Keeping The Commandments Is Legalism

[JudaicChristian]

If the Gentiles who do not have the written laws are keeping the laws, then the laws are written in their hearts. Therfore they are keeping the laws. And God's grace is given to the Gentile for their faith.

Yes. Agreed. And of course:

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What tripped me up was...
"If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation."

The Jews nor the gentiles could "keep" the law. Therefore the need for Christ to fulfill the law and present himself as the Lamb of God.

I think the point is that keeping the law, whether written in the heart or written on stone, will not justify...only faith will. No one can keep the whole law...written on the heart or written on stone. If they sin in even one point they are guilty of all. It's faith that justifies...not the keeping of any law.

exactly

I would say that sums it up. The laws are written in the their hearts.

• Jeremiah 31:31. "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
  "when I will make a new covenant
  with the house of Israel
  and with the house of Judah.
  
  32 It will not be like the covenant
  I made with their forefathers
  when I took them by the hand
  to lead them out of Egypt,
  because they broke my covenant,
  though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
  declares the LORD.
  
  33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
  after that time," declares the LORD.
  "I will put my law in their minds
  and write it on their hearts.
  I will be their God,
  and they will be my people.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Re:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


This list says that all of the people who commit these things without turning from them will have a part in the lake of fire. I don't see any other provision for those who have accepted Jesus Christ's invitation and then walked straightaway back into evil practices with no fight at all.


M't:22:12: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
M't:22:13: Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
M't:22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[glorydaz]

Re:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


This list says that all of the people who commit these things without turning from them will have a part in the lake of fire. I don't see any other provision for those who have accepted Jesus Christ's invitation and then walked straightaway back into evil practices with no fight at all.


M't:22:12: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
M't:22:13: Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
M't:22:14: For many are called, but few are chosen.

The guest wasn't wearing the wedding garment....the guest was not a believer.

Accepting the invitation or showing up at the wedding does not mean a person has been washed in the blood. Those who have been washed have put on the righteousness of Christ.

Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Elijah674]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah

You're full of it....and I don't mean the Holy Spirit, either.

 

[Elijah674]

If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation.

That's not what Paul is saying.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The laws the gentiles followed that agreed with the laws of Moses such as honoring parents or condemning adultery for example still condemned them for their laws functioned for them as the Mosaic laws did for the Jews.

Hi, 'i' can't agree with that. The chapter was for the Jew who made their boast that they were the top dog! Inspiration told us otherwise, that the WHOLE Covenant Law was found by them (the Gentile) by the Lord's created NATURE. Rom. 2:28-29 as seen in Heb. 10:15-16.

+ we are not as important as most of us think, perhaps??

--Elijah

 

[Geo]

"'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments" - that's a good emphasis and distinction, Elijah

2 Chronicles 24:20  And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.

Isaiah 30:15  For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Jeremiah 15:19  Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you

1 John 3:24  And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Acts 5:32  And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

[glorydaz]

Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[Elijah674]

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.[/quote]

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah[/quote]

You're full of it....and I don't mean the Holy Spirit, either. [/quote]

Perhaps repenting is legalism also, seeing that some teach that the law is FINISHED!

And You just made your case! Eccl. 12:13-14. But there still might be time to repent?? Titus 3:9-11
--Elijah

PS: So what one is saying then, is that every time that you sin knowingly you are executing Christ afresh & putting Him to AN OPEN SHAME! Heb. 6:6 GOD/FORBID!

 

[Elijah674]

In Acts 5:1-11 we see the Day of Pentacost several chapters fullfilled, and the Holy Spirit still being sinned against. And what LAW WAS BEING SINNED AGAINST! 1 John 3:4 'Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth [ALSO THE LAW] for [SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW]'. FINISHED??? Naw, just these two LIARS were finished!

And the True contrast?? Rev. 12:17

--Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah

You're full of it....and I don't mean the Holy Spirit, either.

Perhaps repenting is legalism also, seeing that some teach that the law is FINISHED!

And You just made your case! Eccl. 12:13-14. But there still might be time to repent?? Titus 3:9-11
--Elijah

PS: So what one is saying then, is that every time that you sin knowingly you are executing Christ afresh & putting Him to AN OPEN SHAME! Heb. 6:6 GOD/FORBID!

You seem content to deny the scripture...always going back to the Old Testament but ignoring the New. Many people prefer to remain under the schoolmaster....those who come by faith have moved on to become sons of God. We are now under grace. The righteousness of the law is now in us through the power of the indwelling Spirit.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The reason sin has no dominion over the saints is because the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us through faith.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Elijah674]

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah[/quote]

You're full of it....and I don't mean the Holy Spirit, either.

Perhaps repenting is legalism also, seeing that some teach that the law is FINISHED!

And You just made your case! Eccl. 12:13-14. But there still might be time to repent?? Titus 3:9-11
--Elijah

PS: So what one is saying then, is that every time that you sin knowingly you are executing Christ afresh & putting Him to AN OPEN SHAME! Heb. 6:6 GOD/FORBID!

You seem content to deny the scripture...always going back to the Old Testament but ignoring the New. Many people prefer to remain under the schoolmaster....those who come by faith have moved on to become sons of God. We are now under grace. The righteousness of the law is now in us through the power of the indwelling Spirit.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The reason sin has no dominion over the saints is because the righteousness of Christ has been imputed to us through faith.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[/quote]

Is that me or you?? I do not disagree with the verse at all! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9. You are the one that seems to be arguing with the Holy Spirit's Striving??

Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

Is that me or you?? I do not disagree with the verse at all! Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9. You are the one that seems to be arguing with the Holy Spirit's Striving?? Elijah

I'm not sure how you come up with that. :nag
The Holy Spirit strives with man to lead him to repentance.
Some men resist...some don't.
Repentance is a necesssary part of salvation.
So whatever it may "seem" to you, I submit you don't know what you're talking about when you assume I'm arguing against something you "think" I'm saying. The fact remains, the Old Covenant waxed old and the New Covenant of Grace and Faith is now in effect.

As far as the verses you cited....I believe exactly what they say quite plainly.
Why would I deny this....it isn't the law that strengthens me?

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

And this? It's grace that is sufficient...not the law.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

So your point is?

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Keeping The Commandments Is Legalism
by Elijah674 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:47 pm

So what you have just said in bottom/line is that the Holy Spirit did not Inspire the Eternal Covenant! ...it is not hard to tell who some LOVE, huh? 'If ye Love ME keep MY Commandments' So it means that these ones do not Love Christ as well??

--Elijah[/quote]

OK: Acts 5:32 DOCUMENTS THE [[[ONLY]]] WAY ONE CAN HAVE THE HOLY GHOST!! {OBEY HIM!] CHRIST TELLS THE ONLY WAY TO BE SAVED IS TO BE BORN AGAIN! John 3:3
ALL BIBLE IS [[INSPIRED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT]]!! 2 Peter 1:20-21
--GOD'S FINISHED WORD!!!!!!

 

[Elijah674]

Was this COMMAND from God Legalism??

Perhaps one might see the requirement of God before the Virgin Candelstick was removed! It was fially so, but not in this chapter. Rev. 2:5 + Matt. 23:38's Total DESOLATION with Christ STRIVING with them in Person. Their Full/Cup as seen in the Matt. 25's CLOSED DOOR. (ibid.10)

Jer. 15

[15] O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke.
(All this from Christ's Very Own!)

[16] Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.
(You know! Matt. 4:4 & John 1's WORD! I forgot, you have trouble reading that in the N.T. while applying to the O.T.? See Deut. 8:3 then! or if you are off milk yet?? see Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15)

[17] I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.

[/s](that seems easy enough to understand for even the 'milk' drinking ones?? No names are mentioned, but it was the WHOLE OF THE PARTAKING FOLD, HUH! 'Rev. 18:4' Just one quick thought of your projected brothers,.. 'and don't forget the professed sisters!' when they are seen in Rev. 3:16-17's Lukewarm also, & then say that they die in that [sick luke/warm teperture], are they really to be SPEWED OUT as the Word of God states! NO question intended! And Jer. goes on....)

[18] Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?
(Now pay apt attention to what God requires of us guy's, or Jer. if that is your problem??)

[19] Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

[20] And I will make thee unto this people a fenced brasen wall: and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee: for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
(and see Matt. 10:5-38 for some more of God Eccl. 3:15 REPEATS!)

OK: You might need to look a tad part further for what made God + Jer, sick? Try Rev. 18:4 again?? or the garbage of the Rev. 17:5 'brothers' of some of the professed ones here! And 2 Peter 2:19-22's 'VOMIT' as is in verse 19.. while they 'promise them liberty', you know, only an work/less believism.

---Elijah

 

[Geo]

and it's confirmed again here:

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation. Isa 51:7-8