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Justification

T

thessalonian

Guest
I beg the indulgence of the moderators for the length of this post. It expresses my view of justification and sanctification in a most eloquent way. I believe there is a huge lack of understanding of my beliefs and so I post it. Please read. It is from:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SPIRCATH.HTM#11

The Church's doctrine of justification is based upon the presupposition that man is not only called to a natural end, to the fulfillment of his natural being, to the development of his natural powers and aptitudes, but also beyond that, to a supernatural elevation of his being which entirely surpasses all created aptitudes and powers, to sonship with God, to participation in the divine life itself. Such is the central fact of the glad tidings of Christianity: "To as many as received him, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God" (Jn. i, 12). "Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God, and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. But we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him" (1 Jn. iii, 2). This likeness consists, according to the Second Epistle of St. Peter, in an enrichment by grace, in a fulfilling and permeation of our being by divine and holy forces. We shall be made "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter i, 4). We win a "share in His sanctity" (Hebr. xii, 10). Therefore man's end lies, not in mere humanity, but in a new sort of superhumanity, in an elevation and enhancement of his being, which essentially surpasses all created powers and raises him into an absolutely new sphere of existence and life, into the fullness of the life of God. God shows Himself most luminously as the absolute Personality, sufficient for Himself and independent of the world, in the fact that He reveals Himself personally to us, as one person to another. And He shows that He is absolute Goodness in the fact that He reveals Himself to us as our Friend, nay, as our Father, so that by the power of His love we become His sons and may cry "Abba, Father." Wherefore the Church, in her educative effort, cannot be contented with developing any mere humanity, or perfection of humanity. That is not the object of her work. On the contrary her ideal is to supernaturalize men, to make them like to God. It is of the essence of the Church's character that she should press on towards that which is better and pursue the best and highest that is to be found in heaven and on earth, that she should move in the unsearchable depths of the divine mystery and therefore love the heroic, the incomprehensible and inconceivable, the wide spaces of infinity. That which was uniquely realized in Christ when the Triune God united a human nature with His divine nature in the unity of His person, that mystery of the raising of man to God is constantly repeated by grace in the life of the individual Christian.

This raising of man to the most intimate communion of life and love with God cannot be effected by man himself. It can be merited by no human effort. It is the work of God alone. God gives Himself to those to whom He wills to give Himself, with the most gratuitous mercy and love. So it is the Church's doctrine that every movement of man towards God, every holy thought, every good resolution and every pure affection is initiated and supported by God's graceâ€â€the theologians speak here of "actual" grace; and further, that the definitive establishment of the new life in the soul, the state of direct communion of life and love with Godâ€â€which the theologians call "sanctifying" graceâ€â€is effected in the soul by God alone without human merit. We are made sons of God solely by the eternal love of God, by a mysterious operation of His power effected supernaturally.

The child of God, the saint, is therefore according to the Church's view essentially a creation of grace, a child of the eternal Love. And since it is the function of Christ and of Christianity to bring the love and grace of God to sense-bound man under the veil of visible and evident signs, therefore the first and chief duty of the Church's educative activity is the sacramental mediation of the grace of Christ. The seven sacraments are God's appointed means, whereby man shall ordinarily (ordinario modo) experience the action of the grace of Christ, the elevation of his being into the stream of God's life and love. This does not mean that extraordinary ways and activities of grace are excluded, as was shown in the last Chapter.

On the other handâ€â€and here is the chief distinction between the Catholic and the orthodox Lutheran conceptions of justificationâ€â€man is not purely passive under the action of grace like some lifeless stone or log. As the Church conceives original sin, the natural religious and moral endowment of man was not destroyed by that sin, so that as the Lutheran "Formula of Concord" expresses it "no spark of spiritual power was left him for the knowledge of truth and accomplishment of good." Man's religious and moral faculties are not impaired in their natural substance, but weakened in their operation, inasmuch as original sin deflects them from their supernatural course and gives them therefore a false direction. The effect of grace, as the upsurging of the eternal love within him, is to bring a man's faculties back again into their original course, and so to disengage them completely and set them free. Therefore grace is not merely compassionate mercy, nor is it like some brilliant cloak of gold thrown over the human corpse. On the contrary the Church conceives of it as a vital force, which awakens and summons the powers of man's soul, understanding, will and feeling, inspires them with a new love, with a new fear of God and His judgments, with a new yearning for transcendent holiness and infinite goodness. When grace thus works on the sinner, continually urging him on with its secret goad to the heights, it produces in man those spiritual acts of faith, fear and trust which are the preparation on the human side for justification. The justification itself which follows these acts is the sole work of God. In the sacrament of Baptism or Penance God answers the appeal of the penitent with His kiss of forgiving love: "I baptize thee, I absolve thee."

Butâ€â€and here we see again the special quality of the Catholic doctrine of justification, the dynamic character of the Church's conceptionâ€â€God does not merely forgive. At the same time as He forgives He sanctifies. So that justification is not a mere covering over of sin, a mere external imputation of the righteousness of Christ. It is the communication of a true inward righteousness, of a new love which remakes the whole man; it is sanctification. Justification and sanctification are not to be separated the one from the other, as though sanctification were merely a happy consequence of justification. On the contrary, God's justifying word of forgiveness is an omnipotent word which remakes the man, not only forgiving the penitent but conferring on him the supernatural life of grace; nay, forgiving him for the very reason that it implants in him the germ of this new life. The first effect of God's mercy in the penitent is the awakening of this new life, of this new love. Theologians call it the "infusion of love" (infusio caritatis), which produces a new sense of sonship, so that the man cries "Abba, Father." Therefore, according to Catholic doctrine, the grace of justification not only puts the man into a new relation with God, but also produces a new attitude. It creates a new heart and a new love.

This new heart, this new state of righteousness and holiness, is not produced fortuitously and in a magical manner. For the man is already inwardly ordinated to this life by his preparatory acts of faith, fear and love, acts supported by grace. His soul longeth for the Lord. It panteth for Him, like the hart for the fountains of water. And God answers its appeal, condescends to the soul and permeates it with His new love. Therefore the grace of justification has its psychological point of contact in the grace- produced preparatory acts. And it does not come from outside like some alien charm, but as the creator to His creature. For God, the primal creative force of all being, is within us. He is nearer to us than we to ourselves. He is the fundamental ground in which our innermost being is ontologically rooted. The new life rises from out of this divine source within us which yet is not ourselves. It sets free all the good powers of the soul. I obtain a new desire, a new strong and steadfast will; I am filled anew with God, I have divine charity. It is not of me, and yet it is wholly mine. For it comes from the divine basis which maintains and supports my being. Therefore the expression "infusion of charity" (infusio cantatis) means that the new love flows into me out of a primal source which is not my own self. But this primal source is not far from me, but within me, for it is at the basis of my being. The man who believes in the reality of God must believe also that this reality is the source of all power and all grace, and that therefore the new life comes not from himself but from God. That is the meaning of the expression "infusio." If a man denies its theological substance, then his theology is an unsatisfactory subjectivism. He does not attain to belief in the transcendental reality of God. He remains shut up in his own ego, and is ultimately bound to make his own ego the basis of all reality, as is done by idealistic monism.
 
It doesn't matter how many ways a person dresses up justification by works, or how he pleads about it with the utmost sincerity, it is still an erroneous doctrine, and will lead all who follow it to their doom. Remember the point of James in James 2:17, is that a person must ensure that his faith is authentic, so that it produces the tell tale sign of naturally produced good works. (You can read here for more on the subject.) James 2:17 is not about pursuing good works directly.
 
PDoug said:
It doesn't matter how many ways a person dresses up justification by works, or how he pleads about it with the utmost sincerity, it is still an erroneous doctrine, and will lead all who follow it to their doom. Remember the point of James in James 2:17, is that a person must ensure that his faith is authentic, so that it produces the tell tale sign of naturally produced good works. (You can read here for more on the subject.) James 2:17 is not about pursuing good works directly.

Evidently you didn't undertand the post. Nor do you understand Matt 25 or Romans 2:4-8 among other verses. This is not a dressing up of salvation by works but an acknowledgement of eph 3:20-21.

Yet the good that God does through us does not happen on autopilot as your post implies. We must strive to do good.


1Cor.14
[12] So with yourselves; since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.


1Tim.4
[10] For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Heb.4
[11] Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, that no one fall by the same sort of disobedience.

Heb.12
[14] Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

This we do by the grace of God.

Blessings
 
Honestly, the counterfeiter's best work is that which is almost,.... and I say it again,.... almost,.... identical to the real thing.

Knowing this,... oh, and how glad I am that I do know this truth about the counterfeiter and his counterfeit work,... I read what was being said with a discerning eye.

And what exactly is a dscerning eye, where this sort of matter is concerned?

Scripture tells us that the discernment can be made by seeing the heart of the matter, seeing the very core of the matter, its essential center,... the essence of its being.

This is how we can discern anything, and this is how we can discern the reality within the presented speaking.


That said, speaking is either truth or lie. It is either God expressed or Satan expressed.

Following this line, to clearly discern speaking what is needed is an understanding of God and an understanding of Satan; meaning, to discern things we need to know the essence of God and the essence of Satan.

And what is the essence of God?

God is love and light, God is life.

And the essence of Satan?

Satan is the opposite, he is hate and darkness, Satan is death.


So saints, read the presentation with the above view, look for love, light, and life, and look for hate, darkness, and death.

And from this you will be able to discern what is being presented.


In love,
cj
 
Cj,

You discern with the preconcieved Gospel of easybelievism.
 
Thessalonian said:
Cj,

You discern with the preconcieved Gospel of easybelievism.

And you fail to respect Vic's request to "Can it!"


:wink:


In love,
cj
 
cj said:
Thessalonian said:
Cj,

You discern with the preconcieved Gospel of easybelievism.

And you fail to respect Vic's request to "Can it!"


:wink:


In love,
cj

That was not a cut but stark reality my friend whom I pray for.

blessings
 
cj said:
Thessalonian said:
Cj,

You discern with the preconcieved Gospel of easybelievism.

And you fail to respect Vic's request to "Can it!"


:wink:


In love,
cj

By the way, isn't your posting in such a manner without the authority of a moderator, engaging in the same thing you are accusing me of? I do believe that such a post should be made with the authority of a moderator. Perhaps you should have contacted him offline rather than confront me personally in public.

Blessings
 
Thessalonian said:
That was not a cut but stark reality my friend whom I pray for.

Friend,.... whom prays for me.... reality is just Christ, or so the bible says.

What you said above was neither Christ nor was it said in Christ, as having experienced my own walk with the Lord (something that you have not done for me) it is foolishness for you to suggest that my perception of things is based on what you define as "easybelievism".

And thankfully, the Lord has over the years surrounded me with good saints, steeped in the word of God, who have witnessed and attested to the depth of my walk.

I won't say where you drew your comment from, but I will say it was not from God.


In love,
cj
 
Lyric's Dad said:
Thessalonian said:
Cj,

You discern with the preconcieved Gospel of easybelievism.
LOL!!

Amen!

Your comment is understandable LD, for even as the angels who had seen God followed Lucifer, who is man to not be lead astray into saying "Amen" to foolishness.


In love,
cj
 
Thessalonian said:
By the way, isn't your posting in such a manner without the authority of a moderator, engaging in the same thing you are accusing me of? I do believe that such a post should be made with the authority of a moderator. Perhaps you should have contacted him offline rather than confront me personally in public.

You mean in the manner in which you are now confronting me?

Thess,... I said nothing in public that was not said by a moderator in public.

I believe you to be a mature person and thus that I can speak with you in the way of a reminder regarding pettiness.


On another note, try to understand that my first post is actually very much inline with the heading of this board. Justification is a crucial matter regarding the truth of the salvation of man, and anything slightly off, even a little slightly off, can result in much heartache and pain.

In my reading of what you presented I saw two things almost immediately that should not be a part of the consideration of justification.

These things were very cunningly and craftily inserted into the presentation, and rather than speak about the content I felt lead to use the opportunity to bring the matter of discernment into the picture.

This is why I said what I said.

It would not be hard for me to pick apart what you presented; the first place I'd start is on its complexity.

Objective, positional justification is simply this.... "Justification is God's action whereby He approves people according to His standard of righteousness. God can do this on the basis of the redemption of Christ.  Since Christ has paid the price for our sins and in His redemption has fulfilled all God's requirements on us, God, because He is just, must justify us freely. Such justification is by the grace of God, not by our works."


Whereas,.... "Subjective, dispositional justification is carried out by the resurrection of Christ. Adequate, living justification is God's deeper work in calling fallen people out of everything other than God and bringing them back to Himself, so that they place their full trust in Him rather than in themselves. In Gen. 15 Abraham's being justified by God was not related to sin; rather, it was for the gaining of a seed to produce a kingdom that will inherit the world (v. 13)."


"God's justification is not a reward (wages) for our good works (labor); it is grace freely given to us through Christ's redemption. If God's justification were based on our good works, or if it required our good works, then it would be the wages we earn for our good works; that is, it would be something owed to us, not something freely given by God. Since God's justification is reckoned according to His grace, it is no longer out of works; otherwise, grace is no longer grace (11:6). Our works can by no means replace God's grace; God's grace must be absolute."


Here we have three short paragraphs that fully explain justification in a clear and simply way; a way that even the most simple among us can understand.

In comparison, what you presented is not simple, and was specifically designed to be just that, not simple.

This fact alone begs the question, "Why so complicated?"



In love,
cj
 
Your response makes it clear that you are unable to grasp the theology contained in the initial post. It is quite clear to any but the simplest of people that the statement says that our salvation is not based on OUR works but rather on God working in us and through us. That's not hard to understand and it actually is a simple summation of the whole theology of justification. So it seems that I have put it in a simpler form than you. On the basis on which you judge these things my view is the correct one. It is anyway of course. Nowhere in the statement does it say that we are saved based on ANY merrit of our own. You twist as usual.
 
by the way cj, if brevity were the condition for truth, God used 1500 pages to explain his saving truths to us, so I guess you have come up with a better way of stating it than he it seems. Or so you apparently think.
 
So then, let's begin to unravel the folly...

Thessalonian said:
The Church's doctrine...

Point one,... there is but one Church, the Church of Christ. And this Church is itself owned and thus owns nothing, not even doctrine.

In the above beginning, "The Church's doctrine", there can be found the lie which is presented with the purpose of dividing rather than building up.

Thus in the very first few words we can find the hand of God's enemy at work.


Shall I continue?



In love,
cj
 
cj said:
So then, let's begin to unravel the folly...

Thessalonian said:
The Church's doctrine...

Point one,... there is but one Church, the Church of Christ. And this Church is itself owned and thus owns nothing, not even doctrine.

In the above beginning, "The Church's doctrine", there can be found the lie which is presented with the purpose of dividing rather than building up.

Thus in the very first few words we can find the hand of God's enemy at work.


Shall I continue?



In love,
cj

Your kidding right? What is this "I can prove that post wrong with 0 verses". I don't see any of your words in the Bible cj. Nor does the Catholic Church claim the doctrines it teaches are her own but Christ's. So your point is pointless and yes, God's eneny is at work. Please do continue to strive even though we are told the gates of hell shall not prevail against that one Church. Keep it up friend. Your making a fool of yourself with such silliness.
 
This Thread Is About Roman Catholic Propaganda At Best

Hi Thessalonian:

Thessalonian >> I beg the indulgence of the moderators for the length of this post. It expresses my view of justification and sanctification in a most eloquent way. I believe there is a huge lack of understanding of my beliefs and so I post it. Please read. It is from:

Plastering miles of church dogma to this Board should be forbidden, as you can just as easily provide everyone a link if you cannot manage to write your own Opening Post on this topic. The entire work does not contain enough Scriptural support to prop up a case for anything. Karl Adam makes references to the “First Epistle of St. Clement†AD Cor. Xliv, 3†like that means something. Everything on that website from top to bottom is utterly useless for anything but forwarding RC propaganda that will put your eye out if not careful. I would like to comment on the man’s use of Scripture, but there is not enough here to fill a woman’s thimble. Clement indeed . . . That is funny . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral
 
Thessalonian said:
.... the Catholic Church claim the doctrines it teaches are her own but Christ's.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that the Roman Catholic institution claims the doctrines it teaches are Christ's.

Would a counterfeiter not make the same claim regarding his counterfeit?


Thess, the problem is, that while the RC institutions claim their folly doctrine to be Christ's, Christ is just as absolutely declaring their doctrine is not His.


Thessalonian said:
So your point is pointless and yes, God's eneny is at work. Please do continue to strive even though we are told the gates of hell shall not prevail against that one Church. Keep it up friend. Your making a fool of yourself with such silliness.

Read it again Thess,... its really clear.

This is a RC document written for RC followers to read.

Understanding this, read how it introduces the topic....

"The Church's doctrine..."

From this there is only one conclusion a RC follower will draw, what is being said is that "our" doctrine, as opposed to the doctrines of "others"... is...

And this is proven further into the presentation as the division of the body is clear and purposefully carried out.



You must think people here on these boards are fools Thess, that we are unable to understand context and sentence formation. That we are unable to grasp the underlying message.


Again I ask,... shall I continue to reveal the folly of what you presented?



In love,
cj
 
Re: This Thread Is About Roman Catholic Propaganda At Best

Terral said:
.... Plastering miles of church dogma to this Board should be forbidden,...

Not in all cases Terral, for it is invigorating to excercise the spirit in contending for truth. And it is a good pattern to set for younger saints.

Stomping Satan has its place for sure,.... this being wherever he seeks to raise it up.


In love,
cj
 
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