It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!

[By Grace]

not all muslims do see it that. should we then just ignore the fact that some muslims don't? the bible says we ought to slay witches gay and some say we have. they would be correct as in the past we did do that. yet most Christians don't today based on the words of jesus. I agree with them. funny how that works for us.sodomy was punishable by death in the us.army until the 20th century.

Dear Jason

Sadly, it seems as if you are attacking the Bible to support Islam. I sincerely hope that that is not so.

When you make a broad stroke as you did, you must look at the context of what you are saying in Scripture. Please do a search in the Bible on "witch" and other words for "gay" and then compare them with some of the suras I provided previously. You will see that there is a vast difference in many things about the reasons for things in the Bible.

Also I hope that you can see that mu discussion with you is just that, a discussion. It is not a personal issue, nor do I want it to go that way. HOWEVER you seem to miss the fact that the point remains their Qur'an tells them to kill all infidels meaning non-Muslims. NOTHING like that can be said about the Bible.

 

[jasoncran]

I was making a point by that. while the bible doesn't condone murder of via atrocities of the hatred of the jews, the church did at one point put to death witches and gays based on the torah. one could argue that jesus took the spiritual punishment for sins but not the legal punishement.ie that if I steal , murder and I repent that doesn't mean I can walk away from the jailhouse.yet we don't do that today.i have met Christians whom have argued for the death penalty for gays. debated that and told them that they were wrong. why? because they forgot that fornicators died in Sodom and gommorah too. and in the law that was also punishable by death too.of course when the church did this they tend to ignore the part where jesus didn't damn the adulterer. but that is another thread.

I make that case to show you that even some muslims have moved in this direction. it may be harder for them to make that case, but they exist. and for the faults of the arguments that they use to support it isn't the goverement purview to judge men and women guilty of a crime by being associated by a book and history with the name of the quran without first having any probable cause. if an iman in America takes the position of well we wont kill the kafir but allah has said they will be in hell. what is that to the first amendment rights guarantee?nothing. you assume that No muslim would take the quran that way when I know that some do.

im a familiar with the anti-slavery movement and the history of it and in pauls day few jews owned slaves.! why based on the torah and how it commanded slaves to be treated. that included gentiles.

here ya go
jews in isreal and in America have told me of these muslims.
http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

 

[By Grace]

here ya go jews in isreal and in America have told me of these muslims. http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

I find that there are serious errors with this essay

What kind of this Muslims’ God who ordained his followers to kill more than 70% human beings of this planet if they don’t convert to Islam or being as dissenters; where it’s written in the holy Quran, I am not talking about so-called imposture “the Hadiths”?
​

He is making a straw man argument, and is ignoring the FACTS. Please compare what I posted below with what he stated above:

Qur'an 45.19: Surely they shall not avail you in the least against Allah; and surely the unjust are friends of each other, and Allah is the guardian of those who guard (against evil).


Qur'an 3:79 Who so desires any other religion than Islam, that religion shall never be accepted from him, and in the next world he shall be among the lost. [FONT=&quot][2][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Whosoever craves other than Islam for a religion, it shall surely not be accepted from him, and he shall, in the next world, be of those who lose.’ [/FONT]

Qur’an 3:142 O you who have believed! If you obey the infidels, they will cause you to turn upon your heels, and you will fall back into perdition.[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
O ye who believe, if ye obey those who misbelieve, they will turn you back upon your heels, and ye will retreat the losers.[4]

Qur’an 9:29 Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth.http://www.christianforums.net/#_ftn1
[FONT=&quot]Fight those who believe not in God and in the last day, and who forbid not what God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who do not practice the religion of truth from amongst those to whom the Book has been brought, until they pay the tribute by their hands and be as little ones[/FONT]
​

Just so we are sure of what he said: "where it’s written in the holy Quran, I am not talking about so-called imposture “the Hadiths”?" NONE of these are Hadith; ALL of them are suras from the Qur'an.

He also wrote: " Fundamentally Islam is very near to Judaism in its religious outlook, structure, jurisprudence and practice with the difference that traditionally Torah is in the scroll form and the Quran is in the codex form. " Anyone who has studied the history and transmission of both the OT and the Qur'an know that this is a false statement. Their prophet Mohammad began writing the stuff in the Qur'an about 600 AD, about the same time as the Masoretic texts were recorded. Moses began writing the Pentateuch between 1500 add 1200 BC. Therefore doing the mathematics, that is a gap of 2100 to 1800 years. PLUS the Qur'sn was designed to be an "anti-Jew, and anti-Christian book because both are mentioned in the Qur'an, and the suras tell them to kill all infidels.

perhaps the most egregious error is this one: "As a matter of fact, the primary cause of this hostility has political and economical origin. After dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and end of World War II, the United Nations gave a portion of the land which was inhabited by the Palestinians to the Jewish people as a new state Israel. Arabs protested vehemently against the Israel occupying their land. Since, there has been great abhorrence and bellicosity between tiny Israel and its Arab neighbors as Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Egypt. "

Please look up Malachi 1:3 and Romans 9:13 in your Bible. Then look at Hebrews 12:16

So when I see so many errors of fact in one piece, I am very reluctant to take ANYTHING the man writes as truth. That is NOT a reflection upon you; you merely gave a link. That is a reflection on him

 

[jasoncran]

I never said that there arguments are correct. just that well they exist.

back to topic.

my positions and questions are these:
1) I acknowledge that it is true that the quran does teach men to do evil
2) I also acknowledge that some do overlook that and while they may be well ignoring that fact we cant based our goverments laws on religious views since murder, rape and incest and pedophilia are already illegal and well polygamy as well for now.
3) how does the muslim who doesn't kill, rape, etc get the message that we Christians have a god that loves them when we come across as all muslims are murderers?
4) in A war with terrorist nations and their leaders do we then just kill them(the citizens of the nations who may or may not hate us) all? NO
5) if a muslim works and lives and owns a business in America do we just boycott them? if so then lets boycott Walmart, Disney,piper aircraft, and any who employ a muslim. I throw in Disney as they well borrowed very Arabic stories such as Aladdin and made a movie and a cartoon . might as well add mgm as they did the Sinbad movies which is also Arabic in origin.
6) so we don't do algebra nor chemistry as these are from muslim origins as well?
7)what about the methods that isreal does with islam. they allow islam in her borders so long as women aren't beaten, raped and so forth. they also have arab women and men of the muslim faith on the Knesset.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

they also allowed this man to be elected by the hadash, man what a character.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afu_Agbaria

of course that hasn't worked to well for them. all the arabs on the knesset are rather anti-isreal but well they cant say that the "jews" haven't allowed them voice their views. that is a fine line we must walk. that is why I support isreal. because even though they are hated by the arabs they do try. that is what we must do. only the GOSPEL can change them. laws banning islam will NOT make it go away. if so then we better ban humanism, atheism, Buddhism. Mormonism. jews, etc.

 

[By Grace]

I never said that there arguments are correct. just that well they exist.

Usually when a person supplies a link to a long artucle, as you did, it is assumed that the person supports the article in its entirety. Since you did not state the reason for including it, I assumed that you supported the entire Bible.

1) I acknowledge that it is true that the quran does teach men to do evil

Is that a stetement that that includes beheadding, and the slaughter of ALL non-Muslims? I do not want to assume too much.

2) I also acknowledge that some do overlook that and while they may be well ignoring that fact we cant based our goverments laws on religious views since murder, rape and incest and pedophilia are already illegal and well polygamy as well for now.

There are people who profess being Christians but they do not accept this thing or that in the Bible. So what? Stating that in public will not get anyone killed in the US, but saying that about the Qur'an in Qom, Medina, Tehran or Baghdad WILL get you killed.-is that a true statement? Like it or not, ALL laws in EVERY country are based on a moral belief, which is based on the predominate religion in a country

3) how does the muslim who doesn't kill, rape, etc get the message that we Christians have a god that loves them when we come across as all muslims are murderers?

THEIR BOOK SAYS IT, JASON.

Therein lies the crucial difference between the Bible and the Qur'an. It is a major difference.

I gotta go, very rough day.

Let me close with this Arab joke:
Q Why is the camel so haughty?
A The Camel knows the 100th name of God, but will not tell.

EXPLANATION
The Qur'an says that there are 100 names for God, and the Qur'an lists 99 of them.

If you want to use that joke as an opening to evangelism, go ahead, but also tell the Arabs that you speak to that there is one name of God that is not in their book, and that is "Holy Father"

You are then free to explain the meaning of the word Father, and then also free to explain the adjective "holy" as it means in the Bible. Durely that joke will provide an opening for evangelism.

 

[Mountain Man]

Our problem is political correctness...P.C is

Anti White

Anti Christian

Anti West

It is supremely racist and every person and their actions are judged on skin color and the darker the better,the darker one's skin is the the wider path they are given in regard to their violence,hatred,racism and lack of contribution to society...the ultimate goal is the destruction of western culture and to return the masses to the villages and mud huts so they can be easily ruled and controlled by the world's elite.

 

[tessiewebb]

Usually when a person supplies a link to a long artucle, as you did, it is assumed that the person supports the article in its entirety. Since you did not state the reason for including it, I assumed that you supported the entire Bible.


Is that a stetement that that includes beheadding, and the slaughter of ALL non-Muslims? I do not want to assume too much.



There are people who profess being Christians but they do not accept this thing or that in the Bible. So what? Stating that in public will not get anyone killed in the US, but saying that about the Qur'an in Qom, Medina, Tehran or Baghdad WILL get you killed.-is that a true statement? Like it or not, ALL laws in EVERY country are based on a moral belief, which is based on the predominate religion in a country

3) how does the muslim who doesn't kill, rape, etc get the message that we Christians have a god that loves them when we come across as all muslims are murderers?

THEIR BOOK SAYS IT, JASON.

Therein lies the crucial difference between the Bible and the Qur'an. It is a major difference.

I gotta go, very rough day.

Let me close with this Arab joke:
Q Why is the camel so haughty?
A The Camel knows the 100th name of God, but will not tell.

EXPLANATION
The Qur'an says that there are 100 names for God, and the Qur'an lists 99 of them.

If you want to use that joke as an opening to evangelism, go ahead, but also tell the Arabs that you speak to that there is one name of God that is not in their book, and that is "Holy Father"

You are then free to explain the meaning of the word Father, and then also free to explain the adjective "holy" as it means in the Bible. Durely that joke will provide an opening for evangelism.

Great post, ByGrace, just wanted to bump it to the top again.

 

[tessiewebb]

Our problem is political correctness...P.C is

Anti White

Anti Christian

Anti West

It is supremely racist and every person and their actions are judged on skin color and the darker the better,the darker one's skin is the the wider path they are given in regard to their violence,hatred,racism and lack of contribution to society...the ultimate goal is the destruction of western culture and to return the masses to the villages and mud huts so they can be easily ruled and controlled by the world's elite.

Surprising myself, I agree with much of your post, MM. The extraordinary thing about P.C. is that it's main proponents are white! The white man's guilt has been well and truly traded on by those of other skin colors and the Muslims are the most clever of all at playing the race card. Strangely, there is no known race called "Muslim" but that hasn't stopped them stacking the deck.

I believe the ultimate goal is the destruction of all things godly and decent becuz satan hates not only humans but the God Who will ultimately destroy him. Satan was said in the Bible to be the most cunning of creatures, and his strategies are now more open than ever before...the violence, destruction, and deceit flooding the world today is quickly reaching epic proportions...how long it can last before the end is anyone's guess at this point.

 

[jasoncran]

well my concern is that you too are feeding the left and so call consertives fight against islam and while we are at it they take rights to stop a threat. uhm im thinking of prism and also the patriot act, the nsa. yeah how many Americans diea abroad from islam or at home?

oh in my county I have the stats in one month. 6 blacks dead, whom killed them fellow americans, but what about any muslim threat that has made news locally. birds chirping.so what is the larger threat? the government going after a lesser threat while becoming a threat and ignoring the crimes that they should enforce that would stop muslims any way as well we cant event stop well gay rights and abortion and illegal immigration!

 

[tessiewebb]

 

[Destructus86]

I think a lot of this conflict comes down to ignorance...both on the Christian side and the Islamic side.

We christians often claim that Islamic are out to kill every heretic. But that's not true...it's only the extremists/terrorists offshoot that believes that. Modern day followers don't practice that anymore. The verses often quoted by Christians to "prove it" are taken out of historical context

It's the same as Christianity when Athiests try to use old testatement quotes about killing entire towns if some of the people are of another belief. Obviously we don't do that anymore, but if you take it out of historical context it makes us all sound like murderers.

 

[Destructus86]

This was spoken by the leader of an extremist group. After Muslim leaders learned of what he said he was forced to step down.

 

[Potluck]

Islam and radical Islam has been talked about long enough now that I think the majority of people who follow the political side of it know the difference.
Can Christians stand against radicalized Islam? Sure, and have. But it's like an outsider attempting to change something foreign. The insiders most likely will take offense.

Gospel For America in India. Why mention them? Because those carrying the Word to the people are native Christians who's missions are funded largely by outsider donations. They get much better response because those sharing the Word are indeed Indian themselves.

Same thing needs to happen within the Muslim communities. Instead of yelling racist or bigot claiming victimization from Christians standing against radical Islam they need to stand up and fight it as avidly as non-Muslims.

As far as I'm concerned it's they who should be leading the struggle against radical Islam, not Christians who when they do are ridiculed as bigots.

Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser says it best.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...remism-drop-the-we-are-the-victims-mentality/

Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, a conservative author, activist and the president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD), has a message for Muslim Americans:


Step up to the plate and work diligently to combat Islamism and extremism. Jasser spoke with TheBlaze this week about his reaction to the Boston Marathon terror attack and his views on steps that should be taken within Islamic circles to prevent further extremism.

When asked how he believes Muslims should be reacting to the terror attacks, the faith leader noted that he has been disappointed by the response thus far. He claimed that many Islamic leaders have simply not done enough and that more is required of the community as a whole.

“Swift condemnations of the act of terrorism are just not enough. I don’t believe that the American public is buying their mantra of denial and victimization,†he told TheBlaze through e-mail. “They deny that the perpetrators were Muslim (basically committing *‘takfir’ as is typical for Islamists) — all the while the list of hundreds of American Muslims either attempting to commit or having committed acts of terrorism continues to pile up.â€

* In Islamic law, takfir or takfeer (Arabic: تكفير‎ takfīr) refers to the practice of one Muslim declaring another Muslim an unbeliever or kafir (pl. kuffār).

I will admit though I honestly believe true fear of reprisal from Islamic extremists holds them back. Dodging that truth with claims of racism and bigotry isn't going to cut it. But they MUST lead within their own circles of belief. Christians or other non-Muslims can aid in the effort as a strong ally but it's the Muslims themselves who are best suited to lead the charge.

 

[Destructus86]

It's amazing how much God can do when his children reach out to others in love and respect rather then condemnation and name calling

 

[Kaliani]

Our problem is political correctness...P.C is

Anti White

Anti Christian

Anti West

It is supremely racist and every person and their actions are judged on skin color and the darker the better,the darker one's skin is the the wider path they are given in regard to their violence,hatred,racism and lack of contribution to society...

Strikes me that the problem is that this concern is universal. EVERY community thinks there is an anti-'us' pro-'them' agenda.

 

[Kaliani]

P.s. White guilt can make us do many neurotic things. Hyper PC is one symptom. Another symptom is passing the guilt off to the next community, so the world can see we're not as bad as 'them'.

Muslim guilt anyone?

 

[turnorburn]

What they fear isn't radical Islam its the god of Islam they fear. Have we ever stopped to think what their faith consists of, those poor creatures feel that if they leave Islam they'll lose their salvation. If they stay they will be blessed with eternal bliss.. That's what the devil has promised them, eternal bliss in the cheap seats, but seats all the same. if they want to step up to the Box seats they must kill in order to qualify..

tob

 

[Potluck]

If Muslim groups, black groups, women's groups, gay groups, Hispanic groups and every other minority group would stop stirring pot maybe we'd have a better chance of putting these things in the past. But no, some group somewhere is always screaming discrimination, prejudice, bigotry or other words to imply hate keeping the victim mentality going.
They just won't let it die.
We're supposed to be moving forward toward equality but people keep segregating themselves into minority activist groups.

 

[Mountain Man]

Our problem is political correctness...P.C is

Anti White

Anti Christian

Anti West

It is supremely racist and every person and their actions are judged on skin color and the darker the better,the darker one's skin is the the wider path they are given in regard to their violence,hatred,racism and lack of contribution to society...

Strikes me that the problem is that this concern is universal. EVERY community thinks there is an anti-'us' pro-'them' agenda.

Then there is reality,people can imagine anything they want but when bombs go off,planes crash,favortism is shown it passes from concern to reality.

 

[Mountain Man]

P.s. White guilt can make us do many neurotic things. Hyper PC is one symptom. Another symptom is passing the guilt off to the next community, so the world can see we're not as bad as 'them'.

Muslim guilt anyone?

Even when an attempt is made to hold a specific individual or group responsible for a specific even at a specific time and place PC idiocy kicks in.