Are fake shepherds going to paradise? John 15:2. Every branch in Me that bears not fruit He takes away, and every branch that bears fruit, He purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 15:5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: 15:6. If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Will the heretics and false preachers find clemency on judgement day? Do spirtual murderers get off free?. Ephesians 5:11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Expose liars and fake shepherds. Teaching contrary to sound doctrine. Hebrews 6:6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame. PARAPITO in Greek means = and fall away. Apostates are sell outs. Heretics and false preachers either compromised or seek personal gain. Is eternal life possible for spirtual murderers?? Or B, the lake of fire!.
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Lake of fire or paradise for false preachers?.
- Thread starter Anaphora
- Start date
What if it's not for personal gain but they really believe what they teach?
I’d speak more of Christianity as Level 3, and Heaven to come as Level 4. If any Christian (man/woman/child) fails to dwell with Jesus, he will not dwell with them (proportionality), and they will be as useless to Christianity as the lifeless branches which got burnt in viticulture. I’d say this bit was purely about L3 side-lining, and that useless Christians ultimately go to L4.
What about [heretics and false preachers]. They can miss heaven within L3, without necessarily missing heaven at L4. Even John Calvin held that had Cornelius never become a Christian, heaven would await him postmortem.
On Heb.6/10, I’d say that while former Christians keep on crucifying Christ, they aren’t Christians and cannot be restored/indwelt while they are unrepentant. I don’t hold that such folk could never have been Christians, nor that they can never be restored to L3. Again, whether they make L4, is to me based on their heart towards deity.
Eternal life (L3) & everlasting life (L4) are possible for [spirtual murderers]. The former, if they repent towards messiah (Paul was the ‘worst’ of pre-Christian sinners); the latter, if they have true love for deity—“ They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God” (NIV: Jhn.16:2).
What about [heretics and false preachers]. They can miss heaven within L3, without necessarily missing heaven at L4. Even John Calvin held that had Cornelius never become a Christian, heaven would await him postmortem.
On Heb.6/10, I’d say that while former Christians keep on crucifying Christ, they aren’t Christians and cannot be restored/indwelt while they are unrepentant. I don’t hold that such folk could never have been Christians, nor that they can never be restored to L3. Again, whether they make L4, is to me based on their heart towards deity.
Eternal life (L3) & everlasting life (L4) are possible for [spirtual murderers]. The former, if they repent towards messiah (Paul was the ‘worst’ of pre-Christian sinners); the latter, if they have true love for deity—“ They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God” (NIV: Jhn.16:2).
Christ_empowered
Member
I dunno 
Catholics apparently teach that some unbelievers go to Heaven because of serious impediments to their conversion on earth. Maybe that’s true of some self deluded false teachers?
Catholics apparently teach that some unbelievers go to Heaven because of serious impediments to their conversion on earth. Maybe that’s true of some self deluded false teachers?
Murderers have no eternal life abiding in them, only those who lay their lives down as Christ, do.
He that loves not their brother, abides in DEATH.
Talkers ( teachers) are therefore all false, and cannot be otherwise.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
He that loves not their brother, abides in DEATH.
Talkers ( teachers) are therefore all false, and cannot be otherwise.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
John 16:1-4 teaches us that there will be people in the world who honestly will believe they're true Christians who will not be and they will be against the people who are the true Christians. So it doesn't matter how much you believe something to be true. If it's not consistent with the scriptures then you are not truly teaching the truth about the true God and his kingdom. So it does matter what you teach. It must be consistent with the scriptures.
If fake Shepard's truly repent and turn around and start being true shepard's they will be forgiven.
What I'm saying is, that if individuals in an organization of fake Shepard's repent like Paul did. Paul was a Pharisee in the beginning before he became a Christian. This organization Jesus had already condemned to eternal destruction. So those in organizations like, the Pharisees, who say they are true servants of the true God but are not, and persecute true Christians in the true organization(Church) if individuals in those organizations repent and associate themselves with the true organization(church) they will be forgiven. But the organization itself will be destroyed for eternity and all those individuals who remain in such organizations who have not repented, will be destroyed forever with it.
Highway54
Member
Unless they have sinned against the holy spirit, and no doubt many of them have, they will be given the same chance for life as all the other sheep.
Yes, we are to weed out and expose false teaching. It's destructive to the flock. We all need to be vigilant in this area. Remember, however, that Jesus commended the Church of Ephesus for their stance against false doctrine, but He still had something against them; they had left their first love. Wow! They had done so many pleasing things, but lacked their first love. We all need to take note of this.
Revelation 2
[1] Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
[2] I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
[3] And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
[4] Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
[5] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
[6] But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
[7] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Paul did not repent of being a false teacher, Paul is the example of grace. ( a chosen vessel to bear the Lords name
When false shepherds blaspheme the Lords Holy name, they continue to do what they were appointed to do, make some sense.
1 Thessalonians 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
Hebrews 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Do you think you can make Revelation 2:1-7, show that false teaching can be exposed ?
The first love they left was the first works, they were not doing them, and all they had was finding out liars.
The lie they could not find out ( to overcome, to eat of the tree of life) was to find out the truth, then all the liars in the world cannot matter, because the truth overcomes them.
Meanwhile, many false teachers riser to deceive many. ( deceived by having pleasure in unrighteousness, as told.)
2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
Paul was a Pharisee before he was a Christian. As an organization, Pharisees were disciples of Satan. Satan is all about that which is false, Satan and his disciples teach false things about the True God and the truth that's in the scriptures.
Paul was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
But, false teachers are appointed to deceive many. ( they cant stop doing what they were appointed to do, now can you disagree without denying Christ, because the day of Christ does not come without this falling away now, so NO MAN CAN DECEIVE US BY ANY MEANS...)
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
If you're trying to say that God chose specific people, meaning the True God YHWH specifically chose Peter, John, Paul, etc, before he created planet earth or before he created Adam, I'm going to disagree with you. It's true that the True God YHWH prophesied that there would be those who would belong to him. Genesis 3:15 is proof of that. He wasn't however specifically saying exactly which individual person would belong to him he was just prophesying that there would be those that would belong to him. The True God YHWH wasn't when he stated Genesis 3:15 specifically stating which individual human beings would belong to that seed. In others words God wasn't saying at the time he stated Genesis 3:15 that Abel, Noah, Abraham, Matthew, John, Peter or Paul would belong to that group, he let free will decide who would belong to that group.
So membership for that heavenly Messianic kingdom that these “brothers” were to inherit was foreknown before the “founding of the world,” that is, before the world of mankind came into being through the birth of children to the first human pair, Adam and Eve. The apostle Paul, writing to fellow Christians, states: “God chose us in union with Christ before the founding of the world.”(Ephesians 1:4, 5)
The Greek word kosmos is connected with the world of mankind so this aids one in understanding what is meant by the phrase, “the founding of the world,” as referred to in a number of scriptures. These scriptures speak of certain things as taking place ‘from the founding of the world.’ These include the ‘shedding of the blood of the prophets’ from the time of Abel onward, a ‘kingdom prepared,’ and ‘names being written on the scroll of life.’ (Luke 11:50, 51; Matthew 25:34; Revelations 13:8; 17:8; compare Matthew 13:35; Hebrews 9:26.) Such things relate to human life and activity, and so “the founding of the world” must relate to the beginning of mankind, not to the inanimate creation or the animal creation. Hebrews 4:3 shows that God’s creative works were, not started, but “finished from the founding of the world.” Since Eve was evidently the last of YHWH God's earthly creative works, the world’s founding could not precede her.
I agree we must all ask ourselves, is God's foreknowledge infinite, without limit? Does God foresee and foreknowledge all future actions of all individual angels and every and all individual human beings? Does God foreordain such actions or even predestinate what shall be the final destiny of every and all individual angels and human beings, even before they have come into existence. Or, is God’s exercise of foreknowledge selective and discretionary, so that whatever he chooses to foresee and foreknow, he does, but what he does not choose to foresee or foreknow, he does not? And, instead of preceding their existence, does God’s determination of his creatures’ eternal destiny await his judgment of their course of life and of their proved attitude under test? The answers to these questions must of necessity come from the Scriptures themselves and the information they provide concerning God’s actions and dealings with his creatures, including what has been revealed through his Son, Christ Jesus.(1Corinthians 2:16)
The view that God’s exercise of his foreknowledge is infinite and that he does foreordain the course and destiny of all individuals is known as predestinarian view of omniscient(all-knowing). Those who believe in this view of omniscient, reason that God’s divinity and perfection require that he be omniscient (all-knowing), not only respecting the past and present but also regarding the future. According to this concept of omniscient, for him not to foreknow all matters in their minutest detail would evidence imperfection. Such examples as the case of Isaac’s twin sons, Esau and Jacob, are presented as evidence of God’s foreordaining creatures before their birth (Roman 9:10-13); and scriptures such as Ephesians 1:4, 5 are cited as evidence that God foreknew and foreordained the future of all his creatures even before the start of creation.
For this view of omniscient o be correct, would have to harmonize with all the factors previously mentioned, including the Scriptural presentation of God’s qualities, standards, and purposes, as well as his righteous ways in dealing with his creatures. (Re 15:3, 4) We may properly consider, then, the implications of such a predestinarian view.
This concept would mean that, prior to creating angels or earthling man, God exercised his powers of foreknowledge and foresaw and foreknew all that would result from such creation, including the rebellion of one of his spirit sons, the subsequent rebellion of the first human pair in Eden (Genesis 3:1-6; John 8:44), and all the bad consequences of such rebellion down to and beyond this present day. This would necessarily mean that all the wickedness that history has recorded (the crime and immorality, oppression and resultant suffering, lying and hypocrisy, false worship and idolatry) once existed, before creation’s beginning, only in the mind of God, in the form of his foreknowledge of the future in all of its minutest details.
If the Creator of mankind had indeed exercised his power to foreknow all that history has seen since man’s creation, then the full weight of all the wickedness thereafter resulting was deliberately set in motion by God when he spoke the words: “Let us make man.” (Genesis 1:26) These facts bring into question the reasonableness and consistency of the predestinarian view of omniscient; particularly so, since the disciple James shows that disorder and other vile things do not originate from God’s heavenly presence but are “earthly, animal, demonic” in source.(James 3:14-18)
You seem to be just a person who disagrees, instead of acknowledging/consenting to the doctrine that is according to godliness.
God does things specifically as we see always, Chose Abraham on purpose, then specifically gave Isaac in promise, then chose only Jacob, and rejected Esau. It was always of Gods election, it is of God who calls them.
Romans 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Also Jesus Christ was specifically foreordained before the foundation of the world.
Of course that same Shepherd of the sheep knows HIs own sheep specifically, and calls them by name. 9 below we see Jesus calls Simon the son of Jona, and gives him the name Cephas/a stone.
Nathanael shows surprise that Jesus the Shepherd of the sheep knows him already. ( always knew His sheep by name.)
John the Baptist also, was chosen by God to go and baptise and show the way of the Lord.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
The end result of creation, of separating light from darkness, is that there will no more night.
To stop night, evil, light had to be chosen, and God chose those of the day and light, to reject what is spoken in darkness, then the light shines forth.
See the last scriptures to show how the darkness ends.
Anyone/body reading, pay attention against those who show they see nothing of light.
The candle gives light, letting our light shine before men, the light of a candle shines no more in this world soon, then they have no need of a candle or of the sun to give them light, the Lord God gives us light, and they reign for ever, as the righteous shines forth in the Kingdom of their Father.
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
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Christ_empowered
Member
Scripture advises that few should teach because of the heavy responsibility.
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