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Israel or Church?

mattiyahu

Member
Who is the real "Chosen People"?

I'm not fighting your beliefs.
I just want to share to you what I have learned.
I'm not trying to convert you to another religion.
I'm not adding another religion on the 30,000.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.

Church is mention 115 times in the whole Bible, while Christians are twice.
Israel is only mention few times, uhm... about 2575... and prophet 273...
Hmm... How about that? Thats very odd... I thought the Christians replace Israel.

Let's see what the Holy Scripture says:

Deu 7:6 For thou art a holy people unto the L-rd thy G-d: the L-rd thy G-d hath chosen thee to be His own treasure, out of all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 7:7 The L-rd did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people - for ye were the fewest of all peoples -

Hmm... I see G-d said, He chose them, not because they are many.

What more does the Holy Scripture says:

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the L-rd, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, the L-rd of hosts is His name:
Jer 31:36 If these ordinances depart from before Me, saith the L-rd, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the L-rd: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the L-rd.

Wow! Who can measure the Heavens above? And who has searched foundations of the earth? Has anyone done that yet?
Please... Tell me if anyone has done that, and then tell the L-rd, Israel is no longer the Chosen People of G-d.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

And G-d said, He will never change, then how can G-d change His mind about Israel then?
Are we making G-d a liar?

Even David, loves Jerusalem.

Psa 137:5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.

Isaiah 66:7-8 Before she travailed, she brought forth: Before her pain came, she gave birth to a boy.
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can a land be born in one day? Can a nation be brought forth all at once?"

In 1948 (Pls.Check if date is Correct), Israel became a nation again after being gone for about 2,000 years.
Has any nation done that before? Being gone for about 2,000 years, then again be a nation in just one day?
Please again, tell me if any.

In the natural, there seems to be no hope for Israel. The nation is surrounded by 250 million Arabs who are determined to destroy it. The Israeli people have grown war weary, and their leaders have lost the Zionist vision, prompting both to follow a policy of appeasement that is only whetting the appetite of their enemies. The major nations of the world, together with the key international organizations, are all pressuring Israel to surrender its heartland and all or part of its capital city.

But the true battle for Israel is being fought in the supernatural, and in that realm, G-d is in control. He has promised to preserve a great remnant of the Jews who will be saved when they come to the end of themselves and turn their hearts to G-d in repentance, accepting Yeshua as their Messiah.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look unto Me because they have thrust him through; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.

Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away unG-dliness from Jacob:

So they are temporarily, blind at the moment, moreover G-d promise to remove there veil.

I'm not saying that the church and christians are bad thing, moreover the Gentiles are the one who should let the
Jews know about the Messiah, so they can accept Him, moreover we should let them about the Messiah who obeys the
Law, in the right way. Law is not a Law, it is G-d's instructions. The Messiah obeyed G-d's instructions, like the treasuring Sabbath, eating Clean foods, and etc.

Israel is G-d's nation, it belongs to the seeds of Abraham.

Gen 13:15 I am going to give you and your descendants all the land that you see, and it will be yours forever.
Gen 13:16 I am going to give you so many descendants that no one will be able to count them all; it would be as easy to count all the specks of dust on earth!

In the Holy Scripture it says:

Zec 8:22 Many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem to worship the L-rd Almighty and to pray for his blessing.
Zec 8:23 In those days ten foreigners will come to one Jew and say, 'We want to share in your destiny, because we have heard that G-d is with you.'

Remember:

I'm not fighting your beliefs.
I just want to share to you what I have learned.
I'm not trying to convert you to another religion.
I'm not adding another religion on the 30,000.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.
 
Are you promoting the Jewish faith? I'm not sure what you are getting at. Jesus Christ was rejected by the Jews and therefore preached to the Gentiles. The Jews killed Jesus who was the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesies for the Messiah. The law was fulfilled by Jesus so we have no need to continue to make sacrifices. Sorry, I'm rambling, but really - not sure what you are asking.

Gal 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (NIV)
 
I'm not trying to convert you to another religion.
I'm not adding another religion on the 30,000.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.
I have learned from my many years here that when someone comes in with posts like the OP and also try passing on fallacious numbers like the one above and then try to convince us they are not trying to proselytize or convert, they are attempting to plug their agenda.
 
I'm also curious - is there a reason you have put a dash in the word God and other words referring to Him? It's so hard to read when the spelling is so messy like that.
 
Vic C. said:
I'm not trying to convert you to another religion.
I'm not adding another religion on the 30,000.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.
I have learned from my many years here that when someone comes in with posts like the OP and also try passing on fallacious numbers like the one above and then try to convince us they are not trying to proselytize or convert, they are attempting to plug their agenda.

Not an entirely 'fallacious' number really. Maybe a misunderstanding of using the term religion vs denomination but a realistic number when observing Christianity and its many subdivisions.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm

cheers
 
I'm not trying to convince you, but (insert convincing statement here)

I'm not a racist, but (inset racist statement here)

I'm not insulting you, but (insert insulting statement here)

This seems clear to me an attempt to convince Christians that they are not God's children. :shrug I wonder if the OP feels he/she can not say or type the word "God". :confused
 
I was curious about the g-d thing too????? :confused

The New Testament does not teach that the Church has replaced Israel. In fact, the New Testament often makes a distinction between Israel and the Church.
 
mjjcb said:
I'm not trying to convince you, but (insert convincing statement here)

I'm not a racist, but (inset racist statement here)

I'm not insulting you, but (insert insulting statement here)

This seems clear to me an attempt to convince Christians that they are not God's children. :shrug I wonder if the OP feels he/she can not say or type the word "God". :confused

Honestly, if you don't like what someone says, disregard it if you don't believe it to be true. How does someone present their point of view without explaining why they believe it, hence making it sound like a 'convincing' statement? It's not different then saying 'I'm not condemning you to hell' yet proceeding to tell said person that if they don't believe what you believe that is where they will end up. No difference.

I observed the following statement posted twice.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.

Sounds like an invitation to research and discuss opposing views to above said statements. Scripture was even provided. If you disagree present a case as to why you disagree. Don't just attack the post or reasons you think the post was made. Give an explanation why you think what was posted is wrong and provide support for your statement.
 
seekandlisten said:
Vic C. said:
I'm not trying to convert you to another religion.
I'm not adding another religion on the 30,000.
Research what I have shared to you, so you can see it for yourselves.
I have learned from my many years here that when someone comes in with posts like the OP and also try passing on fallacious numbers like the one above and then try to convince us they are not trying to proselytize or convert, they are attempting to plug their agenda.
Not an entirely 'fallacious' number really. Maybe a misunderstanding of using the term religion vs denomination but a realistic number when observing Christianity and its many subdivisions.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm

cheers
Actually, the number is very misleading. The main source for this counting of denominations does it on a country to country basis. In other words, the SCB in the US is counted as one, the SBC in Australia is counted as one, the SBC in say South Africa is yet another and on and on. Yet, they are the same denomination.

This is done across the Christian "board", so taking that into consideration, the actual, final number will be/is greatly reduced.
 
Vic C. said:
Actually, the number is very misleading. The main source for this counting of denominations does it on a country to country basis. In other words, the SCB in the US is counted as one, the SBC in Australia is counted as one, the SBC in say South Africa is yet another and on and on. Yet, they are the same denomination.

This is done across the Christian "board", so taking that into consideration, the actual, final number will be/is greatly reduced.

I realize this, but there are those on the outside of Christianity that see this massive amount of denominations and divisions. That was the point I was making. I believe the link I provided broke it down some more, to the extent you are getting at. The main point was that the person making the OP was simply stating that they were not attempting to add yet another set of beliefs to the many that are already in existence. To argue the exact number seems, to me anyways, irrelevant.

cheers
 
mattiyahu said:
Who is the real "Chosen People"?


Church is mention 115 times in the whole Bible, while Christians are twice.
Israel is only mention few times, uhm... about 2575... and prophet 273...
Hmm... How about that? Thats very odd... I thought the Christians replace Israel.

s.
Israel is an attitude first and foremost. After that, it has no bearing on our connection with Christ.

Jacob became Israel upon his conversion. From what to what? Study it. Christians are automatically part of spiritual Israel, which is the only and true one.
 
Contrary to popular belief, Israel in the Old Testament is not a symbol of the Church. Israel is a picture of an individual Christian.

The word "Israel" means "Prince with God," and "He who strives with God," describing both our natures.
 
Vince said:
Contrary to popular belief, Israel in the Old Testament is not a symbol of the Church. Israel is a picture of an individual Christian.

The word "Israel" means "Prince with God," and "He who strives with God," describing both our natures.

Now there is a point made in the right direction. It's never been about a nation/race(israel) or a physical place/authority(church). It has always been about the individual and what that individual does with their 'talent'.
 
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