What else is new?
That is the same sort of atrocities which sparked the Crusades.. Of course the Christians were barbaric, and were to blame.
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!
- Thread starter tessiewebb
- Start date
What else is new?
That is the same sort of atrocities which sparked the Crusades.. Of course the Christians were barbaric, and were to blame.
tessiewebb
Member
What else is new?
That is the same sort of atrocities which sparked the Crusades.. Of course the Christians were barbaric, and were to blame.
This is old news, By Grace, as you know. No one living today had part in the Crusades. It is even doubtful that the Crusaders were bonafide Christians since nowhere in the NT are we told/allowed/inspired to commit atrocities. This is now, this is happening all over the world and to think or assume or insinuate that the Crusades are responsible for the Muslim attacks on Christians today is to give credence to their barbaric behavior in THIS century. I've heard this about the Crusades from Jihadists and Christians alike, that they are the cause of Muslim anger today. I say Bah, Humbug! Their religion is violent, atrocious, hateful and demonic. End of story.
That last comment was supposed to be sarcastic, not factual. That is why I used the specific emoticon.
I was stating that the methods of conversion to islam in the years of the Crusades are the same as we see in the pictures. Those who practice such atrocities and desecrate the human body through beheading are actually attempting to deface the unique image of God in humans. That is proof that the religion of islam is part and parcel inspired by and ruled by Satan. Nor do I have any respect for their so-called prophet who is actually a pedophile according the accounts of Aisha. Telling others the truth about the horrible nature if islam is like knocking your head against a brick wall if they can not or will not look at objective facts.
For a look at a satirical look at islam, go HERE. I remember when I first read the Sunday comic strip thinking how clever it was, and how many people would get the message.
Sorry for any confusion
joseph
Member
That maybe old news, but the interaction of the so called Christian states with the Arab/Ottoman/Muslim world from the 17th century to the 21st century are a major reason for the current clash. Generations of radical Muslims have been taught to hate the West. It will take generations for this to change. Should we defend ourselves? Of course. Should we pretend our corporate & political forefathers were innocent in their interactions with the East? No. Like it or not, God is the sole judge of all his people and creation, and not us. We can only evangelize, forgive, and act in accordance with the teachings of Jesus. The Lord never told us to subjugate non-Christians.
Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2
Davies
Member
Good morning tessiewebb,
I have to agree with you regarding the Crusades. Although we can admit there were atrocities made by the Crusaders, we should remember it just wasn't about Jerusalem. The Qur'an following Muslims were overtaking large parts of Europe, so to talk about the atrocities as motivation for Muslims today is naive. If we want to understand the motivation for Muslims today, we have to go back to the same source they used yesterday, the Qur'an.
- Davies
I have to agree with you regarding the Crusades. Although we can admit there were atrocities made by the Crusaders, we should remember it just wasn't about Jerusalem. The Qur'an following Muslims were overtaking large parts of Europe, so to talk about the atrocities as motivation for Muslims today is naive. If we want to understand the motivation for Muslims today, we have to go back to the same source they used yesterday, the Qur'an.
- Davies
tessiewebb
Member
Absolutely, and thank you for saying so.
tessiewebb
Member
Most assuredly, God has not told us to subjugate non-Christians, and certainly atrocities have been committed by every member of the human race, if only in turning away from our God. I've heard no mention of anyone, Christian or non-Christian, speak of subjugation of Muslims. To defend oneself and one's property from attackers is not subjugation OF them but defense FROM them. If there is no attacker there is no need of defense. Muslims the world over, and not just the "radicals" as it is portrayed by the media and Islamophiles of all stripes, are attacking Christians and Jews particularly because of their Muslim religion and its teachers. But it does not stop there. Their attack is upon ALL who do not adhere to their "god" and "prophet"'s teachings. The ones who act in agreement with Islam for political gain will also be attacked when they are no longer useful tools for the Islamists because they are agnostics, atheists, decadent in the eyes of the Islamists and so make themselves enemies of "allah".
It does not matter about who did what to whom in history anymore because this is a movement of today, now, and has been for more years than most have been aware of their agenda. You say we can ONLY evangelize, we can forgive, we can act in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, and no doubt all of that is correct and Godly. However, to be blinded to the fact that the enemy is at our doors is foolishness of a magnitude not to be ignored.
The more aware we are of the enemy and his tactics, for most assuredly the enemy of ALL mankind is behind the Muslim religion, the more we are resisting evil. And THAT, joseph, is ALSO according to the teachings of the New Testament spoken by the prophets of Jesus.
Walking Eagle
Member
Last edited by a moderator:
turnorburn
Member
What is Islam? What Do Muslims Believe?
An overview of the Islamic religion
***PREFACE***
At the outset of this article, I want to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in Muslim countries who would love to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. They want to know the peace and love of Christ. They live in the midst of terror, the terror of Sharia law. Many of them have heard the whispers of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and want to know more, but it is hard to find information and one certainly does not ask around. Some are being saved, praise the Lord, by the blood of Jesus. But their salvation has come at a tremendous cost to themselves, sometimes their very lives. May God help the Muslim people and may God's people pray for them and care about them. If any Muslims viewing this page want to know how to have eternal life, please visit our How to Get to Heaven page or index page where there is a letter for you. Time is short, hell is real and today is the day of salvation--we are not promised tomorrow.
This page is a work in progress. In creating this page on Islam some years ago, at that time I drew very heavily from Robert Morey's book on this subject, "The Islamic Invasion: Confronting the World's Fastest Growing Religion" (published by Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, OR, 1992). I gleaned other information from my dealings with Muslims and from the internet. I am now revisiting this page and updating it at convenient seasons with titles, relative links, content, etc....
Strange, strange tenets Muhammad versus Jesus Black Muslim Movement The Quran vs. the Bible
Marriage and Women Allah vs. God Militant and murderous aspects The Genies
***A DOUBLE STANDARD***
Muslims strongly critize Christians and say that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Son of God (in this they do greatly err, for the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Saviour of the world, and the ONLY means by which a man can be saved), YET they take personal offense at any criticism of Islam. They have tracts and apologetics against "Christianity," but they do not want anyone to examine their beliefs. In Muslim countries, any criticism of Muhammad or the Quran is viewed as a criminal offense punishable by death. Christians are considered infidels according to the Islamic religion. The Quran teaches that infidels convert to Islam or die. Read the section on this page entitled, "Why Muslims are so violent" for more information.
Mosques are popping up all over America, but how many churches are popping up in Muslim countries? How many Christians in the Sudan were killed at the hands of Muslims? How about in other parts of the world where Islam prevails? A search on the term, "Islam" at Voice of the Martyrs (www.persecution.com ) will give a sampling of stories illustrating the treatment of Christians in Muslim countries. Why are they freely allowed in "western countries" and allowed to build mosques and preach overthrow? Treasonous politicians (American and otherwise) have sold their peoples down the river and opened their borders to their nation's enemies (not just Islam). See, "Islam: What the West Needs to Know." (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781#) [Aside: Why have the governments of the world (not just America) turned on their own people? One needs to know THE MOTHER in order to understand what is happening. But she is a mystery (MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, Rev 17:5), she has to be discovered to the Christian. None of the wicked shall understand (Dan 12:10). Our Deception Series, written for Christians, gives insight into what is happening into the world today.]
***SHARIA LAW***
Islam can have different faces. Islam in America is ostensibly much different from Islam in the Middle East. You may hear, "they are quiet, hard working people". That may be true; however, they are also in the minority and we still have police, guns, the national guard, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, and nuclear weapons. So yes, they may seem quiet enough, but they are not in power and are unable to establish their Muslim Sharia law. Do an internet search on "horrors of Sharia law" and see what you get. Excerpt #1--
Desperate stakes for women under Sharia
Examiner Editorial
August 10, 2010
The cover of the Aug. 9 issue of Time Magazine shows a photo of Aisha, an 18-year-old Afghan woman whose nose and ears were cut off in 2009 under orders from a local Taliban commander as punishment for fleeing her husband's home. (Jodi Bieber, Institute for Time Magaizne/AP)
It is impossible to view Time magazine's cover photograph of Aisha, an 18-year-old Afghan girl whose nose and ears were severed by her husband and brother-in-law on the order of a Taliban commander, without shuddering in recoil. Her "crime" was nothing more than fleeing the...home of in-laws who had beaten and enslaved her. That Aisha's only recourse in the face of such abuse was to run and hide is testimony to the reality that, in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world that Sharia law prevails, women are at best second-class citizens. Sharia is the vehicle by which the most oppressive tenets of extreme Islamic religion become the civil law of any society on which it is imposed. In many such places, daily life for women and girls remains today much as it was a millennium ago -- the unrelieved tedium, oppression and drudgery of chattel...
I once read that in one Muslim prison, 70% of the women in the prison were actually rape victims--under Sharia law, a rape victim is often considered an adultress. Excerpt #2--
On October 30, 2008, the United Nations condemned the stoning to death of Aisha Duhulowa, a 13-year-old girl who had been gang-raped and then sentenced to death by a Sharia court for fornication (Zina). She was screaming and begging for mercy, but when some family members attempted to intervene, shots were fired by the Islamic militia and a baby was killed.
Local Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.[1] Similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.[2] Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.[3] You might think that such horrific barbarity cannot be the real Sharia law; that it is a misapplication of the law by ignorant clergy. Sadly, neither is true...
[Aside: Unfortunately, the visible church is America (and much of the world) is fallen, worldly, materialistic, unholy, and apostate (I do not know of one good church). I believe that some Americans convert to Islam because they think that it is peaceful. People who are seeking peace and truth are looking in all sorts of directions in order to find it, but there is only one truth. Every religion is not right--they all contradict each other. There may be thousands of religions but there is only one true God. Those that want to know God may wish to see our article, "How to Get to Heaven".]
tob
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam.htm
An overview of the Islamic religion
***PREFACE***
At the outset of this article, I want to acknowledge that there are many Muslims in Muslim countries who would love to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. They want to know the peace and love of Christ. They live in the midst of terror, the terror of Sharia law. Many of them have heard the whispers of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and want to know more, but it is hard to find information and one certainly does not ask around. Some are being saved, praise the Lord, by the blood of Jesus. But their salvation has come at a tremendous cost to themselves, sometimes their very lives. May God help the Muslim people and may God's people pray for them and care about them. If any Muslims viewing this page want to know how to have eternal life, please visit our How to Get to Heaven page or index page where there is a letter for you. Time is short, hell is real and today is the day of salvation--we are not promised tomorrow.
This page is a work in progress. In creating this page on Islam some years ago, at that time I drew very heavily from Robert Morey's book on this subject, "The Islamic Invasion: Confronting the World's Fastest Growing Religion" (published by Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, OR, 1992). I gleaned other information from my dealings with Muslims and from the internet. I am now revisiting this page and updating it at convenient seasons with titles, relative links, content, etc....
Strange, strange tenets Muhammad versus Jesus Black Muslim Movement The Quran vs. the Bible
Marriage and Women Allah vs. God Militant and murderous aspects The Genies
***A DOUBLE STANDARD***
Muslims strongly critize Christians and say that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Son of God (in this they do greatly err, for the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Saviour of the world, and the ONLY means by which a man can be saved), YET they take personal offense at any criticism of Islam. They have tracts and apologetics against "Christianity," but they do not want anyone to examine their beliefs. In Muslim countries, any criticism of Muhammad or the Quran is viewed as a criminal offense punishable by death. Christians are considered infidels according to the Islamic religion. The Quran teaches that infidels convert to Islam or die. Read the section on this page entitled, "Why Muslims are so violent" for more information.
Mosques are popping up all over America, but how many churches are popping up in Muslim countries? How many Christians in the Sudan were killed at the hands of Muslims? How about in other parts of the world where Islam prevails? A search on the term, "Islam" at Voice of the Martyrs (www.persecution.com ) will give a sampling of stories illustrating the treatment of Christians in Muslim countries. Why are they freely allowed in "western countries" and allowed to build mosques and preach overthrow? Treasonous politicians (American and otherwise) have sold their peoples down the river and opened their borders to their nation's enemies (not just Islam). See, "Islam: What the West Needs to Know." (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781#) [Aside: Why have the governments of the world (not just America) turned on their own people? One needs to know THE MOTHER in order to understand what is happening. But she is a mystery (MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, Rev 17:5), she has to be discovered to the Christian. None of the wicked shall understand (Dan 12:10). Our Deception Series, written for Christians, gives insight into what is happening into the world today.]
***SHARIA LAW***
Islam can have different faces. Islam in America is ostensibly much different from Islam in the Middle East. You may hear, "they are quiet, hard working people". That may be true; however, they are also in the minority and we still have police, guns, the national guard, the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, and nuclear weapons. So yes, they may seem quiet enough, but they are not in power and are unable to establish their Muslim Sharia law. Do an internet search on "horrors of Sharia law" and see what you get. Excerpt #1--
Desperate stakes for women under Sharia
Examiner Editorial
August 10, 2010
The cover of the Aug. 9 issue of Time Magazine shows a photo of Aisha, an 18-year-old Afghan woman whose nose and ears were cut off in 2009 under orders from a local Taliban commander as punishment for fleeing her husband's home. (Jodi Bieber, Institute for Time Magaizne/AP)
It is impossible to view Time magazine's cover photograph of Aisha, an 18-year-old Afghan girl whose nose and ears were severed by her husband and brother-in-law on the order of a Taliban commander, without shuddering in recoil. Her "crime" was nothing more than fleeing the...home of in-laws who had beaten and enslaved her. That Aisha's only recourse in the face of such abuse was to run and hide is testimony to the reality that, in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world that Sharia law prevails, women are at best second-class citizens. Sharia is the vehicle by which the most oppressive tenets of extreme Islamic religion become the civil law of any society on which it is imposed. In many such places, daily life for women and girls remains today much as it was a millennium ago -- the unrelieved tedium, oppression and drudgery of chattel...
I once read that in one Muslim prison, 70% of the women in the prison were actually rape victims--under Sharia law, a rape victim is often considered an adultress. Excerpt #2--
On October 30, 2008, the United Nations condemned the stoning to death of Aisha Duhulowa, a 13-year-old girl who had been gang-raped and then sentenced to death by a Sharia court for fornication (Zina). She was screaming and begging for mercy, but when some family members attempted to intervene, shots were fired by the Islamic militia and a baby was killed.
Local Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.[1] Similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.[2] Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.[3] You might think that such horrific barbarity cannot be the real Sharia law; that it is a misapplication of the law by ignorant clergy. Sadly, neither is true...
[Aside: Unfortunately, the visible church is America (and much of the world) is fallen, worldly, materialistic, unholy, and apostate (I do not know of one good church). I believe that some Americans convert to Islam because they think that it is peaceful. People who are seeking peace and truth are looking in all sorts of directions in order to find it, but there is only one truth. Every religion is not right--they all contradict each other. There may be thousands of religions but there is only one true God. Those that want to know God may wish to see our article, "How to Get to Heaven".]
tob
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam.htm
tessiewebb
Member
Thank you, turnorburn, for this timely and helpful article.
tessiewebb
Member
J
justpassingby
Guest
You folks are a bit confused. Muslims do not hate Christians and never did. But there are folks that do and that be Raymie
Raymie post #112
http://notthetalk.com/discussion/list/3724?start=111
"god doesn't exist. the christians hate the jews because their religion teaches them they killed jesus. also, the jews stubbornly reject jesus as messiah. antisemitism comes from christianity, nowhere else. the bible is a myth which tries to explain whythe jews aren't rulers of the world, even though their god created everything. you can't see any of this because you have an agenda. hitler picked up antisemitism from christianity, as did the muslims. in the muslims' case, it was exacerbated by the creation of Israel"
Raymie post #112
http://notthetalk.com/discussion/list/3724?start=111
"god doesn't exist. the christians hate the jews because their religion teaches them they killed jesus. also, the jews stubbornly reject jesus as messiah. antisemitism comes from christianity, nowhere else. the bible is a myth which tries to explain whythe jews aren't rulers of the world, even though their god created everything. you can't see any of this because you have an agenda. hitler picked up antisemitism from christianity, as did the muslims. in the muslims' case, it was exacerbated by the creation of Israel"
Last edited by a moderator:
J
justpassingby
Guest
Does anyone here agree or disagree with above views expressed by Raymie?
J
justpassingby
Guest
The term "hate" is overused and abused. Few folks really hate and the use of the term should be kept to a minimum if ever used at all. The term should not even be a part of one's vocabulary.
just my opinion
jasoncran
Member
you might be shocked the poster that said that is a jew. that is something that sounds like my jewish family would say,but some would say that islam has always been hateful.
If these statements, AND their implications are not true, will you then denounce them?
Qur'an 45.19: Surely they shall not avail you in the least against Allah; and surely the unjust are friends of each other, and Allah is the guardian of those who guard (against evil).[FONT="][1][/FONT]
Qur'an 3:79 Who so desires any other religion than Islam, that religion shall never be accepted from him, and in the next world he shall be among the lost. [FONT="][2][/FONT]
[FONT="]Whosoever craves other than Islam for a religion, it shall surely not be accepted from him, and he shall, in the next world, be of those who lose.’ [/FONT]
Qur’an 3:142 O you who have believed! If you obey the infidels, they will cause you to turn upon your heels, and you will fall back into perdition.[FONT="][3][/FONT]
O ye who believe, if ye obey those who misbelieve, they will turn you back upon your heels, and ye will retreat the losers.[4]
Qur’an 9:29 Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth.[1]
[FONT="]Fight those who believe not in God and in the last day, and who forbid not what God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who do not practice the religion of truth from amongst those to whom the Book has been brought, until they pay the tribute by their hands and be as little ones.[FONT="][2][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT="][1][/FONT] http://www.johnworldpeace.com/koran2.html
[FONT="][2][/FONT] http://i-cias.com/e.o/texts/koran/koran009.htm
[FONT="][1][/FONT] http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/ot...und&offset=811919&tag=Koran.045&query=friends
[FONT="][2][/FONT] http://www.johnworldpeace.com/koran2.html
[FONT="][3][/FONT] http://www.johnworldpeace.com/koran2.html
[FONT="][4][/FONT] http://i-cias.com/e.o/texts/koran/koran003.htm
Last edited by a moderator:
tessiewebb
Member
If you are told by your religion to kill someone wherever you find them, does that mean you hate them? Do you read the Quran? If you say some are descended from apes and pigs, does that mean you like them? Where do you get this stuff? Plus why are you quoting someone on such an ugly distorted bunch of balogna?
tessiewebb
Member
"Reports of Christian persecution by Muslims around the world during the month of February include (but are not limited to) the following accounts. They are listed by form of persecution, and in country alphabetical order, not necessarily according to severity: "
You can read the entire article here:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/36...-february-2013
"In Egypt the indigenous Christian faith is once more facing another bleak future because of ongoing Islamization. Despite this, and the fact that secular forces face being crushed by the current government of Egypt; the United States, the European Union and Gulf nations are all working together in order to help the Muslim Brotherhood survive financially. Simply put, Christian blood isn't "only cheap" it doesn't even enter the radar to any significant degree." You can read more here: http://www.aina.org/news/20130427122020.htm
"A mass exodus of Christians is currently underway. Millions of Christians are being displaced from one end of the Islamic world to the other.
We are reliving the true history of how the Islamic world, much of which prior to the Islamic conquests was almost entirely Christian, came into being."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...#ixzz2UIzh2b6L
So what makes any one in any country believe this religion is a peaceful, neighborly one? If you are Christian, or Jew or any religion but Islam for that matter, you are a target. If you are atheist, well, do you think that means you are immune to their persecution? Do you enjoy freedom of religion, speech, and life style? Do you believe you are immune because you live in America or some other country that is not yet enforcing sharia law and/or being overwhelmed by Islamic takeover? Do you REALLY believe "it can't happen here"?
If so, your world view is very shortsighted.
You can read the entire article here:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/36...-february-2013
"In Egypt the indigenous Christian faith is once more facing another bleak future because of ongoing Islamization. Despite this, and the fact that secular forces face being crushed by the current government of Egypt; the United States, the European Union and Gulf nations are all working together in order to help the Muslim Brotherhood survive financially. Simply put, Christian blood isn't "only cheap" it doesn't even enter the radar to any significant degree." You can read more here: http://www.aina.org/news/20130427122020.htm
"A mass exodus of Christians is currently underway. Millions of Christians are being displaced from one end of the Islamic world to the other.
We are reliving the true history of how the Islamic world, much of which prior to the Islamic conquests was almost entirely Christian, came into being."
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...#ixzz2UIzh2b6L
So what makes any one in any country believe this religion is a peaceful, neighborly one? If you are Christian, or Jew or any religion but Islam for that matter, you are a target. If you are atheist, well, do you think that means you are immune to their persecution? Do you enjoy freedom of religion, speech, and life style? Do you believe you are immune because you live in America or some other country that is not yet enforcing sharia law and/or being overwhelmed by Islamic takeover? Do you REALLY believe "it can't happen here"?
If so, your world view is very shortsighted.