation prophesied in Jer 31:31, which will not be the previous Torah but similar to it (v 32) concerning the type of covenant, in that it will be law-centric containing "statutes" and "judgments" (Eze 36:37).

The truths of the Eze/Jer prophecies are so obscure concerning Israel's end-time position that many have erroneously devised doctrines to attempt to explain these prophecies (even going back as far as the Church Fathers). There is no place in pure doctrine that ever substitutes the Church for Israel without also spiritualizing it to the point of drifting from the moorings of the massive evidence of Jewish language whenever the nation of Israel is mentioned in Scripture (with a single possible exception in Gal 6:16 which may be inclusive to mean all Jews who believe in Christ). Fortunately, these prophecies, like many Biblical doctrines are nonessential in reating to receiving salvation.

I think we are beginning to debate here because frankly your response, particularly the first quote had no bearing on the discussion. I will close with the hope some now may have a little better understanding why we do not see the need for a human sacrifice to atone for sin.

Listen to me, you who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my Torah; do not fear the taunts of men, nor be dismayed by their insults. For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool; but my righteousness shall be forever, and my salvation for all generations.

Peace to you N.C.

 

[netchaplain]

. Intersting response, what would you have suspected if I had was 100% Judean or 100% Gentile?

The same, just was checking my suspicion. Thanks and God bless!

 

[Corn Pop]

Hi Kiwidan - Appreciate your reply! I can understand why many have come to consider this concept but to truly discuss it we must use Scripture to support our views, i. e. "God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew" (Rom 11:2), which to me means God has not fully cast them away "because if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead (v 15)?

"Broken off" (vs 17, 19 , 20) can also allow for being "graffed in again" (v 23), which will show God's same mercy for them again as to the Gentiles (v 31).

I'm only a rookie at study but as i see it, and easy be wrong, is the Most High never casted them away and still does not. Christ has been. Christ is the promise so what more can the Most High offer Israel. And thousands upon thousands of Jews believed and were baptised, its in the bible, and believing gentiles are grafted into Israel so all are one in Christ Israel. So all believers are saved.

There is nothing left for the unbelieving Jew or gentile.

 

[netchaplain]

And thousands upon thousands of Jews believed and were baptised, its in the bible, and believing gentiles are grafted into Israel so all are one in Christ Israel. So all believers are saved.

My identification of Eze 36 and Jer 31 has not to do with believing Jews and Gentiles, but with the last surviving descendants of Abraham at Christ's last coming. This is the concept that Scripture is obscure about and the difficulties with attempting to substitute Israel for the Church. The Church are Jews and Gentiles. These prophecies only deal with the Abrahamic blood lineage, which language has nothing to do with the Gentiles.

I believe we are of the same concept here but I mentioned the above for all to ponder.

God bless!

 

[Corn Pop]

Christ is King of the promised land of milk and honey.

 

[Sinthesis]

Why does a King need to be concerned with a Divine sacrifice? He didnt do anything wrong He owes nothing. In my Bible He is King, Ruler, Sovereign it his prerogative to forgive, or not. My bible teaches personal responsibility to my Creator. If I mess up I bear the burden of my sin. If I repent, if I turn around and get back on the path and walk humbly with Him I will be forgiven.

When a Sovereign forgives, He is sacrificing something that was due Him. That which is not Divine does not have the power to grant eternal life.

 

[smaller]

best include both parts of the mystery.

Gotta love mysteries in plain sight, yet they remain unseen and unknown.

Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

I count 3 parties to that statement. God, [the blinded captives, the spirit of slumber.]

 

[Sinthesis]

Gotta love mysteries in plain sight, yet they remain unseen and unknown.

Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

I count 3 parties to that statement. God, [the blinded captives, the spirit of slumber.]

You are probably the only person(s) to count three parties there. I count only two, whereby the 'spirit of slumber' is just "them's" motivation resulting from their incorrect interpretation of God's given scripture

 

[eddif]

Leviticus 4:9
And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away,

The kidneys of Jesus were pierced with the whip (for our healing).
The Roman spear took care of the liver.

Jesus has joined Jew and Gentile together. We will not forsake the assembling of ourselves together.

IP224 the physical and the spiritual.

Rednecks will dress a squirrel and see the inner parts and symbols.
eddif