Bible Study Israel’s Final Restoration

[eddif]

Hopefully Im not coming off too debatey like. Its just that many here presume to know what a nation thinks or should think. So, I just want you to understand what you are up against and why many of us will never waver. We see the Torah as instruction given to us by our God and King. Why we are in the position we're in is because we have fallen away from it, we've gone after what is right and pleasing in our eyes. But it has been written that in the last days he will pour out his spirit and write His Torah on our hearts. Israel will be restored and Torah will go forth from it, He promised.

Being I started out as a side note Gentile, I can see your thought process. Those side notes can get you in trouble. Side notes may refer to truth or undo the word of God. Study bibles are not always truth.

The first five books I read and seek to use lawfully. As written they are written for a purpose. They contain the Law of Moses.
ITimothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

So many study bibles give opinions of what the word says. Much like the Torah side notes make comments.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

We all have to watch our traditions. The modern church has had a long time to develop errors of traditions. These traditions can be error.

Jew and Gentile alike can support traditions more than Scripture. As a redneck Mississippi feller I can take you in a 100 mile radius and find you plenty of traditions (Jew and Gentile) that are highly supported, but not very much God sent.

I have been very guilty myself, and have to continually rely on help to stay on the truth path.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Isaiah 6:8 KJV
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Mark 4:10 KJV
And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Mysteries are not unwound without revelation.

eddif

 

[smaller]

You are probably the only person(s) to count three parties there. I count only two, whereby the 'spirit of slumber' is just "them's" motivation resulting from their incorrect interpretation of God's given scripture

The same 3 are in Mark 4:15 and numerous other scriptures.

The unbelief of Israel was and still is caused by Mark 4:15, affirmed by Paul in 2 Cor. 3:14 and 2 Cor. 4:4 etc. AND is acknowledged by any "believer" who can read those scriptures and believe them, so nice try on the reverse argumentum ad populous but no banana for you.

 

[selihah]

sorry about my spelling in my above post, it's not presumptive it's 'presumptuous'. Which as I said basically means there is no sacrifice that can atone for willful sin. Which is why many of us dont understand why others continue to try to convince us there is and attempt to draw us away from our Fathers good grace with another doctrine.

Let me add too that there is no clearer message that confirms our idea of grace. When Jonah finally got it together and warned Nineveh of their destruction if they didnt change their ways. The king of Nineveh heeded the prophesy and the kingdom stopped their evil ways and Nineveh was spared. No sacrifices mentioned or ordered, just repentence.

Anyway, one day Israel will be restored. Unless someone has been able to measure the heavens and explore the foundatioms of the earth. His promise remains.

 

[Sinthesis]

sorry about my spelling in my above post, it's not presumptive it's 'presumptuous'. Which as I said basically means there is no sacrifice that can atone for willful sin. Which is why many of us dont understand why others continue to try to convince us there is and attempt to draw us away from our Fathers good grace with another doctrine.

Let me add too that there is no clearer message that confirms our idea of grace. When Jonah finally got it together and warned Nineveh of their destruction if they didnt change their ways. The king of Nineveh heeded the prophesy and the kingdom stopped their evil ways and Nineveh was spared. No sacrifices mentioned or ordered, just repentence.

Anyway, one day Israel will be restored. Unless someone has been able to measure the heavens and explore the foundatioms of the earth. His promise remains.

Who claims any sacrifice atones for willful sin?
How long was Nineveh spared?

 

[selihah]

If Im not mistaken, isnt one of the core beliefs of Christianity that the sacrifice of Jesus and the shedding of his blood was the final reparation (atonement) for sins of the world? I dont want to argue for or against that, if thats your belief that's not for me to comment on, its between you and your creator. Its just that I get my uns in a bunch when I hear others talk about how Israel will (according to the others doctrine) remain lost because they dont believe in the others religion. All I wanted to do was offer some insight as to why we see no need for a human sacrifice to atone for sins or the need to believe in something else other than what Yehovah has promised us to be restored. For us its simple "Salvation is far from the wicked; for they do not seek your statutes."

 

[eddif]

II Chronicals 7:14 KJV
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

The first covenant was temporal till the next sins. The first covenant is not eternal in heaven. The process is dependent on yearly performance.

The new covenant is based on the work of Jesus, and the result is eternal life.

All explained by Jewish persons with word in heart and mind.

eddif

 

[selihah]

eddif, do you have children? I do, a daughter, and the only outward evidence that shows anyone that she loves her parents is that she abides in our instruction. If she rebels, forsakes my instruction, chases after what is pleasing to her eyes. That would be an outward indication she does not love her parents and in fact hates them.

The same applys how we view our Father and His instruction. We dont see it like you have been taught every Sunday since birth as some Constintinian performance based legalistic obstacle to salvation. As I told someone once before love isnt about getting something for doing something. We see living our lives acording to his instruction as an outward evidence that we love our Father. We were chosen to set the example anyone may join Israel and become part of that. Unfortunetaly almost every religion and nation throughout history has told us we got it wrong and holds us in contempt. They say they are the new Israel, that they are the chosen, that they will inheriet His promises, that they have the answer to my salvation. But like they also say wide is the path that leads to destruction. But say what you will, we 'few' will remain steadfast in His instruction and promise because we love our Father. Which, according to Moses and Jesus is the most important commandment of them all.

 

[netchaplain]

Concerning the Jer/Eze prophecies, they unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I believe the intention of God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm the permanency of His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our conscientious eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first used to reach the world.

Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!

 

[selihah]

Concerning the Jer/Eze prophecies, they unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I believe the intention of God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm the permanency of His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our conscientious eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first used to reach the world.

Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!

I beg to differ, though prophecy may sometimes appear to be speaking directly to an individual, it is not always intended only for that particular person, his descendants and or their offspring.

It is written when a stranger (gentile) enjoins themselves and sojourns with Israel. God no longer sees a difference between the two. Since they are both partakers of the same covenant and citizens of the same nation they are addressed as one nation, Israel. So any and all prophecy concerning Israel affects them both.

Those gentiles who have forsaken His covenant are still identified as gentiles or strangers. They are the ones on the outside looking in, scratching their heads still to this day trying to figure it all out. Either out right replacing the covenant promise with one of their own. Or trying to enjoin themselveshet by somehow making their covenant compatibale with ours.

In chapter 56 of Isaiah is a beautifully written invitation and words of encouragement addressed to those gentiles/strangers who join Israel and take hold of Yehovah's covenant.

 

[netchaplain]

I beg to differ, though prophecy may sometimes appear to be speaking directly to an individual, it is not always intended only for that particular person, his descendants and or their offspring.

It is written when a stranger (gentile) enjoins themselves and sojourns with Israel. God no longer sees a difference between the two. Since they are both partakers of the same covenant and citizens of the same nation they are addressed as one nation, Israel. So any and all prophecy concerning Israel affects them both.

Hi Selihah - What I'm referring to is in the general sense concerning those who are descendants (not legal immigrants). I don't think specific situations such as you've indicated are what is being addressed in this issue.

 

[Malachi]

Those gentiles who have forsaken His covenant are still identified as gentiles or strangers.

Gentiles never had a covenant with God. Saved Gentiles are now a part of the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). After the Church is completed, God will resume His dealings with the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 144,000 in Revelation are a microcosm of Israel under Christ.