Jesus said... well does it matter what Jesus said?

[wavy]

i am not a catholic but i do now understand why people separate all good works (Torah and otherwise) from Messiah.

we do them because it is obedience to Messiah through love and faith, as a testimony to our love and faith. we do it for him, not because we are trying to get into heaven by "filthy rag" righteousness.

yet people still want to create this false dilemma...

anyway, concerning titles of "father" and "rabbi/teachers" etc...

i think the answer is quite simple. it is you yourself self-appointing yourself as "father" and "rabbi" and "master" etc, and then having people address you by that title.

paul used "father" in the context of himself but only as a matephor. he wasn't being called "father" by anyone, and i think that creates the difference.

if i say "i am the teacher, so you need to listen so you can learn", i am not saying saying "address me as teacher". i'm making a point.

i believe we can only call one "Father" (other than our own earthly fathers, which i don't believe were included in the context of what Yahshua was saying), and that is YHWH in heaven.

thus, inevitably, i do believe catholics are wrong.

 

[Henry]

Thessalonian

I am not a protestant, I am a new testament house church member. We really see very little difference between you and them. But never the less we know that all in all, anyone in Christ is our brother or sister.

Maybe if you were not always on the attack people would respond to you. You are not the Catholic martyr guy.

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
Jesus says that the teachers are due respect for the position they hold, but only as far as they are within the word. He says they do not practice what they preach, how true is that today of our “clergyâ€Â, just read the papers. Preaching one thing and doing another.

We are to obey the word of God, and if a man is giving us that then we are to obey, but other wise he is nothing.

These guys were asking the people to do more then were willing to do themselves, or could do for that matter.

But that is not all, he goes on to show us that they do some things

1. They dress very fancy to be sure that everyone know what they are.
2. they take the best seats in the meeting
3. they love to be called by a title.

Sounds like the pastors and priest of this very day, who dress a certain way, have the biggest and most comfortable seats, and insist on being called by the title they have been given.

The fact is that Jesus does not condone the use of titles or anything that would elevate one brother above another. Call it what ever you will, but I call it Jesus Christ and His words, and I take it seriously.

 

[thessalonian]

Henry,

Maybe if you were not always on the attack people would respond to you.

People don't respoind to me?

You are not the Catholic martyr guy.

: What are you talking about Henry. First of all there is a whole lot of Catholic bashing goin on on this site. I don't take it personal. I expect it. Secondly the roots of your Church are protestant so whether you like it or not that is what you are. You belong to one of the New Testament Churches? Ah another denomination. When will the maddness of division end. Of course your little sect is the right one like every other little sect member tells me. "They will say look here, here he is, or look over there. Do not follow after them.".

Glad you think I'm a Christian Henry. Heidi says I'm a pagan. Most others think I'm lost as a goose in a snow storm as well. It's the guy at the pearly gates that matters. I strive to do HIS will.

 

[Henry]

Thessalonian

My friend I am not a prodestant, sorry but no matter what you say that is not me...

The church I am part of is the one that was started in the book of ACTS, and this my friend predates the Roman Catholic and the Prodestants, who in my opinion are equally trapped in pagan traditions.

Certainy I would call you a Christian, your faith in Christ makes you so. And I am not nearly qualified to judge the faith of another mans heart, you say so and that is good enough for me.

If you aren't then God will take of that.