Jesus as "a" way, Christ as "the" way.

[smaller]

smaller, OK, thanks for the explanation.

Anyway, good luck sorting out the dots and tittles. It always amazes me just how many claim they are clearly laid out, yet who all disagree with each other.

And no, please do not seek to justify this.

All the best.

People see what they see CA.

If you knew the scripture set I was referring to from Paul you would not have the reaction above nor would you find offense.

The 'jots and tittles' are designed simply.

Pro Love
Anti Evil

Quite simple.

s

 

[Randy]

Randy, I would just have to say that in my meetings with others, and on various forums, I have heard many "indisputable claims", all different. Seriously. Honestly.

I would also say that it has been, as is, the testimony of many devout Christians that they in fact deny nothing, or reject nothing, by opening their hearts and minds to those of other Faiths. Rather the "work" of Christ is witnessed to in ways that only serve the True God in a deeper way.

Just lately I have been on a Catholic Forum, and read of how at the heart of every Protestant is "obstinacy"; again, another forum where a JW who has spent 55 years studying the Bible in multiple translations has declared that no one has any excuse for rejecting the "truth" as the JW's see it. And so it goes on. And on. Each harbinger of the "one truth" offering subtle threats to any other who has the temerity to deny their own take and version. And each hiding behind the claim that it is the "judgement" of "big brother (Him up there)"- not their own.

So we each must live with our judgements. It is all rather sad in many ways.

All the best.

Thats why we have a written testimony. Check what is written from the teachings of the Head of the Body Of Christ. Universalism isn't taught. Jesus dealt with excuses given. Did Jesus even once state it was ok to reject Him and have a hope of life after the life of the body? Jesus is the gatekeeper. No one gets to Father except by Him. That was and is to this day the Fathers Will.

Its your choice whether you want to seek Jesus with sincerity. However what is written from God can't be changed by man. That is why I state take what Jesus states very seriously. I have no reason to lie and as I told you "Jesus Lives"

Randy

 

[Cobblers Apprentice]

People see what they see CA.

If you knew the scripture set I was referring to from Paul you would not have the reaction above nor would you find offense.

The 'jots and tittles' are designed simply.

Pro Love
Anti Evil

Quite simple.

s

smaller, we certainly see what is in front of us, as you quote back to me that which I subsequently edited (very very soon after posting) after seeing a misreading on my part.

And dots to jots.

And no offence. I merely stated a fact concerning that which is considered "clear."

But no, I am not aware of the passage from St Paul you allude to. I now look to other scriptures.

All the best.

 

[smaller]

smaller, we certainly see what is in front of us, as you quote back to me that which I subsequently edited (very very soon after posting) after seeing a misreading on my part.

And dots to jots.

And no offence. I merely stated a fact concerning that which is considered "clear."

But no, I am not aware of the passage from St Paul you allude to. I now look to other scriptures.

All the best.

Pro Love and anti Evil is no threat to any person CA.

Any decent person with half a wit can come to that conclusion in their own hearts without jots and tittles. The jots and tittles are no different, nor is it any more complex than that.

s

 

[Cobblers Apprentice]

Thats why we have a written testimony. Check what is written from the teachings of the Head of the Body Of Christ. Universalism isn't taught. Jesus dealt with excuses given. Did Jesus even once state it was ok to reject Him and have a hope of life after the life of the body? Jesus is the gatekeeper. No one gets to Father except by Him. That was and is to this day the Fathers Will.

Its your choice whether you want to seek Jesus with sincerity. However what is written from God can't be changed by man. That is why I state take what Jesus states very seriously. I have no reason to lie and as I told you "Jesus Lives"

Randy

Randy, please, your assumption that to reject your own current understanding is to "reject Christ" is lamentable. Such narrow Biblical Fundamentalism does a disservice to the full strength and depth of the entire Christian Tradition.

It is Gods will that all be saved, and as I see it it is those like yourself who seek to restrict "knowledge of Christ" ( and by implication the "sincerity" shown by those who seek) to the parameters set by your own interpretations that have actually led to many looking elsewhere.

 

[Cobblers Apprentice]

Pro Love and anti Evil is no threat to any person CA.

Any decent person with half a wit can come to that conclusion in their own hearts without jots and tittles. The jots and tittles are no different, nor is it any more complex than that.

s

smaller, to be honest I have lost you.

As far as I am aware initially I was merely seeking to say that those interested in "jots (or dots) and tittles" were missing the point, or putting unnecessary things in the way of agreement with the main point.

As I see it we are at cross purposes.

 

[smaller]

smaller, to be honest I have lost you.

:eeeekkk

 

[smaller]

smaller, to be honest I have lost you.

As far as I am aware initially I was merely seeking to say that those interested in "jots (or dots) and tittles" were missing the point, or putting unnecessary things in the way of agreement with the main point.

As I see it we are at cross purposes.

So, I put up a fairly simple observation.

The scriptures are PRO LOVE and ANTI EVIL

and you got LOST?

please spare me.

Are you then pro EVIL and anti LOVE?

???

lost...what a joke.

s

 

[Randy]

Randy, please, your assumption that to reject your own current understanding is to "reject Christ" is lamentable. Such narrow Biblical Fundamentalism does a disservice to the full strength and depth of the entire Christian Tradition.

It is Gods will that all be saved, and as I see it it is those like yourself who seek to restrict "knowledge of Christ" ( and by implication the "sincerity" shown by those who seek) to the parameters set by your own interpretations that have actually led to many looking elsewhere.

I thought I steered you to the NT and those words.

I take my leave and allow you to seek.

Randy

 

[Cobblers Apprentice]

I thought I steered you to the NT and those words.

I take my leave and allow you to seek.

Randy

randy, so you assume you "steer", and choose the words that others need, and that others need to "seek"......and obviously find just what you have "found".

Sorry, this forum was a little bit of an experiment. I have long been on "Inter-faith" forums and a Progressive Christian Forum. Sadly, many are met on such forums who are in despair of the very Biblicism that seems to predominate here. Here, even where the Bible is not considered "inerrant", any theology based upon appears to be considered so.

Such people on these other forums, as far as I can judge, are not "insincere". They seek to reject nothing. But what is the point in seeking to say such here?

As I have sought to say, many devout Christians who have "knelt" and asked for bread, are now opening their hearts to those of other Faiths, or to what could be called a more open understanding of their own Faith.

All the best to you all.

Bye.

 

[Randy]

randy, so you assume you "steer", and choose the words that others need, and that others need to "seek"......and obviously find just what you have "found".

Sorry, this forum was a little bit of an experiment. I have long been on "Inter-faith" forums and a Progressive Christian Forum. Sadly, many are met on such forums who are in despair of the very Biblicism that seems to predominate here. Here, even where the Bible is not considered "inerrant", any theology based upon appears to be considered so.

Such people on these other forums, as far as I can judge, are not "insincere". They seek to reject nothing. But what is the point in seeking to say such here?

As I have sought to say, many devout Christians who have "knelt" and asked for bread, are now opening their hearts to those of other Faiths, or to what could be called a more open understanding of their own Faith.

All the best to you all.

Bye.

"Jesus as "a" way, Christ as "the" way."

I have no other answer to give you. Jesus is the gatekeeper and no one gets to the Father except by Him. Most Chriatians I know would state that as that is what JESUS taught. He is our Lord and the one who judges. The NT does't teach what you seek so why would you listen to one who proclaims faith in Jesus and teaches that one may willfully deny Jesus and still have hope of life beyond the life of the body? You set the premise "Jesus as the way" And as I also stated my perfection training is from the teachings of Jesus who taught all to be like His Heavenly Father. Jesus alone has the words of eternal life.

Randy

 

[Randy]

Do you not understand?

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[Randy]

Getting the Christian perspective?

I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.â€

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man,[d] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[e] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

 

[tessiewebb]

Do you not understand?

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Wish this forum had a "thanks" button, because I have nothing to add to your posts, complete as they are, except to thank you for posting them.

 

[Randy]

Wish this forum had a "thanks" button, because I have nothing to add to your posts, complete as they are, except to thank you for posting them.

I think you loved those words because I gave them what Jesus stated. Interesting that that person didn't post who he follows. I like our foundation as its a rock that doesn't move.

Randy

 

[tessiewebb]

I think you loved those words because I gave them what Jesus stated. Interesting that that person didn't post who he follows. I like our foundation as its a rock that doesn't move.

Randy

I agree, it was that and that you published His words in full. How any one could imagine there is any other "way" astounds me. But then the human mind astounds me in its capacity for self-aggrandizement. But of course John 10:1 says "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." A thief or a robber, either one, is a perverse person so it shouldn't come as a surprise to me or anyone else that those who want to negate Jesus' work on the Cross would have perverse arguments for what they do.

 

[Cobblers Apprentice]

I agree, it was that and that you published His words in full. How any one could imagine there is any other "way" astounds me. But then the human mind astounds me in its capacity for self-aggrandizement. But of course John 10:1 says "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." A thief or a robber, either one, is a perverse person so it shouldn't come as a surprise to me or anyone else that those who want to negate Jesus' work on the Cross would have perverse arguments for what they do.

tessie, hi again, I just popped back to pick up on what may have been said. I feel I must answer this, as you imply that I am a "thief" and a "robber" and that my arguments are "perverse", and that in fact I am a perverse person.

The fact is that many devout Christians, familiar with the full depth and strength of the Christian Faith, are now exploring the whole world of Faith. It is called "dialogue". They have looked back though history, and look around our world today, and realise that there can be no peace on earth until there is some degree of peace between the various religions. OK, for you such a view is "perverse", and no doubt you will speak of there being only "one truth" and therefore that there can be no peace between truth and a lie. So be it. The very same argument is made by those who quote other "holy" books, whose truth is different from your own.

Those of the Christian Faith who understand the work of Christ as being broader and wider than that claimed for it by Protestant Biblical Fundamentalism are perfectly familiar with all those verses from the NT that those like yourself quote to "prove" that only your own "way" is legitimate. No one is asking you to betray anything; all that is being asked is that you perhaps - before using language like "perverse" and "thief" and "robber" - you actually seek to read one or two books by such Christians, whose love of Christ is as deep as your own, who yet see the "way" as being wider that you appear to think it is. As the book of Proverbs says (18:13) "Those who answer a thing before they hear it, it is a shame and a folly unto them."

That is all that is asked.

Anyway, this time I will not be back. Even to peep!

All the best

 

[Randy]

The fact is that many devout Christians, familiar with the full depth and strength of the Christian Faith, are now exploring the whole world of Faith. It is called "dialogue".

As I stated before the NT doesn't teach what you want to explore. That is you can willfully reject Jesus as Christ and Lord and have eternal life. So as I asked why would you listen to those who proclaim faith in Jesus and state what you want us to state that one can reject Jesus as Christ and Lord and have life beyond the life of the body?

Jesus taught perfection but never backed down or negated the need to come to Him to have life. Its not for you to chose how to forgive sin.

Our book? Well you must believe it to be lies as those testimonies made in the complied testimony (NT) can't be mistaken. Your unbelief doesn't make those testimonies a lie.

It's not productive to argue with you for my hope would be that you could see the truth and reach out to Jesus for life. Thats not what you are seeking.

So I wish you well even though I know where the path you takes ends up. You have freewill to choose.

Randy

 

[tessiewebb]

....OK, for you such a view is "perverse", and no doubt you will speak of there being only "one truth" and therefore that there can be no peace between truth and a lie.

EXACTLY! and it is not only for me that such a view is perverse. It is not only perverse either. It is ungodly and damning to the ones like you who are encouraged to consider such nonsense. You speak of "exploring", it is more like seeking some way around the obvious answer that there is but one way to salvation and that is through the Cross of Jesus Christ. Jesus asked His disciples once when some left because His saying was "too hard" for them, "Will you leave also?" One of the disciples answered, "Where would we go? You have the words of Life". Amen!