John 3:13 Is this Elijah? Melchezidek?

[bodhitharta]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

 

[Cornelius]

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.

Its spiritual. Jesus Christ lived in heaven , while on earth. If we are only going to try and understand this in the letter, we will not understand. Jesus saw the Father and only followed His lead, when He was on earth.

In a way, you are correct about Melchizedek. Jesus is of the order of Melchizedek, Who lived "behind the veil" (which is heaven, or the presence of God ) Heb 6:19 which we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and stedfast and entering into that which is within the veil;
Heb 6:20 whither as a forerunner Jesus entered for us, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

This is the same as us being seated in heavenly places.


Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ: Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:
Christ Jesus is in heaven, so if we are "in Him" we too are in heaven. We too are seated, where He is sitting:Eph 1:20 which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and made him to sit at his right hand in the heavenly places,

Luk 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

If the Kingdom is within you, and God reigns in His kingdom, and He reigns in heaven. where is heaven?

Mar 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Now look at the same scripture in Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

One is earth and heaven, the other one, the angels gather the living elect, from one end of heaven to the other. Both scriptures are correct, because in these verses its talking about heaven, where we are living already in the spirit.

This does not mean that there is not a place called Heaven and that we cannot go there after we die. But we indeed already in the spirit are part of heaven.

Joh 3:13 And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.
That means that its only Christ in us, that goes to heaven. Not our old nature and sinful self. Only the Fruit (Christ) can go back to God, because no one has ascended into heaven, but He (Christ) that descended out of heaven.

 

[Heidi]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

Since Jesus is the Son of man with a capital "s" then it's talking about Jesus. It obviously means that Jesus is from heaven and that Jesus is bringing salvation to humanity because he's bringing redemption and the inevitable condemnation for rejecting him. All scripture has to be put together. One simply doesn't look for individual contradictions in each translation to try to prove the bible wrong or several bibles wrong. That's not reading the bible with faith. In every translation you have to interpret scripture with other scripture.

 

[MMarc]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

Hey Bod, can I ask you,

WHAT DOES YOUR SPIRIT CONFESS?

Thank you

 

[Croc7801]

3:13 -(NASB)
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man."

The KJV rendering is not accurate in the way it was translated. Doesn't happen very frequently, but does happen.

There is only one "Son of Man"; the God-man Jesus.

 

[bodhitharta]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

Hey Bod, can I ask you,

WHAT DOES YOUR SPIRIT CONFESS?

Thank you

What do you mean? When I first realized what it said my first thought was Elijah because Elijah did Ascend to heaven and is in heaven.


2 Kings 2:10-12 (King James Version)

10And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.


The truth is the truth.

Remember Jesus made this statement while he is on earth:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Mark 9:11-13 (King James Version)

11And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

 

[Heidi]

Only in the OT are the prophets referred to as the "son of man" because they were the only ones who spoke for God. Then when Jesus came who ushered in the new covenant did we actually have God on earth. So since then, only Jesus is called the Son of Man.

 

[bodhitharta]

Only in the OT are the prophets referred to as the "son of man" because they were the only ones who spoke for God. Then when Jesus came who ushered in the new covenant did we actually have God on earth. So since then, only Jesus is called the Son of Man.

Job 25 (King James Version)

6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?

Numbers 23 (King James Version)

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

Your kinda mixing the 2 lessons.....

Melchezidek is Christ......No one has gone up to heaven except he who has come down....

THe word "he" is not referring to Christ but to everyone......We start out as souls/spiritual bodys then we are put in wombs,,,then we die and go back,,,, simple...

 

[Croc7801]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

Matthew 11 -
13 "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 "And if you are willing to accept {it,} John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Elijah = "my God is Jehovah"

1. a prophet born at Thisbe, the unflinching champion of the theocracy in the reigns of the idolatrous kings Ahab and Ahaziah. He was taken up to heaven without dying, whence the Jews expected he would return just before the advent of the Messiah, whom he would prepare the minds of the Israelites to receive.

 

[samuel]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. KJV

The KJV rendering is not accurate in the way it was translated. Doesn't happen very frequently, but does happen.

There is no error in the KJV here, the only error is in a failure to properly understand what Jesus said. Just as he said Nicodemus would not, previously in verse 12.

 

[Croc7801]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. KJV

The KJV rendering is not accurate in the way it was translated. Doesn't happen very frequently, but does happen.

There is no error in the KJV here, the only error is in a failure to properly understand what Jesus said. Just as he said Nicodemus would not, previously in verse 12.

Have you looked at the Greek on the verse? I did and then compared other versions to see the correct rendering. I did say the translation into English was incorrect; that's all.

Nicodemus must of understood something since Scripture records he rebuke the Pharisees in defense of Jesus and later helped Joseph get a proper Jewish burial. I can't be dogmatic; but I believe he received Christ.

God Bless!

 

[samuel]

I agree! that Nicodemus came to an understanding, at some point in time. But from his reply, I don't think it was at this point.

I still contend the KJV translation is not in error, if anything those who consult the Greek have commited the error. God is not in a box, unfortunately a lot of people do not understand that. Neither was/is Jesus. As far as what he said, it is exactly as the KJV has it.

 

[Sinthesis]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

John 3:13 is not talking about Elijah or Melchezidek. There are several ways of looking at this.

---

First; some translations other than the YNG handle the verse differently:

NASB - "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

RSV - No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.

NKJV - No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.*
Footnote:* NU-Text omits who is in heaven.

NLT - For only I, the Son of Man,* have come to earth and will return to heaven again.
Footnote:* Some manuscripts add who lives in heaven.

NIV - No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.*
Footnote:* Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven

ESV - “No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.*
Footnote:* Some manuscripts add who is in heaven

---

Second; the definition of Strong's G1722 ("in") could also be; 'by', 'with', 'among', 'at', 'on', 'through', or 'miscellaneous', in which case the spacial problem of the original post can be avoided.

---

Third; John 3:13 can be looked at as a companion verse to John 8:58.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus suggests his divinity to the Pharisees by proclaiming his eternal nature via a seemingly temporal contradiction.

John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, {even} the Son of man which is in heaven.

Here Jesus suggests his divinity to a Pharisee (Nicodemus) by proclaiming his infinite nature via a seemingly spatial contradiction.

If Jesus is only a man then these verses are illogical . Yet they make perfect sense when applied to Jesus Christ as God, who is by nature unlimited in time and space. As difficult as this may seem to us, Jesus' teaching was eventually successful in convincing Nicodemus. However, unbelievers who cannot accept the Divine nature of Christ will continue to find this verse a stumbling block.

FYI, a similar verse is:
John 7:34 - Ye shall seek me, and shall not find {me}: and where I am, {thither} ye cannot come.

 

[bodhitharta]

John 3:13 seems to be talking about Elijah or Melchezidek because it says:

John 3:13 (Young's Literal Translation)

13and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

Jesus couldn't be talking about himself here because he is not "in" heaven when this verse is being spoken.

John 3:13 is not talking about Elijah or Melchezidek. There are several ways of looking at this.

---

First; some translations other than the YNG handle the verse differently:

NASB - "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

RSV - No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.

NKJV - No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.*
Footnote:* NU-Text omits who is in heaven.

NLT - For only I, the Son of Man,* have come to earth and will return to heaven again.
Footnote:* Some manuscripts add who lives in heaven.

NIV - No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.*
Footnote:* Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven

ESV - “No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.*
Footnote:* Some manuscripts add who is in heaven

---

Second; the definition of Strong's G1722 ("in") could also be; 'by', 'with', 'among', 'at', 'on', 'through', or 'miscellaneous', in which case the spacial problem of the original post can be avoided.

---

Third; John 3:13 can be looked at as a companion verse to John 8:58.

John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here Jesus suggests his divinity to the Pharisees by proclaiming his eternal nature via a seemingly temporal contradiction.

John 3:13 - And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, {even} the Son of man which is in heaven.

Here Jesus suggests his divinity to a Pharisee (Nicodemus) by proclaiming his infinite nature via a seemingly spatial contradiction.

If Jesus is only a man then these verses are illogical . Yet they make perfect sense when applied to Jesus Christ as God, who is by nature unlimited in time and space. As difficult as this may seem to us, Jesus' teaching was eventually successful in convincing Nicodemus. However, unbelievers who cannot accept the Divine nature of Christ will continue to find this verse a stumbling block.

FYI, a similar verse is:
John 7:34 - Ye shall seek me, and shall not find {me}: and where I am, {thither} ye cannot come.

Yes, but Elijah did in-fact Ascend to Heaven alive so yes someone did ascend to heaven before Jesus was born. What do you say about that fact?

 

[samuel]

FYI - here is another of those verses.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

We know this was before his crucifixion, but is referenced as if it were after. You are correct! God is not limited to time and space as we are, but most don't seem to realize that.

 

[samuel]

Yes, but Elijah did in-fact Ascend to Heaven alive so yes someone did ascend to heaven before Jesus was born. What do you say about that fact?

Oh so that is a fact??. Well since the corruptible cannot inherit the incorruptible, Elijah could not have ascended into the presence of God alive. At this point in time he would have not ascended into the third Heaven in the first place, but into paradise.

Besides before Elijah was, Jesus was. Chew on that.

 

[bodhitharta]

Yes, but Elijah did in-fact Ascend to Heaven alive so yes someone did ascend to heaven before Jesus was born. What do you say about that fact?

Oh so that is a fact??. Well since the corruptible cannot inherit the incorruptible, Elijah could not have ascended into the presence of God alive. At this point in time he would have not ascended into the third Heaven in the first place, but into paradise.

Besides before Elijah was, Jesus was. Chew on that.

It does not matter who was first or second the fact is that Elijah did ascend to heaven unless you are saying that the bible was incorrect about Elijah and you also believe that Jesus was wrong aboout Elijah is Jesus and the bible wrong about Elijah?

 

[samuel]

No the Bible would not be incorrect, in the fact that Elijah did ascend into heaven. Just not into the third heaven, or Gods presence. Prior to Jesus taking captivity captive, no one had ascended anywhere except paradise.

Because if that were the case, Jesus would be a liar. He said that no man had ascended into heaven, except he who first descended. He spoke of himself.

 

[bodhitharta]

No the Bible would not be incorrect, in the fact that Elijah did ascend into heaven. Just not into the third heaven, or Gods presence. Prior to Jesus taking captivity captive, no one had ascended anywhere except paradise.

Because if that were the case, Jesus would be a liar. He said that no man had ascended into heaven, except he who first descended. He spoke of himself.

Jesus said no none has ascended to heaven except the one who came down from heaven and the bible says that Elijah ascended to heaven and it say he was a man. There is no mention of a third heaven or God's presence.