jesus of nazareth - the 'law' must be written on our hearts?

[newbie_404]

hello all

In the first minute of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmL7Mw9oOKA from the film "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus tells these words:

"The Commandments God gave to Moses so long ago must
not remain dead for the reverence of the unthinking mind,
stone is what the Law is written on, 'But the Law itself is
ALIVE and living things are constantly changing....
A man is made of flesh and blood and he changes, doesn't he
remain the same man ?
God wants to write the Law on your hearts"

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

 

[Jethro Bodine]

hello all

In the first minute of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmL7Mw9oOKA from the film "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus tells these words:

"The Commandments God gave to Moses so long ago must
not remain dead for the reverence of the unthinking mind,
stone is what the Law is written on, 'But the Law itself is
ALIVE and living things are constantly changing....
A man is made of flesh and blood and he changes, doesn't he
remain the same man ?
God wants to write the Law on your hearts"

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

The reference to having the law written on the heart comes from the old testament, and Paul refers to it, but off the top of my head I can't think of Jesus ever talking about the law being written on the heart (and certainly not in this kind of detail). But I could be mistaken.

Having the law written on your heart means it's of your very nature. It's the difference between not coveting your neighbor's wife because the law says not to, and not doing that because you truly care about your neighbor from your heart, and the fact that it's an actual written law is irrelevant.

 

[Drew]

Having the law written on your heart means it's of your very nature. It's the difference between not coveting your neighbor's wife because the law says not to, and not doing that because you truly care about your neighbor from your heart, and the fact that it's an actual written law is irrelevant.

I completely agree with you on this.

But - and I suspect there will be disagreement about this - many elements of the Law of Moses which really have obvious "from the heart" analogue really do not apply any more. Examples: the food laws, the stuff about sacrificing in the temple, stuff about weaving different types of fabric together, etc.

In other words, people forget that the Law of Moses contains a whole whack of stuff besides the 10 commandments. Although this a complex topic, I would say this: those elements of the Law of Moses that marked the Jew out as distinct from the Gentile - such as the food laws - have been essentially retired.

I know I am giving the impression that I am splitting the Law up into different "parts" - I actually entirely reject that notion. I would need to post more to explain what I am getting at.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I completely agree with you on this.

But - and I suspect there will be disagreement about this - many elements of the Law of Moses which really have obvious "from the heart" analogue really do not apply any more. Examples: the food laws, the stuff about sacrificing in the temple, stuff about weaving different types of fabric together, etc.

I am in complete agreement with this! It's a very interesting subject and one that I enjoy sharing from the scriptures.

God is not writing laws about literal animal sacrifices, literal Temples, and literal Levitical priesthoods on the hearts of his people anymore. He is writing the spiritual principles those literal things represented on our hearts.

 

[mondar]

hello all

In the first minute of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmL7Mw9oOKA from the film "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus tells these words:

"The Commandments God gave to Moses so long ago must
not remain dead for the reverence of the unthinking mind,
stone is what the Law is written on, 'But the Law itself is
ALIVE and living things are constantly changing....
A man is made of flesh and blood and he changes, doesn't he
remain the same man ?
God wants to write the Law on your hearts"

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

The issue you noticed in the flick from Youtube is a very important teaching in both OT and NT. It begins in Deuteronomy and has its most well known representation in Jeremiah 31.
Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:

This is the new covenant. It is often put in contrast with the old covenant. Notice the contrast in verse 32.
Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah.
The contrast is of course that the new covenant is an act of God whereby he does something. He changes the heart. Under the Old Covenant, there was no change of heart, but men were taught the law and called to repent. Of course they did not repent. In fact they could not repent. Their hearts were of "stone" (See Ezekiel 11:19). Until God gave them a heart of flesh, they will not repent.

On the other hand, David was a "man after God's own heart." He wrote many psalms of how he delighted in the law.

Deuteronomy 29:4 tells us the problem.
Deu 29:4 but Jehovah hath not given you a heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
No one has the law of God on their heart. No one can get it. No man can even seek it.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God;
Notice in Deuteronomy 29:4 the reason for the Jewish disobedience is because God with held a gift. Pay close attention to the words "but Jehovah has not given you a heart."

The beginning of the New Covenant, and the law written on the heart is found in Deuteronomy 30:6 and the concept of heart circumcision.
Deu 30:6 And Jehovah thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

So then, the promises of the law being written on the heart in Jeremiah are accompanied with many other statements in scripture. This law of God written on the heart is an act of God. It of course has great consequences in man. The consequences will be that man will have a knowledge of God and they will know forgiveness of sin.
Jer 31:34 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith Jehovah: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

Of course the New Covenant is spoken of in the NT in 1 Cor 11, 2 Cor 4, Hebrews 6 and 8, and the communion passages in the synoptic Gospels.

John the Baptist announced Jesus as "one is coming who is mightier then I. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

The law of God being written on the heart is not the work of man for God, it is the work of God for men. You know the work of God because it leads to repentance. The Mosaic Law never enabled repentance.

See ya later... and good luck.

 

[Fedusenko]

This may be the origin of what you are asking.

Deuteronomy 11:18

18Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

 

[Former Christian]

----

If the law is not for us today, then neither is the Old Testament. An obvious fallacy since the NT writers quoted from the OT and commended it for our benefit. The law was given by God not men. The law and the OT are integrally bound together. Those who have convinced themselves to not abide by such laws as the food laws in the OT do so to their own peril. Apart from the food laws of the OT, the practice of cannibalism is acceptable. Not many cultures in the world degrade themselves to that extent.

Mondar presents a good summary of the matter of the law written in our hearts. What's presented in the Youtube segment is a paraphrase of ideas. Rather than literally quote the bible, the writers of this script try to present biblical ideas in a paraphrased form. It is accurate by all accounts. I agree with the idea of law and the heart as it is presented. As does Mondar I think.

FC

 

[meddlehaze]

----

If the law is not for us today, then neither is the Old Testament. An obvious fallacy since the NT writers quoted from the OT and commended it for our benefit. The law was given by God not men. The law and the OT are integrally bound together. Those who have convinced themselves to not abide by such laws as the food laws in the OT do so to their own peril. Apart from the food laws of the OT, the practice of cannibalism is acceptable. Not many cultures in the world degrade themselves to that extent.

Mondar presents a good summary of the matter of the law written in our hearts. What's presented in the Youtube segment is a paraphrase of ideas. Rather than literally quote the bible, the writers of this script try to present biblical ideas in a paraphrased form. It is accurate by all accounts. I agree with the idea of law and the heart as it is presented. As does Mondar I think.

FC

The Law is not for us in regards to salvation. The Christ follower is under Grace and not Law. God made a new covenant and put His Spirit in us, fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Hitch]

hello all

In the first minute of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmL7Mw9oOKA from the film "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus tells these words:

"The Commandments God gave to Moses so long ago must
not remain dead for the reverence of the unthinking mind,
stone is what the Law is written on, 'But the Law itself is
ALIVE and living things are constantly changing....
A man is made of flesh and blood and he changes, doesn't he
remain the same man ?
God wants to write the Law on your hearts"

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

Paul will have to do;
2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Apart from the food laws of the OT, the practice of cannibalism is acceptable.

Is there a specific Mosaic law that says we are not to eat human flesh such that if it was not in there we'd eat human flesh, or is the prohibition against it just implied in some way?

Not many cultures in the world degrade themselves to that extent.

I think this is an example of natural law, or the law of conscience, not actual Mosaic law (that I'm aware of). There are just some things that people, even people without the Mosaic law, understand by nature and conscience and generally abide by. Theft and murder are examples. So is not having unnatural sexual relations.

As you seem to agree, few people groups in human history, who didn't have the law, had to suddenly change the accepted opinion about things like cannibalism, and theft, and murder, and unnatural sex when they received the knowledge of the law of Moses. But at the same time you are suggesting cannibalism would be okay if it weren't for the law.

 

[Former Christian]

Meddlehaze

“The Law is not for us in regards to salvation. The Christ follower is under Grace and not Law. God made a new covenant and put His Spirit in us, fulfilling prophecy.â€


If the Law is not for us today, then neither is the Old Testament. The Law was given in Exodus and the rest of the OT was written centered in that Law. Yet Paul said,

Romans 15:
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(KJV)

2 Timothy 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

Both portions refer to the OT. Paul quoted the OT constantly. Either Paul was a very mislead Pharisee or the OT, which includes the Law, is truly for the believer today.

That the Tabernacle ritual was fulfilled by Christ does not, indeed can not, change that fact. The Tabernacle ritual is the only part of the Law that could be considered as regarding salvation. The rest of the Law stands as is and is as much for us today as it was for the era in which it was written.

When Jesus uses the Bible to teach us today, he uses both the OT and the NT in his teaching. The bible is not a book of limitation. It is not a book that is only written to and for its own era, to be interpreted by men to make it applicable to twenty first century believers. The bible is a timeless book created in eternity. Either it all pertains to us today or none of it does. The bible interpreters have no legitimate right, except in their own minds, to pick and choose.

Christians create a false dichotomy when they try to make it grace vs. the Law. That is NOT the intention of any NT writer. The Law was given through Moses while grace and truth became through Jesus Christ (John 1:17). Yet the ultimate source of all was God. The Law is compatible with grace and truth. It’s not a matter of one or the other.

As the New Covenant began to take effect, the Old Covenant began to fade away. The Law and the Old Covenant are two different things though they are intimately connected. The New Covenant didn’t simply replace the Old Covenant. The New Covenant fulfilled the Old Covenant through Jesus Christ. All the promises of the OT are today for those who are in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile. And so also is the Law.

The believer under the New Covenant does NOT automatically become Lawless because of a perceived notion that grace and truth replaces the Law. Grace, truth, and the Law are all part and parcel of one whole.

Note that grace and truth “becameâ€, not “came†as it is in most English translations (John 1:17). Two different Greek words are used here. The Law came through Moses. Grace and truth “became†through Jesus Christ. That is how it reads in the Greek. There’s nothing wrong with the Law.

Romans 7:
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(KJV)

Paul says the problem is with man, not the Law. The Law is ineffectual in relation to man, except to make the sin within even more evident. The problem is within man. So to rectify this problem, grace and truth became through Jesus Christ. The ones who are in Christ, through the Holy Spirit, overcome the problem within man:

Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(KJV)


The life able to live according to the Law is in Christ. The ones who are in Christ who walk by the Spirit are no longer Lawless due to the carnal nature of man. No one is made righteous through keeping the Law. One is made righteous by being in Christ. One is practically conformed to righteousness by walking by the Spirit. In the end those who are in Christ will see Christ as he is because they will be as Christ is.

Salvation is by grace. By being put into Christ. By the faith of Christ, not our own faith or our own works. But that in no way nullifies the purpose of the Law for those who are in Christ. As a guide for daily living and knowing the difference between sin and righteous living. If the Law isn’t for the twenty first century believer, then why have any regard for the ten commandments? Because they are repeated in the NT? Why have any regard for the morality proclaimed by the Law? Why would this,

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(KJV)

be of any concern to anyone who lives in the twenty first century? Christians who desire to be free of the Law, interpret the bible so that they are excluded from being conformed to the Law. They hinder their own conformation to the image of Christ. They put themselves above the Law.

There is no prophecy of the OT or the NT that says that the Law will be abrogated. Rather, the bible says the Law will be written upon the hearts of men. The Law will become something living, instead of merely precepts written on stone, precepts impossible for man in Adam in his present condition to keep. A living Law is only possible for the ones who listen and do the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is only possible to those who walk by the Holy Spirit, who live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. For it is by this law that those who are in Christ are free from the law of sin and death. For it is by this law that the Law is fulfilled in those who are in Christ. In the ones who walk by the Holy Spirit instead of by the flesh.

There are not two Laws. The Law written on the heart and the Law in the Old Testament. The Law written on the heart of the one who is in Christ, and the Law of the Old Testament, are one and the same Law.

FC

 

[Former Christian]

Jethro Bodine

“Is there a specific Mosaic law that says we are not to eat human fleshâ€

Leviticus 11:3 ‘Whatever divides a hoof, thus making split hoofs, and chews the cud, among the animals, that you may eat.
(NASB)

Know any man or woman who fits that description? A mutant if so. Or worse. Not supposed to eat rabbits because though they chew the cud, they haven’t a split hoof. Not supposed to eat horses because though they have a split hoof, they don’t chew the cud. Squirrels and frogs are out. As are dogs and cats.

Read chapter 11. It’s all right there. But that chapter only concerns animals. There isn’t any Law about what plants to eat that I’m aware of. I guess if a person eats a poisonous plant, they simply die. But the OT does mention a few plants that are good for food. Wheat and barley for instance. Oats aren’t mentioned. But I’ve been eating oatmeal all my life. Hasn’t shown signs of hurting me as yet. May be it’s a close enough relative to wheat and barley to be OK.

Human culture rarely becomes so degraded as to be cannibalistic. But it happens. Note the Donner Party. The Cannibals in South America and Africa. Conscience and natural law is sometimes not enough for mankind in Adam to overcome degradation. How about Soylent Green? Fictional account I know. But it raises the question. In the Law there is no question. And the Law of the OT is the same Law that is written on the hearts of those who are in Christ. A Law written on the heart by the Holy Spirit through experiencing the teaching of Jesus Christ; the one who uses the OT to teach the Law to those who are in Christ.

Some seem to think that having the Law written on the heart is something automatic. That the one who is in Christ would just know the Law and would automatically just live the Law. Thus making the OT superfluous. Indeed, the whole bible superfluous. To some, the whole bible is summed up in the phrase, “believe in Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.†Don’t really need the bible once one saved. And how often they read the bible is determined by that point of view.

While things could have been accomplished that way, it wasn’t the way chosen by God. Like anything relating to life, the Law becomes alive in the believer as it’s experienced. It’s by experience through which the Holy Spirit writes the Law on our hearts. In Adam alone, the experience of the Law is only according to the death within. In those who are in Christ, who have Eternal Life by virtue of being in Christ, the Law is experienced according to the Life within, and the righteousness of the Law is being fulfilled in them.

FC

 

[Elijah674]

hello all

In the first minute of this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmL7Mw9oOKA from the film "Jesus of Nazareth", Jesus tells these words:

"The Commandments God gave to Moses so long ago must
not remain dead for the reverence of the unthinking mind,
stone is what the Law is written on, 'But the Law itself is
ALIVE and living things are constantly changing....
A man is made of flesh and blood and he changes, doesn't he
remain the same man ?
God wants to write the Law on your hearts"

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

Hi New.., :waving
One has the K.J. with this truth in many places. And as for Jesus saying it? He is the WORD Himself, right? It was He that Wrote the Eternal Covenant Himself! Deut. 5:22
[22] These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. (see also Matt. 4:4 & John 1:1-2)

So God Himself wrote the 10 Commandments. But the problem comes with His creation, they want to keep only 9 commandments if even that many. Who that does indeed have the ten commandments written in their heart would break even one & that over + over again?

James 2:10-11
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

And in the heart? Here are a couple verses. Heb. 8..
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, [[and write them in their hearts:]] and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

And again: There is NO mention of God Commanding only 9 of these, or that they are all done away with! (God/Forbid!) It only makes sense that the Required New Birth (John 3:3-8) does the complete work of wanting us to Lovingly Obey our New Master. See if this last verse in 2 Cor. 3:3 helps?

2Cor.3

[1] Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

[2] Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
(a Born Again Loving OBEDIENT WORKING FAITH. Yet, notice this Born Again 'Heart or Mind transplant!)


[3] Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

As Heb. documents, we see that the tables of stone are now recorded in the fleshy tables of ones heart. If they are? And where does it state that if ye love Me keep only 8 0r 9 of these? So you can answer the question yourself, asking it of a forum is like going to Jer. 17:5 with hardly any two teaching alike!2

And it was Christ in John that [DOCUMENTED] that.. 'If ye Love Me keep My Commandments'.

--Elijah

 

[meddlehaze]

Meddlehaze

“The Law is not for us in regards to salvation. The Christ follower is under Grace and not Law. God made a new covenant and put His Spirit in us, fulfilling prophecy.â€


If the Law is not for us today, then neither is the Old Testament. The Law was given in Exodus and the rest of the OT was written centered in that Law. Yet Paul said,

Romans 15:
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
(KJV)

2 Timothy 3:
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

Both portions refer to the OT. Paul quoted the OT constantly. Either Paul was a very mislead Pharisee or the OT, which includes the Law, is truly for the believer today.

That the Tabernacle ritual was fulfilled by Christ does not, indeed can not, change that fact. The Tabernacle ritual is the only part of the Law that could be considered as regarding salvation. The rest of the Law stands as is and is as much for us today as it was for the era in which it was written.

When Jesus uses the Bible to teach us today, he uses both the OT and the NT in his teaching. The bible is not a book of limitation. It is not a book that is only written to and for its own era, to be interpreted by men to make it applicable to twenty first century believers. The bible is a timeless book created in eternity. Either it all pertains to us today or none of it does. The bible interpreters have no legitimate right, except in their own minds, to pick and choose.

Christians create a false dichotomy when they try to make it grace vs. the Law. That is NOT the intention of any NT writer. The Law was given through Moses while grace and truth became through Jesus Christ (John 1:17). Yet the ultimate source of all was God. The Law is compatible with grace and truth. It’s not a matter of one or the other.

As the New Covenant began to take effect, the Old Covenant began to fade away. The Law and the Old Covenant are two different things though they are intimately connected. The New Covenant didn’t simply replace the Old Covenant. The New Covenant fulfilled the Old Covenant through Jesus Christ. All the promises of the OT are today for those who are in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile. And so also is the Law.

The believer under the New Covenant does NOT automatically become Lawless because of a perceived notion that grace and truth replaces the Law. Grace, truth, and the Law are all part and parcel of one whole.

Note that grace and truth “becameâ€, not “came†as it is in most English translations (John 1:17). Two different Greek words are used here. The Law came through Moses. Grace and truth “became†through Jesus Christ. That is how it reads in the Greek. There’s nothing wrong with the Law.

Romans 7:
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(KJV)

Paul says the problem is with man, not the Law. The Law is ineffectual in relation to man, except to make the sin within even more evident. The problem is within man. So to rectify this problem, grace and truth became through Jesus Christ. The ones who are in Christ, through the Holy Spirit, overcome the problem within man:

Romans 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(KJV)


The life able to live according to the Law is in Christ. The ones who are in Christ who walk by the Spirit are no longer Lawless due to the carnal nature of man. No one is made righteous through keeping the Law. One is made righteous by being in Christ. One is practically conformed to righteousness by walking by the Spirit. In the end those who are in Christ will see Christ as he is because they will be as Christ is.

Salvation is by grace. By being put into Christ. By the faith of Christ, not our own faith or our own works. But that in no way nullifies the purpose of the Law for those who are in Christ. As a guide for daily living and knowing the difference between sin and righteous living. If the Law isn’t for the twenty first century believer, then why have any regard for the ten commandments? Because they are repeated in the NT? Why have any regard for the morality proclaimed by the Law? Why would this,

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(KJV)

be of any concern to anyone who lives in the twenty first century? Christians who desire to be free of the Law, interpret the bible so that they are excluded from being conformed to the Law. They hinder their own conformation to the image of Christ. They put themselves above the Law.

There is no prophecy of the OT or the NT that says that the Law will be abrogated. Rather, the bible says the Law will be written upon the hearts of men. The Law will become something living, instead of merely precepts written on stone, precepts impossible for man in Adam in his present condition to keep. A living Law is only possible for the ones who listen and do the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is only possible to those who walk by the Holy Spirit, who live by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. For it is by this law that those who are in Christ are free from the law of sin and death. For it is by this law that the Law is fulfilled in those who are in Christ. In the ones who walk by the Holy Spirit instead of by the flesh.

There are not two Laws. The Law written on the heart and the Law in the Old Testament. The Law written on the heart of the one who is in Christ, and the Law of the Old Testament, are one and the same Law.

FC

You seem to have not read my entire post. For I said, the Law is not for us in regards to salvation. It is a tutor to show us that we are, in fact, sinners and in need of a Savior. It leads many, if not all, to Christ and grace.

The Old Testament serves a different purpose when one is under grace and not Levitical Law.

 

[Davies]

I have found this saying so close to my heart and mind and very progressive, but then again i want to be sure if it is genuine (spoken by Jesus/found in bible) or something exactly similar OR.. completely made up by the script writers of the film

Thank you

newbie_404,

As you can see from the previous posts, there is Scripture to support the law of God being written on our hearts. We all know it's wrong to kill, commit adultery, steal, and so forth... The confusion comes from knowing what laws apply and which ones don't which you should have noticed from previous posts. To keep this simple, we don't obey God's laws to be righteous, rather we obey God's laws because He has purchased our redemption through Jesus' death and resurrection. Because we are saved, we are motivated to keep the law, or as Paul puts it, "we establish the law."

Romans 3:27-31
New King James Version (NKJV)
Boasting Excluded


27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

As far as the six hundred and some odd laws the Jews still try to follow today, we new creatures in Christ don't have to follow them supported by this NT verse:

Acts 15:28-29
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[a] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

I suppose you can try to keep the Mosaic law, just know why you are doing it.

- Davies

 

[Drew]

If the law is not for us today, then neither is the Old Testament. An obvious fallacy since the NT writers quoted from the OT and commended it for our benefit.

You appear to assuming something very fundamental about the very nature of the scriptures - that is a book of "timeless truths". I suggest the following picture, which allows us to credibly say that the Law of Moses is not for us today yet the Old Testament is still otherwise deeply relevant:

1. The scriptures disclose an evolving narrative of God working through history;

2. It is therefore at least plausible that God does different things at different times;

3. It is at least plausible that the Law of Moses was given to nudge history to some particular state, and once that state is achieved, the Law is no longer needed;

4. Even if the Law of Moses is no longer needed, this does not mean that all the other stuff in the Old Testament - the record of God's dealing with Israel - is entirely irrelevant to us today. The Old Testament is not simply an expression of the Law of Moses!!! It is much, much more than this.

 

[newbie_404]

I appreciate your rich inputs, they are very informative and helpful,
Now i am more assured of the complete compatibility of that movie's scene with our bible and Christ.

my personal point of view on this :

in summary, its our God and natural duty to progress/develop, to always THINK and use our God given minds and reason BUT always doing so USING our HEARTS, heart and mind go hand in hand. At least thats how i see Jesus!
~~~God made the sabbath for man not man for the sabbath~~~


thank you

 

[smaller]

Even if the Law of Moses is no longer needed, this does not mean that all the other stuff in the Old Testament - the record of God's dealing with Israel - is entirely irrelevant to us today. The Old Testament is not simply an expression of the Law of Moses!!! It is much, much more than this.

Indeed, much more...

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.


11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

s

 

[Drew]

Indeed, much more...

Fair enough, however the fact that the Law of Moses was a good thing does not make it necessarily a permanent thing.

The scriptures are quite clear: The Law of Moses was "retired" around the events of Jesus' time.

Please - let no one make the error of arguing thus:

1. Drew is saying that the Law of Moses is "retired";
2. Therefore, Drew is saying that its not sin to murder, commit adultery, etc.

I am, of course, saying no such thing!

There is indeed a "law" that is written on the heart of the believer.

But this is most certainly not an "internal unwritten" copy of the Law of Moses.

 

[smaller]

Fair enough, however the fact that the Law of Moses was a good thing does not make it necessarily a permanent thing.

I can't in all honesty try to divide Gods Words of the O.T. from Gods Words in the N.T. It seems quite illogical to me to do so. I accept that there was a working in the natural then and in the spiritual later and forever.

The Words of the O.T. insist on the latter to be read and understood.

The scriptures are quite clear: The Law of Moses was "retired" around the events of Jesus' time.

As they may pertain to natural matters, indeed. This does not mean however that is ALL they were intended for. Read the Psalm again. There is the declaration of Gods Words and what they are, their qualities, the things we should seek to understand in same. The call of the Psalmist is not in vain. His Words are TRUE.

Please - let no one make the error of arguing thus:

1. Drew is saying that the Law of Moses is "retired";
2. Therefore, Drew is saying that its not sin to murder, commit adultery, etc.

I am, of course, saying no such thing!

Indeed. Jesus showed us that to even THINK such things is A SIN, particularly on the last law cited. The Law was always meant to show our factual internal condition of SIN. It has not failed in this regard for any of us.

There is indeed a "law" that is written on the heart of the believer.

But this is most certainly not an "internal unwritten" copy of the Law of Moses.

God has said that The Law will be written in the heart by Him. What then does that Law teach us but that we have sin and have sinned 'in heart?'

Being 'legal' was never an external matter to begin with. That was all just a show.

Matthew 12:5
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

enjoy!

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