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DivineNames
Guest
Jesus/Buddha
Compare with-
This looks like a strong parallel in the teachings of Jesus and Buddha.
Compare with-
This looks like a strong parallel in the teachings of Jesus and Buddha.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Soma-Sight
Guest
Point taken...
Relic posted A LOT of info and I was reading some of the links posted but missed that part obviously.
It still mentions NOTHING in regards to
Has Relic read
The Bhagavad Gita
Upanishads
Dhammapada
Soma-Sight does not read astrology
I avoid the occult in the satanic sense
THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE "NEW AGE" AND EASTERN RELIGIONS!
Of course Fundy Christians view alomost ANY philosophy different than mainstream Christianity to be occult!
I just picked up a book from the library that deals with the psychology of Jesus and His dealings with people.
It is an older book called "Jesus and Logotherapy".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007E ... oding=UTF8
Most Christian Apologetic material can be summed up in one word...
PARANOIA.
I learned this best from the SDA's.
Everything outside most Protestant paradigms is viewed as "occultic" and "evil'.
I do enjoy reading about how the early Church was formed and how the canon was decided upon.
It was not some "overnight" thing like a Bible falling from Heaven. There was a lot of debate over who Jesus was and what His relationship to man is. There was debate over which books were inspired and which were not (according to the doctrine being promoted). Then I was reading about the debates of the Trinitarian concept. And of course Origen is an interesting chap. Anyone who writes 1000's of book's has to be even if labeled a "heretic"..... lol
:
D
DivineNames
Guest
Relic said:
One obscure statement like that proves nothing. There are other statements in the Bible which some would claim involve "scientific" error.
Relic said:
The Bible was talking about sacrifice, and blood being the part of an animal sacrifice which atones for sin. There is no sign (as far as I know) of anything which would suggest scientific knowledge.
Relic said:
Well Muslims are certainly willing to make claims about all the "science" in the Quran. So they use the same tactic. As with the Bible, there doesn't appear to be any substance to the claims.
Relic said:
And we know how dubious Bible prophecy fulfillment is.
Relic said:
Yeah, amazing book...
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DivineNames,
It is clear you are anti-christ in most of the things you post on this forum. Your rebuttles are nonsense. You don't see or understand from a biblical perspective and you bash the bible. :-?
Also, Please do not paste clips out of the articles I posted as if they were my own quotes.
I do my best not to plagiarize and I do my best to make sure that when I use someone elses articles to bring a point across I provide the author and the source of it. I would appreciate it if you would please be clear as to exactly whom you are quoting.
.
DivineNames,
It is clear you are anti-christ in most of the things you post on this forum. Your rebuttles are nonsense. You don't see or understand from a biblical perspective and you bash the bible. :-?
Also, Please do not paste clips out of the articles I posted as if they were my own quotes.
I do my best not to plagiarize and I do my best to make sure that when I use someone elses articles to bring a point across I provide the author and the source of it. I would appreciate it if you would please be clear as to exactly whom you are quoting.
.
.
According to this chart http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre00timeline.html
535 BC Buddhism started in China by Siddhartha Guatama Buddha
And approximately 2216 years before that..... around 2222 BC Abraham was born.
Makes no big deal to me when Buddhism was founded. Just goes to show it isn't all that miraculous that the teachings of Buddhist are similar to the parables in the old testament writings.
Some charts are slightly different give or take a 100 years or so, but According to that chart listed above, the exodus took place around 1502 BC. They didn't reach the promised land until 40 years later 1462 BC.
Around 627 BC the Prophet Jeremiah lived. That's 623 years or so before the Buddhist religion was founded.
So what's your point?
The Buddhist didn't start teaching anything new. :roll:
SomaSight,
It matters not what discussion we have about the variety of Buddhist and Hindu teachings. Truth be told.... Jesus is the ONLY WAY and THE ONLY PATH and THE ONLY TRUTH.
I'll not stray from the doctrines of Jesus, nor will I stray away from the foundation Christ Jesus has placed in my life. HE IS MY ROCK AND MY SALVATION. There is no other that can even come close to the truth that is IN HIM.
JESUS IS GOD. God is my teacher and if Jesus is God come in the flesh, JESUS/GOD IS MY TEACHER. HE ALONE IS THE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT THAT I AM GUIDED BY. If you don't recognize that then go and listen to your Buddhist teachings and get all messed up and taken off track onto some paths that Buddha says to follow. I'll not be veered off of Christ Jesus anymore! Buddha isn't my teacher nor is Buddha my mediator. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY PATH I NEED TO FOCUS ON. No lotus position or special meditation or story of a Blue Boy Krishna will get me any closer to enlightenment. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life.
You said it yourself as to what the Buddha says from the Kalama Sutta . :roll:
And reject is exactly what I have done. Jesus is my teacher, not some monk who doesn't even recognize that Jesus is the messiah/savior that was written of in scriptures of the Hebrews who came out of Egypt. It took many generations for the Hebrews to be cleansed from the influence of the Egyptian culture and their gods. The history shows how difficult it is to let go of false gods once you have made it a habit in your life. The hebrews who made that golden calf did so out of their being influenced by pagan practices of the Egyptians. They didn't make it over the the promised land because they did not want to let go of their complaining and looking back at what they had in comparison to where they were in the wilderness. They were refusing to look forward to the PROMISE. Instead they wallowed in the past pushed aside the hope and lacked faith.
Christianity is based on a NEW COVENANT. NOT SOME OLD PAGAN INFLUENCE.
Galatians 1:6-7
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[/b]
Buddha from the Kalama Sutta says to reject his teachings in favor of what you find on your own. He also says to not go by scripture. Is he referring to any old scripture? I would think he means any writings.
But The New Testament teaches us the opposite of what this Kalama Sutta writing does!
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But Jesus says to follow him. and says that he who has not him has not the Father. Jesus NEVER tells anyone to reject his teachings!
I'll take the truth of Jesus over what Buddha says. Thank you!
Kalama Sutta says to reject his teachings over what you find out for yourself. :o But then other Buddhist writings say this:
Those who have sufficient faith in me, sufficient love for for me, are all headed for heaven or beyond.
Majjhima Nikaya 22.47
If that isn't a huge contradiction between the Buddhist writings if I ever saw one. :-?
My LORD AND SAVIOR fills my cup running over without my having to go through some silly stance and meditation of concentrating on nothingness and in believing all is illusion and nothing is real. The many different Buddhists and Hindu priests and gods contradict the teachings of the Judeo Christian bible.
Most all religions are based on some similarities in the teachings of moral disciplines. Just because some of the writings of Buddhism are similar to the teachings of Jesus doesn't prove anything except that moral disciplines are important to each culture. Moral teachings in different cultures doesn't always prove that their particular teachings are of JHVH GD. Even the devil knows who GOD is! and the devil does come disguised as an angel of light. Judeo Christian scriptures do not teach to reject the teachings of Jesus if we so happen to find something on our own.... as the Kalama Sutta says to do.
Judeo Christian scriptures teach differently than Buddhist teachings and do not contradict themselves by leading you onto many different paths to enlightenment. Judeo Christian teachings teach there is only ONE PATH and it is STRAIGHT AND NARROW. Not an illusion of some sort nor is it a path that tells me to chant OOOOOOHMS all day long.
Galatians 1:6-7
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[/b]
Truth is truth, you can't chance the truth of the words of Jesus when he says.....
John 14:5-6
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Enough has been given here. This is what can turn into another one of those endless debates which is not much different than the other debates on this forum which compare Christianity with some other religion as the topic. :-? This discussion isn't going anywhere with those who insist that it's okay to merge religions.
So if these people who insist on taking on Buddhism as a means of "enlightenment" and continue to ignore the teachings of Jesus, then what else is there to do but to leave them to their own way and let them find out for them selves that Jesus is not recognized by any of the Buddhist teachings.
The modern day Adjustments in buddhism have allowed Christians to merge into their Buddhism, but it doesn't mean that Christianity is of the Buddist religion, at all! Buddhism doesn't even recognize Jesus as Lord and Savior! Jesus said HE IS THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. and these people who claim they are Christians need to FOLLOW JESUS, He says there is only ONE PATH AND IT IS NARROW. not many paths like that of the Buddist. some have an 8 fold path to enlightenment. These people need not follow some Buddhist teachings that only steer you on many different paths.
Buddists "... they refuse to abandon their own effort to reach for enlightenment and surrender to follow God's path. Salvation is not a philosophy or conduct, not even a "Chrsitian" philosophy or code of conduct. We can only accept God's salvations by trusting and obeying Jesus, for as Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Truth is truth, you can't chance the truth of the words of Jesus
John 14:5-6
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. .
Be not unequally yoked.
Though they may be similar,
Buddhist teachings are not the teachings of Jesus.
* Be not unequally yoked!
* You can't serve two masters.
* A house divided will not stand.
* I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus said it! I will not veer away from it! :roll: :-D
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SomaSight said:
According to this chart http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre00timeline.html
535 BC Buddhism started in China by Siddhartha Guatama Buddha
And approximately 2216 years before that..... around 2222 BC Abraham was born.
Makes no big deal to me when Buddhism was founded. Just goes to show it isn't all that miraculous that the teachings of Buddhist are similar to the parables in the old testament writings.
Some charts are slightly different give or take a 100 years or so, but According to that chart listed above, the exodus took place around 1502 BC. They didn't reach the promised land until 40 years later 1462 BC.
Around 627 BC the Prophet Jeremiah lived. That's 623 years or so before the Buddhist religion was founded.
So what's your point?
The Buddhist didn't start teaching anything new. :roll:
SomaSight,
It matters not what discussion we have about the variety of Buddhist and Hindu teachings. Truth be told.... Jesus is the ONLY WAY and THE ONLY PATH and THE ONLY TRUTH.
I'll not stray from the doctrines of Jesus, nor will I stray away from the foundation Christ Jesus has placed in my life. HE IS MY ROCK AND MY SALVATION. There is no other that can even come close to the truth that is IN HIM.
JESUS IS GOD. God is my teacher and if Jesus is God come in the flesh, JESUS/GOD IS MY TEACHER. HE ALONE IS THE FATHER SON AND HOLY SPIRIT THAT I AM GUIDED BY. If you don't recognize that then go and listen to your Buddhist teachings and get all messed up and taken off track onto some paths that Buddha says to follow. I'll not be veered off of Christ Jesus anymore! Buddha isn't my teacher nor is Buddha my mediator. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY PATH I NEED TO FOCUS ON. No lotus position or special meditation or story of a Blue Boy Krishna will get me any closer to enlightenment. Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life.
not-one-not-two said:
You said it yourself as to what the Buddha says from the Kalama Sutta . :roll:
And reject is exactly what I have done. Jesus is my teacher, not some monk who doesn't even recognize that Jesus is the messiah/savior that was written of in scriptures of the Hebrews who came out of Egypt. It took many generations for the Hebrews to be cleansed from the influence of the Egyptian culture and their gods. The history shows how difficult it is to let go of false gods once you have made it a habit in your life. The hebrews who made that golden calf did so out of their being influenced by pagan practices of the Egyptians. They didn't make it over the the promised land because they did not want to let go of their complaining and looking back at what they had in comparison to where they were in the wilderness. They were refusing to look forward to the PROMISE. Instead they wallowed in the past pushed aside the hope and lacked faith.
Christianity is based on a NEW COVENANT. NOT SOME OLD PAGAN INFLUENCE.
Galatians 1:6-7
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[/b]
Buddha from the Kalama Sutta says to reject his teachings in favor of what you find on your own. He also says to not go by scripture. Is he referring to any old scripture? I would think he means any writings.
But The New Testament teaches us the opposite of what this Kalama Sutta writing does!
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But Jesus says to follow him. and says that he who has not him has not the Father. Jesus NEVER tells anyone to reject his teachings!
I'll take the truth of Jesus over what Buddha says. Thank you!
Kalama Sutta says to reject his teachings over what you find out for yourself. :o But then other Buddhist writings say this:
Those who have sufficient faith in me, sufficient love for for me, are all headed for heaven or beyond.
Majjhima Nikaya 22.47
If that isn't a huge contradiction between the Buddhist writings if I ever saw one. :-?
My LORD AND SAVIOR fills my cup running over without my having to go through some silly stance and meditation of concentrating on nothingness and in believing all is illusion and nothing is real. The many different Buddhists and Hindu priests and gods contradict the teachings of the Judeo Christian bible.
Most all religions are based on some similarities in the teachings of moral disciplines. Just because some of the writings of Buddhism are similar to the teachings of Jesus doesn't prove anything except that moral disciplines are important to each culture. Moral teachings in different cultures doesn't always prove that their particular teachings are of JHVH GD. Even the devil knows who GOD is! and the devil does come disguised as an angel of light. Judeo Christian scriptures do not teach to reject the teachings of Jesus if we so happen to find something on our own.... as the Kalama Sutta says to do.
Judeo Christian scriptures teach differently than Buddhist teachings and do not contradict themselves by leading you onto many different paths to enlightenment. Judeo Christian teachings teach there is only ONE PATH and it is STRAIGHT AND NARROW. Not an illusion of some sort nor is it a path that tells me to chant OOOOOOHMS all day long.
Galatians 1:6-7
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.[/b]
Truth is truth, you can't chance the truth of the words of Jesus when he says.....
John 14:5-6
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Enough has been given here. This is what can turn into another one of those endless debates which is not much different than the other debates on this forum which compare Christianity with some other religion as the topic. :-? This discussion isn't going anywhere with those who insist that it's okay to merge religions.
So if these people who insist on taking on Buddhism as a means of "enlightenment" and continue to ignore the teachings of Jesus, then what else is there to do but to leave them to their own way and let them find out for them selves that Jesus is not recognized by any of the Buddhist teachings.
The modern day Adjustments in buddhism have allowed Christians to merge into their Buddhism, but it doesn't mean that Christianity is of the Buddist religion, at all! Buddhism doesn't even recognize Jesus as Lord and Savior! Jesus said HE IS THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. and these people who claim they are Christians need to FOLLOW JESUS, He says there is only ONE PATH AND IT IS NARROW. not many paths like that of the Buddist. some have an 8 fold path to enlightenment. These people need not follow some Buddhist teachings that only steer you on many different paths.
Buddists "... they refuse to abandon their own effort to reach for enlightenment and surrender to follow God's path. Salvation is not a philosophy or conduct, not even a "Chrsitian" philosophy or code of conduct. We can only accept God's salvations by trusting and obeying Jesus, for as Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Truth is truth, you can't chance the truth of the words of Jesus
John 14:5-6
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. .
Be not unequally yoked.
Though they may be similar,
Buddhist teachings are not the teachings of Jesus.
* Be not unequally yoked!
* You can't serve two masters.
* A house divided will not stand.
* I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus said it! I will not veer away from it! :roll: :-D
.
D
DivineNames
Guest
Relic said:
OK
Relic said:
In fact, what you posted was nonsense. If you disagree then you need to provide some argument against what I said.
D
DivineNames
Guest
Relic said:
John Hick's (actually provisional) pluralism is a far more sensible approach to the notion of salvation-
"Suppose we think of salvation in a much more concrete and empirically observable way as an actual change in men and women from natural self-centredness to, in theistic terms, God-centredness, or in more general terms, a new orientation centred in the Ultimate, the Real, as conceived and experienced within one's own tradition. Salvation in this sense is the central concern of each of the great world religions. Within Christianity it is conceptualized and experienced as the state in which Paul could say, 'It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me' (Gal. 2:20, RSV). Within Judaism it is conceived and experienced as the joy and responsibility of life lived in accordance with God's Torah. Within Islam it is conceived and experienced as a personal self-surrender to God in a life lived according to God's revealed commands. With Advaitic Hinduism it is conceived and experienced as a transcending of the ego and discovery of unity with the eternal reality of Brahman. Within Buddhism it is conceived and experienced as a loss of the ego point of view in a discovery of the Buddha nature of the universal interdependent process of which we are all part. And in each case this transformation of human existence from self-centredness to Reality-centredness is reached by a moral and spiritual path.
So if we understand by salvation the transition to a life centred in the Divine, the Ultimate, the Real, we can properly look about us for the signs of it. To what extent is this transformation actually taking place among Christians, among Jews, among Muslims, among Hindus, among Buddhists? I suggest that, so far as we can tell, it is taking place to much the same extent within each of these traditions. It is true that we have no organized evidence or statistics to establish this. But we can properly put the issue the other way round. If anyone asserts that Christians in general are morally and spiritually better human beings than Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or Buddhists in general, the onus is on them to produce the evidence for this. It cannot simply be affirmed a priori, without regard to the concrete realities of human life."
John Hick (2001) “The Theological Challenge of Religious Pluralism†in John Hick & Brian Hebblethwaite (eds) Christianity and Other Religions: Selected Readings (Glasgow: Oneworld Publications)
D
DivineNames
Guest
Relic said:
Well perhaps you shouldn't make your posts such a mess.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Could not have put this better myself.......
RELIC....
Have you actually read...
The Bhagavad Gita
Dhammapda
Upanishads
Vedas
????????
I know you have "been there and done that" as far as your supposed eastern religion days but SPECIFICALLY have you read these books?
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Relic?
You there?
I appreciate your views and really am curious on the above question?
You there?
I appreciate your views and really am curious on the above question?
D
DivineNames
Guest
Free said:
And I am sure you have an open mind...
D
DivineNames
Guest
"But you will say, Do not all Christians desire to have Christ to be their savior? Yes. But here is the deceit; all would have Christ to be their savior in the next world, and to help them into heaven when they die, by his power, and merits with God. But this is not willing Christ to be thy savior; for his salvation, if it is had, must be had in this world; if he save thee, it must be done in this life, by changing and altering all that is within thee, by helping thee to a new heart, as he helped the blind to see, the lame to walk, and the dumb to speak. For to have salvation from Christ, is nothing else but to be made like unto him; it is to have his humility and meekness, his mortification and self-denial, his renunciation of the spirit, wisdom, and honors of this world, his love of God, his desire of doing God's will, and seeking only his honor. To have these tempers formed and begotten in thy heart, is to have salvation from Christ. But if thou willest not to have these tempers brought forth in thee, if thy faith and desire does not seek, and cry to Christ for them in the same reality, as the lame asked to walk, and the blind to see, then thou must be said to be unwilling to have Christ to be thy savior."
"all that is grace, redemption, salvation, sanctification, spiritual life, and the new birth, is nothing else but so much of the life and operation of God found again in the soul. It is man come back again into his center or place in God, from whence he had broken off."
"Now there is but one possible way for man to attain this salvation, or life of God in the soul. There is not one for the Jew, another for a Christian, and a third for the heathen. No; God is one, human nature is one, salvation is one, and the way to it is one; and that is, the desire of the soul turned to God. When this desire is alive and breaks forth in any creature under heaven, then the lost sheep is found, and the shepherd has it upon his shoulders. Through this desire the poor prodigal son leaves his husks and swine, and hastes to his father: it is because of this desire, that the father sees the son, while yet afar off, that he runs out to meet him, falls on his neck, and kisses him. See here how plainly we are taught, that no sooner is this desire arisen, and in motion towards God, but the operation of God's Spirit answers to it, cherishes and welcomes its first beginnings, signified by the father's seeing, and having compassion on his son, whilst yet afar off, that is, in the first beginnings of his desire. Thus does this desire do all, it brings the soul to God, and God into the soul, it unites with God, it co-operates with God, and is one life with God. Suppose this desire not to be alive, not in motion either in a Jew, or a Christian, and then all the sacrifices, the service, the worship either of the Law, or the gospel, are but dead works, that bring no life into the soul, nor beget any union between God and it. Suppose this desire to be awakened, and fixed upon God, though in souls that never heard either of the Law or the gospel, and then the divine life, or operation of God, enters into them, and the new birth in Christ is formed in those who never heard of his name. And these are they "that shall come from the East, and from the West and sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, in the kingdom of God.""
William Law, The Spirit of Prayer
http://www.ccel.org/l/law/prayer/prayer.html
William law would attribute such salvation to the historical Jesus of course, but anyone can see that what John Hick is talking about is exactly what is in play. I could find plenty of other examples from Christianity.
"all that is grace, redemption, salvation, sanctification, spiritual life, and the new birth, is nothing else but so much of the life and operation of God found again in the soul. It is man come back again into his center or place in God, from whence he had broken off."
"Now there is but one possible way for man to attain this salvation, or life of God in the soul. There is not one for the Jew, another for a Christian, and a third for the heathen. No; God is one, human nature is one, salvation is one, and the way to it is one; and that is, the desire of the soul turned to God. When this desire is alive and breaks forth in any creature under heaven, then the lost sheep is found, and the shepherd has it upon his shoulders. Through this desire the poor prodigal son leaves his husks and swine, and hastes to his father: it is because of this desire, that the father sees the son, while yet afar off, that he runs out to meet him, falls on his neck, and kisses him. See here how plainly we are taught, that no sooner is this desire arisen, and in motion towards God, but the operation of God's Spirit answers to it, cherishes and welcomes its first beginnings, signified by the father's seeing, and having compassion on his son, whilst yet afar off, that is, in the first beginnings of his desire. Thus does this desire do all, it brings the soul to God, and God into the soul, it unites with God, it co-operates with God, and is one life with God. Suppose this desire not to be alive, not in motion either in a Jew, or a Christian, and then all the sacrifices, the service, the worship either of the Law, or the gospel, are but dead works, that bring no life into the soul, nor beget any union between God and it. Suppose this desire to be awakened, and fixed upon God, though in souls that never heard either of the Law or the gospel, and then the divine life, or operation of God, enters into them, and the new birth in Christ is formed in those who never heard of his name. And these are they "that shall come from the East, and from the West and sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, in the kingdom of God.""
William Law, The Spirit of Prayer
http://www.ccel.org/l/law/prayer/prayer.html
William law would attribute such salvation to the historical Jesus of course, but anyone can see that what John Hick is talking about is exactly what is in play. I could find plenty of other examples from Christianity.
.
Dharma Data: God, gods
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd37.htm
Buddhism could be described as a non-theistic religion in that it considers belief in an omniscient, omnipotent creator God to be both untenable and unnecessary. The Buddha himself and many later Buddhist thinkers used a variety of arguments, many of them similar to those used in Western philosophy, to highlight the problems with the God idea. God's supposed omniscience implies man's predetermination which makes the idea of trying to do good and to avoid evil meaningless. The existence of an omnipotent loving God is negated by the terrible suffering that is found in the world. The supposed miracles, divine interventions and visions that are used to prove God's existence could just as easily be given some other explanation. Each religion affirms the existence of its God while denying the existence of all alternative Gods. If we accept one religion's argument for the existence of its God then we should accept the other religious arguments also, as they are all basically the same. And if we do this we would have to believe in many Gods.
If on the other hand, we accept one religious argument against the existence of alternative Gods then we should accept the other religious arguments as they too are basically the same. And if we did this we would have to believe that there were no Gods etc. etc. But far more important than these logical arguments is the fact that the origins of the universe, the moral order and man's destiny and salvation can be satisfactorily explained without the need to introduce the idea of a supreme being that is responsible for them all.
Buddhism does however accept the existence of a heaven, one of the six realms of existence, in which dwell many lesser gods. As these are neither omnipotent or omniscient or even particularly good or wise, they may be able to help humans obtain material benefits but they cannot help in the quest for Nirvana. Only in the Tantrayana tradition are gods seen as being spiritually superior to humans.
Nyanaponika, Buddhism and the God Idea. Kandy, 1981;
H. Von Glasenapp, Buddhism - A Non Theistic Religion. London 19 ;
M.M.J. Marasinghe, Gods in Early Buddhism. Colombo, 1974.
:o
.
Dharma Data: God, gods
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd37.htm
Buddhism could be described as a non-theistic religion in that it considers belief in an omniscient, omnipotent creator God to be both untenable and unnecessary. The Buddha himself and many later Buddhist thinkers used a variety of arguments, many of them similar to those used in Western philosophy, to highlight the problems with the God idea. God's supposed omniscience implies man's predetermination which makes the idea of trying to do good and to avoid evil meaningless. The existence of an omnipotent loving God is negated by the terrible suffering that is found in the world. The supposed miracles, divine interventions and visions that are used to prove God's existence could just as easily be given some other explanation. Each religion affirms the existence of its God while denying the existence of all alternative Gods. If we accept one religion's argument for the existence of its God then we should accept the other religious arguments also, as they are all basically the same. And if we do this we would have to believe in many Gods.
If on the other hand, we accept one religious argument against the existence of alternative Gods then we should accept the other religious arguments as they too are basically the same. And if we did this we would have to believe that there were no Gods etc. etc. But far more important than these logical arguments is the fact that the origins of the universe, the moral order and man's destiny and salvation can be satisfactorily explained without the need to introduce the idea of a supreme being that is responsible for them all.
Buddhism does however accept the existence of a heaven, one of the six realms of existence, in which dwell many lesser gods. As these are neither omnipotent or omniscient or even particularly good or wise, they may be able to help humans obtain material benefits but they cannot help in the quest for Nirvana. Only in the Tantrayana tradition are gods seen as being spiritually superior to humans.
Nyanaponika, Buddhism and the God Idea. Kandy, 1981;
H. Von Glasenapp, Buddhism - A Non Theistic Religion. London 19 ;
M.M.J. Marasinghe, Gods in Early Buddhism. Colombo, 1974.
:o
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According to a 1990 Census, over 800,000 Americans point to Japan as their nation of origin. The vast majority of these people are professing Buddhists. At the same time thousands of non-Asian North Americans have adopted Buddhism as their religion. Due in part to their inclusiveness and support of the interfaith movement, Buddhism has become very popular. Yet, many Christians are woefully uninformed as to what the Buddhists actually believe. Christian leaders, instead of boldly proclaiming the gospel of Christ, have joined the ranks of the "enlightened", and are teaching their congregations that there should be harmony and cooperation between Buddhist doctrine and the Christian faith. If you study what Buddhism teaches, however, you must conclude that there can be no harmony between the two. They are opposite in almost every way and one would have to deny Christ and the Bible in order to embrace Buddhism as a religion that also leads to God and salvation. Here we will examine these vast differences, compare Buddhism with the truth of the Bible, and provide information that will help you share the message of Christ with Buddhists.
http://contenderministries.org/buddhism.php
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According to a 1990 Census, over 800,000 Americans point to Japan as their nation of origin. The vast majority of these people are professing Buddhists. At the same time thousands of non-Asian North Americans have adopted Buddhism as their religion. Due in part to their inclusiveness and support of the interfaith movement, Buddhism has become very popular. Yet, many Christians are woefully uninformed as to what the Buddhists actually believe. Christian leaders, instead of boldly proclaiming the gospel of Christ, have joined the ranks of the "enlightened", and are teaching their congregations that there should be harmony and cooperation between Buddhist doctrine and the Christian faith. If you study what Buddhism teaches, however, you must conclude that there can be no harmony between the two. They are opposite in almost every way and one would have to deny Christ and the Bible in order to embrace Buddhism as a religion that also leads to God and salvation. Here we will examine these vast differences, compare Buddhism with the truth of the Bible, and provide information that will help you share the message of Christ with Buddhists.
http://contenderministries.org/buddhism.php
.
.
Soma-Sight,
I'm really sorry, that I don't have my own words written down from my past studies of the eastern religions and all that other s-t-u-f-f. In order for me to get into detail of it all I would have to drag all those dusty old books down from out of my attic, flip through them and find references to all that s-t-u-f-f on the The Bhagavad Gita, Dhammapda, Upanishads, Vedas, Krishna, I-Ching, Sacred Path of the Warrior, T'ai Chi Chi'uan, Yoga, and all that s-t-u-f-f.... Book from Depak Choprah, Joseph Campbell, Shakti Gawain, Thomas Cleary, and many others that have oriental and Eastern Indian names I can't think of right now, I'd have to go through all that s-t-u-f-f and sit at my computer and type all night long in order to refresh my mind on all that s-t-u-f-f.
I quit that s-t-u-f-f a long time ago, why would I want to take a refresher course so I could have some lengthy conversation with you about it?
I walked away from that stuff. Why would I even want to remember all of those meditations and verses IF they don't serve me well?
That is not what I come online to do. It takes me all too long to reply to many of these thread on this forum, and quite frankly.... It is getting to the point where I am coming to the conclusion that these so called "debates" here result in nothing but endless circles of bickering without anyone coming to any change of heart or belief. Especially when it comes to discussing topics such as This Religion vs. That religion or, This belief vs. That belief. It's nothing but bickering between people with different beliefs. And those who are of the same belief back each other up and it's still just a bickering of opposing sides.
So that being said, I find it absolutely acceptable to present articles that are pretty much in agreement with what I believe. And if some of you don't like people pasting articles here then that's your problem. I have no qualms with others providing links and articles. and I have no problems with others doing so.
Oh, and by the way, Divine names .... I didn't copy and paste any parts of any articles in reply to that post you made to me. All I copied and pasted in reply to "you" were scriptures. All the rest of that post, were my own words. So Sir, no offense, but, you need to pay attention. I make it clear what words are mine and which are not. .
Anyway, back onto the topic... :D
If you guys think I'm going to spend endless hours of my time in this forum with having to prove to you what I have read or what I have not read in regards to Buddhism and the other Eastern Religions or what I have gone through in that experience, I am not going to do that. I told you that I have been there and done that. I didn't tell you that I chose to hold onto all that s-t-u-f-f and keep it fresh in my mind. So why should I have to reiterate all of it here for you SomaSight? Believe me, I have studied much of it .... And have read several books on yoga meditations, transcendental meditations.Ayurvedic medicine etc., all that aside from the occult that I studied. I studied back in the mid 70's through to the mid 80's . And you expect me to refresh my mind on the specifics of it? I retained more of the astrology and tarot than I did the studies in Eastern religion and meditations because I was paid to do astrology and tarot. I wasn't paid to keep up with my studies in those other meditations. And so, I'm not going to refresh it all just for the sake of keeping this conversation with you going. But what I will do is relay what conclusions I have come to from going that route. And that is all that matters to me. It matters not what Buddhist verse I have or have not read. Because I'll tell ya. When I was reading all that s-t-u-f-f it took me further and further away from Jesus! And that is not the route I wanted to continue on, so I stopped delving into it. I had enough of that s-t-u-f-f, and it didn't include the way of salvation through Jesus Christ as being the ONE AND ONLY WAY, TRUTH, And LIFE. So there you have it.
And to tell you the truth Soma-Sight, You probably find Buddhism fascinating because you have not come to see the end of that path, the dead end it leads to, as I have. You haven't completed your walk on that path that leads to nowhere (like all prodigal sons do) .
Believe me, it is all "non"sense and a huge diversion from the Truth that Jesus Christ taught.
There is a dead end in Buddhism, in that, it only leads you in circles of not finding any real solutions to lifes problems. Some Buddhist think nothing is real, that all is illusion. Much of Buddhism only seeks to find bliss in the state of Nirvana, but doesn't really deal with the root cause of sin, nor does it deal with solutions as is taught in the Judeo Christian teachings. Christ Jesus teaches only ONE Path, The Buddhists teach to take many roads, and there is no salvation in Buddhism, there is only karma which plays out in life and in each reincarnation of the persons life. Jesus Christ does not teach reincarnation. Jesus Christ teaches that after you die those who were born again, of and in the HOLY SPIRIT of CHRIST JESUS go to heaven. They are not born again in the flesh (as reincarnation teaches) , but have eternal life in heaven with Christ Jesus who is seated at the right hand of God . God the Father, God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit. Much of Buddhism does not teach these beliefs. Jesus did not teach about believing in many gods as the Hindus teach and Jesus did not teach about believing in taking many paths as the Buddhists do. JESUS taught about ONE GOD AND ONE PATH.
So when I present articles that are in agreement with my beliefs, I see no problem with doing so. Why should I have to spend my whole evening typing up what II believe if another person who has presented the same beliefs through an article they had already written ? I see nothing wrong with pasting someone else's article to get my point across.
And Soma_Sight since I know that what I say in my own words isn't going to sway you away from your path. You just want to drag this on and on .... I see no point in that.
Read what has already been written on the subject from an EX-BUDDHIST. I'm not qualified to carry on a conversation with you because I only delved into this for a couple of years. So take it from an EX-BUDDHIST Maybe he can convince you of the differences between Buddhism and Christianity.
And how very different they really are And how Buddhism is wanderings and meditations that lead to something other than an intimate relationship with Christ Jesus, in that it is impersonal and does not lead to the salvation in which Christ Jesus offers. It does not give you what Jesus does. And, it is not the PATH to take! It is a diversion away from the teachings of Christ Jesus. You can't merge the two. There is no way. You either meditate on one or the other. You can't take and meditate on verses from Buddha and think you are not in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus. Buddhism does not teach the same thing. even though some of the disciplines in moral are similar, Buddhism does not teach the truth as Jesus taught it. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man can come to the Father but by him. So who you gonna believe? Buddha who says to meditate on his teachings and then, on the other hand, goes and tells you to throw out his teachings if you find another path that leads you to truth which is different from what he taught you? Ar you going to believe in a Buddhist teaching that tells you that all is an illusion and then tells you words are meaningless? Or are you going to belief in Jesus that teaches the John 1:1 the word was with God and the word was God. and if Jesus is God then the word is Jesus.
Jesus is the only way Soma-Sight. You are fooling yourself if you think you can merge two different belief systems.
excerpt taken from the article written in reply to an email:
"You Don't Really Understand Buddhism " by Pat Zukeran
... I come from an island that is 80% Buddhist. My entire family clan has held to Buddhist teachings for hundreds of years. My parents and cousins remain in the Buddhist faith. I grew up under the teachings of the Buddhist temples near my house. I have been a member of the Young Buddhist Association. Therefore, i have many Buddhist friends including my own family members. I realize they look a lot like me, thank you very much. I am not driven to argue with them, only to share with them the greatest truth given by God to mankind. ...
Read the whole article here:
You Don't Really Understand Buddhism (Pat Zukeran replies to email)
http://www.probe.org/content/view/220/47/
Read this article:
Buddhism by Pat Zukeran
PDF FILE
http://evidenceandanswers.com/articles/buddhism.pdf
WEB PAGE
http://www.probe.org/content/view/64/0/
Print:
http://www.probe.org/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=0&pop=1&page=0
And this article:
I want to know more about Buddhism, but your Christianity is garbage! (Pat Zukerman replies to email)
http://www.probe.org/content/view/219/47/
Also,an archive of many of his articles can be read at http://www.probe.org ministries and on his radio show web page:
http://evidenceandanswers.com/articlecategories.html
His Profile:
http://www.probe.org/content/view/1028/41/
Pat Zukeran
Author, teacher, national and international speaker on apologetics, cults, world religions, Bible, theology, and current issues. Radio Talk show host of "Evidence and Answers," heard on The Word 100.7 FM Dallas, TX or on the web at http://www.evidenceandanswers.com
He has his own radio show. you can contact him at
Email: info@evidenceandanswers.com
or
E-mail: pzukeran@probe.org
Our mission is to proclaim the Gospel by presenting the compelling evidence for Christ, defend the Faith, and equip Christians to engage their culture for Christ. http://www.evidenceandanswers.com/
===================
So then, Soma-Sight,
If what in all the articles and postings I have presented here in this thread isn't enough for you to see that Buddhism isn't the path to take... then what use is there in going any further with this. You are going to have to read the Christian perspective on these things and compare your findings. If you are of the Judeo Christian belief you will not be wandering off into some other pasture to find your bliss, or nirvana or whatever it is in the void of yours you are trying to fill. If you don't believe the Christian perspective and you'd rather stick to sitting on some mountain side by yourself in deep meditation while high on pot, or not, that is up to you. I can't force you to believe anything. All I can do is provide information that pertains to this subject, and hope you see and come to realize why Buddhism is not the Path to take and, come to realize why even a person like Pat Zukerman who was raised Buddhist would preach that it is not the Way.
Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. No one should divert you from the Path of Jesus. Not even the old wise monk who teaches in some similarities but are mostly contradictions to the teachings of the salvation through Jesus Christ.
So if you refuse to see what I am saying here, then hear it from an EX-Buddhist....And read his articles.
And while your at it contact him and listen to his radio show over the internet if you so desire..... oooops!Some Buddhist teaching are that you do not have desires and that you eliminate them.
:
Well, Make up your mind. I've shown you enough of Scriptures and articles... I can't do anything else.
It matters not how much I've read on the subject for my self. What matters is that you don't stray from the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus is not the same or equal to any Buddha that says to find your own way.... But then, goes and shows you 8 different ways to take and says to have faith in him and to have sufficient love for him. Those who have sufficient faith in me, sufficient love for for me, are all headed for heaven or beyond. ~Majjhima Nikaya 22.47 ~ How contradicting is that? !!!!! :o:
.
.
Soma-Sight,
I'm really sorry, that I don't have my own words written down from my past studies of the eastern religions and all that other s-t-u-f-f. In order for me to get into detail of it all I would have to drag all those dusty old books down from out of my attic, flip through them and find references to all that s-t-u-f-f on the The Bhagavad Gita, Dhammapda, Upanishads, Vedas, Krishna, I-Ching, Sacred Path of the Warrior, T'ai Chi Chi'uan, Yoga, and all that s-t-u-f-f.... Book from Depak Choprah, Joseph Campbell, Shakti Gawain, Thomas Cleary, and many others that have oriental and Eastern Indian names I can't think of right now, I'd have to go through all that s-t-u-f-f and sit at my computer and type all night long in order to refresh my mind on all that s-t-u-f-f.
I quit that s-t-u-f-f a long time ago, why would I want to take a refresher course so I could have some lengthy conversation with you about it?
I walked away from that stuff. Why would I even want to remember all of those meditations and verses IF they don't serve me well?
That is not what I come online to do. It takes me all too long to reply to many of these thread on this forum, and quite frankly.... It is getting to the point where I am coming to the conclusion that these so called "debates" here result in nothing but endless circles of bickering without anyone coming to any change of heart or belief. Especially when it comes to discussing topics such as This Religion vs. That religion or, This belief vs. That belief. It's nothing but bickering between people with different beliefs. And those who are of the same belief back each other up and it's still just a bickering of opposing sides.
So that being said, I find it absolutely acceptable to present articles that are pretty much in agreement with what I believe. And if some of you don't like people pasting articles here then that's your problem. I have no qualms with others providing links and articles. and I have no problems with others doing so.
Oh, and by the way, Divine names
.... I didn't copy and paste any parts of any articles in reply to that post you made to me. All I copied and pasted in reply to "you" were scriptures. All the rest of that post, were my own words. So Sir, no offense, but, you need to pay attention. I make it clear what words are mine and which are not. .Anyway, back onto the topic... :D
If you guys think I'm going to spend endless hours of my time in this forum with having to prove to you what I have read or what I have not read in regards to Buddhism and the other Eastern Religions or what I have gone through in that experience, I am not going to do that. I told you that I have been there and done that. I didn't tell you that I chose to hold onto all that s-t-u-f-f and keep it fresh in my mind. So why should I have to reiterate all of it here for you SomaSight? Believe me, I have studied much of it .... And have read several books on yoga meditations, transcendental meditations.Ayurvedic medicine etc., all that aside from the occult that I studied. I studied back in the mid 70's through to the mid 80's . And you expect me to refresh my mind on the specifics of it? I retained more of the astrology and tarot than I did the studies in Eastern religion and meditations because I was paid to do astrology and tarot. I wasn't paid to keep up with my studies in those other meditations. And so, I'm not going to refresh it all just for the sake of keeping this conversation with you going. But what I will do is relay what conclusions I have come to from going that route. And that is all that matters to me. It matters not what Buddhist verse I have or have not read. Because I'll tell ya. When I was reading all that s-t-u-f-f it took me further and further away from Jesus! And that is not the route I wanted to continue on, so I stopped delving into it. I had enough of that s-t-u-f-f, and it didn't include the way of salvation through Jesus Christ as being the ONE AND ONLY WAY, TRUTH, And LIFE. So there you have it.
And to tell you the truth Soma-Sight, You probably find Buddhism fascinating because you have not come to see the end of that path, the dead end it leads to, as I have. You haven't completed your walk on that path that leads to nowhere (like all prodigal sons do) .
Believe me, it is all "non"sense and a huge diversion from the Truth that Jesus Christ taught.
There is a dead end in Buddhism, in that, it only leads you in circles of not finding any real solutions to lifes problems. Some Buddhist think nothing is real, that all is illusion. Much of Buddhism only seeks to find bliss in the state of Nirvana, but doesn't really deal with the root cause of sin, nor does it deal with solutions as is taught in the Judeo Christian teachings. Christ Jesus teaches only ONE Path, The Buddhists teach to take many roads, and there is no salvation in Buddhism, there is only karma which plays out in life and in each reincarnation of the persons life. Jesus Christ does not teach reincarnation. Jesus Christ teaches that after you die those who were born again, of and in the HOLY SPIRIT of CHRIST JESUS go to heaven. They are not born again in the flesh (as reincarnation teaches) , but have eternal life in heaven with Christ Jesus who is seated at the right hand of God . God the Father, God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit. Much of Buddhism does not teach these beliefs. Jesus did not teach about believing in many gods as the Hindus teach and Jesus did not teach about believing in taking many paths as the Buddhists do. JESUS taught about ONE GOD AND ONE PATH.
So when I present articles that are in agreement with my beliefs, I see no problem with doing so. Why should I have to spend my whole evening typing up what II believe if another person who has presented the same beliefs through an article they had already written ? I see nothing wrong with pasting someone else's article to get my point across.
And Soma_Sight since I know that what I say in my own words isn't going to sway you away from your path. You just want to drag this on and on .... I see no point in that.
Read what has already been written on the subject from an EX-BUDDHIST. I'm not qualified to carry on a conversation with you because I only delved into this for a couple of years. So take it from an EX-BUDDHIST
Maybe he can convince you of the differences between Buddhism and Christianity.And how very different they really are And how Buddhism is wanderings and meditations that lead to something other than an intimate relationship with Christ Jesus, in that it is impersonal and does not lead to the salvation in which Christ Jesus offers. It does not give you what Jesus does. And, it is not the PATH to take! It is a diversion away from the teachings of Christ Jesus. You can't merge the two. There is no way. You either meditate on one or the other. You can't take and meditate on verses from Buddha and think you are not in contradiction to the teachings of Jesus. Buddhism does not teach the same thing. even though some of the disciplines in moral are similar, Buddhism does not teach the truth as Jesus taught it. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man can come to the Father but by him. So who you gonna believe? Buddha who says to meditate on his teachings and then, on the other hand, goes and tells you to throw out his teachings if you find another path that leads you to truth which is different from what he taught you? Ar you going to believe in a Buddhist teaching that tells you that all is an illusion and then tells you words are meaningless? Or are you going to belief in Jesus that teaches the John 1:1 the word was with God and the word was God. and if Jesus is God then the word is Jesus.
Jesus is the only way Soma-Sight. You are fooling yourself if you think you can merge two different belief systems.
excerpt taken from the article written in reply to an email:
"You Don't Really Understand Buddhism " by Pat Zukeran
... I come from an island that is 80% Buddhist. My entire family clan has held to Buddhist teachings for hundreds of years. My parents and cousins remain in the Buddhist faith. I grew up under the teachings of the Buddhist temples near my house. I have been a member of the Young Buddhist Association. Therefore, i have many Buddhist friends including my own family members. I realize they look a lot like me, thank you very much. I am not driven to argue with them, only to share with them the greatest truth given by God to mankind. ...
Read the whole article here:
You Don't Really Understand Buddhism (Pat Zukeran replies to email)
http://www.probe.org/content/view/220/47/
Read this article:
Buddhism by Pat Zukeran
PDF FILE
http://evidenceandanswers.com/articles/buddhism.pdf
WEB PAGE
http://www.probe.org/content/view/64/0/
Print:
http://www.probe.org/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=0&pop=1&page=0
And this article:
I want to know more about Buddhism, but your Christianity is garbage! (Pat Zukerman replies to email)
http://www.probe.org/content/view/219/47/
Also,an archive of many of his articles can be read at http://www.probe.org ministries and on his radio show web page:
http://evidenceandanswers.com/articlecategories.html
His Profile:
http://www.probe.org/content/view/1028/41/
Pat Zukeran
Author, teacher, national and international speaker on apologetics, cults, world religions, Bible, theology, and current issues. Radio Talk show host of "Evidence and Answers," heard on The Word 100.7 FM Dallas, TX or on the web at http://www.evidenceandanswers.com
He has his own radio show. you can contact him at
Email: info@evidenceandanswers.com
or
E-mail: pzukeran@probe.org
Our mission is to proclaim the Gospel by presenting the compelling evidence for Christ, defend the Faith, and equip Christians to engage their culture for Christ. http://www.evidenceandanswers.com/
===================
So then, Soma-Sight,
If what in all the articles and postings I have presented here in this thread isn't enough for you to see that Buddhism isn't the path to take... then what use is there in going any further with this. You are going to have to read the Christian perspective on these things and compare your findings. If you are of the Judeo Christian belief you will not be wandering off into some other pasture to find your bliss, or nirvana or whatever it is in the void of yours you are trying to fill. If you don't believe the Christian perspective and you'd rather stick to sitting on some mountain side by yourself in deep meditation while high on pot, or not, that is up to you. I can't force you to believe anything. All I can do is provide information that pertains to this subject, and hope you see and come to realize why Buddhism is not the Path to take and, come to realize why even a person like Pat Zukerman who was raised Buddhist would preach that it is not the Way.
Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life. No one should divert you from the Path of Jesus. Not even the old wise monk who teaches in some similarities but are mostly contradictions to the teachings of the salvation through Jesus Christ.
So if you refuse to see what I am saying here, then hear it from an EX-Buddhist....And read his articles.
And while your at it contact him and listen to his radio show over the internet if you so desire..... oooops!Some Buddhist teaching are that you do not have desires and that you eliminate them.
: Well, Make up your mind. I've shown you enough of Scriptures and articles... I can't do anything else.
It matters not how much I've read on the subject for my self. What matters is that you don't stray from the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus is not the same or equal to any Buddha that says to find your own way.... But then, goes and shows you 8 different ways to take and says to have faith in him and to have sufficient love for him. Those who have sufficient faith in me, sufficient love for for me, are all headed for heaven or beyond. ~Majjhima Nikaya 22.47 ~ How contradicting is that? !!!!! :o
: .
.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Relic,
You type fast. Very fast.
Thank you for your reply and the links.
So it seems you HAVE read the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads? That is good. At least you have looked into the easterns religions before condeming them.
Here is a short list of "principles" of the eastern faith groups that I personally find to emulate a Christlike attitude and walk.
1. From what I have studied of eastern religions.... One Truth that stands out to me is the illusory nature of material reality. Nothing lasts. This is found in the NT as well when Jesus says to "store up treasures in Heaven that rust cannot destroy". Eastern religions teach the same thing. Dont hoard wealth and love. Give freely. Be compassionate.
Matt 25 (my favorite parable) also supports this view.
All that really matters in life is recognizing the illusion of material wealth and acting upon that in a Christlike "boddhisativic" Way.
2. Actions speak louder than words.
Here is a verse from the Dhammapada...
"Though much he recites the Sacred Texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who counts others' kine. He has no share in the fruits of the Holy life.
Though little he recites the Sacred Texts, but acts in accordance with the teaching, forsaking lust, hatred and ignorance, truly knowing, with mind well freed, clinging to naught here and hereafter, he shares the fruits of the Holy life. "
This is also found in the Bible in James where we are told that "even the demons believe and tremble". What they lack is the ACTION of compassion and love that humans are able to choose.
3. The importance of mindfulness or one pointed attention on God's Will
This Truth is practiced in eastern religions through the use of meditation and focused breathing and concentration.
Personally when I climb mountains and lift weights I go into a "trance" of this sort and focus only on the moment without distractions.
All great discoveries in science are made in this way when a person is able to be absorbed wholly into the task at hand free of distractions.
For the CHRISTIAN this is also important. How can I BE like Christ today? What can I do to train my mind on the "fruits" of the Spirit rather than the trash of the world.
Meditation and mindful prayer is the answer as taught in eastern practices.
Have you heard of the Shaolin Monks?
Or the Gurus in India that can change the pulse of the heart or heat up there hands by 10 degrees through concentration?
I have PERSONALLY trained under a Grand Master that is 70 years old and in AS GOOD OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL SHAPE AS MYSELF!!!!
This is bad fruits? This is evil????
4. Compassion and love for all mankind
The Buddha reached Nirvana and was given the option to leave the world and forsake the path of the flesh.
But the Buddha choose CRUCIFIXTION instead. He returned to the world to TEACH OTHERS instead of serving only himself and his needs. He CRUCIFIED his ego for the sake of mankind and taught COMPASSION AND LOVE above all else for fellow man.
That is only a few reasons I dont BUY your anti-everything not Jerry Falwell approved religion.
Oh and do they teach you how to do THIS in Church?
You type fast. Very fast.
Thank you for your reply and the links.
So it seems you HAVE read the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads? That is good. At least you have looked into the easterns religions before condeming them.
Here is a short list of "principles" of the eastern faith groups that I personally find to emulate a Christlike attitude and walk.
1. From what I have studied of eastern religions.... One Truth that stands out to me is the illusory nature of material reality. Nothing lasts. This is found in the NT as well when Jesus says to "store up treasures in Heaven that rust cannot destroy". Eastern religions teach the same thing. Dont hoard wealth and love. Give freely. Be compassionate.
Matt 25 (my favorite parable) also supports this view.
All that really matters in life is recognizing the illusion of material wealth and acting upon that in a Christlike "boddhisativic" Way.
2. Actions speak louder than words.
Here is a verse from the Dhammapada...
"Though much he recites the Sacred Texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who counts others' kine. He has no share in the fruits of the Holy life.
Though little he recites the Sacred Texts, but acts in accordance with the teaching, forsaking lust, hatred and ignorance, truly knowing, with mind well freed, clinging to naught here and hereafter, he shares the fruits of the Holy life. "
This is also found in the Bible in James where we are told that "even the demons believe and tremble". What they lack is the ACTION of compassion and love that humans are able to choose.
3. The importance of mindfulness or one pointed attention on God's Will
This Truth is practiced in eastern religions through the use of meditation and focused breathing and concentration.
Personally when I climb mountains and lift weights I go into a "trance" of this sort and focus only on the moment without distractions.
All great discoveries in science are made in this way when a person is able to be absorbed wholly into the task at hand free of distractions.
For the CHRISTIAN this is also important. How can I BE like Christ today? What can I do to train my mind on the "fruits" of the Spirit rather than the trash of the world.
Meditation and mindful prayer is the answer as taught in eastern practices.
Have you heard of the Shaolin Monks?
Or the Gurus in India that can change the pulse of the heart or heat up there hands by 10 degrees through concentration?
I have PERSONALLY trained under a Grand Master that is 70 years old and in AS GOOD OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL SHAPE AS MYSELF!!!!
This is bad fruits? This is evil????
4. Compassion and love for all mankind
The Buddha reached Nirvana and was given the option to leave the world and forsake the path of the flesh.
But the Buddha choose CRUCIFIXTION instead. He returned to the world to TEACH OTHERS instead of serving only himself and his needs. He CRUCIFIED his ego for the sake of mankind and taught COMPASSION AND LOVE above all else for fellow man.
That is only a few reasons I dont BUY your anti-everything not Jerry Falwell approved religion.
Oh and do they teach you how to do THIS in Church?
I am sure you could find plenty of examples, but I am also sure that I could find far more examples in Christian theology where it is stated that salvation is through Christ alone. As far as I know, it is one of the very foundational truths of all Christian denominations. Some may (or may not) add works, but they still believe that apart from belief in Christ there is no salvation.DivineNames said:
Of course I have an open mind, but that doesn't mean that I automatically believe everything to be true; that would be utterly foolish and irrational. To say that "pluralism is a far more sensible approach to the notion of salvation," whether it's Hick's or anyone elses, presupposes that Christ didn't really say that he was the only way to the Father or that Paul and John were wrong in stating that it is belief in Christ and his death and resurrection which saves.DivineNames said:
I would fully expect John Hick's statement to appeal to the carnal mind since the essence of it is that one can believe whatever they want and still be saved. Not only is it rebellion against God and his revelation in Christ. it is highly irrational to believe that to be true. John Hick ignores the glaringly obvious in that the message of salvation as it is found in Holy Scripture completely contradicts the messages of salvation found in Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
John Hick's beliefs are far more Eastern than Christian.
Do not confuse the decay of material things with it being illusory; that is taught nowhere in Scripture but is gnostic.Soma-Sight said:
And overall, bits of truth in a religion do not mean that that religion as a whole is true or that it teaches the true path to salvation. That is the deception.
It is not necessarily the practices that are evil, but the end focus and intent of those practices. Eastern meditation essentially teaches clearing one's mind of everything, including oneself, for the purpose of becoming one with the universe, or whatever. Christian meditation is quite the opposite; it is focusing on God, as a wholly other being, or Christ or something else Christian, with the goal of growing closer to Christ. Eastern meditation is an emptying; Christian meditation is a filling; they are very different.Soma said:
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DivineNames
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Free said:
I am sure you could find many examples, but what would it prove exactly?
(By the way, in case you misunderstood me, I wasn't quoting William Law because he believed that non-Christians could be saved.)
I mentioned William Law as evidence that Christianity (at least sometimes) uses a notion of salvation that seems easy to harmonize with the idea that various religions can provide a way of salvation.
Now of course Christians are (also) going to believe in the atonement, and that salvation is through Jesus. But when it comes down to it, could Christianity actually (at least sometimes) be using a theory of salvation that can easily be disconnected with Jesus? And is the theory, as Hick says, "concrete and empirically observable" in a way that the Jesus sacrifice simply isn't?
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DivineNames
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Free said:
First you make some childish statement about it, "appealing to the carnal mind", then another childish statement about, "rebellion against God", and then you put forward very superficial argument. This is the kind of thing that I have come to expect from many Christians.
Hick's view of salvation is not especially concerned with having to believe the "right" doctrines, that appears correct. (Although there may be practical limits to what you could believe and still be on a path changing towards, "God-centredness".)
Christian scripture may well contradict the message found in Islamic and Hindu scripture, but how on earth would that affect Hick's own theory of salvation?
In case you have misunderstood, Hick isn't saying that the Christian idea of salvation is true, (Atonement), and a different theory of salvation which contradicts it also happens to be true. Hick is suggesting that his own theory is true.