Bible Study Just What ARE Pentecostal "Tongues"?

[SputnikBoy]

I believe that I know what they are not ...but, I wonder if someone who claims to 'speak in tongues' would tell me:
1. What - precisely - are they?
2. Are they definitely given by the Holy Spirit?
3. How do you know this?
4. For what specific purpose are they given?
5. How can one determine 'the fake' from 'the genuine' when they sound the same?

Thanks.

 

[starbyfar]

I'm not sure why you refer to them as 'pentecostal tounges' because i've visited many denominations of churches where people spoke in tounges.

In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul speaks to the church in Corinth about tounges. If you read that chapter it'll tell you everything you need to know about it, and it answers all the questions you listed.

I have never spoken in tounges, but i've been to a couple of odd churches that claimed they could teach members how, or had special times during church where the whole congregation began speaking in tounges. Neither of those examples are biblical, and reading through that chapter will help you see why.

 

[lecoop]

I believe that I know what they are not ...but, I wonder if someone who claims to 'speak in tongues' would tell me:
1. What - precisely - are they?
"Tongues" are speaking by the human spirit in a heavenly langauge provided by the HS. We see this in this verse: (color changed)

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

When tongues are spoken, the mind is bypassed, and the speach passes from the human spirit to the mouth, and bypasses the brain. This is why Paul said, "the understanding is unfruitful." The mind has no idea what is being said. Speaking by the mind, then, and speaking by the spirit, are mutually exclusive.

2. Are they definitely given by the Holy Spirit?
Tongues are given initially as the evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. We see this here:

[quote:e170d]Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Luke writes this about the whole group that started speaking in tongues when they received the baptism with the HS. If they can use tongues as the initial evidence, then so can we.

3. How do you know this?
First we know by the word. Second, we know from personal experience. It seems to be that this baptism of the HS is for all - that is, for all who can believe. People that fight, speak, and write against this experience will simply not receive it, unless they change. People that are open the the HS can tell imediately when something is given in a service that is not the Holy Spirit. It is like throwing a bucket of water on a fire! Something from the enemy quenches the Holy Spirit. Why would God give a fake, when HE promised to give the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit baptism caused men to speak in tongues then; why not now? Indeed, for the last 100 years or so, this Pentecostal blessing has spread around the world. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for anyone that can believe, and the initial evidence is speaking in tongues.


4. For what specific purpose are they given?
They are given first for a prayer language. We see this when Paul says, "I speak in tongues more than ye all," but yet says gives us many verses showing that He did not use tongues in a service. Where then, since he spoke tongues more that any of them? In his prayer life. Indeed, for experience, I can say the same thing. It is a language meant to speak to God, as Paul said, "...speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him;" Next, they are given for ministry in a local body of believers, as a message of prophecy given in tongues, to be interpreted. Last, sometimes God allows people to hear tongues in their own language, as happened in Acts 2.

5. How can one determine 'the fake' from 'the genuine' when they sound the same?
Again, we can recognize fake from the real, but the Holy Spirit in us. When heavenly tongues are spoken, (when done in order) God is glorified, and the Spirit is not quenched. When someone speaks something that is not from the Holy Spirit, the anointing leaves.

Thanks.[/quote:e170d]

 

[AVBunyan]

I believe that I know what they are not ...but, I wonder if someone who claims to 'speak in tongues' would tell me:
1. What - precisely - are they?
2. Are they definitely given by the Holy Spirit?
3. How do you know this?
4. For what specific purpose are they given?
5. How can one determine 'the fake' from 'the genuine' when they sound the same?

Thanks.

Mind if I crash the party here though I am not a tongue speaker?

The asnwers to most of the above is found in 2 simple verses:

1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1. Foreign languages in the early part of Acts - a transitional book going from the kingdom age message to Israel on to the age of grace given to the body of Christ.

2. They were then....

3. Acts 2 and other places.

4. Look at first verse - real simple and clear - they were for a sign given to unbelievers - and at that time the unbelievers were unbelieving Jews who rejected the kingdom age message and the messenger, Christ their Messiah.

Question - are you an unbelieving Jew during Acts who rejected the kingdom age message? If not then leave tongues alone - they are not for you or anybody else today for nobody else today fits the criteria. See #5 below.

5. God is not dealing with Israel as a nation today.

Now - this issue is real simple unless...unless...you cannot tell the difference of how God deals with Israel during Acts (transitional book) and how God deals with the body of Christ today.

God bless

 

[MrVersatile48]

I'm not very good at PC techno, so I'll reply in bold between lines, OK?

The answers to most of the above is found in 2 simple verses:

1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1. Foreign languages in the early part of Acts - a transitional book going from the kingdom age message to Israel on to the age of grace given to the body of Christ.

In Acts 2, yes, the tongues spoken were foreign languages, as it says that all the highly cosmopolitan crowd, gathered in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost, each heard the message in their own tongue

But 1 Cor 13:1 talks also @ tongues of angels


1 Corinthians 12 describes the rainbow kaleidoscope of supernatural gifts that God's Holy Spirit sovereignly chooses to distribute - different ones to different Christians as He wills - just as the various parts of our bodies all have different functions & each & every one is a vital part

Note that it clearly puts the gifts in order of priority, with tongues & interpretaion at the bottom, words wisdom & knowledge at the top, & how 1 Cor 12:31 exhorts us to seek the higher gifts earnestly



2. They were then....

3. Acts 2 and other places.

4. Look at first verse - real simple and clear - they were for a sign given to unbelievers - and at that time the unbelievers were unbelieving Jews who rejected the kingdom age message and the messenger, Christ their Messiah.

Question - are you an unbelieving Jew during Acts who rejected the kingdom age message? If not then leave tongues alone - they are not for you or anybody else today for nobody else today fits the criteria. See #5 below.



1 Corinthians 1:7 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


7Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

1 Cor 1:7 - written after the Resurection & Ascension -clearly shows that the gifts will be needed, & given, until the Lord returns - to complete our Lord's Great Commission of Matt 28:18-20

& Mark 16:15-18 - which goes into more detail @ how to do that

Mark 16:15-18 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."


Emphasised by Mark 16:20 - "..& the Lord worked with them, & confirmed His Word by the signs that accompanied it

5. God is not dealing with Israel as a nation today.


He most certainly IS - as witness His miraculous fulfilments of His many precious promises to rebirth the nation, bring them back to the Promised Land from all nations, defeat all subsequent enemy attacks, make the desert blossom as a rose, rebuild the ancient ruins & restore the wastelands

& even that Israel fills the world with her fruit

See just Ezekiel 36 & Jeremiah 31:31-40 & Isaiah 40-45

New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



Ezekiel 36
A Prophecy to the Mountains of Israel
1 "Son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel and say, 'O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD.
2 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: The enemy said of you, "Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession." '
3 Therefore prophesy and say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because they ravaged and hounded you from every side so that you became the possession of the rest of the nations and the object of people's malicious talk and slander,
4 therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign LORD : This is what the Sovereign LORD says to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys, to the desolate ruins and the deserted towns that have been plundered and ridiculed by the rest of the nations around you-

5 this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder its pastureland.'
6 Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel and say to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I speak in my jealous wrath because you have suffered the scorn of the nations.
7 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I swear with uplifted hand that the nations around you will also suffer scorn.
8 " 'But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home.
9 I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown,
10 and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.
11 I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
12 I will cause people, my people Israel, to walk upon you. They will possess you, and you will be their inheritance; you will never again deprive them of their children.

13 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because people say to you, "You devour men and deprive your nation of its children,"
14 therefore you will no longer devour men or make your nation childless, declares the Sovereign LORD.
15 No longer will I make you hear the taunts of the nations, and no longer will you suffer the scorn of the peoples or cause your nation to fall, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

16 Again the word of the LORD came to me:

17 "Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman's monthly uncleanness in my sight.
18 So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols.
19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions.

20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the LORD's people, and yet they had to leave his land.' 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

22 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.
23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.

24 " 'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

28 You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you.
30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.

31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel!

33 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.

34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35 They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited."

36 Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the LORD have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.'

37 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to the plea of the house of Israel and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep,
38 as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."


Jeremiah 31:31-40 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [a] them, "
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

35 This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roarâ€â€
the LORD Almighty is his name:

36 "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,"
declares the LORD,
"will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me."

37 This is what the LORD says:
"Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,"
declares the LORD.

38 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah.
40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the LORD. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished."


The nations will be called to account when Messiah returns - "You have divided MY land!"


God is not racist

The Bible makes it clear that He chose the Jews precisely because they are so obstinate, stubborn & stiff-necked, & even says, "It is not for your sake, O Israel, that I will do these things, but to vindicate My great & holy name which you have profaned among the nations

"Then will all nations know that the Lord alone is God..& will not share His glory with idols"


Now - this issue is real simple unless...unless...you cannot tell the difference of how God deals with Israel during Acts (transitional book) and how God deals with the body of Christ today.



Romans 9-11 clearly shows God's eternal purpose to bring the Jews back to Himself as well as to His Holy Land, which He promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & all Jews as an everlasting possession

Ezekiel 36:33 - 37:14 & Zechariah 12:10-13:2 both most clearly promise spiritual restoration

There are many Messianic Assemblies in Israel & worldwide today

God will even fulfil His firm pledge to bring ALL Jews back to Israel

Operation Exodus seeks to help do this

& God promises to bless all who bless Israel & curse all who curse Israel

& to prosper those who love Jerusalem & pray for her peace

Soon, God will demolish the blasphemous abomination Dome of the Rock mosque, whose inscription quotes Koran's false denials of Jesus as God the Son in the Trinity

& the Temple will be rebuilt, as when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives - as promised in Zechariah 14 & Acts 1 - after He slaughters the world's armies, under Antichrist, for daring to invade His Holy Land & attack His Holy City - He will re-enter Jerusalem thru the East Gate of the Temple, per Zechariah 14 - to rule all Earth from Zion, with a rod of iron

See also Joel 3 & Revelation 16-19 @ Armageddon

& Revelation 21-22 @ the New Jerusalem in much physical detail, inc the Tree of Life yielding a different crop each month

& no more pain, hunger, disease, death or mourning: only joy

Isaiah 65:18-66:24 too

Must go!

God bless[/quote]

Must go


God bless!

Ian

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I believe that I know what they are not ...but, I wonder if someone who claims to 'speak in tongues' would tell me:

5. How can one determine 'the fake' from 'the genuine' when they sound the same?

Yes, isn't this the most obvious question on the subject which no one ever seems to ask? Good for you, comrade Sputnick. The one post that responded to #5 gave a totally subjective (i.e. "worthless") answer - that we can tell they're fake if the "anointing" leaves. (must we ask the obvious - how do you know when the anointing leaves? On and on it goes... :roll: )

Here's a common sense analysis...

Tongues are supposedly a supernatural manifestation, therefore solid, incontravertible EVIDENCE should be required to validate it. Evidence like identifying the tongues as real languages, that the speaker did not know beforehand. I was involved in pentecostal/charismatic circles for years and my opinion, based on experience, is that this manifestation is either consciously faked or psychologically induced.

Unfortunately, "common sense" is frowned upon in these circles.

 

[AVBunyan]

I'm not very good at PC techno, so I'll reply in bold between lines, OK? Must go God bless! Ian

All the above post (which I do appreciate the time you put into it) and you still can't get I Cor. 14:22 and I Cor. 1:22?

One more time with feeling:

"Now - this issue is real simple unless...unless...you cannot tell the difference of how God deals with Israel as a natiion during Acts (transitional book) and how God deals with the body of Christ today. "

You have to decide whether you are a saint in the body of Christ today or a Jew trying to get into the kingdom.

God bless

 

[Imagican]

'comrade Sputnik', that was pretty good Brad.

 

[Free]

"Now - this issue is real simple unless...unless...you cannot tell the difference of how God deals with Israel as a natiion during Acts (transitional book) and how God deals with the body of Christ today. "

You have to decide whether you are a saint in the body of Christ today or a Jew trying to get into the kingdom.

Firstly, Acts is not a "transitional book". It is a book about the Acts of the Apostles, beginning after Christ's ascension and proceeding for many years. In fact, certain issues addressed throughout Acts can be found in the letters of Paul. You call Acts a "transitional book" merely to relegate things to the past that you have no understanding of so you don't have to deal with it now. Secondly, you seem to have failed to notice that Paul never mentions that the tongues in the Corinth Church were false. Thirdly, the Church at Corinth was of the Body of Christ.

Your pneumatology is obviously deprived and therefore you should form no solid opinion on things you don't understand.

No answer given will satisfy those who don't believe.

 

[lecoop]

There is really only one way to tell if tongues are from God or from the devil. Did you get that? Only one way. The only way is if God Himself tells you, either by His voice of by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit. Why is this? Because God Himself is the only one that knows if the Holy Spirit is the one giving the utterance. There is no other way to tell. Of course we can guess, but I thought you wanted to know for sure.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

"Now - this issue is real simple unless...unless...you cannot tell the difference of how God deals with Israel as a natiion during Acts (transitional book) and how God deals with the body of Christ today. "

You have to decide whether you are a saint in the body of Christ today or a Jew trying to get into the kingdom.

Firstly, Acts is not a "transitional book". It is a book about the Acts of the Apostles, beginning after Christ's ascension and proceeding for many years. In fact, certain issues addressed throughout Acts can be found in the letters of Paul. You call Acts a "transitional book" merely to relegate things to the past that you have no understanding of so you don't have to deal with it now. Secondly, you seem to have failed to notice that Paul never mentions that the tongues in the Corinth Church were false. Thirdly, the Church at Corinth was of the Body of Christ.

Your pneumatology is obviously deprived and therefore you should form no solid opinion on things you don't understand.

No answer given will satisfy those who don't believe.

Free, I am so glad that you said this about the book of Acts. Some call it a transitional book so they feel justified in not following the doctrines in it! The book of Acts is scripture and is good for doctrine, just as is any other book!

 

[BradtheImpaler]

There is really only one way to tell if tongues are from God or from the devil

So tongues have to be either from God or the devil? First you have to prove it is a genuine supernatural manifestation to even consider those possibilities. Have you proven this or is there a lot of assumption going on with you?

Did you get that? Only one way

If you would find out whether tongues are truly supernatural you wouldn't have the problem of deciding whether they are from God or Satan.

The only way is if God Himself tells you, either by His voice of by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit. Why is this? Because God Himself is the only one that knows if the Holy Spirit is the one giving the utterance. There is no other way to tell. Of course we can guess, but I thought you wanted to know for sure

No, that's not a way to find out. One person will say God told him it's true and another will say God told him it isn't. So how do we "know for sure"?

 

[lecoop]

There is really only one way to tell if tongues are from God or from the devil

So tongues have to be either from God or the devil? First you have to prove it is a genuine supernatural manifestation to even consider those possibilities. Have you proven this or is there a lot of assumption going on with you?

I have to prove nothing. I don't have to defend either God or the bible. Tongues are there for anyone to read about; to believe or not to believe. Do you not believe that the Acts 2 experience was supernatural? I assume nothing, but I believe what God told us about tongues. Well, I do assume that you can read these scriptures as well as I.

Did you get that? Only one way

If you would find out whether tongues are truly supernatural you wouldn't have the problem of deciding whether they are from God or Satan.

If you understood what happened in Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19, you would not make such silly statements. Let me help you: when the HOly Spirit came, they spoke in tongues. Before the Holy Spirit came, they spoke in thier learned languages. Pretty simple, really.

[quote:db002]The only way is if God Himself tells you, either by His voice of by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit. Why is this? Because God Himself is the only one that knows if the Holy Spirit is the one giving the utterance. There is no other way to tell. Of course we can guess, but I thought you wanted to know for sure

No, that's not a way to find out. One person will say God told him it's true and another will say God told him it isn't. So how do we "know for sure"?

You have to be close enough to God to understand the "inward witness" of the Holy Spirit by yourself! In other words, you cannot go by what someone else tells you - you have to find out yourself. However, there are clues as to who is the author of tongues. Did you ever notice in Acts 10 and Acts 19 what accompanied tongues? It says "then magnified God" and "prophesied." Therefore, if you hear people praying in tongues, see who gets the glory for it. If they magnify God, then you have a very good reason to believe it is from God. Of course, I don't mean that you interpret the tongues, but if they say something in English, see if it glorifies God.

Coop



[/quote:db002]

 

[AVBunyan]

1. Firstly, Acts is not a "transitional book".
2. You call Acts a "transitional book" merely to relegate things to the past that you have no understanding of so you don't have to deal with it now.
3. Secondly, you seem to have failed to notice that Paul never mentions that the tongues in the Corinth Church were false.

1. Oh, I can understand why can't see that. I can understand why you will never see that.

2. You are a funny guy Free :-?

3. Of course - Corinthians is an Acts book - God was still dealing with Israel until Acts 28 (see #1) - and he rebuked the most carnal and fleshly church for the improper use of the tongues.

Just lump it all together and come up with "christian goulash" :-?

One more time - why are tongues said to be for unbelievers when you folks fill your churches with "tongues"? Is it because most of those folks in tongue-speaking churches are unbelievers?

I believe most of them to be lost - they missed justification for they think they can lose it.

 

[Solo]

If those speaking in tongues are proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ at the time, and are interpreted correctly, then they are real; If they bring another gospel or do not bring the gospel of Jesus Christ only, it is counterfeit.

If everyone present speaks the same language, it is counterfeit.

 

[lecoop]

1. Firstly, Acts is not a "transitional book".
2. You call Acts a "transitional book" merely to relegate things to the past that you have no understanding of so you don't have to deal with it now.
3. Secondly, you seem to have failed to notice that Paul never mentions that the tongues in the Corinth Church were false.

1. Oh, I can understand why can't see that. I can understand why you will never see that.

2. You are a funny guy Free :-?

3. Of course - Corinthians is an Acts book - God was still dealing with Israel until Acts 28 (see #1) - and he rebuked the most carnal and fleshly church for the improper use of the tongues.

Just lump it all together and come up with "christian goulash" :-?

One more time - why are tongues said to be for unbelievers when you folks fill your churches with "tongues"? Is it because most of those folks in tongue-speaking churches are unbelievers?

I believe most of them to be lost - they missed justification for they think they can lose it.

Not lost - but "full" gospel! Here's the thing, AVBunyan: tongues in Acts were an initial sign of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Jesus commanded the disciples - not suggested, but commanded them to wait in Jerusalem until they had received this baptism with the Holy Spirit. Since we are also disciples of Jesus, this command is to us as much as it is to them. Therefore, you should desire it as much as God wants you to have it. Now, why was this baptism so important that Jesus did not want them to leave home without it? Simple! The baptism with the HS is the anointing with which we minister. You need it and I need it. The whole church needs it.

A close study of the tongues associated with this baptism with the HS, will show that tongues manifests itself in three ways:

1. It is first and formost a prayer language - given to us to inhance our prayer life. Paul said, "what is it then? I will pray with the spirit," meaning praying in tongues, and "I will pray with my understanding," meaning praying in your learned langauge. Just a note here: no one can fulfill this verse unless they speak in tongues. If you have no desire to speak in tongues, then just tear this verse out. Of course this aspect of tongues is not meant for unbelievers. That is why it is very justified to pray in tongues at church. Prayer is a good thing at church.

2. Tongues are used in a meeting to give a message in tongues, meant to be interpreted. This is the manifestation of tongues that Paul says is a sign for unbelievers.

3. Tongues are occasionly heard by others in their own language! It is an added miracle. I know of cases where this has happened recently. Many people believe that in Acts two, the apostles were speaking in these other languages. This is simply not the case. Luke wrote distinctly that they heard in these languages. The apostles were merely speaking in tongues, where the mind is unfruitful, and they were speaking to God, for no man understands. God just added the miracle of the listeners hearing in their own language.

Why then, would you ask about false tongues? I personally have never heard "false" tongues. These would be tongues coming from another source than the Holy Spirit. Here is how tongues work: the holy spirit gives the utterance, to the human spirit. The human spirit speaks from the mouth, but not through the mind, as Paul said, the mind is unfruitful. What really happens is that we have the ability to connect our spirit to our mouth and allow our spirit man to speak. When our spirit is speaking, this is not routed through our brain, and we don't know what we are saying until after we say it and our ears hear it. This is why Paul said that the mind is unfruitful.

Our spirit man can speak in our learned language, in which case we call prophecy, or our spirit man can speak the tongues as the HS gives the utterance. In this case, we would be speaking in tongues, and speaking to God, and no man would understand. Therefore, as Paul says, forbid not to speak in tongues! Desire spiritural gifts, but above all, desire the baptism with the Holy Spirit, for this is the doorway to the gifts of the Spirit.

Coop

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If those speaking in tongues are proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ at the time, and are interpreted correctly, then they are real; If they bring another gospel or do not bring the gospel of Jesus Christ only, it is counterfeit

How do you know if they are interpreted correctly?

 

[Solo]

If those speaking in tongues are proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ at the time, and are interpreted correctly, then they are real; If they bring another gospel or do not bring the gospel of Jesus Christ only, it is counterfeit

How do you know if they are interpreted correctly?

It will align with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Anything apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ is counterfeit.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:26-33

 

[Free]

1. Firstly, Acts is not a "transitional book".
2. You call Acts a "transitional book" merely to relegate things to the past that you have no understanding of so you don't have to deal with it now.
3. Secondly, you seem to have failed to notice that Paul never mentions that the tongues in the Corinth Church were false.

1. Oh, I can understand why can't see that. I can understand why you will never see that.

Likewise.

2. You are a funny guy Free :-?

But still true, yes?

3. Of course - Corinthians is an Acts book - God was still dealing with Israel until Acts 28 (see #1)

When you don't have an answer, just relegate it all to "God was still dealing with Israel". Apparently God has completely given up on Jews. :-?

Are all Jews saved AV? Does any Jew still have a chance? Is God still dealing with Israel?

and he rebuked the most carnal and fleshly church for the improper use of the tongues.

Another tacitc similar to relegating everything to a "transitional period". Blame it all on the supposedly "most carnal and fleshly church". You do that while you ignore Paul's statement that he speaks in tongues more than all of those at Corinth, and that he would rather speak five intelligable tongues in Church than ten thousand in tongues.

Just lump it all together and come up with "christian goulash" :-?

It's the Bible AV, I don't just pick out the parts I like like some people tend to do.

One more time - why are tongues said to be for unbelievers when you folks fill your churches with "tongues"? Is it because most of those folks in tongue-speaking churches are unbelievers?

Maybe it's because we actually let unbelievers in our churches....And don't twist Scripture. Tongues are a sign for unbelievers, not spoken by unbelievers. I know what you are implying and I strongly suggest you cut the garbage.

I believe most of them to be lost - they missed justification for they think they can lose it.

Am I to understand that you think people who believe in tongues are unsaved? Is that what you are getting at? Just how do you think one is saved AV? If they believe only what you do?

You still left some of my post unanswered. You asked: "You have to decide whether you are a saint in the body of Christ today or a Jew trying to get into the kingdom."

I replied: "the Church at Corinth was of the Body of Christ."

Do you agree with my statement or not?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I have to prove nothing. I don't have to defend either God or the bible. Tongues are there for anyone to read about; to believe or not to believe. Do you not believe that the Acts 2 experience was supernatural? I assume nothing, but I believe what God told us about tongues. Well, I do assume that you can read these scriptures as well as I.

I thought we were talking about how do you know if what passes for tongues TODAY is the real thing, not about what the bible says happened 2000 years ago?

If you understood what happened in Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19, you would not make such silly statements. Let me help you: when the HOly Spirit came, they spoke in tongues. Before the Holy Spirit came, they spoke in thier learned languages. Pretty simple, really.

Yes, I understand the story - why can't you understand the point at hand?

Let's try it again in other words...

Do you see/hear what happened in Acts being duplicated today, or do you hear tongues speakers babbling away in church in what can't even be proven to be authentic languages?

You have to be close enough to God to understand the "inward witness" of the Holy Spirit by yourself! In other words, you cannot go by what someone else tells you - you have to find out yourself

I DID find out for myself, hopefully you will too.

However, there are clues as to who is the author of tongues. Did you ever notice in Acts 10 and Acts 19 what accompanied tongues? It says "then magnified God" and "prophesied." Therefore, if you hear people praying in tongues, see who gets the glory for it. If they magnify God, then you have a very good reason to believe it is from God. Of course, I don't mean that you interpret the tongues, but if they say something in English, see if it glorifies God.

Oh, but the tongues HAVE to be interpreted if the hearers are to know that the speakers are "glorifying God" - that was the whole point of those incidents in Acts!!

Let's try AGAIN (3rd time's a charm?)...

If you don't know what the speakers are saying, how do you know they're -

1) speaking in a real language
2) speaking in a real language they did not know a few seconds before

and...

3) how do you know what they're saying is glorifying God?

If all these things are not verifiable, the (supposed) manifestation is MEANINGLESS.