It seems like Christ say's that this is the End Time in verse 22-23!

[Elijah674]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matt. 10 has Christ with COMMANDMENT to His twelve! And verse 15 finds a real WARNING! And Christ was there present at this time, so verse 23 has an END TIME REPEATED TRUTH SEEN! Eccl. 3:15

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

[6] But [[go rather to the lost sheep of the house]] of Israel.

[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
....

[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[15] Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[16] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
[17] But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
[21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: [but he that endureth to the end] shall be saved.
[23] But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[Elijah674]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matt. 10 has Christ with COMMANDMENT to His twelve! And verse 15 finds a real WARNING! And Christ was there present at this time, so verse 23 has an END TIME REPEATED TRUTH SEEN! Eccl. 3:15

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

[6] But [[go rather to the lost sheep of the house]] of Israel.

[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
....

[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[15] Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[16] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
[17] But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
[21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: [but he that endureth to the end] shall be saved.
[23] But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

OK: We hear of Judgement. Were not the House of God Judged FIRST as seen here at the closing of time??

1 Peter 4:17
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at thehouse of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Now we find the total conclusion of judgement in Eccl. 12:13-14 documented.
Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

So the only question asked when Christ comes again is...?

Now when Christ comes again it is ALL OVER WITH, Eternal Life or Eternal Death [[[EXECPT]]] the wicked being resurrected in their second resurrection to die their eternal second death!

There are the rightous & wicked to be eternally seperated when Christ comes again. [[PREJUDGED by the Eccl. 12:13-14 WORD.]] And then at the end of the 1000 years we find the Lord having a resurrection of the extra large number of wicked that come out of their graves the same as they had.. went 'LOST' into them, and they have now after the 1000 yrs. been judged for the executive length of their suffering for their personal evil. Some will die quickly, others will linger on longer as the judgement found merit for their reward. (see Christ's WORD of Luke 12:47-48)

And yes, Dan. 9 finds this all in Prophecy.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Matt. 10 has Christ with COMMANDMENT to His twelve! And verse 15 finds a real WARNING! And Christ was there present at this time, so verse 23 has an END TIME REPEATED TRUTH SEEN! Eccl. 3:15

[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

[6] But [[go rather to the lost sheep of the house]] of Israel.

[7] And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
....

[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[15] Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

[16] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
[17] But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
[21] And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: [but he that endureth to the end] shall be saved.
[23] But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

OK: We hear of Judgement. Were not the House of God Judged FIRST as seen here at the closing of time??

1 Peter 4:17
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at thehouse of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Now we find the total conclusion of judgement in Eccl. 12:13-14 documented.
Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

So the only question asked when Christ comes again is...?

Now when Christ comes again it is ALL OVER WITH, Eternal Life or Eternal Death [[[EXECPT]]] the wicked being resurrected in their second resurrection to die their eternal second death!

There are the rightous & wicked to be eternally seperated when Christ comes again. [[PREJUDGED by the Eccl. 12:13-14 WORD.]] And then at the end of the 1000 years we find the Lord having a resurrection of the extra large number of wicked that come out of their graves the same as they had.. went 'LOST' into them, and they have now after the 1000 yrs. been judged for the executive length of their suffering for their personal evil. Some will die quickly, others will linger on longer as the judgement found merit for their reward. (see Christ's WORD of Luke 12:47-48)

And yes, Dan. 9 finds this all in Prophecy.

--Elijah

Me again:
And their fate is for all of Eternity! Obadiah 1:16, and Nahum 1:8-9! Yet will suffer for their crime of non/belief! Luke 12:47-48!

 

[Destructus86]

Matthew 24 is the warning to the apostles and all Christians that the end of the age was coming soon. And it did come. It was the worst tribulation in Christian history that we have not seen since.

 

[Eugene]

Matthew 24 is the warning to the apostles and all Christians that the end of the age was coming soon. And it did come. It was the worst tribulation in Christian history that we have not seen since.

Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. (That’s 200 million horsemen)
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed . .

The following history of the temple destroyed in 70 AD doesn’t seem to even come close to what is prophesied.
(According to Josephus), there were as many as 1,100,000 slain in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons
Even during the Holocaust 6 million were killed surpassing that during the destruction of the temple.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/history/world-population-growth.htm
One third of mankind destroyed even in 0 AD would have been 133 million. Sorry, but your estimate “It was the worst tribulation in Christian history that we have not seen since” doesn’t even come close.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Matthew 24 is the warning to the apostles and all Christians that the end of the age was coming soon. And it did come. It was the worst tribulation in Christian history that we have not seen since.

What was that?

 

[Destructus86]

Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. (That’s 200 million horsemen)
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed . .

The following history of the temple destroyed in 70 AD doesn’t seem to even come close to what is prophesied.
(According to Josephus), there were as many as 1,100,000 slain in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jewish_population_comparisons
Even during the Holocaust 6 million were killed surpassing that during the destruction of the temple.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/history/world-population-growth.htm
One third of mankind destroyed even in 0 AD would have been 133 million. Sorry, but your estimate “It was the worst tribulation in Christian history that we have not seen since” doesn’t even come close.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

A third of men is not literal. We see it's not by looking back at Revelation 8:12 where it says "a third of the sun, moon and starts were smitten so a third of them might be darkened and the day might not shine for a third of it."

If only a Third of the sun is smitten, then how can there be no light at all? There can't be...for there to be NO shine of the sun the entire sun, moon and stars would have to be blocked from view...and it clears says that did not happen. The language is drawn from the OT and is used to describe judgement and destruction. Again, this is something the people of that day would have clearly understand the language of...nowadays we seem to misunderstand that language. And if we take THAT language literally...then why do we not take the woman in the stars or the dragon coming from the sea literally? Why do we cherry pick what is literal and what is not?

Revelation 9:15. four angels killed a THIRD of mankind. If the judgement takes place in the land os Israel (which it does) then Josephyus most conservative records say that more than a million jews were killed during the war. (on a side note...when high ranking Roman soldiers saw the destruction and death one was noted as saying that "it surely must be God's judgement upon us" it was THAT bad. Roman soldiers also noted that the ocean was literally blood due to the thousands of bodies in the water from Jews trying to escape and were cut down. It was a nightmare made manifest. Within the walls there was cannibalism before the siege ended.

Notice something important about the so-called “Battle of Armageddon” (16:16). John writes that the “kings of the whole world” will gather “together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty” (16:14). Many see this as a world-wide conflagration because of the use of “whole world.” But it’s not. The Greek word for “world” is oikoumene (not kosmos), the same word used in Matthew 24:14 and Luke 2:1 that has reference to the Roman Empire. The battle is waged by the world empire of the day—Rome—made up of many nations. The phrase is used in a similar way in the OT.[4]

See more at: http://americanvision.org/1687/arma...s-slaughter-of-billions/#sthash.dntdRmVc.dpuf

 

[JLB]

A third of men is not literal. We see it's not by looking back at Revelation 8:12 where it says "a third of the sun, moon and starts were smitten so a third of them might be darkened and the day might not shine for a third of it."

If only a Third of the sun is smitten, then how can there be no light at all? There can't be...for there to be NO shine of the sun the entire sun, moon and stars would have to be blocked from view...and it clears says that did not happen. The language is drawn from the OT and is used to describe judgement and destruction. Again, this is something the people of that day would have clearly understand the language of...nowadays we seem to misunderstand that language. And if we take THAT language literally...then why do we not take the woman in the stars or the dragon coming from the sea literally? Why do we cherry pick what is literal and what is not?

Revelation 9:15. four angels killed a THIRD of mankind. If the judgement takes place in the land os Israel (which it does) then Josephyus most conservative records say that more than a million jews were killed during the war. (on a side note...when high ranking Roman soldiers saw the destruction and death one was noted as saying that "it surely must be God's judgement upon us" it was THAT bad. Roman soldiers also noted that the ocean was literally blood due to the thousands of bodies in the water from Jews trying to escape and were cut down. It was a nightmare made manifest. Within the walls there was cannibalism before the siege ended.

Notice something important about the so-called “Battle of Armageddon” (16:16). John writes that the “kings of the whole world” will gather “together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty” (16:14). Many see this as a world-wide conflagration because of the use of “whole world.” But it’s not. The Greek word for “world” is oikoumene (not kosmos), the same word used in Matthew 24:14 and Luke 2:1 that has reference to the Roman Empire. The battle is waged by the world empire of the day—Rome—made up of many nations. The phrase is used in a similar way in the OT.[4]

See more at: http://americanvision.org/1687/arma...s-slaughter-of-billions/#sthash.dntdRmVc.dpuf

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:20-28

... when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

Is this a literal statement?

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Is this a literal statement?

there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,

Is this a literal statement?


JLB

 

[Destructus86]

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Luke 21:20-28

... when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

Is this a literal statement?

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Is this a literal statement?

there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,

Is this a literal statement?


JLB

Were they surrounded? Yes, that's just basic geography. As for the other highlighted verses...yes it happened symbolically, as is obvious when compared to OT language.

 

[JLB]

Were they surrounded? Yes, that's just basic geography. As for the other highlighted verses...yes it happened symbolically, as is obvious when compared to OT language.

Yes it happened symbolically?

What does that mean?

It is either symbolic or not?

• Jesus prophesied that the city would be surrounded.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

• Jesus prophesied there would be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and that men's hearts would fail them for fear of these things -

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth,

People don't die from heart failure because of something "symbolic". These are very real events in the sun, moon and stars!

• Jesus prophesied that that "they" would see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and glory. "They" are those that see the signs in the sun, moon and stars.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

People don't look up to see "symbolic" signs in the heavens!


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Yes it happened symbolically?

What does that mean?

It is either symbolic or not?

• Jesus prophesied that the city would be surrounded.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

• Jesus prophesied there would be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and that men's hearts would fail them for fear of these things -

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth,

People don't die from heart failure because of something "symbolic". These are very real events in the sun, moon and stars!

• Jesus prophesied that that "they" would see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and glory. "They" are those that see the signs in the sun, moon and stars.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

People don't look up to see "symbolic" signs in the heavens!


JLB

Reading the language used by the prophets in the OT, the sun, moon, and stars, represent governmental systems. Isaiah uses this language when he tells of the destruction of Babylon, and it is Babylon's government system, their nation if you will that is destroyed. It was not speaking of the literal sun, moon, and stars.
In Joseph's dream he sees the sun, moon, and stars and interprets their meaning. They are the 12 tribes of Israel.
So in Matthew we see this language used to represent Israel and the fallen of their governmental system making way for the Church where there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, all are in the Messiah.

 

[JLB]

Reading the language used by the prophets in the OT, the sun, moon, and stars, represent governmental systems. Isaiah uses this language when he tells of the destruction of Babylon, and it is Babylon's government system, their nation if you will that is destroyed. It was not speaking of the literal sun, moon, and stars.
In Joseph's dream he sees the sun, moon, and stars and interprets their meaning. They are the 12 tribes of Israel.
So in Matthew we see this language used to represent Israel and the fallen of their governmental system making way for the Church where there is no difference between Jew and Gentile, all are in the Messiah.

Im sure that is your opinion, but you did not address my post, or the scriptures and the content of the scripture I gave.

• Jesus prophesied that the city would be surrounded.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

• Jesus prophesied there would be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and that men's hearts would fail them for fear of these things -

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth,

People don't die from heart failure because of something "symbolic". These are very real events in the sun, moon and stars!

• Jesus prophesied that that "they" would see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and glory. "They" are those that see the signs in the sun, moon and stars.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

People don't look up to see "symbolic" signs in the heavens!

I think if you truly are seeking to understand what the Old Testament prophecies were pointing to, you would do well to see the symbolic language fulfilled in the literal Day of the Lord, whereby Jesus Christ will Literally come in the clouds with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

He will Literally put an end to all rule and authority. 1 Corinthians 15:23-24

He will Literally Resurrect the dead. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

The signs that precede His Return will be for us to Literally watch for. Mark 13:39

The signs that cause mens hearts to fail are Literal signs that Jesus told us to watch for.

So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! Matthew 24:33

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. Luke 21:25-26

... men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth.


Those things are the very things that Jesus told us to look for, of which you say they are not real.


JLB

 

[reba]

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Plain simple words of Jesus

 

[Deborah13]

Im sure that is your opinion, but you did not address my post, or the scriptures and the content of the scripture I gave.

• Jesus prophesied that the city would be surrounded.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...

• Jesus prophesied there would be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and that men's hearts would fail them for fear of these things -

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth,

People don't die from heart failure because of something "symbolic". These are very real events in the sun, moon and stars!

• Jesus prophesied that that "they" would see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and glory. "They" are those that see the signs in the sun, moon and stars.

Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

People don't look up to see "symbolic" signs in the heavens!

I think if you truly are seeking to understand what the Old Testament prophecies were pointing to, you would do well to see the symbolic language fulfilled in the literal Day of the Lord, whereby Jesus Christ will Literally come in the clouds with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

He will Literally put an end to all rule and authority. 1 Corinthians 15:23-24

He will Literally Resurrect the dead. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

The signs that precede His Return will be for us to Literally watch for. Mark 13:39

The signs that cause mens hearts to fail are Literal signs that Jesus told us to watch for.

So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! Matthew 24:33

"And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken. Luke 21:25-26

... men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth.


Those things are the very things that Jesus told us to look for, of which you say they are not real.


JLB

I did not say they were not real. What I said was that the sun, moon, and stars, represent the nation of Israel and their system of government. Israel was governed by the Law of Moses, which included all spiritual laws, all civil laws, and all economic laws.
I backed that up with scripture from OT (Isaiah) prophecy showing that the sun, moon, and stars represent a system of a nation. That these words are prophetic symbolism, common to the word of God and the apostles would have understood it.

I decided months ago that I had to stop thinking like a western world person and study what the OT taught, because that was what THEY understood.

 

[JLB]

I did not say they were not real. What I said was that the sun, moon, and stars, represent the nation of Israel and their system of government. Israel was governed by the Law of Moses, which included all spiritual laws, all civil laws, and all economic laws.
I backed that up with scripture from OT (Isaiah) prophecy showing that the sun, moon, and stars represent a system of a nation. That these words are prophetic symbolism, common to the word of God and the apostles would have understood it.

I decided months ago that I had to stop thinking like a western world person and study what the OT taught, because that was what THEY understood.

Why would the Apostles have understood the Symbolism in the Old Testament.

What I said was that the sun, moon, and stars, represent the nation of Israel and their system of government

What makes you say this?


JLB

 

[JLB]

5 Now Joseph had a dream, and he told it to his brothers; and they hated him even more. 6 So he said to them, "Please hear this dream which I have dreamed: 7 There we were, binding sheaves in the field. Then behold, my sheaf arose and also stood upright; and indeed your sheaves stood all around and bowed down to my sheaf." 8 And his brothers said to him, "Shall you indeed reign over us? Or shall you indeed have dominion over us?" So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words. 9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." 10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?" Genesis 37:5-10

And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Represents Joseph's family Father Mother and Brother bowing down to him. [Fulfilled in Egypt!]


Compare with the prophecy of Jesus on the Mount of Olives -


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew24:29

This is clearly a statement of the sun being darkened, not the sun bowing down as in Joseph's dream.


Lets look in Zechariah, and see if we can find the language that Jesus is referring to.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

• We have the return of The Lord.

• We have the saints Coming with Him, as in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and revelation 19.

• We have a very peculiar Day that there will be no light, as Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse.

Notice the verse 7 here -

It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

Neither day nor night... The Sun establishes the Day, The Moon establishes the night. No Sun light or moon light !

Yet the verse says... That it will be light!

Where does this light come from, if there is no Sun light or moon light?

Him! The Light of the World.

The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelation 21:23


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Why would the Apostles have understood the Symbolism in the Old Testament.

Because they were Jewish, they were raised Jewish, they would have attend synagogue and heard the readings of Torah, etc., just as Jewish boys and men do today.

What makes you say this?

JLB

see post #11 and I did a keyword search for sun, moon, and stars. I read the scriptures where the prophets use this language with the destruction of Babylon, etc and more than one prophet.
Did you see my post where I quoted the scriptures? It's in the Daniel's weeks thread.

 

[Deborah13]

5 Now Joseph had a dream, and he told it to his brothers; and they hated him even more. 6 So he said to them, "Please hear this dream which I have dreamed: 7 There we were, binding sheaves in the field. Then behold, my sheaf arose and also stood upright; and indeed your sheaves stood all around and bowed down to my sheaf." 8 And his brothers said to him, "Shall you indeed reign over us? Or shall you indeed have dominion over us?" So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words. 9 Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, and said, "Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." 10 So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, "What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?" Genesis 37:5-10

And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me." Represents Joseph's family Father Mother and Brother bowing down to him. [Fulfilled in Egypt!]


Compare with the prophecy of Jesus on the Mount of Olives -


"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew24:29

This is clearly a statement of the sun being darkened, not the sun bowing down as in Joseph's dream.


Lets look in Zechariah, and see if we can find the language that Jesus is referring to.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

• We have the return of The Lord.

• We have the saints Coming with Him, as in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and revelation 19.

• We have a very peculiar Day that there will be no light, as Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse.

Notice the verse 7 here -

It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.

Neither day nor night... The Sun establishes the Day, The Moon establishes the night. No Sun light or moon light !

Yet the verse says... That it will be light!

Where does this light come from, if there is no Sun light or moon light?

Him! The Light of the World.

The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelation 21:23


JLB

Yes, the Lord is the Light of the world. See we can agree on something.

Blessing to you JLB.

 

[JLB]

Yes, the Lord is the Light of the world. See we can agree on something.

Blessing to you JLB.

Because they were Jewish, they were raised Jewish, they would have attend synagogue and heard the readings of Torah, etc., just as Jewish boys and men do today.



see post #11 and I did a keyword search for sun, moon, and stars. I read the scriptures where the prophets use this language with the destruction of Babylon, etc and more than one prophet.
Did you see my post where I quoted the scriptures? It's in the Daniel's weeks thread.

I did a comparison of your theory of Josephs dream, to what The lord said, and it was not the same as I showed you from my post.

The sun will be darkened is a literal statement as you can see from Matthew and Zechariah.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

I did a comparison of your theory of Josephs dream, to what The lord said, and it was not the same as I showed you from my post.

The sun will be darkened is a literal statement as you can see from Matthew and Zechariah.


JLB

JLB, one last try.....
Was Joseph's father literally the sun? Was is mother literally the moon? Were his brothers literally stars?
No, the sun, moon, and stars are prophetic language that can be used to represent other things besides the literal sun, moon, and stars. Was Joseph's dream prophetic?

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isa 13:17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

Prophetic language depicting the destruction (desolation) of Babylon by the Medes.
Actually the Lord used the Medes to destroy Babylon.

When Jesus said He was the light of the world, did He mean physical light?