It's all about you........Jesus.....

[Georges]

I was listening to a contemporary song the other day and the refrain which was repeated like a mantra is....


It's all about yoooouuuuu.....Jesus......all about you....


Shouldn't it be about God....? I think Jesus thought so....


I have a hard time picturing Jesus singing...."It's all about me.....myself...all about me....".....


I guess the song works if you're a trinitarian... :smt064

 

[Georges]

The only time I can see where Jesus toots his own shofar :wink: is when he is standing on trial and rightly declares that he will be sittin on the right hand of power, and a'comin on the clouds of glory......any other time he is glorifying God his heavenly Father and in no uncertain terms ever claims to be God.

 

[Sothenes]

The only time I can see where Jesus toots his own shofar :wink: is when he is standing on trial and rightly declares that he will be sittin on the right hand of power, and a'comin on the clouds of glory......any other time he is glorifying God his heavenly Father and in no uncertain terms ever claims to be God.

Jesus made a lot of claims in John 12:44. Believing in Him was believing in God, to see Him was seeing God, came as the light of the world, those who believe don't abide in darkness, came to save the world, those who don't believe will be judged, claimed His teaching didn't originate with Him and His words are life everlasting.-roughly quoting pastor Chuck

 

[SputnikBoy]

Perhaps I've missed the point but isn't this the song The Heart Of Worship (otherwise known as When The Music fades) that refers to 'the worshipper' worshipping Jesus? Why is this song any different than the many other run-of-the-mill 'Jesus' songs? I kinda like this song, by the way.

 

[gingercat]

I was listening to a contemporary song the other day and the refrain which was repeated like a mantra is....


It's all about yoooouuuuu.....Jesus......all about you....


Shouldn't it be about God....? I think Jesus thought so....


I have a hard time picturing Jesus singing...."It's all about me.....myself...all about me....".....


I guess the song works if you're a trinitarian... :smt064

Now that I am convinced about God and Jesus being separate, many of the worship songs don't make sense to me anymore.

 

[Sothenes]

Now that I am convinced about God and Jesus being separate, many of the worship songs don't make sense to me anymore.

Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

I like the Wesleyan Hymnal because there are scripture verses behind the Hymns and that helps make it spiritual but a lot of songs today are from the Emergent Church which is seeker sensitive and believes that you have to water down the Bible (become less spiritual) in order to get people to come because they don't believe in the power of preaching.

 

[NRoof]

For those interested this is how this song came to be.

The story behind the 'Heart of Worship' song

A few years back in our church, we realised some of the things we thought were helping us in our worship were actually hindering us. They were throwing us off the scent of what it means to really worship. We had always set aside lots of time in our meetings for worshipping God through music. But it began to dawn on us that we´d lost something. The fire that used to characterise our worship had somehow grown cold. In some ways, everything looked great. We had some wonderful musicians, and a good quality sound system. There were lots of new songs coming through, too. But somehow we´d started to rely on these things a little too much, and they´d become distractions. Where once people would enter in no matter what, we´d now wait to see what the band was like first, how good the sound was, or whether we were ´into´ the songs chosen.

Mike, the pastor, decided on a pretty drastic course of action: we´d strip everything away for a season, just to see where our hearts were. So the very next Sunday when we turned up at church, there was no sound system to be seen, and no band to lead us. The new approach was simple - we weren´t going to lean so hard on those outward things any more. Mike would say, ´When you come through the doors of the church on Sunday, what are you bringing as your offering to God? What are you going to sacrifice today?´

If I´m honest, at first I was pretty offended by the whole thing. The worship was my job! But as God softened my heart, I started to see His wisdom all over these actions. At first the meetings were a bit awkward: there were long periods of silence, and there wasn´t too much singing going on. But we soon began to learn how to bring heart offerings to God without any external trappings we´d grown used to. Stripping everything away, we slowly started to rediscover the heart of worship.

After a while, the worship band and the sound system re-appeared, but now it was different. The songs of our hearts had caught up with the songs of our lips.

Out of this season, I reflected on where we had come to as a church, and wrote this song:

When the music fades,
All is stripped away,
And I simply come;
Longing just to bring something that´s of worth
That will bless Your heart.

I´ll bring You more than a song,
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required.
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear;
You´re looking into my heart.

In the chorus I tried to sum up where we were at with worship:

I´m coming back to the heart of worship,
And it´s all about You,
All about You, Jesus.
I´m sorry, Lord, for the thing I´ve made it,
When it´s all about You,
All about You, Jesus.
(Matt Redman, Kingsway´s Thankyou Music)

This extract is taken from Chapter 8 of ´The Unquenchable Worshipper´ by Matt Redman, Kingsway Publications.

http://www.mattredman.com/

 

[Georges]

The only time I can see where Jesus toots his own shofar :wink: is when he is standing on trial and rightly declares that he will be sittin on the right hand of power, and a'comin on the clouds of glory......any other time he is glorifying God his heavenly Father and in no uncertain terms ever claims to be God.

Jesus made a lot of claims in John 12:44. Believing in Him was believing in God, to see Him was seeing God, came as the light of the world, those who believe don't abide in darkness, came to save the world, those who don't believe will be judged, claimed His teaching didn't originate with Him and His words are life everlasting.-roughly quoting pastor Chuck

But S.....what is believing in him? Believing in him as God...something he never claimed? or, Believing in his claim of being the "sent one", God's agent in the flesh?
How did he come to save the world? Ans...He showed us by example on how to be saved...that is by obeying God.

 

[Georges]

Perhaps I've missed the point but isn't this the song The Heart Of Worship (otherwise known as When The Music fades) that refers to 'the worshipper' worshipping Jesus? Why is this song any different than the many other run-of-the-mill 'Jesus' songs? I kinda like this song, by the way.

I like the song also, it's just the focus should be on God......it's all about God.....

 

[NRoof]

I like the song also, it's just the focus should be on God......it's all about God.....

Maybe I'm thick but I don't see the problem you are pointing out.

Jesus paid the penalties for my sins. So in that regards the song reflects the worshipers changing attitude from entertainment back to thanking Jesus for his sacrifice.

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If Jesus is the only way to the father and thus heaven then what is wrong with worshiping and praising Jesus?
Does this not also glorify God at the same time?

 

[Georges]

I like the song also, it's just the focus should be on God......it's all about God.....

Maybe I'm thick but I don't see the problem you are pointing out.

Nah..you're not thick...You may not be familiar with my posts. I'm not a trinitarian...I believe in one God, period. Not one God split into 3 personalities, nor a coequal Triumvirate. I believe that God is the Supreme and that Jesus is subservient (not equal to) his heavenly Father. The HS is the 7 faceted "complete Spirit (power and essence) of God as given in Isa 11:2.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God but not God. I believe God is the savior of the world and that Jesus by example showed us how to achieve salvation.

Having said that...Jesus should be respected but not above, nor equal to the Father....

Jesus paid the penalties for my sins.

He didn't have to die for your sins....God forgives a contriet and repentent heart because he is God. At no time did God every require a human "blood" sacrifice in atonement for sins. God specifically condemns human sacrifice.

So in that regards the song reflects the worshipers changing attitude from entertainment back to thanking Jesus for his sacrifice.

What the song should be praising Jesus about is that he tore the shackles away from the Law....and showing us how to love, obey and worship God in a pure mode.

John 14
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Rightly so....Jesus came at a time when the Judaism was bogged down with legalism. The Torah of God was surrounded by so many "man made" laws that men had forgotten the focus of the Torah to begin with. That was Jesus' contention and what he preached against. By example and teaching Jesus corrects the Pharisic legalism by contending that the people follow his example of obeying Torah (stripped of the man made laws).

If Jesus is the only way to the father and thus heaven then what is wrong with worshiping and praising Jesus?

Thanking Jesus for giving us the example on how to live a life pleasing to God is one thing...my contention is that the focus of praise (it's all about you) should be on God alone.
Does this not also glorify God at the same time?

In my opinion....no. They are not coequal....I do believe that Jesus is due homage (as being second to God)....as long as it is recognized that God is the ultimate Savior. I feel that modern day Christianity has reduced God to a supporting role....

I can see the heavenly oscar's now.....

In the catagory of "Saving Mankind" the winner is Jesus Christ....and the best supporting role goes to......God.

 

[NRoof]

...You may not be familiar with my posts. I'm not a trinitarian...I believe in one God, period. Not one God split into 3 personalities, nor a coequal Triumvirate. I believe that God is the Supreme and that Jesus is subservient (not equal to) his heavenly Father. The HS is the 7 faceted "complete Spirit (power and essence) of God as given in Isa 11:2.

I guess this is where our beliefs will have to split. I personally don't believe anybody this side of heaven can fully understand how the God head works. Each belief has its merits and limitations. It is an attempt for man to understand God and I don't believe that is fully possible.
God has told us his ways are not our ways. The only problem I personally have with the discussions of the God head is it only serves to separate believers which I believe goes against Gods will. All is possible for God which means all the different "isms" could hold some truth or all could be completely wrong.
Regardless of how you believe the God head works God looks at the heart of the believer. That being said I don't believe God will hold it against you if you don't have it figured out before you get to heaven.

 

[gingercat]

That being said I don't believe God will hold it against you if you don't have it figured out before you get to heaven.

This is so typical trinitarian comments. You don't seem to realize how arrogant it is.

 

[NRoof]

That being said I don't believe God will hold it against you if you don't have it figured out before you get to heaven.

This is so typical trinitarian comments. You don't seem to realize how arrogant it is.

gingercat,
2 questions for you.

1) What makes you thinks I'm trinitarian? I thought I clearly stated I don't understand how the God head works. I also stated I don't believe anybody fully understands.

2) What makes what I said arrogant. Do you honestly believe you fully know and understand all aspects of God? If the answer is no then do you honestly believe God will hold it against you are will he have mercy on you.

 

[gingercat]

That being said I don't believe God will hold it against you if you don't have it figured out before you get to heaven.

This is so typical trinitarian comments. You don't seem to realize how arrogant it is.

gingercat,
2 questions for you.

1) What makes you thinks I'm trinitarian? I thought I clearly stated I don't understand how the God head works. I also stated I don't believe anybody fully understands.

2) What makes what I said arrogant. Do you honestly believe you fully know and understand all aspects of God? If the answer is no then do you honestly believe God will hold it against you are will he have mercy on you.

I am sorry I apologize. I was a bit hasty. :

I have been fighting against trinitarians because they are calling non-trinitarians "non-Christians" and ostracizing them. I believe all main stream churches are ostrasizing non-trinitarians as if it is cultish. It is so wrong!!!!

 

[NRoof]

I am sorry I apologize. I was a bit hasty. :

I have been fighting against trinitarians because they are calling non-trinitarians "non-Christians" and ostracizing them. I believe all main stream churches are ostrasizing non-trinitarians as if it is cultish. It is so wrong!!!!

Apology accepted.

Not to take this off topic but why fight against trinitarians. The reason I ask is what I stated before. All these discussion do is put a wedge between brothers and sisters. Would it be nice to understand exactly the relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Sure it would, but while I am no theologian I haven't read anywhere in the Bible that I must understand this to be accepted into heaven.

There is more I would like to say here but again this is distracting from the OP. If you would like to continue this we can either do it in another thread or through PM.

God bless,
Norm

 

[Georges]

...You may not be familiar with my posts. I'm not a trinitarian...I believe in one God, period. Not one God split into 3 personalities, nor a coequal Triumvirate. I believe that God is the Supreme and that Jesus is subservient (not equal to) his heavenly Father. The HS is the 7 faceted "complete Spirit (power and essence) of God as given in Isa 11:2.

I guess this is where our beliefs will have to split. I personally don't believe anybody this side of heaven can fully understand how the God head works. Each belief has its merits and limitations. It is an attempt for man to understand God and I don't believe that is fully possible.

To each his own view my friend... In my studies on the subject I think I've got enough handle on it to cause me to change my view after being a trin for 40+ years....My understanding of God is much more clearer to me now than my previous response as a trin.....that being "I don't know how that is, but it is" or, "it's not meant to be understood", or "It's beyond our understanding". Those answers might have satisfied someone living in the dark ages, but we have no excuse for such answers. At least I have an answer that makes sense to me....and conforms to Judaism.

God has told us his ways are not our ways.

In an attempt to get us to conform to his ways....yes he did say that. How many times have I used that same psychology on my children to convince them to conform to what I wanted them to do.

The only problem I personally have with the discussions of the God head is it only serves to separate believers which I believe goes against Gods will.

Hey...but what if I'm right....then what? I will not conform if I don't think it's right....

All is possible for God which means all the different "isms" could hold some truth or all could be completely wrong.

Agreed....

Regardless of how you believe the God head works God looks at the heart of the believer.

I agree somewhat....but....what if the believer is presented a concept that may not be correct (i.e trinity). Is worshipping Jesus ahead or equal to God justifiable in God's eye....I don't know. I do know that we are to worship God (for sure) and that Jesus is due homage.

That being said I don't believe God will hold it against you if you don't have it figured out before you get to heaven.

Boy am I glad I got it figured out then....I'm sure if I praise Him and honor his Son, I will see you there.... :bday:

 

[Georges]

I am sorry I apologize. I was a bit hasty. :

I have been fighting against trinitarians because they are calling non-trinitarians "non-Christians" and ostracizing them. I believe all main stream churches are ostrasizing non-trinitarians as if it is cultish. It is so wrong!!!!

Apology accepted.

Not to take this off topic but why fight against trinitarians. The reason I ask is what I stated before. All these discussion do is put a wedge between brothers and sisters. Would it be nice to understand exactly the relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Sure it would, but while I am no theologian I haven't read anywhere in the Bible that I must understand this to be accepted into heaven.

There is more I would like to say here but again this is distracting from the OP. If you would like to continue this we can either do it in another thread or through PM.

God bless,
Norm

I give permission for an open debate on the thread....in a way, it does involve Godhead concepts....

 

[Vic C.]

He didn't have to die for your sins....God forgives a contriet and repentent heart because he is God. At no time did God every require a human "blood" sacrifice in atonement for sins. God specifically condemns human sacrifice.

Goerge, I know you know Messianic prophecy, so I'm surprised you said that.

How does He "take away the sins of the world"? How did an Israelite atone for their sins in the OT? The sacrificial lamb. Now, lets complete John the Baptist's statement:

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Why is He the Lamb of God?

Why did Jesus say this?

Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt....

... Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

This tells me it was the Father's will that He be sacrificed. (crucified)

Then there's Psalms 22 and this Isaiah passage:

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

[Georges]

He didn't have to die for your sins....God forgives a contriet and repentent heart because he is God. At no time did God every require a human "blood" sacrifice in atonement for sins. God specifically condemns human sacrifice.

Goerge, I know you know Messianic prophecy, so I'm surprised you said that.

How does He "take away the sins of the world"? How did an Israelite atone for their sins in the OT? The sacrificial lamb. Now, lets complete John the Baptist's statement:

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Why is He the Lamb of God?

Why did Jesus say this?

Mat 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt....

... Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

This tells me it was the Father's will that He be sacrificed. (crucified)

Then there's Psalms 22 and this Isaiah passage:

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Thanks Vic...At this time I recind my statement....until I think about it more...thanks for the verses....I have to work it out...These are verses I've looked at a hundred times...thanks again....