Jesus is all you need

[MISFIT]

Do we really need to fight and argue about the little things? Is all this really necessary? All we need is Jesus am I right? After all whats more important that we all love and follow Jesus or that we are,African Methodist Episcopal
African Methodist Episcopal Zion
African Orthodox Church
American Baptist Churches USA
Amish
Anabaptist
Anglican Catholic Church
Anglican Church
Antiochian Orthodox
Armenian Evangelical Church
Armenian Orthodox
Assemblies of God
Associated Gospel Churches of Canada
Association of Vineyard Churches
Baptist
Baptist Bible Fellowship
Brethren in Christ
Bruderhof Communities
Byzantine Catholic Church
Calvary Chapel
Calvinist
Catholic
Cell Church
Celtic Orthodox
Charismatic Episcopal Church
Christadelphian
Christian and Missionary Alliance
Christian Churches of God
Christian Identity
Church of God (Anderson)
Church of God (Cleveland)
Church of God (Seventh Day)
Church of God in Christ
Church of God of Prophecy
Church of Scotland
Church of South India
Church of the Brethren
Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
Church of the Nazarene
Church of the New Jerusalem
Church of the United Brethren in Christ
Church Universal and Triumphant
Churches of Christ
Churches of God General Conference
Congregational Christian Churches
Coptic Orthodox
Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Disciples of Christ
Episcopal Church
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Evangelical Congregational Church
Evangelical Covenant Church
Evangelical Formosan Church
Evangelical Free Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church
Evangelical Methodist Church
Evangelical Presbyterian
Fellowship of Christian Assemblies
Fellowship of Grace Brethren
Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches
Free Church of Scotland
Free Methodist
Free Presbyterian
Free Will Baptist
Great Commission Association of Churches
Greek Orthodox
Hutterian Brethren
Independent Fundamental Churches of America
Indian Orthodox
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
International Churches of Christ
Living Church of God
Local Church
Lutheran
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
Mar Thoma Syrian Church
Mennonite
Messianic Judaism
Methodist
Moravian Church
Nation of Yahweh
New Frontiers International
Old Catholic Church
Orthodox
Orthodox Church in America
Orthodox Presbyterian
Pentecostal
Plymouth Brethren
Presbyterian
Presbyterian Church
Presbyterian Church in America
Primitive Baptist
Protestant Reformed Church
Reformed
Reformed Baptist
Reformed Church in America
Reformed Church in the United States
Reformed Churches of Australia
Reformed Episcopal Church
Reformed Presbyterian Church
Revival Centres International
Romanian Orthodox
Rosicrucian
Russian Orthodox
Serbian Orthodox
Seventh Day Baptist
Seventh-Day Adventist
Southern Baptist Convention
Spiritist
Syrian Orthodox
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
Two-by-Twos
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
United Church of God
United Free Church of Scotland
United Methodist Church
United Reformed Church
Uniting Church in Australia
Unity Church
Unity Fellowship Church
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
Virtual Churches
Waldensian Church
Way International
Web Directories
Wesleyan
Wesleyan Methodist

Woo, Man that's a long list!! Do you see what all our petty bickering has given us? We have so many denominations, and I bet most of us have never even hear of most of them!! Jesus is the way the truth and the life, not any of these churches. I know a lot of you will not agree with me you're too happy going on and on and on about whose church is right, but please for GOD's sake just take a minute and pray about whether you follow Jesus or a church if you worship the living GOD or your denominational dogma and tradition.

PEACE~MISFIT

 

[cyberjosh]

Amen! Good topic. You know, George Whitefield the great preacher of the Great Awakening, once said:

"I bless God, the partition wall of bigotry and sect-religion was soon broken down in my heart; for as soon as the love of God was shed abroad in my soul, I loved all of whatsoever denomination, who loved the Lord Jesus in sincereity of heart".

You know.... I think he was on to something.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

P.S. You can read that quote from Whitefield here, although my source was a JSTOR article, foot note 8 (but not all people can access that database). If anyone really wants the article I can send it to them. I love George Whitefield, I wrote a 10 page report on him for my lit class and he has become one of my favorite preachers in history. Charles Spurgeon admired him alot and quoted him often, also saying that he wished he had half the oratory power of George Whitefield. He was a very Godly man and had a tremendous impact on the Great Awakening. If you want to read a brief account of his life look here, which I noticed is an excerpt from a book I own.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Pogo]

You make a valid point, MISFIT!

But, in my view it is just a tad over simplified.

If we look at only one passage of scripture, it will shine a light on why denominations exist.

John 14:15 KJV
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I haven't examined every sect mentioned in your list, which I'm thinking must be an abridged list, surely there are more factions claiming to be Christ's followers than that, but of those I have, not one is "keeping/teaching" ALL of Christ's commands!

So...what choice is one left with, worship in error, or separate from them and worship in one's own view of what is the "correct" TRUTH!

Which, of course, others will see as flawed, and seek their distance as well!

And...so...on, and on, and on...it goes!

Jesus is, indeed, all that we need!

But, in my view, if we are not keeping ALL of His commandments, then we do not have Him!

And, if one does not have Jesus, who do you possibly think that it could be that one DOES have?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Veritas]

It's not simple, but it should be. I agree with C.S. Lewis on the idea of a "mere" Christianity that is universal among those in Christ and the general idea of unity in essentials, diversity in non-essentials.

I accept the fact that I might be wrong on certain points and I always want to grow in Christ.

 

[Free]

Do we really need to fight and argue about the little things? Is all this really necessary? All we need is Jesus am I right? After all whats more important that we all love and follow Jesus or that we are....

First, I want to say that I understand what you are saying. Second, I want to say that you have refuted yourself. Third, I disagree, precisely because of the reason you refuted yourself with.

Christadelphians do not believe in the Trinity--Jesus is a "sinless individual", a mere man.

Christian Churches of God--regarding the nature of Jesus: "His name is Pele or Wonderful and he was an elohim as spokesman for Yahovah of Hosts. He became Jesus Christ. He was the Angel of Yahovah, who was himself called Yahovah, which is a third person form and means "he causes to be" (cf. Annotated Oxford RSV fn. to Ex. 3:14). He is often also identified as Michael who means "who is like God"; "Christ was Yahovah as a subordinate being to the one true God Yahovah of Hosts, or Yahovih, the Elyon and Eloah".

Christian Identity is linked to KKK and extreme right-wing groups.

Rosicrucian--just your typical "New Age"/New Spirituality belief system.

Spiritist--another "New Age" type belief system which includes reincarnation and contacting spirits through mediums.

The Way International--denies the deity of Christ.

Unity Church--"We believe that Jesus expressed his divine potential and sought to show humankind how to express ours as well. We see Jesus as a master teacher of universal truths and as our Way-Shower. In Unity, we use the term "Christ" to mean the divinity in humankind. Jesus is the great example of the Christ in expression".
--"We are each individual, eternal expressions of God. Our essential nature is divine and therefore inherently good. Our purose is to express our divine potential as realized and demonstrated by Jesus and other master teachers. The more we awaken to our divind nature, the more fully God expresses in and through our lives."http://www.unity.org/clientuploads/Resources/SpiritualLivingBrochureFlyer.pdf


So, as you can see, even a somewhat cursory look at those you've listed show irreconcilable differences. So on the one hand, yes, Jesus is really all we need. But on the other, as soon as you utter those words you must then answer the question Who is Jesus? And as I have shown, there are massive differences in who he is. This is not a little thing; this makes all the difference.

 

[MISFIT]

Josh- Thanks I liked the quote and will read the whole thing after I get done here.

Pogo- I agree that there is a little more to it, but the main point is Jesus he has changed me since I came to him and over time can change anyone to fit what he wants.

Free- You should have seen the list before I trimmed it. All I did was google christian denominations, and got more than I had ever heard of. I took out many obvious non-christian ones like the LDS church, the Jehovah's witnesses, and the Unitarians so forgive me if I over looked some. I am very familiar with the ones you mentioned, I just over looked them while editing the list it is after all a HUGE list. :crazyeyes:

 

[MISFIT]

Free- One more thing I would add, the sects you mentioned as well as the ones I took off the list have one thing in common, they all stem from Christianity yes their doctrine is wrong, but they are the ultimate examples of what pointless petty infighting has gotten us as christians. We are the reason they exist, if we christians could get along rather than fight over dumb little thing all the time sects like these would be less, and might not even be. Also I bet there would be a lot less atheists in the world.

 

[cyberjosh]

Josh- Thanks I liked the quote and will read the whole thing after I get done here.

No problem. And if you become interested in George Whitefield I can send you the paper I wrote for my lit class last year that I mentioned. I enjoyed writing that paper.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[MISFIT]

Amazing! No one wants to reply to this, tell me are you all really that happy arguing over the little things?

 

[Pogo]

Hi, MISFIT -

It sounds like you MIGHT be saying that unless you are the originator of a thread, it is trivia.

If I'm wrong, then go over to one of the threads on PREDESTINATION, and straighten everyone out, since it is such a little thing!

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Gabe]

I believe the truth can be found somewhere in the middle. Of course Christ (of the Gospels) is all we need but the little things cannot go ignored. We must discuss and help each other understand what it is that He truly requires of us but we must do so in a manner that is fitting. I see some on this forum ridicule and insult Catholics for their beliefs (some even going as far as calling them non-Christian) and it upsets me because this sort of behaviour should be below us. If you see an error in a Christian, you should voice your concerns and that is where you should leave it.
Obviously we all think our own interpretation of Scripture is the right interpretation of Scripture but we must not forget that every other Christian on this forum will also think this, so it is highly unlikely that your interpretation will be correct all of the time but this does not make you any less Christian than the next. I agree that there would be less Atheists and a lot less Muslims if it were not for all the in-fighting. These people look at us and all they see is the body of Christ beating it self up.Christ beating it self up.

 

[Timf]

Here is a letter I just wrote to a friend touching on this very subject. In essence my position is that doctrinal or denominational distinctives can be an interesting pursuit after one has a solid core of faith and growth in Jesus. The object of the church should be that each Christian grow into the image of Christ.

It is my contention that when people come to church instead of Christ, they often are given "doctrine" instead of Christ. This serves a poor substitute and often leads to contention and rancor in the "flesh". Here is what I wrote;

Thank you for your response and the time you put into it. I think I understand where I did not make myself clear, As I understand it, you see three states for the Christian;

1. Ignorant
2. Having been taught wrong things
3. Having been taught right things

I see a different arrangement

1. Ignorant
2. Having been taught wrong things
3. Having been taught right things in the wrong way
4. Having been taught right things the right way.

I think some of the problem is illuminated by Paul when he says;

1Co 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

There exists a method of teaching that relies on human effort (flesh). This quenches the work of the Holy Spirit and what is built looks right, but it is missing the essential connection to and power of God. This is what had happened to the Pharisees.

A new Christian will start at level 1 (ignorance). If he receives teaching about wrong things, he may not be willing to hear or even consider things that are right. This is similar to the new Christian that receives teaching of right things but in the wrong way. In this case he is not interested in hearing what he already "knows".

In a way, receiving right instruction the wrong way is like getting a load of bricks delivered and never having them built into a house. The person will be cold and wet his whole life and get angry when you try to point out how he could improve things. He might get defensive and think that you are saying there is something wrong with his bricks.

If a student takes a class on theology, he will learn about the attributes of God, references to these attributes, and how these attributes may be manifest. The student may, upon completion of his class, take a little pride in his accomplishment of mastering the subject of God. This would be an example of learning about the right things in the wrong way.

If a pastor was training a young man to learn the work of an overseer, he might take the young man aside in prayer to thank God for His work in the life of a person to whom they were ministering. The pastor might describe to the young man how God's actions show His omnipotence, love, or grace. This would "teach" the attributes of God in a context of reverence, awe, humility, and gratitude. This would be an example of learning the right things the right way.

Classroom instruction cannot help but be abstract and disconnected from context. This lends itself very easily to the mechanical approach (flesh) that makes the cross of Christ of none effect. This disconnection of data from heart can also be seen in the Old Testament;

Isa 29:13
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

I would suggest that there is a difference between how Jesus and the disciples "taught" and what passes for teaching today. In the Bible I see an individually involved "teaching" that engaged the heart, saturated in prayer, "guiding" a person to build the "house" of his new life in Christ with the "bricks" of Bible doctrine. Today I see someone dump a load of "bricks" in a persons yard, yell, "Good luck" and drive away.

Most of this is because the world we live in is so much different that the world of the Bible. The world today has been globalized and collectivized to such an extent, that the family life and village life described in the Bible and common throughout the world until the 1800s, sounds like an alien culture.

No one has the time to become involved in the life of another and most people would not welcome such involvement. Our churches reflect the pace of modern life and the disinterest in spending unnecessary time with others. We process a young man through four years of seminary assembly line classes and then pronounce him capable of teaching others about Jesus. He often doesn't "know" the first thing about Jesus or how to be like Him, yet he is an "ordained" shepherd.

We do not "teach" like Jesus and the disciples, because we do not even know how to relate to others like they did back then. We have lost the ability to build with bricks and so we can only see that ministry involves moving bricks around.

Consider a type of teaching described in the Bible;

Deu 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

The teaching that a parent gives a child throughout the day and every day is a form of relational teaching. It is integrated in the fabric of daily life. Our collectivized society and fragmented families give us little understanding the true nature of such teaching so that it can seem rather abstract and even impractical to us today. Children do not spend their time with their parents any more. The entity making an "investment" in their children is the state and it prohibits the name of Jesus from even being mentioned.

We are greatly handicapped in our ability to "teach" others in the context of brothers and sisters in Christ, when we do not even maintain a depth of familial relations in our own biological families. We end up just dropping off a load of disassociated data and facts that constitute a package of doctrinal "bricks".

A man may have been taught he should love his wife. He may even make a declaration that he loves his wife. He may even think he understands how to love his wife. The man did not receive wrong teaching. The facts he learned were not wrong. His declaration is not wrong. It is just that he may not actually love his wife because he does not understand that love is really selflessness or that the integration of love into daily life includes the constant demonstration of affection and care. Without a heart connection to He who is love, the man may not be able to give this love to his wife. He may not understand even what love is. His understanding may be limited to a fact he was "taught" but unable to do.

What is missing today are teachers that can show a person how to build a house of true doctrinal bricks using the "mortar" of wisdom and understanding, according to the plan of the Holy Spirit. These are the teachers and "doctrine" that are missing and without whom the perfection of the bricks is secondary.

Your books may contain more correct information in them than many others. My concern is more for the absence of relational teaching. Without this personal involved instruction, "correct doctrine" may just sit in a person's life like a load of unused bricks.

I am less concerned with the quality of the brick than I am with the absence of masons. Too many Christians live their entire lives in frustration, depression, and defeat because they do not know that their pile of bricks can be built into a warm, dry home where the Lord can enter and dwell.

 

[Pogo]

Timf -

Excellent post!

MISFIT -

I'm thinking that what most think of as "little," is really not so little.

After all, my Bible tells me that a lie is just as bad as a murder, since neither liars or murderers will be found in heaven.

Maybe it would help me to understand your position better if you could offer a few examples of the things that you are seeing as "little."

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[MISFIT]

Times -

Excellent post!

MISFIT -

I'm thinking that what most think of as "little," is really not so little.

After all, my Bible tells me that a lie is just as bad as a murder, since neither liars or murderers will be found in heaven.

Maybe it would help me to understand your position better if you could offer a few examples of the things that you are seeing as "little."

In Christ,

Pogo

Pogo~ If it's in the Bible I wouldn't call it little. The "Little" things I'm talking about are things like, when to meet for worship, how to worship, whether or not speaking in tongues is necessary, if it's just scripture or also tradition, either or not to use modern music, either or not women can be clergy. You see what I mean?

 

[Pogo]

MISFIT -

Yes, I see what you mean.

I know that you are not alone in your view that...

If it's in the Bible I would call it little.

However, I don't agree with you/them.

Rather than stirring up a cloud of...IS,TOO's!/IS NOT's!, I'll just follow this thread from a distance.

Maybe I'll learn something!

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[MISFIT]

MISFIT -

Yes, I see what you mean.

I know that you are not alone in your view that...

If it's in the Bible I would call it little.

However, I don't agree with you/them.

Rather than stirring up a cloud of...IS,TOO's!/IS NOT's!, I'll just follow this thread from a distance.

Maybe I'll learn something!

In Christ,

Pogo

Woops! I meant " I wouldn't call it little". typo

 

[Ret]

Amazing! No one wants to reply to this, tell me are you all really that happy arguing over the little things?

Jesus speaks much about little things. The little child, the little sparrow, the lost coin, the lost sheep. Luke 17:6 If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed...KJV

We cannot ignore the value of little things, this is where we start our christian journey. Before calvary the disciples argued over little things. After calvary they put away the arguing, yet, maintained the value of little things. This leads me to think - the difference before and after calvary was a process of maturing.

In Christian Fellowship,
Ret

 

[MISFIT]

Amazing! No one wants to reply to this, tell me are you all really that happy arguing over the little things?

Jesus speaks much about little things. The little child, the little sparrow, the lost coin, the lost sheep. Luke 17:6 If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed...KJV

We cannot ignore the value of little things, this is where we start our christian journey. Before calvary the disciples argued over little things. After calvary they put away the arguing, yet, maintained the value of little things. This leads me to think - the difference between before and after calvary was a process of maturing.

In Christian Fellowship,
Ret

one more time, I'm not saying anything about the Bible! I love the Bible, my problem is with in fighting between Christian denominations, and the Little differences that tear us apart.

 

[Ret]

one more time, I'm not saying anything about the Bible! I love the Bible, my problem is with in fighting between Christian denominations, and the Little differences that tear us apart.

As our physical bodies are made of many parts, so the body of Christ is made up of many parts, and each denomination has a part, not the whole truth - but a part, though some argue the point.

I do feal spiritual children will argue, and this develops spiritual maturity. So, I don't think we can stop this part of the experience. Only keep it under control, like Jesus did with the disciples.

It is my believ that - with christian experience and with a deeper conversion as the disciples had at calvary, the arguing between denominational differences will cease between true christians. In this I do not believe all will accept positions of another church, just I/we will stop judging and dispising others of a different faith or belief.

Ret