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Bible Study James is not written to the Church.

Kidron said:
As i told you, and i'll tell you again.
Paul teaches that Its by FAITH ALONE that we are saved-justified, born again.
"justification by Faith". and not by works.
James says that its NOT by faith alone.
So what James has said, is not what Paul is teaching.
FACT.
And i have written this Thread to explain to people like you, who ither dont comprehend this, or dont care to try, ... the reason that James cant be used by a Believer as a DOCTRINAL letter that teaches salvation.

If you read James 3, and then read Romans 3, you'll find that they totally contradict and conflict regarding what saves a person.
The epistle of James, regarding how someone is saved, contradicts Ephesians, Galatians, Colossians, Romans, 1-2 Timothy, and Titus.
In Fact it contradicts the BLOOD ATONEMENT's purpose.
So, there is a reason for this, and in this simple THREAD i have explained it to you or to anyone who cares to know their New Testament regarding the ATONEMENT.
If you dont care, then keep preaching James.
Click to expand...

I've never seen anything in James that says you have to do good works to be saved.
Unless you are referring to James 2:18-19.
But everyone knows that is not what it means.
 
Kidron said:
As i told you, and i'll tell you again.
Paul teaches that Its by FAITH ALONE that we are saved-justified, born again.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read that James is "eternally condemning" anyone who has faith 'alone.' You won't find that kind of statement anywhere in James. You might think it's there, but it's not.

Will a person be saved by faith? Yes. Will they perhaps have "less" rewards by the non-exercise of faith through works of love? Yes, that is a distinct possibility, but only in regards of "loss" of worthless works.

1 Cor. 3:
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

Mar 3:24 - And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.​

Someone who gives themselves over to the belief that Jesus' kingdom must be divided because they personally can't reconcile their interpretation of Paul's difficult teachings with the entirety of the gospel probably should not be teaching. We shouldn't be so willing to damn certain apostles just because we don't understand what was written by them under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This comes dangerously close to what Jesus referred to in Mat 12:31 as unforgivable. If one truly understands what Paul wrote in 1st Corinthians about charity, then it is not difficult to reconcile this view with the book of James.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I've never seen anything in James that says you have to do good works to be saved.
Unless you are referring to James 2:18-19.
But everyone knows that is not what it means.
Click to expand...

James 2:24 : Ye see then how that by >>works<< a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH only """"

Do you see "not by faith only"?

Now who wrote this... """" Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH""""

Now who wrote this.... """ To him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him who justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness".

Now, i can post 20 more just like it, that absolutely butt heads with James.
So, that's the issue.
And if a person has gotten their idea of Salvation from James, then they are going to fight with Faith on forums like this one as you see all the time here...., because they have wrongly divided the word.
They do not understand that the epistle of James was written before this Apostle had been given the revelation of "justification by Faith", "free gift of righteousness".. that Paul was given by Christ to give to the Body of Christ.
 
Abraham was ready to kill his son.
Rahab lied to people to save others.
How do we compare that to the good works we should be doing to earn our salvation?
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Abraham was ready to kill his son.
Rahab lied to people to save others.
How do we compare that to the good works we should be doing to earn our salvation?
Click to expand...

Rollo my good brother,.......... we dont have to earn our salvation.
Jesus has already earned it for us on the Cross, and God gives it to us as a Free Gift..
Hallelujah !!!!!!!!!
 
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Then why do you keep saying we need to do good works to be saved?
Click to expand...

Hey my brother, you've confused me with JLB, smaller, and a few others:)

I would never ever tell you that you have to do any type of "works" to be saved, because if i did that, i have both lied to you and i have done despite to the Spirit of Grace and hung Christ afresh on the Cross by teaching that something other then HIM, is necessary to save you or keep you saved.
And if you were to research my posts or my threads, you'd discover that i spend 98% of my time defending the Blood Atonement as all that is offered by God to save anyone,....= or keep anyone saved for eternity.
 
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reba said:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Click to expand...

yes,
absolutely,
but this scripture does not mean that all scriptures are given for all 4 of those at the same time.
Some scriptures are doctrinal...."God was manifested in the flesh"....so, that teaches us that Jesus is GOD., = that doctrine.

Other scriptures...... like Paul who is chastising Peter very harshly in Galatians 2:11 for sitting with Jews and trying to hide his faith like a coward, would not be a doctrinal scripture, but would be an "instruction in righteousness".

So, all of THIS has to do with "rightly dividing the word", and that is why i offered this Thread on behalf of so many who have been mislead by their church, by their Minister, Priest, or Pastor, or teacher, to misunderstand "James".... who does not have the understanding and revelation of the Gospel of the Grace of God when he wrote that Epistle....so, this is why he (seemingly) contradicts in an early letter all the later epistles on Grace and the "gift of Righteousness" that Paul wrote about constantly.
So, this thread is designed as a hopeful help to try to unwind the knot that so many on this forum have in their Salvation theology , based on misunderstanding some things about James, regarding what he said about Faith before he really understood the "gift of righteousness" that Paul taught Later.
 
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We each views on Scripture..I do not believe any one of us ( us being God's kids) has the complete or the only correct understanding.. One members post may help another and yet another may help another . When we seek Him He fills our needs..
 
reba said:
We each views on Scripture..I do not believe any one of us ( us being God's kids) has the complete or the only correct understanding.. One members post may help another and yet another may help another . When we seek Him He fills our needs..
Click to expand...

Oh sure.
Thats a very valid point....
But, we are told by God to study the scriptures, and so, this has to do with learning to spiritually discern the differences and to comprehend the contexts in the word.
Its not just about reading, its about the bible being revealed to us because we study it.
There is also the fact that God gifts some to be teachers, and these people are given deeper insight into the word and an ability to create a curious desire for more understanding in hearers and readers so that this helps them to evolve more within their Christianity as the Holy Spirit reveals more to them.
 
Kidron said:
JLB, what is the "church"?
Is it the >body of Christ< or is it the "12 tribes of Israel"?
Click to expand...

The Church is the Bride of Christ, whose founding member was Abraham.

9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Revelation 21:9-14
 
Kidron said:
JLB, what is the "church"?
Is it the >body of Christ< or is it the "12 tribes of Israel"?
Are you thinking about this yet, or are you just reiterating what you THOUGHT all this time based on what you have been taught by your particular church or commentary?
See, the reason that what im showing you makes so much sense, is because its true.
Its simple, its theologically sound, and it makes sense.

So, the issue is that James does not know the revelation of the Grace of God when He wrote this early letter.
Its an EARLY LETTER, and that is why James is not familiar with the GRACE OF GOD = "justification by Faith" alone.
Peter has the same issue, in Acts 10, ..>10 years after the Cross< ...where he does not even know that Gentiles are to be saved.
So, when apostles dont know about these things, if they dont know that gentiles are to be saved, or that Salvation is based on Grace through Faith ALONE, then their letters have to be understood as ...."well, he didnt understand something when he wrote that epistle"...and then the believer can read the epistle of James and not have their understanding of Grace, completely messed up.
As this one Epistle does this to people........and its because they are not intimately familiar with Paul's epistles so that they are grounded and are sound in their theology regarding "Grace through Faith" and the "Gift of Righteousness", .
And because they are not, then they read a letter by an Apostle who ALSO does not know it, and they think.....oh, "so it WORKS, its WORKS and not faith", and then they are messed up and actually subverted about what actually saves a person, or the way God actually provided the blood atonement as a "free gift" without works.
Romans 3:21-26
So, once you realize that an apostle can only preach what he knows, and if he does not know the revelation of "Grace through faith" yet, this explains why what he says early in his Christian experience in a letter would seem to contradict what Paul wrote, as what Paul is writing is long after the Cross.
Click to expand...


As you have been politely shown by several members of this Forum, James was addressing the Church, which happened to be Jews who were scattered in the persecution of that day.

My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. James 2:1

I can't possibly imagine why anyone would make such a claim about James letter.

Here is what I do know, the more you write in this thread, the more you expose yourself as someone who is not capable of teaching God's word.

No offense, but please just let this go.


JLB
 
JLB said:
The Church is the Bride of Christ, whose founding member was Abraham.
Click to expand...

That is not my question's question.
What im saying, is that if someone is not realizing that the "12 tribes of Israel" is NOT the Bride of Christ, then that misguided person is obviously going to be confused by James, and use this epistle to try to teach people they can lose their salvation, or that salvation is a product of WORKS.
Thats what im saying to you.
 
Kidron said:
James 2:24 : Ye see then how that by >>works<< a man is justified, and NOT BY FAITH only """"

Do you see "not by faith only"?

Now who wrote this... """" Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by FAITH""""

Now who wrote this.... """ To him that WORKETH NOT, but believeth on him who justifieth the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness".

Now, i can post 20 more just like it, that absolutely butt heads with James.
So, that's the issue.
And if a person has gotten their idea of Salvation from James, then they are going to fight with Faith on forums like this one as you see all the time here...., because they have wrongly divided the word.
They do not understand that the epistle of James was written before this Apostle had been given the revelation of "justification by Faith", "free gift of righteousness".. that Paul was given by Christ to give to the Body of Christ.
Click to expand...


That's the obedience of faith that Paul teaches.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
 
Kidron said:
That is not my question's question.
What im saying, is that if someone is not realizing that the "12 tribes of Israel" is NOT the Bride of Christ, then that misguided person is obviously going to be confused by James, and use this epistle to try to teach people they can lose their salvation, or that salvation is a product of WORKS.
Thats what im saying to you.
Click to expand...


I haven't seen anyone yet who teaches salvation by works.

Salvation comes by obedience, the obedience of faith; ie obeying the Gospel.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10



Is salvation by believing or confession.

Is confessing Jesus as Lord, YHWH, a "work".


JLB
 
JLB said:
As you have been politely shown by several members of this Forum, James was addressing the Church, which happened to be Jews who were scattered in the persecution of that day.

My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. James 2:1
JLB
Click to expand...

First, my reaction to you telling me that i should not be "teaching"........is......."yawn."
Now having yawned through that....
JLB< trust me, when i tell you that you are the last person on this forum who needs to be telling anyone they should not be "teaching".
Now...
James's letter is written to the 12 Tribes.
Read vs 1.
Its a JEWISH epistle.
And the reason that you dont use this JEWISH epistle to teach the doctrine of the Grace of God, is because James does not teach it, and that is because he does not know it at the time he wrote his Jewish epistle.
And based on the fact that the epistle is written only to the JEWS, i suspect that he also does not understand that gentiles can be saved........similar to Peter in Acts 10.
Tho a case could be made for Acts 15., but im already there.
Instead James contradicts Faith as the sole means that God accepts to save you.
So, that he is familiar with believing in Jesus, but does not understand that the blood atonement is the "gift of righteousness" that you dont work for, or earn, is proven by what he writes in the 2nd chapter.
 
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