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It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!
- Thread starter tessiewebb
- Start date
Actually, yes. I love the Muslims enough to tell them the truth. If I did not love them, and other cultists, I would not waste my time blogging.
Instead of "suspecting", perhaps you could look in a dictionary. Barring that, you could click on the hyper link HERE. Then you will learn the meaning of the suffix. It is a simple process.
No one can state that you lack imagination! A disagreement/correction does not constitute an insult. there are too many other sites on the Internet where that is an automatic assumption
Again, your imagination needs to be reigned in. It is NOT my intention to engage in retaliatory insults, or to give them out. If anyone feels that I have insulted them, that person needs to confront me about it. OTOH it is not an insult to give the correct understanding of a misapplied word.
Insult away, if you wish. That is your choice, just as it is my choice to report an insult.
Emotionally-laden words there!
That far exceeds the intent and extent of the correction from a dictionary.
Just because you fail to look something up in the dictionary, and fail to understand the meaning of a word that does not give you the authority to call me a liar, the meaning of "disingenuous", AND THAT IS AN INSULT!
So it's clear that when YOU said I was being 'disingenuous' YOU meant to insult ME.
Oh dear.
No matter. I forgive you.
By Grace, why do you assume that I am a Muslim?
I most certainly am NOT nor have I ever been nor even claimed to be a Muslim.
So yes, you're very correct, a lot of what I say is 'not very Muslim of me' at all.
The first post of yours called your god allah. Then you went off to seemingly defend Islam.
if you are a Christian, but call the God of the Bible allah, that is an entirely different matter. I could post my reasons why I disagree (if that is the case) but since we will never reconcile that, it is best left alone. I do not want to engage in fruitless and troubling unnecessary discussions.
So it's clear that when YOU said I was being 'disingenuous' YOU meant to insult ME.
Oh dear.
No matter. I forgive you.
Please refer back to post #147, where I wrote this: Superficial comparisons such as yours above are disingenuous. Your comparisons, and NOT YOUR PERSON were disingenuous. because I believed you were Muslim, and I know that the Mormons are fond of making false comparisons, I thought you were doing likewise.
ALSO please do not add to what I post to another poster. He was calling me disingenuous, and THAT was the insult to which I referred.
I gotta go to bed, my allergies are killing me. We'll talk tomorrow.
The Unbeliever
Member
I know what the word islamophile means and I was not the first to use it. Perhaps you have mistaken me for someone else.Just because you fail to look something up in the dictionary, and fail to understand the meaning of a word that does not give you the authority to call me a liar, the meaning of "disingenuous", AND THAT IS AN INSULT!
YOU were the one who first used the term, and then called me one without knowing its meaning. That is plain silliness.
How is loving Muslims enough to tell them the truth being an Islamophile? You yourself associated the word with persons who defended Islam. This is the disingenuousness that was spoken of earlier. You cast what you believe are recriminations only to disavow them when confronted, but even in your statements of disavowal you continue to perpetuate the very same insult you deny. And now you wish to play with words. Your feigned outrage only perpetuates your disingenuousness.
That was my fault, I sought to return some of your veiled condescension. I will be clear now. I already know what Islamophile means and knew that it did not properly apply to you. Rather, I sought to draw attention to your own falseness by a falseness of my own. But your ability to perpetrate such exceeds my own capacity so I will desist. In a spirit of generosity, I will assume you are simply unaware of the condescension your words so often convey. Your feigned helpfulness such as the above quote is an excellent example as it presumes a lack of intelligence in the reader that would invariably be found insulting.
You defined Islamophile in such a way that no one would wish to have the label applied to them. That is an insult.
They have confronted you about it. And your false efforts at correction have simply been the latest vehicle for your insults.
I don't believe it would benefit you to report this discussion. It has not reflected well of you so far.
I have no idea why you said that. My words were a matter of simple logic, not emotion. You are committing a fallacy called affirming the consequent when you accused Kaliani of being an Islamophile. Allow me to lay out the argument and perhaps you will understand my response:
"If I am an Islamophile, then I will defend Islam"
There are two valid arguments that can be made from this statement. The first is modus ponens. In this case, your second premise will involve the assertion that I am indeed an islamophile and from that will come the conclusion that I will defend Islam. The second is modus tollens, in which case the second premise will deny that I defend Islam and so conclude that I am not an Islamophile. But what you seem to be doing is asserting a third argument for your second premise, namely that I am defending Islam, and drawing from this the conclusion that I am an Islamophile. This is the fallacy of asserting the consequent. My point was that just because someone defends Islam against criticism does not mean that there therefore are a supporter of Islam.
You assume so much, and so much of it is in error
Correction is NOT condescension Instead it is an effort to have a common basis for communication
Can I apply it to you? is NOT a rhetorical question, but a veiled threat of an ad homineum because it was directed at me, and not to the words of my post. There is a big difference in the two. I ONLY used it to attack the words of the post, but not the person.
How is loving Muslims enough to tell them the truth being an Islamophile? You yourself associated the word with persons who defended Islam. This is the disingenuousness that was spoken of earlier. It is NOT wrong to tell a blind person that there is a big cliff at the end of the street on which he travels. To assume otherwise is to be a participant in the death of the person when he falls.
You defined Islamophile in such a way that no one would wish to have the label applied to them. I did not define anything. The dictionary defined it, and I did a cut-and-paste. Therefore your annoyance at me is not directed properly
Again, I have no idea of what you rant about when you state that no one would wish to have the label applied to them. You asked a direct question, and I gave you a direct answer. It is not my fault that you do not like the answer I gave to your question
They have confronted you about it. Who is "they"?
And your false efforts at correction have simply been the latest vehicle for your insults. Please reread the first lines of this post.
Since this line of responding is not bearing fruit, and has degenerated into something that does not bring honor to Jesus Christ, we are at a crossroad. To continue on the same path is unproductive, so we must agree to turn right or left if we are to continue.
Is your purpose here to defend Islam? If it is so, then I urge you to refer back to my post # 147 and then defend some of the things I quoted from the Hadith:
The other option at the crossroad is to discuss your personal belief system that if I recall properly, you described as "theism". Naturally that would involve your laying out your beliefs first, and then to explain the reasons behind your beliefs. That is the way that debate/discussion works. In this case, yours is the affirmative position.
It is your choice, but it is also my choice to no longer go down a road of misunderstanding and perceptions of personal attacks. That is NOT a slap at you; it is the nature of the Internet. The inflections and facial gestures we give on a regular basis to facilitate communication are sadly missing on this discussion board.
Quo vadis, Unbeliever? Where are we going?
Correction is NOT condescension Instead it is an effort to have a common basis for communication
Can I apply it to you? is NOT a rhetorical question, but a veiled threat of an ad homineum because it was directed at me, and not to the words of my post. There is a big difference in the two. I ONLY used it to attack the words of the post, but not the person.
How is loving Muslims enough to tell them the truth being an Islamophile? You yourself associated the word with persons who defended Islam. This is the disingenuousness that was spoken of earlier. It is NOT wrong to tell a blind person that there is a big cliff at the end of the street on which he travels. To assume otherwise is to be a participant in the death of the person when he falls.
You defined Islamophile in such a way that no one would wish to have the label applied to them. I did not define anything. The dictionary defined it, and I did a cut-and-paste. Therefore your annoyance at me is not directed properly
Again, I have no idea of what you rant about when you state that no one would wish to have the label applied to them. You asked a direct question, and I gave you a direct answer. It is not my fault that you do not like the answer I gave to your question
They have confronted you about it. Who is "they"?
And your false efforts at correction have simply been the latest vehicle for your insults. Please reread the first lines of this post.
Since this line of responding is not bearing fruit, and has degenerated into something that does not bring honor to Jesus Christ, we are at a crossroad. To continue on the same path is unproductive, so we must agree to turn right or left if we are to continue.
Is your purpose here to defend Islam? If it is so, then I urge you to refer back to my post # 147 and then defend some of the things I quoted from the Hadith:
By doing that, we will have a concrete basis for discussion. That is a turn in one direction.
The other option at the crossroad is to discuss your personal belief system that if I recall properly, you described as "theism". Naturally that would involve your laying out your beliefs first, and then to explain the reasons behind your beliefs. That is the way that debate/discussion works. In this case, yours is the affirmative position.
It is your choice, but it is also my choice to no longer go down a road of misunderstanding and perceptions of personal attacks. That is NOT a slap at you; it is the nature of the Internet. The inflections and facial gestures we give on a regular basis to facilitate communication are sadly missing on this discussion board.
Quo vadis, Unbeliever? Where are we going?
The Unbeliever
Member
Re: You assume so much, and so much of it is in error
I would like to add that you seem to have ignored the one substantive point I had made in my previous post, discussing the logic of attributing Islamophilia to someone defending Islam against perceived wrongful criticisms. That also might be an interesting avenue for dialogue.
I did respond to that post here: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=46078&p=717179&viewfull=1#post717179
My personal beliefs are more like "atheism". Perhaps Kaliani is a theist, I'm not sure.
I think it would be good for you to recognize your own contribution to this situation, but I also agree that it would be conducive to good discussion if it be set aside. I will bring it up no more.
I would like to add that you seem to have ignored the one substantive point I had made in my previous post, discussing the logic of attributing Islamophilia to someone defending Islam against perceived wrongful criticisms. That also might be an interesting avenue for dialogue.
Me.
I confronted you about this 'Islamophile' business.
And you still haven't convinced me that it isn't a slur. So let it be known that I will take it as an insult to refer to me as an 'Islamophile'. Thank you.
If we were take "Islamophile" strictly by it's definition, then, no, it isn't a slur. However, as it was first used in this thread, it most certainly was intended as an insult.
Now that that's out of the way, back to topic and no more personal insults please.
Now that that's out of the way, back to topic and no more personal insults please.
tessiewebb
Member
totopicHere's what the UN has done: http://blog.unwatch.org/United Nations elects genocidal Muslim leader of Sudan to head human rights commission
This is who he is: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...hir/index.html
"Omar Hassan al-Bashir has been vilified in the West and blamed over the years for cozying up to Osama bin Laden, abusing human rights and unleashing death squads in Darfur, the war-racked region of western Sudan. In 2010, he was charged by the International Criminal Court with crimes against humanity.
He has stayed in power, appealing to national pride and causing deep-seated fears that the nation could tumble into Somalia-like chaos if he were removed. Popular among the city-dwelling elite of Khartoum, he handily won the country’s first multiparty election in more than 20 years in April 2010...."
tessiewebb
Member
Wasn't intended as an insult but as a categorization of those who still believe Islam is a "peaceful religion" and who wish to defend it.
tessiewebb
Member
Yes, yes, possibly, and definition: Lover/protector of all things Islam
Re: You assume so much, and so much of it is in error
You just said I will bring it up no more but you do. Then you are creating an issue where none exists here defending Islam against perceived wrongful criticisms. So what is your choice in the matter? Clearly I explained that I do not wish to proceed further along the path we are on because it has become caustic and counter productive, so I offered a crossroad to go through. Left turn or right turn?
Actually, you IGNORED what I posted
So? Please present them for discussion.
My "contribution" was to make a correct assessment of the suffix -phile. But if that seems problematic, we must let that pass
You just said I will bring it up no more but you do. Then you are creating an issue where none exists here defending Islam against perceived wrongful criticisms. So what is your choice in the matter? Clearly I explained that I do not wish to proceed further along the path we are on because it has become caustic and counter productive, so I offered a crossroad to go through. Left turn or right turn?
The Unbeliever
Member
The Unbeliever
Member
Re: You assume so much, and so much of it is in error
No, I answered it. I don't know how my answer can be construed as "ignored", but I did not ignore it. Perhaps I did not answer it the way you wished, but that is not the same as ignoring it.
You want me to present my views on atheism? I'm not sure I'm understanding your request.
Like I said, I will let it pass as you have demonstrated the futility of seeking to draw your attention to your own culpability.
I said I would not bring up your personal culpability in poisoning the tone of this discussion, and I will remain true to this. But as for defending Islam against what I perceive to be wrongful criticisms, that is not a problem since it bears directly upon the subject of discussion for this thread. I responded to your offer and continued with the subject of the thread. I did this by offering a link to my response as well as offering a logical argument for the distinction between defending Islam and Islamophilia, which I perceive is also a significant aspect of this discussion.
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Since when is a singular woman referred to in the plural? Yes, I know that you did not make that comment, but I could not resist. Actually the devil made me do it!
I did refer to myself as an "islamophile" due to my love for all cultists caught up in their false religion because I want to tell them the truth in a positive manner. I do not recall EVER hurling that at you or anyone as an insult; please demonstrate to me exactly where and how I did that. I abhor ad homs because they demean both the person targeted and the person giving the insult.
As to me "convincing you" of anything, that is impossible. It is your decision to accept or reject what is posted; all I did was to present the etymology of that suffix. It is a derivative of φιλέω and it means "love". English people pronounce it as Phila- such as in the city of my birth, Philadelphia. It is also used to express the love of knowledge, or study, such as in "philosophy".
From Strong's Bible Concordance we learn this word has
25 occurrences; AV translates as “love†22 times, and “kiss†three times.
1 to love.
And while I am not about to kiss you (2A definition) you, I hope that you can understand that it is a very positive thing. 1 to love.
1a to approve of.
1b to like.
1c sanction.
1d to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend.
2 to show signs of love. 1b to like.
1c sanction.
1d to treat affectionately or kindly, to welcome, befriend.
2a to kiss.
3 to be fond of doing.
3a be wont, use to do.
As I said to Unbeliever, this is getting nowhere. Therefore, I request that we go another direction.
The Unbeliever
Member
That doesn't even fit the definition given by people who agree with you: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=46078&p=717622&viewfull=1#post717622
What is so difficult in these two parts of my posts?
You just said I will bring it up no more but you do. Then you are creating an issue where none exists here defending Islam against perceived wrongful criticisms. So what is your choice in the matter? Clearly I explained that I do not wish to proceed further along the path we are on because it has become caustic and counter productive, so I offered a crossroad to go through. Left turn or right turn?
and
As I said to Unbeliever, this is getting nowhere. Therefore, I request that we go another direction.
Since I made it abundantly clear that I do not wish to go further due to the caustic condition of this thread, I have to conclude that you are deliberately ignoring my request or else trying to provoke me into responding. and
As I said to Unbeliever, this is getting nowhere. Therefore, I request that we go another direction.
Therefore, I no longer subscribe to this thread.