Keeping The Commandments Is Legalism

[JudaicChristian]

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of [the]se commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Revelation 3:5. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

Are people who are once saved always saved? Can a person lose their salvation? Are those scriptures to be ignored as legalism?
Is it possible for a name to be removed from God’s book of life, after a person has done whatever is needed to have it put in! And what is it that will cause a name to be removed? And what does God say?
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.â€

 

[Packrat]

Good post, mdo757.

We should make a distinction between legality, legalism and anarchy. Legality is obeying God's rules, regulations and Commandments. Legalism is doing what the Pharisees did and defeating the spirit of God's laws with the letter of those laws. Anarchy, on the other hand, is not observing God's rules, regulations or Commandments. Most Christians will agree that we should keep the Ten Commandments (which is great), but then they'll neglect to keep God's other regulations and appointed festivals, arguing that this would be "legalistic." To say that keeping God's rules and regulations as found in the Torah is legalistic is not right. To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is absurd. Such people promote a lifestyle of spiritual anarchy.

There can often be a fine line between keeping all of God's commands and being legalistic or the member of some anti-Gospel cult, but that is merely because Satan takes our love for God and our enthusiasm for obeying him and twists it around until we start to rely on such obedience to earn our salvation if we aren't careful. We should obey God but with clear minds and solemn hearts, realizing that all of our righteous deeds are as filthy rags and there is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ his Son. God almighty and merciful bless us and help us to understand this.

 

[Geo]

Yes following the commandments of men Is Legalism.

Following the commandments of God is Obedience.

Hey Packrat: "To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is absurd. Such people promote a lifestyle of spiritual anarchy."

Not only that.

I would add "To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is self-evident. The heart testifies about itself"

Either it's imprinted on it or it's not. ( Heb 10:16.+ 2 Cor. 3:3 ) Of course there can be a moment of selective darkness, also called self-deception about that, however that can not be persistent. Either the law is imprinted, or we are lawless. And the spirit is not Holy but unholy. And the mouth will testify about that either way. There is no grace operating in sin and lawlessness. That is not only absurd, it's loving a lie. We have to overcome.

 

[Packrat]

I would add "To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is self-evident. The heart testifies about itself"

Either it's imprinted on it or it's not. ( Heb 10:16.+ 2 Cor. 3:3 ) Of course there can be a moment of selective darkness, also called self-deception about that, however that can not be persistent. Either the law is imprinted, or we are lawless.

At first glance I didn't quite understand what you were saying, but now I do. Interesting take. I'm curious what you would think of my Legalism thread I just posted up. It's quite a long read, so if you're interested I encourage you to take your time.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Yes following the commandments of men Is Legalism.

Following the commandments of God is Obedience.

Hey Packrat: "To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is absurd. Such people promote a lifestyle of spiritual anarchy."

Not only that.

I would add "To say that keeping the Ten Commandments is legalistic is self-evident. The heart testifies about itself"

Either it's imprinted on it or it's not. ( Heb 10:16.+ 2 Cor. 3:3 ) Of course there can be a moment of selective darkness, also called self-deception about that, however that can not be persistent. Either the law is imprinted, or we are lawless. And the spirit is not Holy but unholy. And the mouth will testify about that either way. There is no grace operating in sin and lawlessness. That is not only absurd, it's loving a lie. We have to overcome.

"There is no grace operating in sin and lawlessness." I like that, but maybe this is better: For the lawless who continue to sin there is no grace. Naturally there are bumps along the way, but nothing an upright heart and mind can't cure.

 

[Benoni]

Please grow up.

Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:21-24).


A schoolmaster, (the Greek text gives, a child conductor), was one who held the child in restraint as they conducted the child from home to the school, making sure that there was no mischief along the way, and that the child arrived at the school. Then the child was given over to the care of the teacher, and the duty of the child conductor was ended. The child conductor did not stand in the back of the class room and continue to exercise control and authority over the child, for now the Teacher was in control, and there was to be no outside interference. So also, once we have been brought to Christ, and His anointing abides within us, we are to be led by the Spirit.

Let our teacher be the Holy Spirit and not the law of Moses. Unless of course you want to be always a spiritual child.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

 

[anasazi avatar]

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

Yes, we must obey the commandments, and Christ Himself gave us the 2 that we follow. The first 4 of the Ten Commandments are encompassed in the first of the 2 that Jesus Christ gave us. The remaining 6 of the Ten Commandments are encapsulated in the second.

:amen

 

[JudaicChristian]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

Yahshua was counted as a law breaker, but he never broke the law. Had Yahshua been a law breaker, then his sacrifice as a perfect Passover lamb would be impure. I trust what Yahshua said here, and many other places. Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

 

[JudaicChristian]

Please grow up.

Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:21-24).


A schoolmaster, (the Greek text gives, a child conductor), was one who held the child in restraint as they conducted the child from home to the school, making sure that there was no mischief along the way, and that the child arrived at the school. Then the child was given over to the care of the teacher, and the duty of the child conductor was ended. The child conductor did not stand in the back of the class room and continue to exercise control and authority over the child, for now the Teacher was in control, and there was to be no outside interference. So also, once we have been brought to Christ, and His anointing abides within us, we are to be led by the Spirit.

Let our teacher be the Holy Spirit and not the law of Moses. Unless of course you want to be always a spiritual child.

This thread is about God's Commandments, not the Mosaic laws. The Jews had the WRITTEN LAW, were as the Gentiles did not. Do you understand now? Romans 2:14
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,

 

[JudaicChristian]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of [the]se commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches [the]se commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Matthew 5:19
Anyone who breaks one of the least of [the]se commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches [the]se commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments. Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

What are you trying to say?
As I said, the law has been fulfilled...we are no longer under the law but under grace.

By leaving out verse 8, you failed to see the meaning of verse 9.
On the royal law of love hang all the other commandments.
We don't need a list of rules and regulations...as I said. ;)

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

We are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law speaks to those who are under the law.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith in Christ does not abolish the laws of God. Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

Yahshua was counted as a law breaker, but he never broke the law. Had Yahshua been a law breaker, then his sacrifice as a perfect Passover lamb would be impure. I trust what Yahshua said here, and many other places. Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Yes, as anasazi pointed out....the two...the royal law of love.

Mat 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

Yes, we must obey the commandments, and Christ Himself gave us the 2 that we follow. The first 4 of the Ten Commandments are encompassed in the first of the 2 that Jesus Christ gave us. The remaining 6 of the Ten Commandments are encapsulated in the second.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The law was fulfilled by Christ.
He not only fulfilled the law but He took the punishment the law required.

Now we walk in obedience to the Holy Spirit...not a set of rules and regulations.

What are you trying to say?
As I said, the law has been fulfilled...we are no longer under the law but under grace.

By leaving out verse 8, you failed to see the meaning of verse 9.
On the royal law of love hang all the other commandments.
We don't need a list of rules and regulations...as I said. ;)

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

We are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The law speaks to those who are under the law.
If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation. This thread is about God's Commandments, not the Mosaic laws. The Jews had the WRITTEN LAW, were as the Gentiles did not. Do you understand now? Romans 2:14
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are/have the [a] law for / unto themselves, even though they do not have the law,[the written laws]

 

[glorydaz]

If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation. This thread is about God's Commandments, not the Mosaic laws. The Jews had the WRITTEN LAW, were as the Gentiles did not. Do you understand now? Romans 2:14
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are/have the [a] law for / unto themselves, even though they do not have the law,[the written laws]

I can't read your mind...nor can I understand most of your posts.

So what is your point?
The Ten commandments are the stone law, they were given to Moses.

Are you referring to God's eternal law...that written on the heart...the conscience..the royal law?

 

[Rick W]

If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation.

That's not what Paul is saying.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The laws the gentiles followed that agreed with the laws of Moses such as honoring parents or condemning adultery for example still condemned them for their laws functioned for them as the Mosaic laws did for the Jews.

 

[JudaicChristian]

If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation.

That's not what Paul is saying.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The laws the gentiles followed that agreed with the laws of Moses such as honoring parents or condemning adultery for example still condemned them for their laws functioned for them as the Mosaic laws did for the Jews.

If the Gentiles who do not have the written laws are keeping the laws, then the laws are written in their hearts. Therfore they are keeping the laws. And God's grace is given to the Gentile for their faith.

 

[glorydaz]

If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation.

That's not what Paul is saying.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

The laws the gentiles followed that agreed with the laws of Moses such as honoring parents or condemning adultery for example still condemned them for their laws functioned for them as the Mosaic laws did for the Jews.

If the Gentiles who do not have the written laws are keeping the laws, then the laws are written in their hearts. Therfore they are keeping the laws. And God's grace is given to the Gentile for their faith.

I think the point is that keeping the law, whether written in the heart or written on stone, will not justify...only faith will. No one can keep the whole law...written on the heart or written on stone. If they sin in even one point they are guilty of all. It's faith that justifies...not the keeping of any law.

 

[Rick W]

If the Gentiles who do not have the written laws are keeping the laws, then the laws are written in their hearts. Therfore they are keeping the laws. And God's grace is given to the Gentile for their faith.

Yes. Agreed. And of course:

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What tripped me up was...
"If those who do not have the written law are keepig it [the laws] then there is no condemnation."

The Jews nor the gentiles could "keep" the law. Therefore the need for Christ to fulfill the law and present himself as the Lamb of God.

I think the point is that keeping the law, whether written in the heart or written on stone, will not justify...only faith will. No one can keep the whole law...written on the heart or written on stone. If they sin in even one point they are guilty of all. It's faith that justifies...not the keeping of any law.

exactly