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jw's say born again is not a command?

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jasoncran said:
this is a long article please read it all before commenting http://www.watchtower.org/e/20090401/article_01.htm

i just glanced at it myself

oy vey, what a whopper this topic will be.
Click to expand...

Are they serious? xD It can't be made more clear than this:

‘Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Click to expand...

Those words came from our Lord and Savior. He obviously knows what He's talking about since He was the one who came here to earth to establish the kingdom in the first place. So, if you consider yourself to be a true Christian, and you have not been "born again", then I'm sorry, but you need to go and accept Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior and start living the way that Jesus wants you to. All this comes with the Christian territory, or it's supposed to.
 
the jw's have twisted the word to carefully mean that only the 144000 will be born again and enter into heaven, i will need help looking at the greek to stomp that.
they also have covered those that are on the earth and arent of 144,000.

wow. talk about taking these out of context.
 
It is quite possible and even likely that Jesus was not issuing a command to be born again and just stating a fact. However, where the JWs are wrong is that only a certain few are born again and adopted as sons.
 
still the fact is that one must be born agian to get into heaven, so whether a command or a statement one must be born agian.
 
The JW's twist the truth to suit themselves. We are told by Jesus in John 3:7, "Ye must be born again." If that's not a command, then what is it? That command was not just to Nicodemus, to whom He was talking.
 
they look at the greek, for that verse, but i would like to see it myself, and either way we need to be born again to get to heaven anyway.
 
If only the 144,000 JW are to be accepted in heaven, what about the other JW who aren't in-listed in those numbers? Are they going to hell?
 
Carpathian said:
If only the 144,000 JW are to be accepted in heaven, what about the other JW who aren't in-listed in those numbers? Are they going to hell?
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did you read the link, i ask all to read that link, so that we can get their own words and thoughts on this not me telling you what they say.

i will however do another thread on 144000.Those that aren't of the elect, will be resurrected to rebuild the earth after armegedon if i recall this correctly.
 
Jon-Marc said:
The JW's twist the truth to suit themselves. We are told by Jesus in John 3:7, "Ye must be born again." If that's not a command, then what is it? That command was not just to Nicodemus, to whom He was talking.
Click to expand...

Hi Jon Marc, welcome back! :)

That's like saying, "I command you to save yourself".... Being born again is a gift from God, it's nothing we can earn or do.

Now then, we are commanded in Deut 6:5 (These words that I command you today shall be upon your heart) to love the Lord our God with all our heart, and with all our soul and with all our streangth Deut 6:4
 
jasoncran said:
the jw's have twisted the word to carefully mean that only the 144000 will be born again and enter into heaven, i will need help looking at the greek to stomp that.
they also have covered those that are on the earth and arent of 144,000.

wow. talk about taking these out of context.
Click to expand...

Jason, I can read greek, but have to work at it. I studied the language for 3 years, but that was long ago, and I am a little rusty. I have kept up and used the language but need a refresher course.

The problem here is that I have no idea what you are talking about. What verse and what phrase are you talking about? What is the greek issue. I read the article. The article has a degree of truth in it in that the voice of the verb "???????" is a aorist passive indicitive, and not imperative. However, the imperative is not the only hortatory grammatical structures in greek. You can have hortatory subjunctives, but the verb is indicative. I see no grammatical issues there.

Where they do have serious problems is when they identify the 144k with those who are born again. The 144k are not related to this context, they are not mentioned in any way. That part seems an absurd leap into fiction. This is not the only distortion. They misuse or even abuse the term "Kingdom of God." The "Kingdom of God" and the "Kingdom of Heaven" has to do with repentance (Mt 3:2). All who repent are admitted into the Kingdom. If you look at the kingdom parables in scripture, you will find many illustrations of how those in the kingdom are all saved. Those not admitted to the kingdom are burnt or something like that. Those admitted to the kingdom are not an elite group of rulers, but all who repent.

There is also error in what they say about "water" in the passage. Rather then refer to water baptism I think it refers to regeneration. I forget the reference off the top of my head. I think somewhere in Titus there is a reference to the washing of regeneration.

Is there some specific point you wish to discuss?
 
you hit it pretty well as that is the point of the jw's belief on salvation. i will open one thread up on the 144,000 soon
 
What I don't like about there website is you cannot contact them except to receive a visit.

I was once told by a JW that they would change there doctrine if proven wrong, how can you argue them if they don't allow you to contact them?
 
i once was a jw. I recently asked one about can a jw be a cop. His reply was yes, but he cant read the bible before the congregation and a few other things.

I dont miss that legalism.
 
I told some JW's that came by my house the second time that I had a problem with their doctrine about hell, and the importance of being born-again. These people told me that the gifts of the Holy Spirit were done away with 2000 years ago. I said that sounds really dumb because I have heard prophecies, interpretations of tongues, and tongues, as I am born-again and speak in tongues. This just astounded them I think. Many in my church have talked with these poor deluded people, but glory to God, they have had two pastors, me, and a worship leader from our church give true testimony as true witnesses of God. Praise the Lord. We can declare that we have not forsaken the land:

Jeremiah 9:19 For a voice of wailing is heard out of Zion, How are we spoiled! we are greatly confounded, because we have forsaken the land, because our dwellings have cast us out.
 
Jehovah Witnesses do not worship Jesus Christ. That's my focus when talking I to them. They bring their own rabbit holes to evade the issue and I make sure they take their rabbit holes with them when they leave.
They clog the vacuum.
 
Sorry, I could only make it to page 3 then I could not take the nonsense anymore. WOW its amazing how they start twisting things to suit their own path. :crazy
 
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