Jesus learned? Jesus was made perfect?

[follower]

He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

And so He Is Eternally Now and Forever to those who obey Him.

 

[follower]

Imperfection causes death. Perfection causes life eternal.

Jesus was perfect, except for the flesh he partook of. It was like ours.

No, His flesh never saw corruption, even in the grave. That is VERY different from ours.

 

[follower]

At one time kingdoms on earth didn't belong to God, but later on they did... or does it mean, "At one time, we weren't aware that everything on earth belongs to God, but now we do." ???

At the time and today the kingdoms on earth are subject to the prince of the power of the air , and few peopole on earth ever are aware at all that everything belongs to God - not even "now we do"..... wickedness is so widespread and thoroughly in and through everything of the flesh (including entertainment, banking, medicine, religion, and so on).

 

[journeyman]

He Created all the univeers and everything in it and all things are through Him ...... yet He Emptied Himself to be born in this wretched sinful wicked world !

It says He made Himself of no reputation. He appeared as a servant, but still should have been honored by all.

 

[journeyman]

At the time and today the kingdoms on earth are subject to the prince of the power of the air , and few peopole on earth ever are aware at all that everything belongs to God - not even "now we do"..... wickedness is so widespread and thoroughly in and through everything of the flesh (including entertainment, banking, medicine, religion, and so on).

The kingdoms have heard, but few believe. The few subject themselves to Jesus and go to war against the prince of this world.
The devil isn't our king.

 

[journeyman]

Killing billions of souls destitute of life or hope in sheer hatred of YHVH and hating all who abide in Him or seek Him.

I said wanting our Lord dead includes persecution against believers, as we are members of His body.

my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. Lk.12:4 KJV

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Lk.10:19 KJV

So the Messiah came as prophesied along with thousands of faithful,

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them...Jde.1:14-15 KJV

When Jesus visibly appears the 2nd time, the war is over. The universe as we know it will be consumed in fire.

And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; Lk.1:22-23 KJV

There is no pulling anyone out of fire that is everywhere.

 

[LeviR]

No, His flesh never saw corruption, even in the grave. That is VERY different from ours.

The flesh Jesus was raised with is called a spiritual body. The spiritual body of risen saints is incorruptible. It never dies.
To say that Jesus’ flesh, before he died, was not like ours, is contradicting the scripture.

 

[Vinny37]

[Jesus learned? Jesus was made perfect? That’s what Heb.5:8-9 says but if Jesus is God, why would he have to learn by suffering, or be made perfect when he was perfect already?]

The basic mistake is calling Jesus God: the raw data is better synthesised, fine-tuned. God does not sleep or slumber; Jesus slept and slumbered. Heiser noted the various uses of the elohim/theos word. The NT emphasis on God/Theos is the father (the Logos was with God the father: Jhn.1:1). But with Athanasius we can see that the logos was theos in substance/ousia (Jhn.1:1). The logos is noncarnate, but the logos (a.k.a. God the son) began an incarnate mode, viz Jesus (Jhn.1:14). Jesus began about 6 BC, a human man and mission which was not complete in suffering (τελειω/τελειō: Heb.5:9) until his obedience even to death on the cross (Heb.12:2). Always sinless, he matured as a human being (Lk.2:52; Heb.5:8), operating not by his own deificity (NIV: Php.2:6) but by the deity of the spirit (Mt.12:28).

 

[journeyman]

The basic mistake is calling Jesus God:

No Vinny37.
The basic mistake interpreting scripture is when sinners don't understand who they're dealing with.
I mentioned this to someone earlier but haven't had a response yet, so I'll ask you.
When our King stood before Pilate, the Governor said,

"You will not speak to me? Do you not know that I have authority to release you and authority to crucify you?” Jn.19:10 ESV

What do you think would have happened if Jesus defended Himself by law. By Mosaic law or any common decent law by which mankind is governed on earth (take your pick.)

My opinion is if the Messiah called sinners to justice instead of giving us a ton of space for repentance we wouldn't be here.

I don't mind answering the rest of your post, but I want an answer to the above.

the raw data is better synthesised, fine-tuned. God does not sleep or slumber; Jesus slept and slumbered.
Heiser noted the various uses of the elohim/theos word. The NT emphasis on God/Theos is the father (the Logos was with God the father: Jhn.1:1). But with Athanasius we can see that the logos was theos in substance/ousia (Jhn.1:1). The logos is noncarnate, but the logos (a.k.a. God the son) began an incarnate mode, viz Jesus (Jhn.1:14). Jesus began about 6 BC, a human man and mission which was not complete in suffering (τελειω/τελειō: Heb.5:9) until his obedience even to death on the cross (Heb.12:2). Always sinless, he matured as a human being (Lk.2:52; Heb.5:8), operating not by his own deificity (NIV: Php.2:6) but by the deity of the spirit (Mt.12:28).

No. Johns' point is the Word from the beginning never stopped being the Word in a flesh body. The King of the universe only appeared weak because He showed evrryone weaker than Him mercy.

His suffering isn't complete until the last believer is martyred. In a crazy way it's comical how the devil wants us to see Christs' church as vulnerable...weak. The way the world views strength...Whoever has the biggest bomb..army..kills the most..blah blah blah.
What would happen if we were really dressed for a fight in the battle gear described in Eph.6?

Who would win and what would that fight look like to an unbeliever?

 

[Randy]

Not at all. I want people to look at why Jesus did and said what He did.

If you think Jesus didn't know human suffering before He suffered you're wrong. God has suffered sinners long before He was born on earth and has seen the suffering we have caused.

God has always provided abundantly for mankind so no change there.

Yes, reconciling us to God by giving all of Himself (My highlighting doesn't change what the text says.)

Randy
I'm curious how you read,

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev.11:15 KJV

Does it mean, At one time kingdoms on earth didn't belong to God, but later on they did... or does it mean, "At one time, we weren't aware that everything on earth belongs to God, but now we do." ???

I belueve they had a "revelation" that all scripture agrees with.

I read Jesus learned obedience from what He suffered and once "made" perfect....
I didn't write that.
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

As far as the Kingdoms becoming the Kingdom of God and His Christ it means His Will will be done on earth by His rule as opposed to now with God enemies still lose in the world.

 

[follower]

To say that Jesus’ flesh, before he died, was not like ours, is contradicting the scripture.

Do you realize that even in the grave, His flesh did not see corruption ? Jesus body never saw or went through or experienced any decay at all, ever.

 

[follower]

I read Jesus learned obedience from what He suffered and once "made" perfect....
I didn't write that.
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Yes. Good testimony, good to see "I read"..... (and believed) . We do not write Scripture. We read Scripture. And believe, for Scripture is true. (though understanding most men corrupt what they read).

 

[follower]

• Yesterday at 6:38 PM

He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

And so He Is Eternally Now and Forever to those who obey Him.

 

[LeviR]

Do you realize that even in the grave, His flesh did not see corruption ? Jesus body never saw or went through or experienced any decay at all, ever.

The flesh of man can be identified as something that differs from the flesh of other creatures.
I’m not sure what you’re implying.

 

[follower]

The flesh of man can be identified as something that differs from the flesh of other creatures.
I’m not sure what you’re implying.

I'm not implying anything at all.
Read in the Bible what happened to Jesus' body in the grave.

 

[LeviR]

I'm not implying anything at all.
Read in the Bible what happened to Jesus' body in the grave.

His body didn’t decay. What’s the implication of that?

 

[follower]

His body didn’t decay. What’s the implication of that?

Huh? What? So did Jesus' body decay or not ? Everyone else's body starts to decay as soon as they die. Some start to decay even before they die (I think).

 

[James Fifteen]

John 1:14 and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

That is the beginning of the “perfect” in Hebrews.

He learned obedience in the flesh. How to obey as a human being.

For Him, it was easy to obey as the Son of God, with the Father, full of grace and truth before He became flesh. It was His essence as part of the triune Godhead.

But he did have to learn the same obedience while in the flesh so He could be the second Adam.

Once this perfection was completed at the resurrection, He became the source of salvation to elect believers.

It’s not a difficult thing to understand.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 3:11-17, When Jesus was baptized of John it was to fulfill prophecy as the heavens opened and Jesus received power and authority as the heavens opened up and the Spirit of God lighted upon Him saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Jesus, being the very Spirit of God come in the flesh had to relate to humanity in all humbleness and readiness before His ministry began here on earth.

What Jesus was and always will be is perfect in every way being Alpha and Omega before the foundation of the world as having no beginning or end, perfect without any sin found in Him. When Jesus came to earth as a new born baby, as a child sitting in the Temple learning and questioning up to the time that John baptized Him was to fulfill Gods righteousness in Him. Jesus has always been the word of God before the foundation of the world and never went above anything God gave Him to speak and to do, John 1:1-14; John 12:49-50

 

[journeyman]

I read Jesus learned obedience from what He suffered

So the Messiah kept the law even as a man, never transgressing the law He gave Moses.

and once "made" perfect....
I didn't write that.
and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

"Was made perfect" seems to mean after His resurrection. After He rose from death, sinners repented, obeyed Him and were given eternal life.

7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered

I mentioned in a prior post (not sure if it was to you) how Hebrews intent is showing that since Jesus "learned" to obey Moses, it must mean He was teaching others of Gods' mercy.

9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

By the "order of Melchizedek" is meant Eternal,

having neither beginning of days, nor end of life Heb.7:3 KJV

Eternal doesn't need to be made perfect because It's forever that way.

As far as the Kingdoms becoming the Kingdom of God and His Christ it aqmeans His Will will be done on earth by His rule as opposed to now with God enemies still lose in the world.

It means His will be done on earth now through His people, despite His enemies (us before) running loose. Dead men in the world.