Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF "LIM

Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

"election" is a biblical fact.

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Of Course it is George, for those that just have a bible and no other means to look up scriptures or those stuck in some traditional church with no power of God. I bet is does appear to be a fact. You post scriptures but don't take the time to expound on this.

Who are the Children George...................Romans 9:8 George, read it and stop posting select scriptures to make Paul say something he never did.

Why did God hate Esau? Was it just something God decided? You don't even know what Esau did, do you?

You act like a man Calvin was who had no other tools but to memorize the bible and try to compare scriptures from notes and memory. The only difference is that Calvin was far more diligent.

Now answer the two question.

Mike.
 
Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

Romans 5:18 states in English (KJV): Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18) Calvin's comment on Romans 5:18, as translated and published in the COMMENTARY ON ROMANS AND THESSALONIANS, 1973, pp. 117-18 [as published by Eerdmans in Grand Rapids] was: "Paul makes grace COMMON TO ALL MEN, not because it in fact EXTENDS TO ALL, but because IT IS OFFERED TO ALL. Although CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD. AND IS OFFERED BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WITHOUT DISTINCTION TO ALL MEN, yet not all receive him (op. cit., p. 829). If indeed Christ "SUFFERED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD," John Calvin was himself (at least at the time of his writing this Commentary on Romans) a confirmed believer, as is the BIBLE FOR TODAY, in an "UNLIMITED ATONEMENT" of the Lord Jesus Christ!


This is the quote from Calvin's Commentary - I don't know that I read it as the author of the statement does.
Romans 5:18 KJV
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Quote from Calvin's Commentaries on Romans 5:18 http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.ix.x.html

Therefore, etc. This is a defective sentence; it will be complete if the words condemnation and justification be read in the nominative case; as doubtless you must do in order to complete the sense. We have here the general conclusion from the preceding comparison; for, omitting the mention of the intervening explanation, he now completes the comparison, “As by the offense of one we were made (constitute) sinners; so the righteousness of Christ is efficacious to justify us. He does not say the righteousness — δικαιοσύνην, but the justification — δικαίωμα, of Christ, in order to remind us that he was not as an individual just for himself, but that the righteousness with which he was endued reached farther, in order that, by conferring this gift, he might enrich the faithful. He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.
These two words, which he had before used, judgment and grace, may be also introduced here in this form, “As it was through God’s judgment that the sin of one issued in the condemnation of many, so grace will be efficacious to the justification of many.” Justification of life is to be taken, in my judgment, for remission, which restores life to us, as though he called it life-giving For whence comes the hope of salvation, except that God is propitious to us; and we must be just, in order to be accepted. Then life proceeds from justification."

I took the liberty of bolding text. I find it to be his understanding put into two simply sentences.

So I believe that he did very much believe in "limited atonement". The problem arises when men take what Calvin said and change it and say such things as, "Jesus only shed enough blood to cover the sins of those who would be saved." "He didn't die for everyone's sin, only those who will be saved."
In my opinion, that is twisting the words that Calvin did say.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

Calvinist don't descredit any thing. God does and rightly so for he is Sovergn in all he does.
so if i say God is long suffering toward us not willing any should perish you would say?
 
Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

"election" is a biblical fact.

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Of Course it is George, for those that just have a bible and no other means to look up scriptures or those stuck in some traditional church with no power of God. I bet is does appear to be a fact. You post scriptures but don't take the time to expound on this.

Who are the Children George...................Romans 9:8 George, read it and stop posting select scriptures to make Paul say something he never did.

Why did God hate Esau? Was it just something God decided? You don't even know what Esau did, do you?

You act like a man Calvin was who had no other tools but to memorize the bible and try to compare scriptures from notes and memory. The only difference is that Calvin was far more diligent.

Now answer the two question.

Mike.
Not sure what you mean "for those that just have a bible" Not sure of your points at all? And the scripture declares that God (elected) Jacob before they where even born, That "election" had nothing to do with what Esau did or did not do.
 
Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

Not sure what you mean "for those that just have a bible" Not sure of your points at all? And the scripture declares that God (elected) Jacob before they where even born, That "election" had nothing to do with what Esau did or did not do.

You did not understand the questions. No surprise. I don't Agree with Calvin, but reading his Work, He was a diligent man to have come up with the understandings He did.
 
Re: JOHN CALVIN HIMSELF MODIFIED HIS POSITION AND OPPOSED HIS OWN FORMER TEACHING OF

I think Brother Calvin was a goof ball. I don't believe in Election,


"election" is a biblical fact.

Ro 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I agree, election is a Biblical fact.

Would you agree that this scripture describes that election in that..

Romans 9:11
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Is Paul using this OT scripture to teach not by works but by grace? through faith? The Gospel message.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is a gift that cannot be earned by works?
 
Back
Top