Kevin Hovind On Creation

[King James]

[video=youtube;szBTl3S24MY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szBTl3S24MY[/video]
[video=youtube;PoRSBGD7vbA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoRSBGD7vbA[/video]
[video=youtube;HsQIF7Yh3hI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQIF7Yh3hI[/video]
[video=youtube;b8GgrUposII]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8GgrUposII[/video]
[video=youtube;MaS42TPOu0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaS42TPOu0U[/video]
[video=youtube;SY0rj-TEx4o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY0rj-TEx4o[/video]
[video=youtube;jRAnrMHU0hw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRAnrMHU0hw[/video]

 

[King James]

I agree. He is very straight forward and speaks with confidence. It's obvious he believes what he is telling you and he has done a lot of research. He will give you interesting facts that you will never hear about.

EDIT: I'm not going to post anymore in this thread. For people that want another take on this subject, please watch these videos when you have some free time, and decide for yourselves what is true. I'm not going to argue with people or split hairs with people on specific topics. Thanks.

 

[Milk-Drops]

He needs to work on his jokes though, lol.

And his facts. ;)

 

[King James]

He needs to work on his jokes though, lol.

I find it amusing that he thinks he is amusing.

 

[Claudya]

Hrmm, if he finds the evolution theory "one of the dumbest and most dangerous religions in the history of humanity" then how is he joking around and making comedy instead of focusing on the dangerous opponent? It's just making him look really smug.
And although I admit the video was somewhat entertaining, when he claimed he didn't believe in chemical evolution because he doesn't know how elements heavier than iron were formed - although he mentioned supernovae only seconds later in a different context - and that after 15 years of being a highschool science teacher, I decided not to continue watching because either he doesn't know his facts, or he believes his audience is dumb.
Oh and there's people that do observe star formation. A good friend of mine is an astrophysicist who did his doctor thesis and many more years of research observing the formation of massive stars. Those formation processes take too long to observe them during one human lifetime, but you can see different stages of star formation in different places in space. It's like looking at a number of pregnant women in different stages of their pregnancy in order to get a timelapse idea of how a new human is formed.

 

[Milk-Drops]

and

Hrmm, if he finds the evolution theory "one of the dumbest and most dangerous religions in the history of humanity" then how is he joking around and making comedy instead of focusing on the dangerous opponent? It's just making him look really smug.
And although I admit the video was somewhat entertaining, when he claimed he didn't believe in chemical evolution because he doesn't know how elements heavier than iron were formed - although he mentioned supernovae only seconds later in a different context - and that after 15 years of being a highschool science teacher, I decided not to continue watching because either he doesn't know his facts, or he believes his audience is dumb.
Oh and there's people that do observe star formation. A good friend of mine is an astrophysicist who did his doctor thesis and many more years of research observing the formation of massive stars. Those formation processes take too long to observe them during one human lifetime, but you can see different stages of star formation in different places in space. It's like looking at a number of pregnant women in different stages of their pregnancy in order to get a timelapse idea of how a new human is formed.

Something to note is that Kent is a very good presenter. His entire presentation is an act and hinges on distracting the audience from all the fallacies and out right lies. the biggest lie is his educational background and credencials.Kent Hovind doesnt have a doctorate in education or any of the sciences, his degree is in religous studies. He also never taught High school. He home schooled his kids and has given presentations on what he belieces is science. ;)

 

[Aardverk]

A good presenter can convince many people IF they don't give them time to stop and think. I found Billy Graham's tactics pretty transparent but when I went to a 'Moonies' gathering many years ago I was amazed to find that they had some very convincing points. It took me ten minutes walking down the street afterwards to realize that I had been 'programmed'. A potentially dangerous skill that some people possess.

This is the best example of 'programming' that I have ever seen. Derren Brown is obviously a very skilled exponent of the art. I really do recommend using up five minutes of your valuable time to see just how easily some people can trick us. [video=dailymotion;xmbh4q]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmbh4q_derren-brown-instant-conversion-part-1_fun[/video]
It's worth looking at part 2 as well. He has also done other 'instant conversions' just to demonstrate how easy it is. What a frightening notion that is! Are we all being fooled?

I met Derren a few years back, before he was famous. He showed me some 'mind reading' tricks that seems absolutely impossible. :o When he explained them, they were actually childishly simple.

He refrained from explaining some of his more 'useful' skills but obviously there are plenty of people out there who can do exactly the same - for their own nefarious purposes.

 

[Aardverk]

I met Derren a few years back, before he was famous. He showed me some 'mind reading' tricks that seems absolutely impossible. When he explained them, they were actually childishly simple.

On Kent's lack of being 100% accurate...who is 100% accurate? That's why we pray to the Holy Spirit for wisdom, understanding, and discernment. While Kent may not have all of his facts correct, I do not believe that he is some sort of evil genius out to destroy peoples faith and chance of salvation. You read, listen, and divide, taking the truth, rejecting the fallacies and carry on without exalting yourself to position of judge. Let the Spirit guide you.

I find it amusing how people will catch an untruth somewhere, and rather than give glory to God for the revelation, they will become judgmental and label the offender as an evil one...all the time knowing that they themselves are not 100% in their own knowledge!

For some reason, you quoted an extract from my post ........

1. I never referred to 100% accuracy nor indeed any measure of accuracy.
2. I never queried or challenged the content of his 'sermons'.
3. I never referred to him as an evil genius or evil anything else.

I mention these just in case someone else jumps to wrong conclusions. I am sure you didn't mean to misrepresent me in any way.

 

[Claudya]

A good presenter can convince many people IF they don't give them time to stop and think. I found Billy Graham's tactics pretty transparent but when I went to a 'Moonies' gathering many years ago I was amazed to find that they had some very convincing points. It took me ten minutes walking down the street afterwards to realize that I had been 'programmed'. A potentially dangerous skill that some people possess.

This is the best example of 'programming' that I have ever seen. Derren Brown is obviously a very skilled exponent of the art. I really do recommend using up five minutes of your valuable time to see just how easily some people can trick us. [video=dailymotion;xmbh4q]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmbh4q_derren-brown-instant-conversion-part-1_fun[/video]
It's worth looking at part 2 as well. He has also done other 'instant conversions' just to demonstrate how easy it is. What a frightening notion that is! Are we all being fooled?

I met Derren a few years back, before he was famous. He showed me some 'mind reading' tricks that seems absolutely impossible. :o When he explained them, they were actually childishly simple.

He refrained from explaining some of his more 'useful' skills but obviously there are plenty of people out there who can do exactly the same - for their own nefarious purposes.

That was really impressive. If I may propose a hypothesis: one reason those people could be converted so easily is because they were already seeking and secretly hoping for some sort of a conversion experience. Those were a bunch of agnostics and atheists attending a talk about spirituality, so they were at least curious about the topic and open minded. So since they came there with a part of themselves desiring for spiritual experience they were easily convinced. Half of the group leaving after the first "conversion" was even more of a filter for the more "open minded ones" - those that stayed.
An atheist that is rejecting religion entirely might still fall prey to the manipulation/ programming/ suggestive communication and fallen over or "felt something", but they would probably have concluded that the guy was playing tricks on their mind.

Speaking about suggestive... did you see the name of the user that posted those videos? That was a bit distracting.

 

[Milk-Drops]

On Kent's lack of being 100% accurate...who is 100% accurate? While Kent may not have all of his facts correct, I do not believe that he is some sort of evil genius out to destroy peoples faith and chance of salvation. You read, listen, and divide, taking the truth, rejecting the fallacies and carry on without exalting yourself to position of judge.

The problem isn't that the man is slightly off on facts. The problem is he and his family have created a business that is built off of spreading false information. Kent has been caught in outright lies several times. He makes up stories about talking to experts that he defeated to give his ideas a false sense of authority. He has taken exerts from text books and distorted them and claimed they said stuff they didn't. He shows zero respect for people that disagrees with him and was convicted of tax fraud and evasion. He never filled out the paperwork to make his ministry tax exempt and then lied to his donators about being able to write there said donations off as charity. He's a crook currently serving time and his son spends most of his time repeating fallacies and outright living for Jesus. These people are con men.

I don't have to be infallible to call a crook and liar as such.

 

[Claudya]

On Kent's lack of being 100% accurate...who is 100% accurate? While Kent may not have all of his facts correct, I do not believe that he is some sort of evil genius out to destroy peoples faith and chance of salvation. You read, listen, and divide, taking the truth, rejecting the fallacies and carry on without exalting yourself to position of judge.

The problem isn't that the man is slightly off on facts. The problem is he and his family have created a business that is built off of spreading false information. Kent has been caught in outright lies several times. He makes up stories about talking to experts that he defeated to give his ideas a false sense of authority. He has taken exerts from text books and distorted them and claimed they said stuff they didn't. He shows zero respect for people that disagrees with him and was convicted of tax fraud and evasion. He never filled out the paperwork to make his ministry tax exempt and then lied to his donators about being able to write there said donations off as charity. He's a crook currently serving time and his son spends most of his time repeating fallacies and outright living for Jesus. These people are con men.

I don't have to be infallible to call a crook and liar as such.

Okay, merely reading the wikipedia enty on that Hovind guy should open everyone's eyes.
It's not about him being somewhat "inaccurate". The whole guy is a charlatan. He's giving our Lord a bad name.
Those of you guys and gals here that consider yourselves creationists, please refrain from ever refering to Hovind. He'll only damage to your cause.

 

[Milk-Drops]

he and his family have created a business that is built off of spreading false information.

What's he wrong about?

Here is a play list that shows a person tearing apart one of Hovind's presentations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYkIrqaLers&list=PLE1414B6ABDACE7CE

I'll go into more detail about some of Kent's more popular arguments when I get home from my Sis's funeral.

currently serving time

I didn't know that![/QUOTE]Yeah, he didn't bother to register his bussiness, his ministry, or even cooperate with authorities or the government at all. He was caught a few years ago with years of tax fraud.

 

[Claudya]

Who is good? Who do you like?

Honestly, no idea, since I'm not a creationist.

While I do not agree with creationism, especially YEC, I believe that there must be creationists out there with
a) much better scienific credentials than Hovind.
b) personal trustworthiness and honesty.
So basically any creationist that takes both science and Scripure seriously and can participate in a fair and sober scientific debate with evolutionists.

 

[Milk-Drops]

That's it? A 20 second blurb on Kent hovind which say oh he's wrong, he lied...Uhh, ok. What did you do, a google search for debunk Kent Hovind and click the first link without watching it?

I'm currently in the middle of something as mentioned earlier. It was the first video I could get with limited Time. As I mentioned I'll go into more detail when I have the luxury of not being around grieving family and not running this way and that.

They barely mention him and have an unknown man saying evolution is truth and creationism is bunk.

You did get the 12 episode Playlist right? The guy took one of Kent's videos and split it up between 12 episodes. The First episode dissects the introduction. The 2nd through 12 addresses Hovind himself.

I'm not saying Kent is perfect, but you're not making a good case for him to be what you say he is...sorry.

As I mentioned I'm kind of in disposed at the moment. I also want to point out that his seminars are over several hours. I plan to tackle his major arguments when I get some time. I was training to become a High school Biology Teacher and spent 3 years taking classes, but switched to IT/computer science.

I'll get back to ya later.

 

[Milk-Drops]

@Edward

I was training to be a biology teacher during my first run at college and spent several hours, years, and days learning about differnt biological fields and the history that surounds these said fields. I eventually moved to IT/ Computer science because its another interest to me that wouldn't involve having to spend time dealing with the drama I've seen unroll when biology teachers discuss the theory of Evolution and taxonomy. For me, its just an interest now, but since I spent several years of my life studying it, I will defend it against sharletens who want to spread misinformation about several aspects of biology. In Cluding the theory of Evolution.

I don't mind if someone is Christian, Atheist, hindu, etc. They can believe whatever they want. However when it comes to claiming science says this or that, I will defend what science is actually meant to do. Observed and record results. Then create Hypothesises based on said observations and testing them. When models become evident, theories arise. Laws are constants, usually mathematical.

On to the video. I chose the Creation seminare 5 the Dangers of Evolution.

 

[Milk-Drops]

In the first 20 Seconds of the video, Kent's son Eric makes the claim that Hitler used the theory of Evolution to justify his actions during world war 2. This actually isn't true. Adolf Hitler had a messed up idea system based around several factors. Hitler was a Roman Catholic who actually denied Darwin's proposed ideas of Natural selection. Hitler resonated more with the current popular teachings of Nietzsche over the ideal Ubermench, or Super Man. Hitler believed that the Aryan race was the pure holy race and the strongest. His ideals were a blend of Nihilism, Catholicism, Eugenics, Germanic religion, etc.


From 1:23 until roughly 4 minutes in Kent starts talking the horrible things done in the name of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and several other people. He even mentions The columbine shooters. Hovind then states that its interesting that the shooters had a shirt that read "Natural Selection".
Hovind then points out a text book states that natural Selection causes evolution.

This is true, however none has to do with the horrible things Hovind Mentioned. Natural selection is an observed mechanic in both the theory of Evolution and Ecology where Species best able to adapt in their environment will survive and those that don't will go extinct. Its just an observation. Over time species that pass through natural selection and survive will acquire adaptations and changes. This is an observed evolution. The actual word evolution means change over time. It is not a philosophy.

From 4:30 until 6 minutes in, its more the same. Hovind mentions horrible incidents then says that its possible that what we teach our Children could be the cause of all the current crime rates.

This ignores several factors here. For instance the political and cultural situations that Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot were under. This also ignores the social and psychological problems of the murders that Hovind mentioned. In short, he is setting up an argument that kids are being taught some philosophy in schools that causes people to become murderers.
Hovind then procedes at 6 minutes in to ask what is evolution's Stance on right and Wrong. The problem here is that biological theory, is not a philosophy. Just an observation of how nature works.

This is the actual problem with Hovind. He isn't interested in actually disproving the theory of Evolution. He is more interested in trying to convince the audience of a made up philosophy called Evolutionism. Even to go as far to say anyone who teaches, works with, or accepts the theory of Evoltuion is an Evolutionist.

The problem is that Kent is making up the very philosophy. People don't identify as philosophical evolutionists. Kent get to make up a philosophy and then State who is and isn't an evolutionist. Labels such as these are self identifiable. It is dishonest to claim people believe this or that. Most of Kent's seminars revolve around this made up philosophy.

What actual evolutionary Biologists think, believe, or hold philosophically, is irrelevant. Kent will claim anyone who accepts the theory of Evolution as an Evolutionist. So in short, Kent is lieing to his audience from the word go and uses emotional manipulation to make people automatically reject and ignore anyone who doesn't deny the Theory of evolution.

Reviewing the rest of the video will just be reaffirming this point. Kent also tends to label any theory that he believes could possibly be trouble for literalistic Bible interpretations as Evolution. This goes back to Kent's made up philosophy Evolutionism and poisoning the well fallacy mentioned above.

 

[Milk-Drops]

I watched the first three videos. It sounded like mere opinion to me. I suppose it depends on what someone wants to believe what they will put stock into. It's no secret that I put very much stock in the scriptures.

As I stated earlier I don't mind if people have their own opinions that they form based on their point of view. My actual problem with Hovind is not that he disagrees with the theory of Evolution. Its more about his personal/ Minstry's made up religion called Evolutionism and the misrepresentation of Biology, Geology, cosmology, chemistry, physics, etc.

basically he is a major contributor to why many people think there is a Scientific conspiracy to lead people away from Christianity and become like Hitler. Its one of the major reasons I backed out of Becoming a Biology teacher. You wouldn't believe how many people will take what a charismatic person says at face value, instead of double checking to see if what they are saying is actually true.

If any of the videos have factual debunking of the doctrine that Kent puts out, I'd be interested in that, not so much vids about how evolution is supposed fact, because I don't believe in evolution, and have little interest in it. My understanding is that some scientists agree that creation is more likely than evolution. Not all scientists agree of course so these scientists are never quoted by evolutionists.

evolutionists don't exist. They are a made up religion with no real definition. With the exception of Dawkins, scientists don't identify as evolutionists.

If the big bang happened, wouldn't all the planets and galaxies be spinning in the same direction as Kent stated? Makes sense to me. But they don't.

Cosmology isn't really my field. However I know what you are referring to. Hovind isn't referencing the Big Bang model. Hovind is actually refering to the accretion disc theory. Which is a theory that explains the formation of just our solar system, not the other galaxies. The Big bang theory is based on retracing background radiation in space back to a singularity. This is because Space is always expanding in all directions based on Cosmological observations. Thanks to a ton of research, the big bang theory is based on what is known about matter and star formation and uses background radiation to track the universe back to the point of being a singularity. The Big Bang theory/ Model is just the explanation of how the universe would function during these stages.

 

[Free Christian]

Hi Claudya. You might be interested in the things that Jonathan Sarfati has to say about creation if you are interested in a fair and sober minded view from a creationists view point. He does take science and scripture seriously. Very informed man on the subject. Look him up, easily found.

 

[Claudya]

Thanks for that hint.
His academic biography as it is found on wikipedia does really look like Sarfati has done some real science (unlike Hovind). There's a lot of him in youtube, which unfortunately I don't have the time to watch right now, but will do so when I return home tonight.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

It's disgusting if people actually brought their children to hear Kent Hovind's teachings of the age of the universe. Good going, people! Way to get your children properly prepared for reality!


Measuring the age and size of the universe:

http://www.spacetelescope.org/science/age_size/