John 15:1-6 and loss of slvation

[GodsGrace]

The Spirit was not poured out yet when He stated that. Did it not apply to His current audience? I have answered your question several times. Your assumption He's speaking of those sealed in Him by the Spirit is
mistaken. So, if you continue in His teachings or hold to His teachings would be how I read that. That is a sign that you really are His disciple. That they are those the FATHER has given HIM.
Now about those born of God they will not and cannot continue to Sin as I read. Which you don't answer because it doesn't fit your theology. How do they become UNBORN of God apart from sin?
Those who have the Spirit of Christ in them can NEVER be deceived away from the truth. The truth is more than just who Jesus is. It also includes all those warnings about abiding in Him. According to Paul Love fulfills ALL the commandments.
If you want to believe someone who knows Jesus as He knows the Father can be deceived away your free to do so. I don't share your belief in that. I tired of this subject.

What must I do to receive eternal life? Those born of God will keep these commands.
Keep these along with faith in Him and you will live.
“And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother, and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Those born of God WILL remain in HIm they do not and cannot continue to sin. They know Him as HE knows the Father.

You ignore that He keeps safe those BORN OF GOD. Not all others. You apparently don't believe this.
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was begotten of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

I'm not ignoring anything.

I'm posting, very simply, what JESUS said.

Are we now questioning what JESUS said?


Jesus said IF WE CONTINUE TO ABIDE IN HIM....

WHY

Did Jesus say IF we continue to abide in Him?

You continue to post different scripture which I'd be happy to get into....
but verse ping pong is not the way to discuss scripture.

Why did Jesus say IF you continue to abide in Me?

 

[Randy]

I'm not ignoring anything.

I'm posting, very simply, what JESUS said.

Are we now questioning what JESUS said?


Jesus said IF WE CONTINUE TO ABIDE IN HIM....

WHY

Did Jesus say IF we continue to abide in Him?

You continue to post different scripture which I'd be happy to get into....
but verse ping pong is not the way to discuss scripture.

Why did Jesus say IF you continue to abide in Me?

What Jesus stated is true.
In regard to those born again they will abide in Him. AGAIN how can they be unborn apart from sin?


We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

The verses I have given to you also are relative to the grace shown by God to keep His own from falling. It may be a matter of debate when one is chosen but those sealed in Christ by the spirit are chosen.

 

[GodsGrace]

What Jesus stated is true.

WHAT did Jesus say??

John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

In regard to those born again they will abide in Him. AGAIN how can they be unborn apart from sin?

No.

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.
This means it's possible for us to abandon Him.

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

I'm not discussing sin here.
I'm not discussing whether or not God keeps us safe.

I'm discussing John 15:5

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.

I'd like to concentrate on this verse because it seems to me that some on these Forums just will not heed the words of Jesus. They seem to make up their own theology.

What did Jesus mean by IF we remain in Him??

The verses I have given to you also are relative to the grace shown by God to keep His own from falling. It may be a matter of debate when one is chosen but those sealed in Christ by the spirit are chosen.

 

[Randy]

WHAT did Jesus say??

John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.



No.

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.
This means it's possible for us to abandon Him.


I'm not discussing sin here.
I'm not discussing whether or not God keeps us safe.

I'm discussing John 15:5

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.

I'd like to concentrate on this verse because it seems to me that some on these Forums just will not heed the words of Jesus. They seem to make up their own theology.

What did Jesus mean by IF we remain in Him??

It directly written Jesus keeps those born again safe.
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

That God is able to keep us from falling.
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

All things are possible with God.

Not all who call Him Lord Lord are born again.

So those who don't remain faithful to His commands must not be born again.

Your defining remaining in Him as one born again rather than those who hold to His commands.

You posted this
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

 

[GodsGrace]

It directly written Jesus keeps those born again safe.
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

That God is able to keep us from falling.
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

All things are possible with God.

Not all who call Him Lord Lord are born again.

So those who don't remain faithful to His commands must not be born again.

Your defining remaining in Him as one born again rather than those who hold to His commands.

You posted this
Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Right.
Jesus said that some BELIEVE FOR A WHILE and then fall away.
He said IF we continue to abide in Him...so it's possible to fall away if Jesus is warning us.

If Jesus said it Randy, it must be true.

Everything you've been writing is good...
but why you refuse to believe that obedience to God is necessary in order to REMAIN saved is a mystery to me.

But I believe this convo should be over.
God bless you, as I'm sure He has.

 

[Randy]

Right.
Jesus said that some BELIEVE FOR A WHILE and then fall away.
He said IF we continue to abide in Him...so it's possible to fall away if Jesus is warning us.

If Jesus said it Randy, it must be true.

Everything you've been writing is good...
but why you refuse to believe that obedience to God is necessary in order to REMAIN saved is a mystery to me.

Those born again will not continue and cannot continue to sin. How is that disobedience?
The fruit of obedience, love, should be seen in those born of God. They also know Christ as He knows the Father and can never be deceived away from the truth as God keeps them safe and the evil one cannot harm them.

But I believe this convo should be over.
God bless you, as I'm sure He has.

Judas wasn't born again so it must be true. Just as what's stated about those who are born again is also true as they will remain in Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those born again will not continue and cannot continue to sin. How is that disobedience?
The fruit of obedience, love, should be seen in those born of God. They also know Christ as He knows the Father and can never be deceived away from the truth as God keeps them safe and the evil one cannot harm them.

Judas wasn't born again so it must be true. Just as what's stated about those who are born again is also true as they will remain in Him.

Ok Randy.
We're just repeating.
I don't believe the NT teaches OSAS.
So I'll end it here.

 

[Randy]

Ok Randy.
We're just repeating.
I don't believe the NT teaches OSAS.
So I'll end it here.

It does teach grace.
I knew with certainty Jesus Lives even before receiving the Spirit of Christ in me. No power can deceive me away from Him. He wouldn't allow it anyway as its His Fathers will to raise us up on the last day and no one can snatch us from His hands.

Ok lets end here.

 

[JLB]

Equal" doesn't make angels sons of God,

I never said equal means angels are sons of God.

Equal doesn’t apply to the angels.

Equal is used in reference to those who are resurrected from the dead; the dead in Christ being equal to the angels.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

• they are equal to the angels and are sons of God

Angels are plainly referred to as sons of God.

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 1:6-7

These are angels who presented themselves before the LORD.

This was not taking place on earth.

Satan had come from the earth.


“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:4-7

Again this was referring to the time before Adam and Even were on the earth.

Sons of God are angels.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Angels are indeed sons of God.

Angels are not begotten sons of God.

Only Jesus is the Only begotten Son of God.

• for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

JLB, in the Bible's language, Jesus is the only Son of God, that is, the unique, divine-human Son. Humans are adopted sons and daughters of God. Angels are God's created beings, not at all born of anyone.

 

[GodsGrace]

JLB, in the Bible's language, Jesus is the only Son of God, that is, the unique, divine-human Son. Humans are adopted sons and daughters of God. Angels are God's created beings, not at all born of anyone.

ALL humans are sons of God. (we are not all children of God).
God created all of us.

In the Bible's language ONLY JESUS is the SON OF MAN.

Being labeled THE SON OF GOD does not necessarily prove Jesus is God.
Being labeled THE SON OF MAN does prove that Jesus is God.

You are a son of God.
But You are not The Son of Man.

 

[tdidymas]

Yes.
If a person returns to a sinful life....
he will once gain become lost.
Those that abide in Christ do not lead sinful lives....
if they do, it means they have returned to a life of being severed from God.


Do you believe unbelievers are required to obey God?


I do understand Tdidmas.
I'M saying that obedience to God DOES gain eternal life.

Result or not.....Jesus said that we are to ACT on HIS words.
This means that we are to obey Him.
Obedience causes us to have eternal life.

Paul taught:

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Romans 2:5-8
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Jesus taught:
John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Both Jesus and Paul taught that we (believers) will be judged by our deeds.
As did all the writers of the NT.

Agreed.

Agreed.

No wrong conclusion.
You've again stated above that obedience to God does not get us saved....
I've shown that it does with scripture.

However, I've never seen a verse that states that even if we do not obey God,,,
we will still be saved.

Your two questions have been answered.

I see you answered the 1st question. But it begs another question, do you then believe that you are kept in the faith by your own deeds and determination, rather than being kept by God?

You said, "You've again stated above that obedience to God does not get us saved....
I've shown that it does with scripture."
This is where our paths diverge, because I say you are misinterpreting scripture. Based on your response, it seems to me that you can't deal with scriptural statements like:
1. Christ died for the ungodly (not for those who think they are obeying)
2. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us
3. By grace we have been saved through faith, and that not of ourselves; not of works...
4. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes
5. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross
6. We conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law

But you have to somehow work around all this and try to make it mean something it doesn't mean; or else, you ignore it and keep quoting your "prooftexts" to support your house of cards.

 

[tdidymas]

I never said equal means angels are sons of God.

Equal doesn’t apply to the angels.

Equal is used in reference to those who are resurrected from the dead; the dead in Christ being equal to the angels.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

• they are equal to the angels and are sons of God

Angels are plainly referred to as sons of God.

No, they are not. You are reading this into the text. Men resurrected are sons of the resurrection which means they are sons of God. It doesn't say that about angels. Show me any verse of scripture that even implies that angels are begat of God (I doubt it).

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 1:6-7

These are angels who presented themselves before the LORD.

Satan is not a son of God, and neither does it say so anywhere. The sons of God are human believers in the only true God. This is the definition of sons of God clearly told us in the NT, which is explaining who the sons of God are, mentioned in the OT. Moses called believing Israelites "sons of the Most High." So it is human beings that it's talking about, since this is how the Bible repeatedly defines the term "sons of God."

That statement in Job is applied to us today, since we meet together to worship the only true God. We are presenting ourselves before the LORD as they did then, and Satan or other devils come among us to accuse us before God night and day. It happens now just as it did then, there is no difference.

I understand your error, as many follow the tradition of the Book of Enoch in misinterpreting the scripture. That book is fiction, and was written about 250BC, thousands of years after Enoch was long gone.

This was not taking place on earth.

Satan had come from the earth.


“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:4-7

Again this was referring to the time before Adam and Even were on the earth.

Sons of God are angels.

I disagree with your interpretation, I consider it false, even though this is commonly thought, and this scripture is highly controversial. But it is pure speculation, because it doesn't say that. Job is poetry and has very exaggerative language, in addition to personifications. This section is metaphoric in nature. Yet, do not human sons of God shout with joy over the beauty of God's creation? But to claim a "when" this happened is also adding more speculation, since you're assuming a chronology in a section that is metaphorical in nature.

My point is that it is not good hermeneutical practice to formulate doctrine on an obscure statement, and impose that speculative interpretation on other portions of scripture. So if you continue in this vein, I will be diverging from this conversation, because if you don't listen to what I'm saying here, you won't listen to anything.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

WHAT did Jesus say??

John 15:5
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.



No.

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.
This means it's possible for us to abandon Him.


I'm not discussing sin here.
I'm not discussing whether or not God keeps us safe.

I'm discussing John 15:5

Jesus said IF we continue to abide in Him.

I'd like to concentrate on this verse because it seems to me that some on these Forums just will not heed the words of Jesus. They seem to make up their own theology.

What did Jesus mean by IF we remain in Him??

Yes, GodsGrace, Jesus did say John 15:5, but what did he mean by the vine to which he compared himself as his connection to his people. For example, what people are the branches?

Look at Psalm 80, which is Jesus' background to his metaphor, the whole people of God, some of whom are unbelievers:

Psa 80:8 You brought a vine out of Egypt; you drove out the nations and planted it.
Psa 80:9 You cleared the ground for it; it took deep root and filled the land.
Psa 80:10 The mountains were covered with its shade, the mighty cedars with its branches.
Psa 80:11 It sent out its branches to the sea and its shoots to the River.
Psa 80:12 Why then have you broken down its walls, so that all who pass along the way pluck its fruit?
Psa 80:13 The boar from the forest ravages it, and all that move in the field feed on it.
Psa 80:14 Turn again, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven, and see; have regard for this vine,
Psa 80:15 the stock that your right hand planted, and for the son whom you made strong for yourself.
Psa 80:16 They have burned it with fire; they have cut it down; may they perish at the rebuke of your face!

The unfruitful "branches" are pruned because they have never really given their lives to Jesus, though they have professed to believe in him as parts of God's visible church. Staying in the vine to produce fruit is what Jesus' teaching is about, not whether or not we can lose our salvation, which isn't really possible.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Yes.
If a person returns to a sinful life....
he will once gain become lost.
Those that abide in Christ do not lead sinful lives....
if they do, it means they have returned to a life of being severed from God.


Do you believe unbelievers are required to obey God?


I do understand Tdidmas.
I'M saying that obedience to God DOES gain eternal life.

Result or not.....Jesus said that we are to ACT on HIS words.
This means that we are to obey Him.
Obedience causes us to have eternal life.

Paul taught:

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Romans 2:5-8
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
Jesus taught:
John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Both Jesus and Paul taught that we (believers) will be judged by our deeds.
As did all the writers of the NT.

Agreed.

Agreed.

No wrong conclusion.
You've again stated above that obedience to God does not get us saved....
I've shown that it does with scripture.

However, I've never seen a verse that states that even if we do not obey God,,,
we will still be saved.

Your two questions have been answered.

GodsGrace, if our good works will bring God's judgment of "not guilty," we will all be condemned as guilty before our divine Judge, because he expects absolute perfection. Even total unbelievers will admit that nobody's perfect.

Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Therefore, we're all worthy of going to hell, where we would be separated from God's powerful, perfect presence forever. All of the passages you cite describe the final judgment.

However, at that that judicial trial, only those people who have been able to do good deeds will have God's verdict of not guilty. We can only do truly-good deeds because of faith in Jesus' life, death, and resurrection as our Substitute, who takes our guilt and gives us his righteousness ("justified" means the Judge's verdict of not guilty):

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

 

[JLB]

JLB, in the Bible's language, Jesus is the only Son of God, that is, the unique, divine-human Son. Humans are adopted sons and daughters of God. Angels are God's created beings, not at all born of anyone.

I agree. Angels are created sons of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, GodsGrace, Jesus did say John 15:5, but what did he mean by the vine to which he compared himself as his connection to his people. For example, what people are the branches?

Look at Psalm 80, which is Jesus' background to his metaphor, the whole people of God, some of whom are unbelievers:

Psa 80:8 You brought a vine out of Egypt; you drove out the nations and planted it.
Psa 80:9 You cleared the ground for it; it took deep root and filled the land.
Psa 80:10 The mountains were covered with its shade, the mighty cedars with its branches.
Psa 80:11 It sent out its branches to the sea and its shoots to the River.
Psa 80:12 Why then have you broken down its walls, so that all who pass along the way pluck its fruit?
Psa 80:13 The boar from the forest ravages it, and all that move in the field feed on it.
Psa 80:14 Turn again, O God of hosts! Look down from heaven, and see; have regard for this vine,
Psa 80:15 the stock that your right hand planted, and for the son whom you made strong for yourself.
Psa 80:16 They have burned it with fire; they have cut it down; may they perish at the rebuke of your face!

The unfruitful "branches" are pruned because they have never really given their lives to Jesus, though they have professed to believe in him as parts of God's visible church. Staying in the vine to produce fruit is what Jesus' teaching is about, not whether or not we can lose our salvation, which isn't really possible.

I've read your ecplanation above.

Cannot agree.

Jesus said EVERY BRANCH IN ME...

Who is IN CHRIST?

A believer of course.

Jesus was speaking to believers.

Verse 2 of John 15 also states that God PRUNES branches that DO bear fruit so that they can produce even more.

Jesus knew the Old Testament.
Psalm 80 does not fit.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace, if our good works will bring God's judgment of "not guilty," we will all be condemned as guilty before our divine Judge, because he expects absolute perfection. Even total unbelievers will admit that nobody's perfect.

Works don't save us.
Faith does.

Mat 5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

You know very well that Jesus didn't mean that we are to be perfect or John 20:23 would make no sense.

Therefore, we're all worthy of going to hell, where we would be separated from God's powerful, perfect presence forever. All of the passages you cite describe the final judgment.

I know they described the final judgment. This is the point.

However, at that that judicial trial, only those people who have been able to do good deeds will have God's verdict of not guilty. We can only do truly-good deeds because of faith in Jesus' life, death, and resurrection as our Substitute, who takes our guilt and gives us his righteousness ("justified" means the Judge's verdict of not guilty):

Agreed.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

Bruce, I don't have my computer and cannot reply on a cell properly.
I agree with the above.

What I'm saying is that God requires us...the saved...to obey Him.

Why do you think I get push back?
Doesn't God want our obedience?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

I've read your ecplanation above.

Cannot agree.

Jesus said EVERY BRANCH IN ME...

Who is IN CHRIST?

A believer of course.

Jesus was speaking to believers.

Verse 2 of John 15 also states that God PRUNES branches that DO bear fruit so that they can produce even more.

Jesus knew the Old Testament.
Psalm 80 does not fit.

GodsGrace, God made two relationships with people, the old covenant with Abraham's descendants, Israel, and also with individual believers, who are clearly in Christ. The larger group are described as God's sons, who came out of Egypt:

Hos_11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Mat_2:15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

The prophecy by Hosea identifies the people of Israel as his children, Psalm 80 uses the metaphor of God's people as God's vine with their branches mostly unbelieving rebels, who died both in the desert and in exile. They are in the vine but have been pruned off of it. However, the covenant with the believing remnant holds true, which becomes the new covenant.

Jesus says John 15 to his disciples, who are not all true believers, perhaps including Judas Iscariot. Therefore, the vine illustration of Psalm 80 remains as the background of John 15.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace, God made two relationships with people, the old covenant with Abraham's descendants, Israel, and also with individual believers, who are clearly in Christ. The larger group are described as God's sons, who came out of Egypt:

Hos_11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
Mat_2:15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

The prophecy by Hosea identifies the people of Israel as his children, Psalm 80 uses the metaphor of God's people as God's vine with their branches mostly unbelieving rebels, who died both in the desert and in exile. They are in the vine but have been pruned off of it. However, the covenant with the believing remnant holds true, which becomes the new covenant.

Jesus says John 15 to his disciples, who are not all true believers, perhaps including Judas Iscariot. Therefore, the vine illustration of Psalm 80 remains as the background of John 15.

Again

John 15:2
WHO are those IN CHRIST?