Israel's Future Rescattering & Second Exodus...

[Bubba]

And one other thing You can explain to me when Genesis 35:11 and Genesis 48:19 were fulfilled if you care..

Tim, read my other post under literal 1000 years? Both these verses have been fulfilled, Jacob's sons became the 12 Tribes of Israel and Ephraim did become the dominant tribe of the 10 northern and actually became the tribe of national designation for the northern 10 through the prophets Isaiah and Hosea. Why is it so important to stay in the "shadows" when Jesus and the Church are the substance of these early types?
Bubba

 

[tim-from-pa]

Tim, read my other post under literal 1000 years? Both these verses have been fulfilled, Jacob's sons became the 12 Tribes of Israel and Ephraim did become the dominant tribe of the 10 northern and actually became the tribe of national designation for the northern 10 through the prophets Isaiah and Hosea. Why is it so important to stay in the "shadows" when Jesus and the Church are the substance of these early types?
Bubba

More than shadows. Yes, the OT were shadows of things to come, but they are fulfilled with the same people since the covenant to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is forever. These were unconditional covenants.

Tribes (and a 'dominant" one) are not nations. That's a very anemic fulfillment, because in Genesis 48:19, that same tribe (Ephraim) would become Gentile nations hinted at a type of grace, but yet fulfilled in the seedbed of these same peoples.

I think where your misunderstanding lies is that you understand there is a new order of things, from Old Covenant to New, but but what you fail to see is this would be done with the same people of the actual seed of Abraham.

An analogy is if one has a group of athletes that play basketball, but now the same group switches to baseball. What if some do not want to play but new people do? Then they are kicked out of the team and the new ones play, and that is your justification for believing that the true Jew is spiritual in like manner. But what you fail to see is that the same thing happened if the same team rejected the OLD game as well. The playing of sports was still with the same team.

Likewise, the covenants to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and to King David still stand with those people. What if they reject the New Covenant? The same thing as with the Old. But the promises are still with them just like the team playing sports. Besides, God said that a vast majority of Israelites would have a new heart (Jeremiah 31:31-34) with a new covenant to both the Jews and Israelites, but notice the initial emphasis is on the Israelites. Since God choses who would be saved anyway, He promised here that Israelites (the physical seed of Abraham) would be the ones to do so, and thus they are not only spiritual Israel, but the basis is actually flesh as well, sort of like dying and resurrecting again.

So you see, I am actually saying that many in the church, unbeknownst to themselves are actually the seed of Abraham physically as well, and like Paul said, "in this manner" all Israel will be saved.

The promises with Israel still stand as Paul clearly pointed out in Romans 9-11.

 

[Bubba]

Tim,
That is a interesting theory you have there, but what does it matter if the true Jew (and true Gentile believer) is one who has a circumcised heart?. In Romans 2:25-29, Paul tells us that ethnicity matters naught, it is the heart towards God that makes one a true Jew. As I already mentioned, what was once designated distinctly Jewish is now said to be the Church (1Peter 2:9-10).
Yes the Jews are mentioned in Romans chapters 9 through11, but in the light of what? Romans 9:6-12, Paul is delineating between who the true Israel was and they are from the seed of promise, not just the seed of Abraham. It is God who determines who truly is His and Paul argues God’s right to do this in the following verses. Less you think only the Jewish people are being addressed as elect, verse 24 says not of Jews only, but Gentiles also. Romans 10 is directed at the Jews rejection of the gospel and it is very clear that salvation for the Jew was through one source, Christ. Romans 11 does say all of Israel will be saved, but it is due to having a circumcised heart (not flesh). They come back into the fold by being grafted back into the one olive tree (Romans 11:19-24). It is only one olive tree that both ethnic Israel and the Gentiles are grafted into. Again for both groups only one salvation plan.
Bubba

 

[cyberjosh]

Re: reply

Josh, Maybe this will help. Let's look at the book of Daniel: I believe Our Lord acknowledged the gap between His first and second comings. Our Loord read from Isaiah 61:1, 2, ending with the acceptable year of the Lord, detailing the blessings of His first Advent in grace to Israel. He told them, Today this scripoture is fulfilled in your hearing ( Luke 4:16-21). The next line in Isaiah reads ( but it is not quoting Christ), And the day of vengeance of our God. This is still in the future.

Now there is a similar gap between verses 26 and 27 in the Daniel chapter 9. The 69 sevens of years, or 483 years were fulfilled by the crucification of Christ. However the seventieth seven, or the last seven years, are still in the future because there are six prophecies that must be fulfilled during the seventy sevens of years before the 490 years determined for Israel come completely to pass. Gabriel said to Daniel ( v. 24), Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city to finish the transgressioin, the end of backsliding for the Hebrew Nation, who will never again be apostate; this is yet in the future; to make an end of sins, as a nation they will no longer make a practice of sinning; this is yet in the future; to make reconcilliation for iniquity, they will be reconcilled to God by faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, their Messiah ( Zech. 12:9-11; Rom. 11:25-27), as a nation they will repent; this is still in the future; to bring in everlasting righteousness, this is God's righteous kingdom that Christ will establish on earth when He comes again ( Heb. 1:8, 9; Is. 9:6, 7; Rev. 19:11-16); this is yet future; to seal up the vision and prophesy, there will be no more need for visions and prophesies for Israel, for all will have come to pass; this is yet future; to anoint the Most Holy, or the most Holy Place, the kingdom temple; this is yet future.

I am in complete agreement, however this does not address what I was really trying to focus on in the OP: The scattering and gathering. However that was a very refreshing summary of the 70 weeks in Daniel because our Church each wednesday is going through daniel verse by verse and we are still on the 70 weeks section.

So what do you think about the final gathering from among the nations golfjack?

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Hosea says otherwise:

Hos 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now are they among the nations as a vessel wherein none delighteth.

Why did God do this? The answer is found in Jeremiah:

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when, for this very cause that backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a bill of divorcement, yet treacherous Judah her sister feared not; but she also went and played the harlot.

Don't get me wrong, even in Ezekiel there was some immediate application for them being spread abroad (Jerusalem was under siege), however some of the verses had both present and future aspects to them (similar to what golfjack wrote about Christ fulfilling something already in verse 16 but the 17th verse is still yet future - or something like that) and many of the commentaries I have read acknowledge the application to the millenial reign in those verses and similar ones in Ezekiel, because God has not yet purged the Israel of her rebels, dividing the sheep & the goats, to where only the righteous would enter the promised land (look at the verse again in my OP). This clearly did not describe the return from Babylonian captivity nor the recent 1948 reinstatement of Israel, for the verses in Ezekiel have a finality to them that says when God does this then he will set up his kingdom on earth. Its very plain to see that recurring theme & promise if you read Ezekiel.

Also notice that Israel's scattering/return was a recurrent event and many parts of Ezekiel recall that pattern (chapter 20 is one of them), starting with Egypt, after which God asks Israel if she will go into exile again by rebelling yet again.

What are your thoughts on that?

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

I found another short quote which mentions God meeting with the Israelite face to face and purging them being yet future:

Sadly, God warned the sinning Israelites of Ezekiel’s day that in a future time he would send them again into exile among the nations: “And there ‘face to face,’ I will execute judgment upon you. As I judged your fathers in the desert of the land of Egypt, so I will judge you†(Ezek. 20:35-36). God’s personal presence with them would surely not be a pleasant one. Yet it would involve a purification that would bring them into a new covenant relation with God and “then you will know that I am the LORD†(Ezek. 20:38).

In all of these cases God’s “face†means his personal presence in accomplishing his purposes. “His face is equated with his power as the means through which God did his mighty deeds.†The same idea may be seen in the case of unbelievers in the great tribulational period that will climax earth’s present history. Those who fear the awesome power of God’s presence in judgment are portrayed as crying, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!†(Rev. 6:16).

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=4707

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

The story of Genesis 38 tells of the story of Tamar's twin Birth. (The Basis for the Story actually starts earlier with Abraham) Anyways, Judah's hypocritical betrayal and sin lead to this.

Genesis 38:27-30 states
That Tamar bore Judah twin sons. During the delivery, a hand of one of the twinscame out first, which the midwife tied a scarlet thread to identify the firstborn, (who wascustomarily preeminent when it came to inheritance rights). But the baby pulled his hand back and his brother came out first. The midwife exclaimed: “How did you break through? This breach [or breaking out] be upon you!." Meaning, “You are to be identified with this from now on.†And to ensure it the child was named Perez (or Pharez), meaning “Breach.†Then the baby with the scarlet thread on his hand was bornâ€â€and he was named Zerah (or Zarah), meaning “Rising†or “Appearing,†perhaps because his hand had appeared first.

Genesis 49:9-10 states
Joseph received the birthright, Jacob’s son Judah, father of the Jews, kept the promise of a kingly line leading to the Messiah and David's earthly descendants. Jacob prophesied: “Judah is a lion’s whelp ... The scepter [ruler’s staff] shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes “Peacemaker†or “To Whom It (the Scepter) Belongs,†a reference to the Messiah, AND to Him shall be the obedience of the people.â€Â

So until Christ came there had to be a RULER OF DAVID on the THRONE. Which wasn't the case in the nation of Israel after there defeat by the Babylonians. So, either God is a Liar, leaving a gap, or most of modern interpretations are false. I do believe the ancient's knew this also. Nebuchadnezar, beleived he had defeated God when he killed the last of David's line through Pharez. But Zarah's descendants still were alive and unbeknowest to Nebochadnezar, the king's line could pass through a female if no male descendants were found. The act of the women of the half tribe of Manasseh pleading with Moses is a prime example. The Problem many Modern Evangelicals Have is that they can't distinguish between promises God made to the Israel and the Church, Let alone the Distintion Between THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and THE HOUSE of JUDAH!

Foriegn rulers in ancient times had absolute rule and authority many times, the kings of Israel didn't. God had Samuel anoint Saul as the captain over His people. The Hebrew term nagiyd can be rendered in English as a viceroy or governor-general, someone who stands or represents the real monarch. The very act of anointing a ruler of Israel in the ancient implies a vassal relationship. The Stone of Scone, Lia Fial or Jacob's Pillar comes into play, here but I'll leave that for another time. The King's of Israel “sat on the throne of the LORD,†as a co-regant 1 Chr 9:6-8, 29:23. In Israel, God’s prophet explained “the rights and duties of the kingship†1 Sam 8:25. The ruler was subject to the law Deut 17:14-20. The Almighty set up a constitutionally limited monarchy, in which He would send prophets as His representatives to the king to make known his wishes. Saul, the peoples choice, tragically failed and God removed him from office by bringing about his death.

God’s promise to David (2 Sam 7:15-16) that his kingdom and throne would be established forever still stands. God even obligated Himself to this course no matter what Solomon did. His confirmation of the pledge in Psalms 89:3-4 states, “I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn to My servant David: "Your seed I will establish forever, and build up your throne to all generations.†From this time forward, David would have a descendant sitting on a continuing throne ruling over Israel (at least in part, as a representative, physically) in every generation!

Psa 89:27-37 states, Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep for him forevermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. His seed also will I make to endure forever, and his throne as the days of heaven. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established forever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Jer 33:19 states, “Thus says the LORD: If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son [that is, a descendant] to reign on his throne.â€Â

Eze 37:16-22 states, Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not show us what thou meanest by these? Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

This is still future, God saw them as two distinct people, and he'll still keep his promise physically to a physical Israel. This is just the tip of the Iceberg, I hope you get my drift. I could spend probably 25 more pages just on this subject, easy, but for now, I'll just let TimFromPA, finish it from here, since we've talked a little about this, and he and I probably see eye to eye on most of this subject.

 

[Bubba]

This is still future, God saw them as two distinct people, and he'll still keep his promise physically to a physical Israel. This is just the tip of the Iceberg, I hope you get my drift. I could spend probably 25 more pages just on this subject, easy, but for now, I'll just let TimFromPA, finish it from here, since we've talked a little about this, and he and I probably see eye to eye on most of this subject.

Again:

"believe that such can easily be refuted by a careful reading of Romans 11:17-26. Yes -- Israel was 'blinded' and 'cast away' for a season 'until the fulness of the Gentiles', etc. -- I believe this 100%. But notice that the Church was 'grafted into' the same "olive tree"! Further, it is this same "olive tree" that the remnant of saved Jews will be grafted back into it "again"! Note also that we are speaking of Israel's "own olive tree" (v. 24)! There is only one body, only one people of God, only one Israel -- and it is spiritual.

I suggest that the exalted Jesus Christ reigns now on "the throne of David" (Acts 2:30-36), on the true "Mt. Zion" (Ps. 2:6; Heb. 12:22; 1 Pe. 2:6; Rev. 14:1), in the heavenly "Jerusalem" (Gal. 4:26; Heb. 11:10,16; 12:22; 13:14; Rev. 3:12; 21:2,10), over the true "Israel of God" (Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6; 11; 1 Cor. 10:18; Gal.6:16 - contrast Rev. 2:9 and 3:9). Who can deny such clear texts?

The "temple" is the Church (1 Cor. 3:16-17; Eph. 2:21; Heb. 8:2; 9:11). There has been an end to sacrifices (Dan. 9:27; Heb. 10) -- the veil was torn in two (Matt. 27:51/Mark 15:38/Luke 23:45). There is no future time of a 'restored temple & sacrifices' where God returns to the OT economy -- that is "retro-religion." Why return to the "weak and beggarly elements" (Gal. 4:9) of the Old Covenant, where the blood of sacrificed animals could never remove the stain of sin - such was not even possible (Heb. 10:4)! No, God has spoken in these last days by His Son (Heb. 1:2) concerning the New Covenant - "better" in every respect (2 Cor. 3:7-11; Heb. 7:19,22; 8:6; 9:23; 10:34; 11:40; 12:24). "

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

Note also that we are speaking of Israel's "own olive tree" (v. 24)! There is only one body, only one people of God, only one Israel -- and it is spiritual.

I Totally Disagree. God will not forget his promises to the Jews, Thats the House Of Judah, Israel, David, Christ. Nor forget his promises, to Jacob, The House of Israel, Israel. The two sticks haven't been joined, and all these promises aren't fulfilled in Christ. Revelation is about a restored Israel Kingdom.

I know the difference. I'm not calling you stupid. My other posts are more important right now. This subject is to lengthy to start right now! I'm sorry, peace!

 

[tim-from-pa]

I Totally Disagree. God will not forget his promises to the Jews, Thats the House Of Judah, Israel, David, Christ. Nor forget his promises, to Jacob, The House of Israel, Israel. The two sticks haven't been joined, and all these promises aren't fulfilled in Christ. Revelation is about a restored Israel Kingdom.

I know the difference. I'm not calling you stupid. My other posts are more important right now. This subject is to lengthy to start right now! I'm sorry, peace!

Doppleganger and I had some good conversations together who is one of my forum buddies here & I agree with Doppleganger.

To Bubba:

Israel is the earthly family and the means to bring God's light to a fallen world. What does it matter you ask what racial background one is? For grace, none to God. For race everything since they had a responsibility and by them God would be glorified the bible says.

It is thru the people of the race that grace is brought to everyone. Again, I see not only you, but many people confuse the election of race with the election of grace. When we speak of Israel, we are speaking of race. When Paul was speaking in various places, he was talking about salvation and grace to which there is "no Jew or Greek" etc. But regarding the promises (to race) "to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever."

That's why in one sense it seems like Paul makes it seem like it does not matter what nationality one is and in another he speaks about Israel (grace and race).

One other noteworthy point. The Abrahamic promises (and those of Kings to David) would occur for the people of Israel whether they are saved or not. IN other words, they would become a great nation, many nations with many kings and controlling the gates of their enemies, etc even in spite of themselves. Sure, there were times they were punished, but those promises would still come to pass. There are those that believe because the "Jew" rejected the gospel that those promises went out by default. Not so. They still apply not for Israel's sake, but for the sake of God's promise to Abraham rewarding him for his faith---- these promises were the reward and unconditional as he stated "by myself I have sworn".....

I have to go now, too. See everyone back a little later.

 

[MrVersatile48]

Again, today's news brings us ever closer to Zechariah 12:1-8

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070527/ap_ ... lestinians

But my main reason to come in here is to pass on the many relevant Scriptures from Operation Exodus booklet, "Bible Prophecy & the Jewish Return To Israel"

Exodus 6:2-4

2 God also said to Moses, "I am the LORD. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, [a] but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them. [c] 4 I also established my covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens.

Footnotes:

Exodus 6:3 Hebrew El-Shaddai
Exodus 6:3 See note at Exodus 3:15.
Exodus 6:3 Or Almighty, and by my name the LORD did I not let myself be known to them?


Leviticus 26:40-45

40 " 'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathersâ€â€their treachery against me and their hostility toward me,
41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemiesâ€â€then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin,

42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees.

44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God.

45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the LORD.' "


Deuteronomy 30:1-4

Prosperity After Turning to the LORD

1 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations,
2 and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today,

3 then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes [a] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.

4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back.

Footnotes:

Deuteronomy 30:3 Or will bring you back from captivity


Nehemiah 1:8-9

8 "Remember the instruction you gave your servant Moses, saying, 'If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations,

9 but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.'


Psalm 102:13-16

13 You will arise and have compassion on Zion,
for it is time to show favor to her;
the appointed time has come.

14 For her stones are dear to your servants;
her very dust moves them to pity.

15 The nations will fear the name of the LORD,
all the kings of the earth will revere your glory.

16 For the LORD will rebuild Zion
and appear in his glory.


Psalm 105:8-11

8 He remembers his covenant forever,
the word he commanded, for a thousand generations,

9 the covenant he made with Abraham,
the oath he swore to Isaac.

10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree,
to Israel as an everlasting covenant:

11 "To you I will give the land of Canaan
as the portion you will inherit."



Psalm 105:42-43

42 For he remembered his holy promise
given to his servant Abraham.

43 He brought out his people with rejoicing,
his chosen ones with shouts of joy;



Psalm 106:44-47

44 But he took note of their distress
when he heard their cry;

45 for their sake he remembered his covenant
and out of his great love he relented.

46 He caused them to be pitied
by all who held them captive.

47 Save us, O LORD our God,
and gather us from the nations,
that we may give thanks to your holy name
and glory in your praise.



Psalm 107:1-3

1 Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good;
his love endures forever.

2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say thisâ€â€
those he redeemed from the hand of the foe,

3 those he gathered from the lands,
from east and west, from north and south. [a]

Footnotes:

Psalm 107:3 Hebrew north and the sea


Psalm 126:1-4

1 When the LORD brought back the captives to [a] Zion,
we were like men who dreamed.
2 Our mouths were filled with laughter,
our tongues with songs of joy.

Then it was said among the nations,
"The LORD has done great things for them."

3 The LORD has done great things for us,
and we are filled with joy.

4 Restore our fortunes, [c] O LORD,
like streams in the Negev.

Footnotes:

Psalm 126:1 Or LORD restored the fortunes of
Psalm 126:1 Or men restored to health
Psalm 126:4 Or Bring back our captives


Psalm 147:1-2

Psalm 147
1 Praise the LORD. [a]
How good it is to sing praises to our God,
how pleasant and fitting to praise him!

2 The LORD builds up Jerusalem;
he gathers the exiles of Israel.

Footnotes:

Psalm 147:1 Hebrew Hallelu Yah ; also in verse 20


The many Isaiah, Jeremiah & Ezekiel promises are linked in an earlier post linking a recent thread

Israel reborn: Psalms 17 & 48 etc etc

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27370

God bless!

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Home - Operation Exodus. uk

http://www.ebenezer-ef.org/article.php? ... _page=Home - 41k - Cached - More pages from this site

Aid - Operation Exodus. uk

Operation Exodus BookRevised and updated during 2006, this is the third edition ... Operation Exodus is a ministry of Ebenezer Emergency Fund International © 2007 ...

http://www.operation-exodus.org/Operation-Exodus/aid - 31k - Cached - More pages from this site

==========================================================

Ian

 

[cyberjosh]

Thank you for the relevant verses MrVersatile. As for the rest, please return to the main topic. Has anyone read my last post? I clarified my position so as to avoid misunderstanding.

~Josh

 

[golfjack]

reply

I guess we are talking about the Israel being restored and how it is happening in today's world compared to what the Word of God says in Prophesy.

Romans 11:15, For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world; what will be their acceptance from the dead?

Here, Paul is making a prediction that in Israel's future there will be a national spiritual resurrection that will be so dramatic it will be like someone coming back to life from the dead. How could such thing happen? Remember my friends, With God all things are possible ( Matt. 19:26). How and when God will cause a spiritual resurrection to come to Israel is known to God only.

In Ezekiel 37, God tells him to prophesy to the dead bones. There is no doubt this is national Israel ( Ezek. 37:11).

Israel is reborn and thrives today as a mighty democratic nation. We are now awaiting the Jewish people's spiritual resurrection. Ezekkiel describes it as follows: ( Ezek. 37:23-28).

This is happening now and will soon explode into a global reality.



May God bless,, Golfjack

 

[preterist]

Israel is reborn and thrives today as a mighty democratic nation. We are now awaiting the Jewish people's spiritual resurrection. Ezekkiel describes it as follows: ( Ezek. 37:23-28).

This is happening now and will soon explode into a global reality.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eze 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.


That reality was fulfilled long ago. Paul quotes this verse:

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His sanctuary is here now and dwells with us:

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[Bubba]

Ezekiel 37:27-28 â€ÂMy tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.â€Â

Fufilled:
John1:14, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt (Tabernacle, “pitched His tentâ€Â) among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.â€Â

This not only indicates the temporary nature of Jesus earthly existence, but does so in a way that recalls ancient Israel’s tabernacle, where God could be found (Exodus 40:34-35). Geneva Bible Commentary.

Bubba

 

[cyberjosh]

Ezekiel 37:27-28 â€ÂMy tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.â€Â

Fufilled:
John1:14, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt (Tabernacle, “pitched His tentâ€Â) among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.â€Â

This not only indicates the temporary nature of Jesus earthly existence, but does so in a way that recalls ancient Israel’s tabernacle, where God could be found (Exodus 40:34-35). Geneva Bible Commentary.

Bubba

Sorry, but that is not the ultimate fulfillement. Jesus called his own ministry a visitation (Luke 19:44). The whole promise is given all the way back in the Pentatuech, Leviticus 26:11-12, "Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people" (and obviously the Jews didn't make this happen - they never submitted to Jesus to become his people when he was on earth).

Which 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 quotes saying, "For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
"I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM;
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
17"Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE," says the Lord.
"AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN;
And I will welcome you.
18"And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,"
Says the Lord Almighty. " (NASB)

God's dwelling in us is presently a reality but it was always God's express purpose to dwell among his people in his glory. John sat by Jesus and ate fish with him after his ressurection - calmly - yet when he saw the Son of God in all his glory and splendor he said he fell down like a dead man. God dwells in unapproachable light. The reason the stars and sun will grow dim in the end times is because God's glory issuing forth from the New Jerusalem will wash them out, just as the light from the sun in the sky washes out the stars (and, partially - though it shows through sometimes - the moon). God will dwell among us finally and have a competley pure and holy nation in the end times whom he can dwell in, in his glory. This is his grand purpose and desire that He will accomplish.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Bubba]

Cyber,
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

The “Tabernacle†of Jesus (He dwelt among us) is what qualifies us to be apart of His Kingdom now and in glory. Remember 1 peter 2:4-10:

4As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious,
5you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For it stands in Scripture:

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

7So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

"The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,"[a]

8and

"A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense."

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Do you not see this whole Temple and Kingdom thing is about Jesus and us the Church? It is a done deal the moment one believes here and in Glory.
Bubba

 

[cyberjosh]

Cyber,
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

The “Tabernacle†of Jesus (He dwelt among us) is what qualifies us to be apart of His Kingdom now and in glory. Remember 1 peter 2:4-10:

4As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious,
5you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For it stands in Scripture:

"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

7So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

"The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,"[a]

8and

"A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense."

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

9But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
10Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Do you not see this whole Temple and Kingdom thing is about Jesus and us the Church? It is a done deal the moment one believes here and in Glory.
Bubba

Yes the Church is his Temple and is still being built up, but all the promises culminate in their ultimate fulfillment in the end times, when we are Married to Christ as his bride. When the Bible said that we were given the Holy Spirit as a promise [lit. downpayment], the Greek word used there is used today in Greece to mean an engagment ring (a dowry of sorts) - in the sense of a future promise of the fulfillment of the marriage (thus engaged). We experience God's promises presently but they culminate untimately in the end, which is yet future. Remember the saints wait eagerly/anxiously for their revealing in glory (Rom 8:19). God's coming glory brings in his end times promise of dwelling among us and being with us in his Glory - and only those who are righteous will be with him - he has yet to purge the wicked from among us (see Ezekiel 20:37-38 & Ezekiel 34).

P.S. How did we get off on this from the main topic? Do you disagree that Ezekiel contains prophecies yet future? If so then you disagree with every commentary I have read yet.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[tim-from-pa]

I concur as to where cyber is coming from.

Another analogy if I may. There's been confusion about "end times". Some say they are here now or past already, others say they are yet to come.

We are in the "last act" of the play. The last act is the last act, but there is still stuff that happens in the final climax of the play before it ends. But events lead up to the end and just because some are happening now or has happened recently does not mean the play is over yet.

Cyber:

I hope you look at the bible from the house of Israel and house of Judah (the Jews) perspective--- there were two main divisions of God's people. An earlier post to which I asked you about this seemed to indicate that, but unless one understands from that perspective and assigns all prophecy of Israel to the Jew only, then contradictions arise---- hence, that is why people spiritualize the promises of Israel to the church and claim that things were past already . Paul had the same problem when some said the resurrection was past already, but I guarantee you there are corpses in our cemeteries here where I live yet. This is all future yet (e.g. regarding Israel's captivity again, dispersement and regathering as foretold in Ezekiel 37)