Learn What the Bible Says about the Occult

[Ed the Ned]

So we all know the bible says the Occult is wrong. My question is this-Why would God have put the occult on this planet if he frowns upon it? What is so bad about it? What are prophecies if not divination? How did Christ perform miracles without possessing magical abilities? Food for thought...

Hi essenetials, WOW this surely eats at any thought process!! The occult stems from the fall of man, the great lie, that we would become God. It was through mans actions and not Gods that the occult made its way into the lives of man. It is bad because it does not put God first and prophecies are divine yes, but not all prophecies are from God, hence the term false prophets. Biblical prophecies are the word of God alone and as for the miricales of Christ being "magical abilities" is a slap in the face. Christ is God, He created the universe, it might seem like magic for an onlooker, but to a Christian it is the power of a supreme God.

It is God who says the occult is wrong, he tells through the Bible why it is wrong and Christ died for our sins so we will have eternal life with him. The occult is in essence Satins tool to decieve. And as the OP has mentioned it is eating at the heart of the Church.

 

[sherri2]

The Bible tells us to have nothing to do with the spiritual realm as its satan's domain.

No it doesn't. It tells us not to practice witchcraft. Big difference.

Joseph was a dream interpreter. Guess what is outlawed in Leviticus? Dream interpretation and divination.

I'd like to know the scriptures you're referring too. Outlawed in leviticus? I haven't noticed. Divination is not dream interpretation. Two different things.

I heard a story once (from what I would consider a reliable source) of witchdoctors using sticks to fly on in Papua New Guinea. (seen by missionaries I think). Since people can astral travel and witchs are linked historically to flying on broomsticks, it wouldn't suprise me. Obviously you'd need a demon or demonic power to make your stick/thing float and fly, but then I think a lot of astral travel is done with the help of spirit guides so yeah.

I don't disbelieve it, but I wonder if God does a version too. He obviously lifts peoples spirits to take them places, there's examples of that in the bible as well as many by normal christians. But what if the flying thing is true. The devil tends to do a lot of counterfeiting of Gods miracles and practices, so I'm curious if that has a God version as well. I've heard of christians walking on water and missionarie(s) walking across air. (Can't prove it since I wasn't there) but I am curious about the flying thing.

(I heard a story once in my church movement where we saw God move a lot, of a church family being near a cliff edge for some reason and their toddler running off the edge by mistake. Apparently the child turned around about a foot over the edge of the cliff in mid-air and then ran back on. I know for a fact that the pastors involved in my church wouldn't make something like that up, so I'm not suprised that missionaries might end up in something like that, especially in a stand off with the local witchdoctor or whatever.)

But anyway. Gods supernatural is better, but I think we don't see more of it due to people fearing things they can't control.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

I'd like to know the scriptures you're referring too.

Genesis, the story of Joesph son of Jacob.

Outlawed in leviticus?

Yep, witch craft.

I haven't noticed.

Have you read it?

Divination is not dream interpretation. Two different things.

No it isn't, Divination is a cetch all term for any type of future reading. Joseph would tell the future based on dreams. He would use the symbolism in these dreams to determine the future. Divination is the use of symbols and God(s) to forsee omens or the future in general. Dreams, terrot cards, tea leaves, bone burning, etc are all types of divination. Joseph performed divination.

I heard a story once (from what I would consider a reliable source) of witchdoctors using sticks to fly on in Papua New Guinea. (seen by missionaries I think).

I'm not calling you a liar, but without me being able to witness this for myself, I'm not going to believe it. Even if a person has no reason to lie, they can be fooled and not know it.

Since people can astral travel

When ever those that claim to be able to astro travle, they seem to not be alble to do it when science wants to observe it.

and witchs are linked historically to flying on broomsticks, it wouldn't suprise me.

The broom stick thing is a cultural thing that originates from fairy tales. Most witch stories are exagerated themes used to place wickedness on people of other tribes. David talked about Idol worshipers and did so wrongly. THen the Jews where obsorbed by Rome and had trade encounters with Hindus and Tribes in the East and west. They actually learned what Idol worshipers actually are. Its all a bunch of story telling to set up a perconcieved notion.

Obviously you'd need a demon or demonic power to make your stick/thing float and fly, but then I think a lot of astral travel is done with the help of spirit guides so yeah.

Or you could use God, magnetism, gravity, or a primitive propulsion system. +

I don't disbelieve it, but I wonder if God does a version too. He obviously lifts peoples spirits to take them places, there's examples of that in the bible as well as many by normal christians. But what if the flying thing is true. The devil tends to do a lot of counterfeiting of Gods miracles and practices, so I'm curious if that has a God version as well. I've heard of christians walking on water and missionarie(s) walking across air. (Can't prove it since I wasn't there) but I am curious about the flying thing.

I'm curious to.

(I heard a story once in my church movement where we saw God move a lot, of a church family being near a cliff edge for some reason and their toddler running off the edge by mistake. Apparently the child turned around about a foot over the edge of the cliff in mid-air and then ran back on. I know for a fact that the pastors involved in my church wouldn't make something like that up, so I'm not suprised that missionaries might end up in something like that, especially in a stand off with the local witchdoctor or whatever.)

But anyway. Gods supernatural is better, but I think we don't see more of it due to people fearing things they can't control.[/QUOTE]

 

[Ed the Ned]

Yoga means "to join" or "union with God" it comes from the Sanskrit word yuj. It is not reffering to the God of the Bible. The mere definition of the word is spiritual and should not be seperated from the physical movements of yoga.

According to Swami Vishnudevananda author of "the complete illustrated Book of Yoga" the purpose of yoga is: "It is the duty of each developed man to train his body to the highest degree of perfection so it may be used to pursue the spiritual purposes. The expression of the spirit increases in proportion to the development of the body and mind in which it is encased. The aim of ALL (empahsise mine) yoga practice is to achieve truth wherein the individual soul identifies itself with the supreme soul of God" (Not the God of the Bible)

Krishna is not the Hindu God as Lance has pointed out. He is according to some Hindu sects the eight or nineth incarnatioin of Vishnu. Vishnu is one of the Triad Godheads of Hinduism the others being Brahma and Shiva. From this we can deduce that he is not the God of the Hindu people.

"Maya is a Hindu principle that all is an illusion and and that ultimatly the physical world, contacted through the conscous mind and the five senses does not represent reality" - the concise guide to todays religions and spirituality - by James K Walker.
This Maya belief is not connected the the Maya Civilization of the central America region and the religous practices of the Mayians had nothing to do with this.

I don't think we need to dig any deeper into yoga, it is clear from Hindu writing that it has deep spiritual implications and any form of research will expose this. I am not talking only about Christian writing. (refer to quotes from Swami Vishnudevananda). If a Church is promoting yoga, I agree, voice your disapproval and if no one listens Flee. Streching and doing physical excercise cannot be deemed yoga, yoga is religous practice that removes us from fellowship with the true God.

"Divination: In Christian theology, the attempt to supernaturally gain hidden (occult) knowledge about the future, through means seperate from the God of the Bible." - the concise guide to todays religions and spirituality by James K Walker. We cannot compare Joseph and Daniel and there interpretation of Dreams occult as the dreams and the interpretation came from God. Daniel was very clear that that God had told him the interpretation of the dreams and all glory went to God. Please read the book of Daniel to get further insight into how God was glorified.

 

[sherri2]

Genesis, the story of Joesph son of Jacob.

Scripture please. Then we can all read it.

Yep, witch craft. Have you read it?

Well we'd all like to.

Joseph would tell the future based on dreams. He would use the symbolism in these dreams to determine the future. Divination is the use of symbols and God(s) to forsee omens or the future in general. Dreams, terrot cards, tea leaves, bone burning, etc are all types of divination. Joseph performed divination.

Actually dream interpreation and divination are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Scripture please.

Thank you.

When ever those that claim to be able to astro travle, they seem to not be alble to do it when science wants to observe it.

Well I know someone who used to before he became a christian.

The broom stick thing is a cultural thing that originates from fairy tales.

Says you. Actually there can be a lot of truth in folk tales that deal with the demonic from my experience.

Most witch stories are exagerated themes used to place wickedness on people of other tribes.

That's a broad statement. And unsuprisingly, unprovable.

David talked about Idol worshipers and did so wrongly.

Yeah David never knew what he was talking about. Why did they put that guy in the bible in the first place.

THen the Jews where obsorbed by Rome and had trade encounters with Hindus and Tribes in the East and west.

Yeah the Jews had no idea what idol worship was. The accounts of it in the old testament are a complete fallacy. I mean why do we read the bible???

They actually learned what Idol worshipers actually are. Its all a bunch of story telling to set up a perconcieved notion.

Yep, the devil doesn't exist. Funnily enough, I've heard that before.

Or you could use God, magnetism, gravity, or a primitive propulsion system.

ALIENS! *slaps head. Why didn't I think of that.


I'm curious to know why you're trying to throw up smokescreens and deny the validity of the bible on a christian forum.

 

[Pard]

My mom's friend owns a bunch of yoga studios all over the area. I asked her and she said that yoga is the means of attaining a closeness to god. Her husband concurred with her when I asked him the same question. They are both crazy yoga people. They got India each year to train with super grand yoga masters.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Scripture please. Then we can all read it.

Genesis 37-50. its one of the most famous stories of the bible. There are musicals, kids movies, films, and books on just these sections alone. I can't believe you haven't heard of it.

Well we'd all like to.

Are there no bibles near you?

Actually dream interpreation and divination are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Scripture please.

Nope, they are the same thing. Dream interpritation is a form of divination.

Here is the scripture banning it.
"There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer." - Deuteronomy 18:10-11 IT was in Deut not Leviticus, sorry.

Well I know someone who used to before he became a christian.

Cool.

Says you. Actually there can be a lot of truth in folk tales that deal with the demonic from my experience.

So all whiches have green skin, fly on brooms, where black pointy hats, and cackle? People turn into wolves at the full moon, fairies exist, and there are giants wandering in Scandinavia?

That's a broad statement. And unsuprisingly, unprovable.

Its unprovable that polotics and culture embellish and create enemies to further goals and explain why certain people we might not even know are bad? Have you ever watched the news or opened a History book.

Yeah David never knew what he was talking about. Why did they put that guy in the bible in the first place.

Hahaha, nice trick. David was a King, all kings abuse their power. Its basic polotics, create and enemy, and overexagerate them.

We do this today, like calling anyone who isn't a republican a socialist, all Muslims are terrorists, black people are criminals, all Mexicans are illegal, all illegals are Mexicans, the french are wimps, Europeans are elitist, etc. its common and how society has always worked.

Yeah the Jews had no idea what idol worship was.

Never said this, I said that David sewed misinformation through polotics about Idol worshipers.

The accounts of it in the old testament are a complete fallacy. I mean why do we read the bible???

You do know the Bible as we have it today wasn't printed or readily available to the public until the enlightenment. A thousand plus years after the Kingdom of David. You where aware of that right, and that most of the stories of the Old testament where told via oral tradition. Not to mention that there where several differn't sects of Judaism within Isreal fighting for who had it correct. One of the sects being Baalists, who where eventually stamped out by David and then written down a satan worshipers. Winners always wright history in their favor.

Yep, the devil doesn't exist. Funnily enough, I've heard that before.

You like to put words in people's mouths. How you turned false stories about Idol worshipers into me saying the Devil dosen't exist, is quite hilarious.

ALIENS! *slaps head. Why didn't I think of that.

Its just as believable as demons.

I'm curious to know why you're trying to throw up smokescreens

I'm not, explaining basic history and word definition isn't a smokescreen. Pointing to scripture in your own holy text isn't a smokescreen. Its actually more interesting That you are refusing the story of Joseph and unwilling to acknowledge that some of the Bible is political in nature. Not to mention how you are unaware of the history surrounding the printing of the Bible and how Fairy tales work.

and deny the validity of the bible on a christian forum.

When did I deny its validity? Here we go with you putting words in my mouth again. Me disagreeing and pointing out incorrect information isn't me attacking your religion. Learn to take some criticism and to remain calm durring an argument. It was you who drew information out of no where. As in claiming I stated that the Devil didn't exist, and that David had no place in the Bible.

I'm sorry, but you are the guilty party here.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Krishna is not the Hindu God as Lance has pointed out. He is according to some Hindu sects the eight or nineth incarnatioin of Vishnu. Vishnu is one of the Triad Godheads of Hinduism the others being Brahma and Shiva. From this we can deduce that he is not the God of the Hindu people.

No, Krishna is just like how Jesus is to Christians. In the Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna explains how he is Vishnu, just in a form we can understand. He is outside the Cycle and isn't a new person, just a form we can understand. Krishna even shows Arjuana his true form as Vishnu/Brahman. This is basic Research. Jesus is the incarnation of God on earth for us mere mortals to understand. Krishna is the incarnation of VIshnu/Brahman on Earth. The term Christ ( I know English, but its origins are in sancrit) comes from Krishna. Krishna claimed he would come again, Jesus is basicly Krishna but without the blue body paint. They did practically the same thing. Gave the truth to how to become closer to God.

"Divination: In Christian theology, the attempt to supernaturally gain hidden (occult) knowledge about the future, through means seperate from the God of the Bible." - the concise guide to todays religions and spirituality by James K Walker. We cannot compare Joseph and Daniel and there interpretation of Dreams occult as the dreams and the interpretation came from God. Daniel was very clear that that God had told him the interpretation of the dreams and all glory went to God. Please read the book of Daniel to get further insight into how God was glorified.

So, is a loop hole? You can do magic, as long as you claim you did it with God? Got it, claim its a gift from God and you are set. I'll tell my Wicca friends this loop hole.

 

[Pard]

Lance,

Whoever Krishna is... you are both right... Krishna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lance, dream interpretation is not witchcraft, nor are gifts from God. I'd be careful, that is borderline blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Lance, dream interpretation is not witchcraft, nor are gifts from God.

Let me explain. The reason why your religion dosen't see it as magic, or witchcraft is because its from God Correct? Outsiders like myself who have taken sometime to study theology have noticed that its actually the same thing as everyone else is doing, you guys just hold it special because its from your God.

I'd be careful, that is borderline blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Its not blasphemy, because I'm just showing the common threads. I'm not stomping around telling people that God is evil or any such nonsense. I'm just showing how Dream Interpretation is a form of divination, its just that when its from your God, its special and not magic....or what ever you want to call it.

That's it. Its not an attack, just a comparison.

 

[Pard]

Oh, I don't fret over people attacking God, that is their choice, if they wish to tempt a Being who created it all, well that's their fault. I just was warning you that you were coming near a thin line of blaspheming God's spirit. You say you are well read in the Bible, so you know that is the only unforgivable sin. I'd hate for you to cross the line and then later down the road go to God. I just don't know what would happen, so I like to warn people when they came near it. Just a friendly reminder

I do understand what you are saying. For the sake of this, let's draw up the gifts from God...

Healing
Prophecy
Tongues
Interpretation (Of Prophecy and Tongues)
Teaching

I'm missing some, those are what I get off the top of my head.

 

[sparrow]

actually, the Spiritual gifts being from God is only a portion of the difference.
there is also the issue of their use being determined by God's will, not the
persons will.
One more tidbit before I run off... having experienced both, there is a different
'flavor' to magic than to the spiritual giftings.

mark

 

[jasoncran]

hmm i will chime in that part lance being that i could do things with ki and also see auras.

ki cant be same as the healing work of God as that person that does reiki gets the credit given to the lord. i can with ki meditate and get healed and so on and dont need a divinity to assist.

hmm Jesus never denied credit for healing men, just told others to keep it to themselves till the time was right. ki is all about what you as a person can attain even though to attian that one must deny self.

i will have to think about aruas and the related chakras.

 

[Strangelove]

SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 1- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING

[video=youtube;eBpw2oQrvMM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM[/video]

SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING
Shocking footage of one of the worst "invasions" of false spirits that the apostate church has ever seen. Proof that the apostate churches have been invaded by counterfeit spirits on a worldwide scale. This documentary is tracing this massive invasion - and showing the terrible impact it has had. Please share it with your friends.

Leaders and movements involved: todd bentley, lakeland revival, rick joyner, morningstar, toronto blessing, new mystics, john crowder, ihop, mike bickle, patricia king, false revival, the river, bob jones, john paul jackson, sid roth, chuck pierce, bill johnson, randy clark, peter wagner, dutch sheets

 

[Strangelove]

SHOCKING DOCUMENTARY 2- False spirits invade the church - KUNDALINI WARNING

[video=youtube;BCcGaTRwG_4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4[/video]

 

[Strangelove]

This thread disaapeared from my subscribed list too??

Hello? Testing 123.....

 

[Ed the Ned]

If Christians involved in this movement do not understand the dangers after seeing these two videos's then I would be at a loss for words. Rodney Howard Browne has come back to South Africa. I have been warning people about him for years. My father in law (now deceased) used to teach him at school, and told me long ago to beware of his teachings. My father in Law got his doctrite on a theseis he wrote on the dangers of the new age movement, it was years and years of study and prayer. So PLEASE those who are following this "Christian Guru" start praying for yourselves to be freed from this spirit.

 

[Strangelove]

If Christians involved in this movement do not understand the dangers after seeing these two videos's then I would be at a loss for words. Rodney Howard Browne has come back to South Africa. I have been warning people about him for years. My father in law (now deceased) used to teach him at school, and told me long ago to beware of his teachings. My father in Law got his doctrite on a theseis he wrote on the dangers of the new age movement, it was years and years of study and prayer. So PLEASE those who are following this "Christian Guru" start praying for yourselves to be freed from this spirit.

It's astounding that the churches didnt reject this Satanic porridge when they first saw it eh Ed?

24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​

Rodneys drunken ministries? Of God? I think not.

If anyone is wrapped up in this nonsense........RUN.......NOW!!

 

[Ed the Ned]

It's astounding that the churches didnt reject this Satanic porridge when they first saw it eh Ed?

24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​

Rodneys drunken ministries? Of God? I think not.

If anyone is wrapped up in this nonsense........RUN.......NOW!!

It has always made me feel angry that Christians would think that the holy spirit would suddenly change. I read that when Rodney went to the states he only had $300 to his name. Well he sure managed to increase on that through his false teachings and his Hindu spirit that has multiplied through his "ministry". He was born less than 120 Km from where I now live and grew up in the Transkei about 300km away where my father in law was a minister and teacher.
As christians we are told to discern the teachings of man against sound doctrine. Yet when you look at these "revivals" I only see Satan.

Thanks for the post Strangelove I hope many people will look at this.

 

[sherri2]

Genesis 37-50. its one of the most famous stories of the bible. There are musicals, kids movies, films, and books on just these sections alone. I can't believe you haven't heard of it.

Are there no bibles near you?


Nope, they are the same thing. Dream interpritation is a form of divination.

Here is the scripture banning it.
"There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer." - Deuteronomy 18:10-11 IT was in Deut not Leviticus, sorry.

Oh gosh. No dream interpretation, funny that.

And gen 37-50 has nothing to do with what you're claiming.

As I said. Scripture please. Oh look, you can't back yourself up.

I'd go on but I don't see the point.