KJV-onlyism?

[farouk]

Re: disputes over family beliefs and doctrines

The links posted worked for me. moderator

Same here.

Blessings.

 

[WIP]

Worked for me as well. If you are unable to use them, try copying the link address to your address bar and pressing enter. It should take you to the site.

 

[farouk]

...He also acknowledged that you need versions in other languages.
...

questdriven:

Well, your dad was certainly right there.

Does the preacher/pastor at your local church really believe that there was advanced revelation into the English KJV, which supposedly causes it to 'correct' Bible versions in other languages? don't want to put words into his mouth, mind, but: they, and the King James, are all translations.

Blessings.

 

[evenifigoalone]

questdriven:

Well, your dad was certainly right there.

Does the preacher/pastor at your local church really believe that there was advanced revelation into the English KJV, which supposedly causes it to 'correct' Bible versions in other languages? don't want to put words into his mouth, mind, but: they, and the King James, are all translations.

Blessings.

He doesn't seem to be actually informed on this subject at any level. So I have no clue.

 

[reba]

Sorry Navigator. Thank you guys. My apologies. I use Firefox browser as my Window's Vista IE conflicted severely with Adobe Flash Player. I will now look for the answers I seek. I do believe that according to TOS if we reference material, esp. when it looks formatted as this is, that we provide a valid reference address. You are here Reba, am I mistaken?

Farouk, As you say, it could get quite lengthy, and it could do that quite unnecessarily. I am not here to waste time. Let me try my IE browser on these links and if I see what I suspect I will address it as concisely as possible later when I can find the time. Jim.

Here is the paragraph from our ToS.. CFnet does what it can to protect copyrighted possessions. I have had links not work for me then work they next time I tried... no problem

2.8: Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.
Refrain from all caps and bold, large fonts unless it is used sparingly to emphasise a point. Hotlinking of photos is PROHIBITED! Be sure to post your topic in the appropriate forum.. If you're not sure what forum to post your message in then please post it in the General Discussion Area or ask a Staff member.

 

[farouk]

He doesn't seem to be actually informed on this subject at any level. So I have no clue.

questdriven:

I see; like I said, I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, so to speak, but what I described about the English of the King James supposedly 'correcting' other translations (and even the Greek and Hebrew, according to some folk) is part of the wider King James Only literature out there. Not all King James Only advocates would go as far.

Blessings.

 

[evenifigoalone]

questdriven:

I see; like I said, I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, so to speak, but what I described about the English of the King James supposedly 'correcting' other translations (and even the Greek and Hebrew, according to some folk) is part of the wider King James Only literature out there. Not all King James Only advocates would go as far.

Blessings.

I know he does consider the KJ translation to be completely flawless. Which there's nothing to back that up and I'd even say demonstrably false, but oh well. Even if I wanted to change his mind I couldn't, so I'm not going to get hung up on it.

There's some literature in the church library that's KJV-only. I've read a couple of the books in the past. They didn't say anything about the KJV correcting past translations, but it looks like they did twist some historical facts to fit their agenda.

 

[reba]

Always remember Hollywood knows Jesus spoke in King James English. :crazy

 

[farouk]

I know he does consider the KJ translation to be completely flawless. Which there's nothing to back that up and I'd even say demonstrably false, but oh well. Even if I wanted to change his mind I couldn't, so I'm not going to get hung up on it.

There's some literature in the church library that's KJV-only. I've read a couple of the books in the past. They didn't say anything about the KJV correcting past translations, but it looks like they did twist some historical facts to fit their agenda.

questdriven:

Did they? I see.

It's good for writers (and preachers) to try hard to be factual before they make their assertions, anyway.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Hi Obadiah: saw your name pop up there; so what do you think of the recent discussion?

Blessings.

 

[Obadiah]

Hi Obadiah: saw your name pop up there; so what do you think of the recent discussion?

Blessings.

Me? Are you asking what I think of KJV-onlyism? It's a subject that I think does a lot of harm to the church in general.

Guess I've already said the basics of what I have to say about this (either in this thread or the other ones. Don't remember now.) I don't dislike the KJV, but I'm not at all in favor of the KJV only concept. In fact, the more I learn about the hard core holders of this idea, the more I disagree with them and the more I think their arguments come more from brainwashing than actual fact or logic. Especially when people hold to it like they are part of a cult. I've lost more than one friend over this when they fell in with the extreme KJV only cult members. When they started telling me it was more important to preach and teach the KJV only ideas than it was to preach and teach that Jesus is God's son and lead people to salvation through Jesus, I had to separate myself from them. (Their reasoning was that since all other versions of the Bible are "perversions and tools of Satan", no one can be saved by hearing scripture from a source other than the KJV, so their KJV only idea is far more important to them than salvation itself.) I even caught several of them in outright lies in gross and purposeful misquoting of scripture stating "God says..." And I'm not talking about misquoting a few words in a passage. They were picking out phrases from different chapters and even different books of the Bible, then weaving them together to look like one passage to support their ideas. None of the phrases they used when looked at in the context of the scripture they were lifted from had anything to do with their made up "scripture" they were quoting to me. They actually had the gall to think I either didn't have enough Bible knowledge to catch this or that I wouldn't dare confront them with it!

These people were my friends as well as I thought they were Christian brothers and sisters, but when they fell into the extreme KJV only cult there was no reasoning with them. I tried and tried until they wouldn't speak to me anymore. When they told me that the KJV (the physical book itself) was god and said they worship it, I had to discern that these people are not Christians. The fruits of the Spirit do not include worshiping idols, and they honestly didn't show any other fruits of the Spirit that I could see either.

So what do I think about KJV only? Sadly I think those who hold strongly to it (to the point of showing by words or actions that the physical paper and ink book itself is their god) are part of a cult and are not my Christian brothers and sisters. Christians are not supposed to venerate physical objects and do not knowingly and openly worship other gods.

By the way, I'm just talking about my experience with the hard core KJV-onlyists that my friends fell in with. I'm not accusing anyone here of being part of this extreme group. Ok, end of rant. Sorry.

 

[farouk]

Me? Are you asking what I think of KJV-onlyism? It's a subject that I think does a lot of harm to the church in general.

Guess I've already said the basics of what I have to say about this (either in this thread or the other ones. Don't remember now.) I don't dislike the KJV, but I'm not at all in favor of the KJV only concept. In fact, the more I learn about the hard core holders of this idea, the more I disagree with them and the more I think their arguments come more from brainwashing than actual fact or logic. Especially when people hold to it like they are part of a cult. I've lost more than one friend over this when they fell in with the extreme KJV only cult members. When they started telling me it was more important to preach and teach the KJV only ideas than it was to preach and teach that Jesus is God's son and lead people to salvation through Jesus, I had to separate myself from them. (Their reasoning was that since all other versions of the Bible are "perversions and tools of Satan", no one can be saved by hearing scripture from a source other than the KJV, so their KJV only idea is far more important to them than salvation itself.) I even caught several of them in outright lies in gross and purposeful misquoting of scripture stating "God says..." And I'm not talking about misquoting a few words in a passage. They were picking out phrases from different chapters and even different books of the Bible, then weaving them together to look like one passage to support their ideas. None of the phrases they used when looked at in the context of the scripture they were lifted from had anything to do with their made up "scripture" they were quoting to me. They actually had the gall to think I either didn't have enough Bible knowledge to catch this or that I wouldn't dare confront them with it!

These people were my friends as well as I thought they were Christian brothers and sisters, but when they fell into the extreme KJV only cult there was no reasoning with them. I tried and tried until they wouldn't speak to me anymore. When they told me that the KJV (the physical book itself) was god and said they worship it, I had to discern that these people are not Christians. The fruits of the Spirit do not include worshiping idols, and they honestly didn't show any other fruits of the Spirit that I could see either.

So what do I think about KJV only? Sadly I think those who hold strongly to it (to the point of showing by words or actions that the physical paper and ink book itself is their god) are part of a cult and are not my Christian brothers and sisters. Christians are not supposed to venerate physical objects and do not knowingly and openly worship other gods.

By the way, I'm just talking about my experience with the hard core KJV-onlyists that my friends fell in with. I'm not accusing anyone here of being part of this extreme group. Ok, end of rant. Sorry.

Okay, ty Obadiah! I would I guess agree with a good deal of what you say.

I really appreciate and use the King James, but am certainly not King James Only.

Blessings.

 

[Mitspa]

Me? Are you asking what I think of KJV-onlyism? It's a subject that I think does a lot of harm to the church in general.

Guess I've already said the basics of what I have to say about this (either in this thread or the other ones. Don't remember now.) I don't dislike the KJV, but I'm not at all in favor of the KJV only concept. In fact, the more I learn about the hard core holders of this idea, the more I disagree with them and the more I think their arguments come more from brainwashing than actual fact or logic. Especially when people hold to it like they are part of a cult. I've lost more than one friend over this when they fell in with the extreme KJV only cult members. When they started telling me it was more important to preach and teach the KJV only ideas than it was to preach and teach that Jesus is God's son and lead people to salvation through Jesus, I had to separate myself from them. (Their reasoning was that since all other versions of the Bible are "perversions and tools of Satan", no one can be saved by hearing scripture from a source other than the KJV, so their KJV only idea is far more important to them than salvation itself.) I even caught several of them in outright lies in gross and purposeful misquoting of scripture stating "God says..." And I'm not talking about misquoting a few words in a passage. They were picking out phrases from different chapters and even different books of the Bible, then weaving them together to look like one passage to support their ideas. None of the phrases they used when looked at in the context of the scripture they were lifted from had anything to do with their made up "scripture" they were quoting to me. They actually had the gall to think I either didn't have enough Bible knowledge to catch this or that I wouldn't dare confront them with it!

These people were my friends as well as I thought they were Christian brothers and sisters, but when they fell into the extreme KJV only cult there was no reasoning with them. I tried and tried until they wouldn't speak to me anymore. When they told me that the KJV (the physical book itself) was god and said they worship it, I had to discern that these people are not Christians. The fruits of the Spirit do not include worshiping idols, and they honestly didn't show any other fruits of the Spirit that I could see either.

So what do I think about KJV only? Sadly I think those who hold strongly to it (to the point of showing by words or actions that the physical paper and ink book itself is their god) are part of a cult and are not my Christian brothers and sisters. Christians are not supposed to venerate physical objects and do not knowingly and openly worship other gods.

By the way, I'm just talking about my experience with the hard core KJV-onlyists that my friends fell in with. I'm not accusing anyone here of being part of this extreme group. Ok, end of rant. Sorry.

I have seen this also and have decided that playing the nice church games with some of these people is not the godly thing to do at all. Glad to see that others are secure enough to speak the truth. To the humble we are to become as servants , to the proud we are to be as unmoving as the Lord was against the pharisees of His day.

 

[Obadiah]

I have seen this also and have decided that playing the nice church games with some of these people is not the godly thing to do at all. Glad to see that others are secure enough to speak the truth. To the humble we are to become as servants , to the proud we are to be as unmoving as the Lord was against the pharisees of His day.

Thanks guys. I was having second thoughts about even posting that.

 

[farouk]

I have seen this also and have decided that playing the nice church games with some of these people is not the godly thing to do at all. Glad to see that others are secure enough to speak the truth. To the humble we are to become as servants , to the proud we are to be as unmoving as the Lord was against the pharisees of His day.

Yes, as long as we don't come across as attacking fellow Christians or the King James itself, I would submit; this is how I see it, anyway.

 

[EdenBorn]

The reason 'KJV-only' exists is because it is the first and primary bible of the Church of England. Obviously, if you are an Anglican or Protestant, the KJV is naturally going to be more appealing because it's tailored to English and otherwise northern interpretation.
It is the prime alternative to Oriental and Catholic bibles. Other translations exist simply to help the reader understand, which unfortunately alters context from time to time.

But 'KJV-only' is a bit extreme. If your using anything for theology or critical interpretation, it should be a concordance or something of the sort rather then any bible period (or at least cross-examined with such)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Other translations exist simply to help the reader understand, which unfortunately alters context from time to time.

Again I must take issue with such statements as they fail to take into account that the KJV was translated from only 400 late transcripts -- "late" meaning, copied several generations after the first copies were made in the first century -- "late" representing the worst of copying errors, given that they were so far removed from the originals. The other translations are more accurate because they rely on older transcripts supported by duplication throughout the early generations of copies and are in complete agreement with one another. The KJV is an excellent translation, but it is not the best. That could be argued among the NASB, ESV and Holman. The KJV is very close in reliability to all of them despite the lateness of the transcripts upon which that version relies. That speaks volumes about the reliability of all the transcripts -- over 5,000 in number -- as opposed to the reliability of the KJV itself.

 

[farouk]

this: Interestingly, though, the King James turns out in its New Testament text to be more broadly representative of the majority of extant manuscripts, even though Erasmus's Greek editions were based immediately on a smaller proportion of these. The New King James continues to follow this textual base.

 

[gr8grace]

Again I must take issue with such statements as they fail to understand that the KJV was translated from only 400 late transcripts -- late meaning, copied several generations after the first copies were made in the first century -- which represented the worst of copying errors, given that they were so far removed from the originals. The other translations are more accurate because they rely on older transcripts supported by duplication throughout the early generations of copies and are in complete agreement with one another. The KJV is an excellent translation, but it is not the best. That could be argued among the NASB, ESV and Holman. The KJV is very close in reliability to all of them despite the lateness of the transcripts upon which that version relies. That speaks volumes about the reliability of all the transcripts -- over 5,000 in number -- as opposed to the reliability of the KJV itself.

I completely agree. NASB seems to be a superb translation, even compared to the ESV.

1 verse in the KJV that stands out is Rom 8:1 the KJV adds “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” But the original language says....There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

 

[farouk]

I completely agree. NASB seems to be a superb translation, even compared to the ESV.

1 verse in the KJV that stands out is Rom 8:1 the KJV adds “who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” But the original language says....There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

It's repeated in verse 4.