Jesus learned? Jesus was made perfect?

[journeyman]

That's what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would He have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when He was perfect already?

 

[Randy]

That's what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would He have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when He was perfect already?

He is referenced as a Son in that passage. He was made a little lower than the angels for a little while. As the Son of Man he had to learn to rely/depend on the Father which He petitioned with prayers and tears. Of course I believe He has always been the Begotten Son but that is as close as I can come to an answer for one who believes He is a unbegotten God. Otherwise there is no reasonable answer for why Yahweh would need to be made perfect. He is perfect. In fact Jesus taught be perfect as your Father is perfect. Did Jesus empty Himself of perfection?

 

[LeviR]

That's what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would He have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when He was perfect already?

Jesus has a God.
God doesn’t need to learn anything, nor does he need to be made perfect.
Beats me why they hold to untruth and can’t be corrected

 

[LeviR]

He is referenced as a Son in that passage. He was made a little lower than the angels for a little while. As the Son of Man he had to learn to rely/depend on the Father which He petitioned with prayers and tears. Of course I believe He has always been the Begotten Son but that is as close as I can come to an answer for one who believes He is a unbegotten God. Otherwise there is no reasonable answer for why Yahweh would need to be made perfect. He is perfect. In fact Jesus taught be perfect as your Father is perfect. Did Jesus empty Himself of perfection?

Empty himself of perfection?
How does that happen?

 

[LeviR]

Jesus has a God.
God doesn’t need to learn anything, nor does he need to be made perfect.
Beats me why they hold to untruth and can’t be corrected

My guess as to why Trinitarians hold to untruth and can’t be corrected is that they prefer religious feeling over intellectual honesty.

 

[LeviR]

That's what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would He have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when He was perfect already?

Imperfection causes death. Perfection causes life eternal.

Jesus was perfect, except for the flesh he partook of. It was like ours.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Empty himself of perfection?
How does that happen?

Leaving His kingdom and being made flesh in the presence of a sinful world that many may be saved .
The Heaven He left to do this has no sin or no darkness in it at all, because it is perfect.
You don't believe that when you die you are going to a place where the presence of sin still exists do you ?

 

[journeyman]

He is referenced as a Son in that passage. He was made a little lower than the angels for a little while. As the Son of Man he had to learn to rely/depend on the Father which He petitioned with prayers and tears. Of course I believe He has always been the Begotten Son but that is as close as I can come to an answer for one who believes He is a unbegotten God. Otherwise there is no reasonable answer for why Yahweh would need to be made perfect. He is perfect. In fact Jesus taught be perfect as your Father is perfect. Did Jesus empty Himself of perfection?

Jesus was always perfect, so He didn't empty Himself of perfection.
The text says, "emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant," Phil.2:7 KJ

He took the position of a slave but taught,

"a greater than Solomon here!" Mt.12:42 YLT

So He humbled Himself instead of taking His righful place and did so only as an example of how we need humility,

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. Jn.13:14 KJV

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phil.2:5 KJV

I see the teaching here as, "If our King presented Himself this way, who are we not to?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Spiritual Perfection in terms of a sin nature is something that Jesus always was and always will be perfect in.
The title of this thread is a misnomer .
Spiritual Perfection & Learning in the way you mean it are two different things .
Satan "LEARNED" that Jesus was spiritually PERFECT.

Jhn 14:30
...... the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

That is why Satan never attempted to tempt Jesus again after he failed to do so in the 40 days 40 nights Jesus spent in the wilderness.
He had to "LEARN" that Jesus was PERFECT, in the Spiritual sense.

Jesus on the other hand, even in His flesh, did not need to LEARN a thing about Satan's spiritual nature .
Jesus already knew before being born a baby in a manger exactly what Satan was , because He was there at the moment of Satan's creation.
The only way He could have known of Satan's "beginning" is because Jesus had no "beginning"

Jhn 8:44
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[journeyman]

Jesus has a God.

How do you know? Because He said He did? So what? Why do you believe what Jesus said more than anyone else?

God doesn’t need to learn anything, nor does he need to be made perfect.

I agree completely.

Beats me why they hold to untruth and can’t be corrected

Actually it's false teaching which entered congregations and later cults such as JWs' that needs correction. Pilate said,

Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above Jn.19:10-11 NKJV

Pilate didn't understand what the Messiah was saying to him, because he didn't know

"I am from above "Jn.8:23 NKJV

Like all false teachers alienate, isolate and piecemeal the scriptures into confusion.

LeviR , was Jesus above, below, or level with Pilate?

 

[Randy]

Empty himself of perfection?
How does that happen?

Didn't say that He did. You did notice the question mark didn't you?
The Text states
though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

My God doesn't need to learn anything nor need to be perfected. He never ends nor changes. He is.

 

[LeviR]

Didn't say that He did. You did notice the question mark didn't you?
The Text states
though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

My God doesn't need to learn anything nor need to be perfected. He never ends no changes. He is.

My God didn’t need to learn or be made perfect either. Sounds like we might know the same God.

 

[journeyman]

Imperfection causes death. Perfection causes life eternal.

That's why I said Jesus really didn't need to be made anything,

this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent Jn.17:3

We can know God without each other, but not without Him.

Jesus was perfect, except for the flesh he partook of. It was like ours.

His flesh was the curtin torn which hid God from view,

He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, Heb.10:20 NKJV

Only One was behind the curtin. The Lamb that was slain. The High Priest sprinkling His blood on it.

 

[Randy]

Jesus was always perfect, so He didn't empty Himself of perfection.
The text says, "emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant," Phil.2:7 KJ

He took the position of a slave but taught,

"a greater than Solomon here!" Mt.12:42 YLT

So He humbled Himself instead of taking His righful place and did so only as an example of how we need humility,

If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. Jn.13:14 KJV

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Phil.2:5 KJV

I see the teaching here as, "If our King presented Himself this way, who are we not to?

God is perfect and doesn't need to learn anything. I agree but you asked about this scripture. Was it a bait question? Apparently from what I read, Jesus needed to learn obedience from suffering and in that regard was perfected. I know Jesus overcame the world as a servant though the world was made through Him. Yet He taught us to be perfect like our heavenly Father is perfect though He was in heaven. The Father was reconciling us to Himself through His Son. Col 1:20

though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

 

[journeyman]

Didn't say that He did. You did notice the question mark didn't you?
The Text states
though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

My God doesn't need to learn anything nor need to be perfected. He never ends no changes. He is.

When I see Jesus this way it truly shows how merciful He was (and still is) to ungoly sinners such as me

 

[journeyman]

God is perfect and doesn't need to learn anything. I agree but you asked about this scripture. Was it a bait question?

Not at all. I want people to look at why Jesus did and said what He did.

Apparently from what I read, Jesus needed to learn obedience from suffering and in that regard was perfected.

If you think Jesus didn't know human suffering before He suffered you're wrong. God has suffered sinners long before He was born on earth and has seen the suffering we have caused.

I know Jesus overcame the world as a servant though the world was made through Him.

God has always provided abundantly for mankind so no change there.

Yet He taught us to be perfect like our heavenly Father is perfect though He was in heaven. The Father was reconciling us to Himself through His Son. Col 1:20

though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

Yes, reconciling us to God by giving all of Himself (My highlighting doesn't change what the text says.)

Randy
I'm curious how you read,

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev.11:15 KJV

Does it mean, At one time kingdoms on earth didn't belong to God, but later on they did... or does it mean, "At one time, we weren't aware that everything on earth belongs to God, but now we do." ???

I belueve they had a "revelation" that all scripture agrees with.

 

[journeyman]

And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.....and it grieved him at his heart. Gen.6:5-6 KJV

But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Cor.2:10 KJV

Does God reveal His grief to us by His Spirit? He does if we look at how sinners attacked His Son. And here's a thought...What is more wicked than wanting Jesus dead?

 

[journeyman]

We have grief when others sin against us, but we have infirmities, The Holy Spirit helps our infirmities. He leads us to love even our enemies as our Lord did. As He always has because He counts both OT and NT believers as His body.

God help us to grow in your grace.

 

[follower]

That's what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would He have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when He was perfect already?

He Created all the univeers and everything in it and all things are through Him ...... yet He Emptied Himself to be born in this wretched sinful wicked world !

 

[follower]

..What is more wicked than wanting Jesus dead?

Killing billions of souls destitute of life or hope in sheer hatred of YHVH and hating all who abide in Him or seek Him.