It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!

[tessiewebb]

I agree that presently the Islamic world is at violent conflict with the West. Just a casual brushing up of Ottoman Empire & Middle East history from the 17th century to the present will show that the Great Powers (England, France, United States, et al.) had a great hand in creating the environment for this violence to grow to what it is. Look up Capitulations, Balfour Declaration, D'Arcy Concession, the Mandates, the arbitrary creation of state borders.
Of course, the West and Christianity should not allow the destruction of our society. To end, or mitigate, the conflict we need to assess the many historical causes of it. Ignorance on both sides is what will continue the two civilizations towards the path of destruction.

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Just asking: What will assessing the "many historical causes of" the current agenda of the Islamists accomplish, joseph? And why need we concern ourselves with them when we have a current tsunami of Islamic takeovers of many countries and more in the works? We can sit in the past and watch the takeovers happen or we can do something to stop the flood before it completely overtakes us. Historical guilt accomplishes NOTHING.

 

[By Grace]

Just asking: What will assessing the "many historical causes of" the current agenda of the Islamists accomplish, joseph? And why need we concern ourselves with them when we have a current tsunami of Islamic takeovers of many countries and more in the works? We can sit in the past and watch the takeovers happen or we can do something to stop the flood before it completely overtakes us. Historical guilt accomplishes NOTHING.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "The past is prolog"?

It means that the plates set on the world table of events are largely responsible for the things in the present. The settlement of World War 1 gave rise to the National Socialist movement in Germany, and thus set the table for WW 2. the Crusades of the 1200s and beyond were caused by the Islamic fundamentalists 'converting people" at the point of the sword. You died if you professed Christ, and spared if you accepted Allah. The settlememts at the end of WW2 gave Israle the land in which it now occupies, and the ascendency of the Jews and Israel hardened the hearts of the displaced people in the area who caused the Diaspora who stole the land from the Jews originally living there.

That is why we study history. It helps us to prevent the mistakes of the past. Unfortunately it does not keep us from making mistakes in the present.

There are many suras and Hadith which tell the Muslims to consider both the Jews and Christians "kifir" or infidels. When that sort of history is running through the heart of the Muslims, is it no wonder that they are so much against Israel, Jews and Christians?

Does that answer your question?

 

[joseph]

Thank you, By Grace. You responded more eloquently than I could've. Tessi, knowing the past will help deal with the present. We are not going to kill every single Muslim. That is not an option and not the way of Jesus. So, some type of settlement will need to be made. Knowledge of the past will help in making any agreements / resolutions from being the cause of new violence.

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[tessiewebb]

Thank you, By Grace. You responded more eloquently than I could've. Tessi, knowing the past will help deal with the present. We are not going to kill every single Muslim. That is not an option and not the way of Jesus. So, some type of settlement will need to be made. Knowledge of the past will help in making any agreements / resolutions from being the cause of new violence.

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To Grace and joseph, My statement stands. Historical guilt produces nothing but pandering to enemies' agendas out of generational guilt. What is anti-Christ will always be anti-Christ until He comes and ends it. STUDY of history accomplishes nothing if it is not applicable to the here and now, prolog or post log, it makes no difference. STUDY of Scripture, yes, human history, no. That is, ok to study it but so what? What is past is past is past is past. Might as well stay in our sins if we are going to regard the past sins, either of ourselves or our "forefathers". Understanding why an enemy is an enemy is like trying to undrink milk. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof!

 

[joseph]

To Grace and joseph, My statement stands. Historical guilt produces nothing but pandering to enemies' agendas out of generational guilt. What is anti-Christ will always be anti-Christ until He comes and ends it. STUDY of history accomplishes nothing if it is not applicable to the here and now, prolog or post log, it makes no difference. STUDY of Scripture, yes, human history, no. That is, ok to study it but so what? What is past is past is past is past. Might as well stay in our sins if we are going to regard the past sins, either of ourselves or our "forefathers". Understanding why an enemy is an enemy is like trying to undrink milk. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof!

I think we minimize the anti-Christ applying the title to everything. Jesus did not sit with Matthew and the other sinners and accuse them of being anti-Christ. He engaged them and turned some of their hearts. Us acting in ignorance does more for the mission of the anti-Christ than anything else. The Islamist are committing evil acts, but blindly reacting to them does not serve our Lord. We are to evangelize, not destroy. I do not remember reading in scripture one instance of Jesus or Paul using violence or dominating another culture to spread the Word.

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[By Grace]

To Grace and joseph, My statement stands. Historical guilt produces nothing but pandering to enemies' agendas out of generational guilt. What is anti-Christ will always be anti-Christ until He comes and ends it. STUDY of history accomplishes nothing if it is not applicable to the here and now, prolog or post log, it makes no difference. STUDY of Scripture, yes, human history, no. That is, ok to study it but so what? What is past is past is past is past. Might as well stay in our sins if we are going to regard the past sins, either of ourselves or our "forefathers". Understanding why an enemy is an enemy is like trying to undrink milk. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof!

This is a comparison of apples to walnuts.

Individual sins against people are not remembered when they are forgiven. When you deal with the issue of sin, it is the canceling of an "obligation" of a sinner to the one sinned against. We all agree on that.

If you ever watched a show with Steve Irwin, the late "Crocodile Hunter" you watched him dance around a circle several feet outside the range of the tail and jaws of the reptile. Time and time again, experience taught him that there is a relatively safe perimeter distance where the animal can not hurt you. But that same experience taught Irwin that anything inside that perimeter is food for the crocodile. That is simply the nature of that dangerous beast.

In the same manner, once having read Mein Kamph by Hitler, or listening to a speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran or even several suras from the Qur'an will give indications of what to expect from their behavior. What they believe (d) was turned into action that conformed to their beliefs. General George Patton was able to defeat General Edwin Rommel in North Africa using vastly inferior American Sherman tanks against the superior German Panzer tanks because he read Rommel's book on tank warfare.

Therefore, what shall we expect when we read the following Suras in their Qur'an?

1. [4.46] Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.
3. [4.160] Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
   
4. 
   
5. [5.41] O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
7. (Pardon the formattting errors)

Thus it is my conclusion that hatred of both Jews and Christians is imprinted in the minds of Muslims since birth. Of course, you are free to believe differently than me, but you are not free to ignore these (and other) similar suras now that you are exposed to them. Unfortunately, this is not like the milk you drink, it is strychnine. And with such poison coursing through your mind and body, the fruits can not be ignored; to do so is to forget the reality of the nature of the very dangerous beast called Islam.

 

[tessiewebb]

This is a comparison of apples to walnuts.

Individual sins against people are not remembered when they are forgiven. When you deal with the issue of sin, it is the canceling of an "obligation" of a sinner to the one sinned against. We all agree on that.

If you ever watched a show with Steve Irwin, the late "Crocodile Hunter" you watched him dance around a circle several feet outside the range of the tail and jaws of the reptile. Time and time again, experience taught him that there is a relatively safe perimeter distance where the animal can not hurt you. But that same experience taught Irwin that anything inside that perimeter is food for the crocodile. That is simply the nature of that dangerous beast.

In the same manner, once having read Mein Kamph by Hitler, or listening to a speech by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, President of Iran or even several suras from the Qur'an will give indications of what to expect from their behavior. What they believe (d) was turned into action that conformed to their beliefs. General George Patton was able to defeat General Edwin Rommel in North Africa using vastly inferior American Sherman tanks against the superior German Panzer tanks because he read Rommel's book on tank warfare.

Therefore, what shall we expect when we read the following Suras in their Qur'an?

1. [4.46] Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.
3. [4.160] Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
   
4. 
   
5. [5.41] O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
7. (Pardon the formattting errors)

Thus it is my conclusion that hatred of both Jews and Christians is imprinted in the minds of Muslims since birth. Of course, you are free to believe differently than me, but you are not free to ignore these (and other) similar suras now that you are exposed to them. Unfortunately, this is not like the milk you drink, it is strychnine. And with such poison coursing through your mind and body, the fruits can not be ignored; to do so is to forget the reality of the nature of the very dangerous beast called Islam.

Your estimation of Islam coincides exactly with what I've seen, heard, read and learned from the Spirit of God. We have no disagreement there. It is the "why" of Islam that I have no concern with, either from the Quran or their actions. I see, I understand and I am adamant in bringing out to those who do not, will not or cannot see the violent driving force behind Islam is satan. It is clear as a cloudless sky to anyone who will look and see and be informed. You and I are not in disagreement except that I do not believe for an instant that the "why" of the violent, deceitful, sinful nature of Islam is not absolutely clear. So why linger on it by studying the ins and outs of history? The Islamists love to dwell on the past. The Crusades are their big argument and use of those days is meant to produce guilt in Christians. Guilt stupefies, hinders, and shuts down action. I refuse it, in the Name of Jesus! It is the here and now in which we all live. The jealousy inherent in the writing of the Quran and the life of Mohammed is so old, it predates the Crusades by thousands of years. Ishmaelites versus Isaac's offspring, a clear background for Islam's hatred of Jews. What more need we know? Don't come to believe, grace, that I am opposed to your words, no, far from it. I am utterly opposed to the pandering to Islamists, as we see happening throughout Europe, South America, Canada, Australia to some extent and even in the United States, with very little opposition. Even the opposition from France's anti-Islam groundswell, and some from other sources, the agenda of satan in using Islam is moving with horrible efficiency. Daniel's prophecy of the evil one overwhelming the saints of God is coming to pass before our very eyes. Blindness on the part of the secular world is somewhat understandable, but far more disheartening is the caving in of certain Christian leaders and followers (in the form of "Chrislam") and now I have read that a certain Jewish rabbi has said and made public that he is for Islam's spread because when it overtakes Christianity Christians will be forced to relinquish their sinful lifestyles! How very very blind can anyone be?! For more information on the Jewish rabbi bit see this: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/fa...i-praises-islamic-takeover-of-europe-123.html

 

[By Grace]

Your estimation of Islam coincides exactly with what I've seen, heard, read and learned from the Spirit of God. We have no disagreement there. It is the "why" of Islam that I have no concern with, either from the Quran or their actions. I see, I understand and I am adamant in bringing out to those who do not, will not or cannot see the violent driving force behind Islam is satan. It is clear as a cloudless sky to anyone who will look and see and be informed.

Thanks for the clarification.
I was originally wondering if you were one of those Pollyanna types. Guess not!

You and I are not in disagreement except that I do not believe for an instant that the "why" of the violent, deceitful, sinful nature of Islam is not absolutely clear. So why linger on it by studying the ins and outs of history? The Islamists love to dwell on the past. The Crusades are their big argument and use of those days is meant to produce guilt in Christians. Guilt stupefies, hinders, and shuts down action. I refuse it, in the Name of Jesus!

I was trying to show a perceived Pollyanna the facts, and learn so she would see things clearly. Also this would apply to any lurkers.

BRAVO for the spiritual warfare declaration!

It is the here and now in which we all live.

You seem to be firmly based in reality. The perceived Pollyanna I addressed was not.

The jealousy inherent in the writing of the Quran and the life of Mohammed is so old, it predates the Crusades by thousands of years. Ishmaelites versus Isaac's offspring, a clear background for Islam's hatred of Jews. What more need we know? Don't come to believe, grace, that I am opposed to your words, no, far from it. I am utterly opposed to the pandering to Islamists, as we see happening throughout Europe, South America, Canada, Australia to some extent and even in the United States, with very little opposition. Even the opposition from France's anti-Islam groundswell, and some from other sources, the agenda of satan in using Islam is moving with horrible efficiency. Daniel's prophecy of the evil one overwhelming the saints of God is coming to pass before our very eyes

.
This reminds me of a poster on another website. Do you post elsewhere under different names?

Blindness on the part of the secular world is somewhat understandable, but far more disheartening is the caving in of certain Christian leaders and followers (in the form of "Chrislam") and now I have read that a certain Jewish rabbi has said and made public that he is for Islam's spread because when it overtakes Christianity Christians will be forced to relinquish their sinful lifestyles! How very very blind can anyone be?! For more information on the Jewish rabbi bit see this: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/fa...i-praises-islamic-takeover-of-europe-123.html

Glad that we agree that we agree!

 

[tessiewebb]

Thanks for the clarification.
I was originally wondering if you were one of those Pollyanna types. Guess not!


I was trying to show a perceived Pollyanna the facts, and learn so she would see things clearly. Also this would apply to any lurkers.

BRAVO for the spiritual warfare declaration!

You seem to be firmly based in reality. The perceived Pollyanna I addressed was not.

.
This reminds me of a poster on another website. Do you post elsewhere under different names?



Glad that we agree that we agree!

Thanks for your reply, by grace, and no I don't post under other names, but I do post on one other Christian forum as tessiewebb. That is Bible Discussion. I understand your misunderstanding of my intent, LOL. One thing I'd like to encourage in your posts is more quotes from the Koran. It is difficult to read, for me at least, since so much of it contradicts the Bible so adamantly. It seems you have a pretty good understanding of it and access to its contents. War on, Sister! I am becoming weary of posting and posting and posting and having people who at least proclaim themselves Christians coming back with the "love your neighbor" type Scriptures. It's almost as if they think posting truth about the Islamic agenda is tantamount to "hating" people who are Muslims. When the watchmen on the walls of Israel sounded the alarm that an enemy approached, do you suppose they got the same reaction from the Israelis? I think not! Anyway, it is WONDERFUL to find another on this forum who has the eyes to see and ears to hear what the signs of the time are telling us!

 

[tessiewebb]

I think we minimize the anti-Christ applying the title to everything. Jesus did not sit with Matthew and the other sinners and accuse them of being anti-Christ. He engaged them and turned some of their hearts. Us acting in ignorance does more for the mission of the anti-Christ than anything else. The Islamist are committing evil acts, but blindly reacting to them does not serve our Lord. We are to evangelize, not destroy. I do not remember reading in scripture one instance of Jesus or Paul using violence or dominating another culture to spread the Word.

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What "destroying" or "violence" are you referring to? As far as anti-Christ being "applied to everything" and becoming meaningless, please! Evangelism is needed, true, and "engaging" the unbelievers, of course. That does not mean warnings do not need to be brought out to the attention of those who are not seeing what is coming. Shutting down the truth of the enemy's agenda is EXACTLY what satan is doing in the world even as we speak. Would you also have Christians silenced so that they can "evangelize"? How do you evangelize an agenda, anyway? Just saying.

 

[Kaliani]

It's almost as if they think posting truth about the Islamic agenda is tantamount to "hating" people who are Muslims.

It is rather obvious that this subject arouses great indignation in you.

Understandably.

For me personally, I don't believe your indignation has become hatred.

When I asked you what nations should do with their Muslims, you didn't propose a 'final solution' like the Nazis had for Jews. I think you ARE a good person.

Btw, By Grace is a man. :yes

 

[tessiewebb]

It is rather obvious that this subject arouses great indignation in you. Understandably. For me personally, I don't believe your indignation has become hatred. When I asked you what nations should do with their Muslims, you didn't propose a 'final solution' like the Nazis had for Jews. I think you ARE a good person. Btw, By Grace is a man. :yes

You are correct. The subject of Islamic takeover of nation after nation is alarming, but the pandering to the agenda by countries leaders is appalling! I do hate satan and his tactics. I hate snakes too. And flies. These creatures remind me of satan. People that are inhabited by demonic spirits come next, though my dislike of them is tempered with pity, for I know their end. I have felt indignation, as you put it, against those who are in agreement with the coming takeover by Islam, a false satanic religion. However , I have recently come to understand that my intense focus on uncovering and posting details of the Islamic takeovers and their agenda has caused me to swerve away from a more needful subject. That is, that for America at least, the admonition of 2 Chronicles 7:14 quickly take place. It is a wonder to me that America has not already been judged as was Israel when they turned away from God to idols. A glance at God's merciful forbearance brings me astonishment. He told Abraham that Sodom and Gomorrah's sins had stacked up to the heavens. How it is that His grace and mercy have prevailed for America this far is truly amazing. Yet it seems the limits of that mercy has been nearly reached as the Islamic movement is gaining footholds all across America, in the police forces, the government, the cities and towns, both large and small. I have asked Father if there is any way Daniel's prophecies of the end times could possibly be forestalled. But what is written is written. Daniel 8:24 and 12:7 clearly indicate "the holy people" will be destroyed and their power "shattered" when "the transgressors have reached their fullness". Sadly, it seems almost certain that transgression, at least in America, if not in the entire world, may have "reached it's fullness". Paul said he "desired that all men everywhere would pray". I believe it is past time for Americans who God calls "My people" to repent, turn from our (and our country's) wicked ways, and pray that God would heal our land!

That being said, I will pray and pray that others will heed the call to prayer as well. Yet, I do not believe at this time that means that I am not to also bring out reports of the marching takeover by Islam. We will see.

 

[tessiewebb]

If this doesn't prove the "peaceful religion" is anything but, nothing can prove it to you. Makes your blood boil and heart sad all at the same time. Notice the cop who "corrects" the Christians use of a megaphone is nowhere to be seen when the rock, bottle, egg and other debris throwing starts! Where is the LAW and the LEO's when you need them? Absent!

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/jamie-glazov/american-muslims-stone-christians-in-dearborn-michigan/

 

[tessiewebb]

"In case you haven't noticed, thousands -- perhaps millions -- of Christians living in Muslim nations are being prosecuted, even brutally murdered. For example, in Nigeria in 2011, the Muslim extremist group Boko Haram killed 510 Christians and destroyed more than 350 churches using guns, gasoline bombs, and even machetes, all the while shouting "Allahu akbar" ("God is great"). On Christmas Day alone they slaughtered 42 Catholics. Similar attacks have occurred in Iraq (our "ally"), where since 2003 more than 900 Iraqi Christians have died from terrorist attacks in Baghdad alone while half of all Iraqi Christians have fled the country (see here and here)....."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/...#ixzz2Gjkl0x7U

While Muslims (and some Islamophiles) declare loudly that anyone who writes or speaks "negative" information about Islam is Islamophobic, or politically incorrect haters, Christians and the world in general ignore the persecution of Christians across the globe.

For more on Islam's persecution of Christians: http://www.barenakedislam.com/2012/1...heir-religion/

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Funny you should bring this up, Sinthesis, since Heb tells us exactly what we are to fear, that is, that anyone should not enter His rest. As for the tone of your question, it seems you are implying we should not confront the Islamists. That too is sand hiding. God NEVER told us to hide from enemies.

And that is exactly what many are doing; it's like the kid with a boogieman under his bed, "if I just don't look and if I stay under cover, he won't get me". Well, Sweden, France, England and other countries have taken that simpering approach and they are very, very close to being Islamic countries under the thumb of the imams and sharia law. Fear is not a motivator to action in most cases, action is usually taken in spite of fears. God said His people perish for lack of knowledge and that is now the case in many parts of the world and soon will be in our faces in America if we don't take action based on the God given KNOWLEDGE that Islam is evil, NOT out of fear.

What do you propose that we do about it?

 

[tessiewebb]

What do you propose that we do about it?

Become knowledgeable about the Islamic agenda and sound the alarm in any way we can. Oppose legislation that attempts to establish sharia laws as being supreme to the nations' laws where Muslims are attempting to take over. Become knowledgeable about the world events outside of our own countries. Contact legislators and let them know sharia law is not for non-Muslims. Object to the mistreatment of Christians by Muslims. Publish in any way possible the truth about the so-called "peaceful religion". Go on Islamic forums and ask questions, anything about Islam and it's actions, and watch what kind of treatment/replies you get, then publish those. Expose lies and liars in anyway possible. Need I go on?

 

[Davies]

Hi tessiewebb,

I might include evangelize Muslims, pray for Muslims, bless those who curse you, and return good for evil. I think we should what you said as well.

- Davies

 

[tessiewebb]

I have attempted via this thread to alert Christians to the dangers of doing nothing to thwart Islamic efforts to take over various countries and promote their sharia laws wherever they can. The responses (or lack thereof) are disheartening to say the least. Perhaps this will shake up the unalarmed:

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/...-behaving-badly-when-they-dont-get-their-way/

WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC PHOTOS INCLUDED

 

[Kaliani]

The people on that comments section are so shaken up, the admin is complaining of constantly having to delete some members' comments promoting genocide targetted at Muslims.

 

[tessiewebb]

The people on that comments section are so shaken up, the admin is complaining of constantly having to delete some members' comments promoting genocide targetted at Muslims.

Well, it appears not many here are "shaken up". As far as genocide targeting Muslims, that is, of course, not Christian and the people who respond to BNI postings are not either, for the most part. However, since the Islamic agenda is genocide for anyone who is not Muslim, can't say I really blame the respondents for their anger. Christians need to respond to those posts with appeals for realistic approaches such as political action and other resistance to the Islamization of their countries. and soon! We could undo the headway Muslims have made in our countries if only Christians would get together on this issue.