Leaving Pro-Gay Theology For True Faith

[Riven]

No He hasn't, LoL. He is only assumed to have. The only difference is what I told you.

The assumption is made because he goes from "bash the babies heads against the rocks, slaughter your enemies in my name, and keep the virgin women as plunder!" to "love your enemies, don't be a dick."

Some do, but some are simply pointing out God's displeasure with homosexuality by using an Old Testament passage. Most use the New Testament ones.

Many do. It seems like they go out of their way. I think Christians think more about gay sex than gay people do. They certainly preach about it more. Lol.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Ok some conservative Christians are too gay focused especially on gay men. Not fun

 

[Free]

The assumption is made because he goes from "bash the babies heads against the rocks,

Which was descriptive, not prescriptive.

slaughter your enemies in my name,

Which was for a specific people (the Israelites), for a specific period in time (around 100 years, iirc), for a specific reason (judgement).

and keep the virgin women as plunder!" to "love your enemies, don't be a dick."

War was a brutal fact of life in the ancient world. What the Bible is getting at with those passages is that women who lost either their parents, if unmarried, or their husband in war, then women would be looked after. They couldn't marry her or have sex with her, and certainly couldn't rape her, until a period of mourning had passed. Even then, he could let her go wherever she wanted if he changed his mind. However, the whole time she was to be treated as a full-fledged wife and would be fully integrated into Hebrew society. This was no trivial matter.

And, yet, God hasn't changed. Just read Revelation--he will come again in vengeance and judgement. Even thoughts become sinful, not necessarily the physical act, because they precede the act. All he asks is that how humans treat each other be based on love, such as the Golden Rule. We love because he is love. Even then, false teachers and serious, unrepentant sinners in the Church are to face discipline, to the point, if necessary, of being expelled and handed over to Satan.

I think Christians think more about gay sex than gay people do.

I don't think they do. In another video, Beckett Cook talks about prior to being saved, that sex was the primary topic of discussion for he and his gay friends. They constantly talked about it. The issue is that in the current culture, all things LGBTQ+ are literally being forced on everyone. We've gone from a "pride" day to a whole month to different things throughout the year.

They certainly preach about it more. Lol.

As they should.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The assumption is made because he goes from "bash the babies heads against the rocks, slaughter your enemies in my name, and keep the virgin women as plunder!" to "love your enemies, don't be a dick."

The assumption is made because people have absolutely no clue, LoL.

Many do. It seems like they go out of their way. I think Christians think more about gay sex than gay people do. They certainly preach about it more. Lol.

I think many discuss it because the issue is constantly being jammed down people's throats. But then, too, some spend less time preaching on the word itself than on social issues. I find that boring and uninformed. I think it's why there are a lot of superficial Christians these days. I write Bible studies, and I cover the issue of homosexuality... maybe once out of every seventy five studies, and only as the issue actually comes up in scripture.

 

[Riven]

Which was descriptive, not prescriptive.

It's not the kind of thing a loving God would command someone to do to babies.

Which was for a specific people (the Israelites), for a specific period in time (around 100 years, iirc), for a specific reason (judgement).

Its war god type stuff. A perfect god should be above such things, not actively participating in it.

War was a brutal fact of life in the ancient world. What the Bible is getting at with those passages is that women who lost either their parents, if unmarried, or their husband in war, then women would be looked after. They couldn't marry her or have sex with her, and certainly couldn't rape her, until a period of mourning had passed. Even then, he could let her go wherever she wanted if he changed his mind. However, the whole time she was to be treated as a full-fledged wife and would be fully integrated into Hebrew society. This was no trivial matter.

Oh, yeah. I'm sure they were looked after. Probably several times a day by several different men. The Greeks used to foo the same thing and they had their own war god.

And, yet, God hasn't changed. Just read Revelation--he will come again in vengeance and judgement. Even thoughts become sinful, not necessarily the physical act, because they precede the act. All he asks is that how humans treat each other be based on love, such as the Golden Rule. We love because he is love. Even then, false teachers and serious, unrepentant sinners in the Church are to face discipline, to the point, if necessary, of being expelled and handed over to Satan.

But he has changed. He wasn't about turning the other cheek in the Old Testament.

I don't think they do. In another video, Beckett Cook talks about prior to being saved, that sex was the primary topic of discussion for he and his gay friends. They constantly talked about it. The issue is that in the current culture, all things LGBTQ+ are literally being forced on everyone. We've gone from a "pride" day to a whole month to different things throughout the year.

Christians talk about it all the time, too, and not just from the pulpit. The forcing of pride and LGBT stuff on people is a problem, I agree. I don't think it's right to force one's ideas about sexuality onto another.

As they should.

They might want to think twice. This pastor was as anti-gay as it gets. Turns out he's kinda gay himself. Tale as old as time. Lol.

Ted Haggard Says He's Bisexual

Pastor Linked to 2006 Scandal Involving a Male Prostitute and Drugs Discusses His Sexuality in GQ Magazine

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Riven]

The assumption is made because people have absolutely no clue, LoL.

Hey, I admit to not being well versed in scripture. But even I know the OT God was not all about love and turning the other cheek. It's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion.

I think many discuss it because the issue is constantly being jammed down people's throats. But then, too, some spend less time preaching on the word itself than on social issues. I find that boring and uninformed. I think it's why there are a lot of superficial Christians these days. I write Bible studies, and I cover the issue of homosexuality... maybe once out of every seventy five studies, and only as the issue actually comes up in scripture.

I agree. But I think they also enjoy sneering at the gays. It makes them feel good. Just don't look too close at their internet search history. Lol.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hey, I admit to not being well versed in scripture. But even I know the OT God was not all about love and turning the other cheek. It's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion.

The assumptions they make are that the Lord Jesus Christ is all peaches and cream, and nice little rainbows and happy unicorns. It's a fairy tale that has nothing to do with actual New Testament teaching.

I agree. But I think they also enjoy sneering at the gays. It makes them feel good. Just don't look too close at their internet search history. Lol.

Yes, Lol. Well the enemy unfortunately uses Christians in a lot of ways just like he uses unbelievers. The whole judgmentalism kick many get on is not of God. They would turn on their own brethren when given the chance, which is not of God either.

That said, the New Testament teachers adamantly warned against sexual sins in a whole variety of forms, especially adultery. And even many in the world still consider that to be hurtful thing to do to a faithful and trusting marriage partner, so the true teaching doesn't just focus on one thing. In fact, the rest of that passage in Romans goes on to give a very long list of sins that are condemned by the Lord:

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Free]

It's not the kind of thing a loving God would command someone to do to babies.

That's why I said it was descriptive, not prescriptive.

Its war god type stuff. A perfect god should be above such things, not actively participating in it.

Really? You don' think God should punish sin? You want a God of love but not a God who is just, but they're two sides of the same coin.

Gen 15:14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.
Gen 15:15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” (ESV)

Deu 9:3 Know therefore today that he who goes over before you as a consuming fire is the LORD your God. He will destroy them and subdue them before you. So you shall drive them out and make them perish quickly, as the LORD has promised you.
Deu 9:4 “Do not say in your heart, after the LORD your God has thrust them out before you, ‘It is because of my righteousness that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land,’ whereas it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you.
Deu 9:5 Not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart are you going in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations the LORD your God is driving them out from before you, and that he may confirm the word that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. (ESV)

The same went for the world in Noah's time, for Egypt after enslaving the Israelites for 400 years, and Sodom and Gomorrah. God is slow to anger but there comes a time when a nation, or person, has gone past the point of no return and faces his judgement.

Exo 34:6 The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness," (ESV)

Psa 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. (ESV)

Jon 4:2 And he prayed to the LORD and said, “O LORD, is not this what I said when I was yet in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarshish; for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and relenting from disaster. (ESV)

Oh, yeah. I'm sure they were looked after. Probably several times a day by several different men. The Greeks used to foo the same thing and they had their own war god.

Now you're moving the goal posts. If it's about what God commanded, rape was forbidden; sex outside of marriage was and is forbidden. If people disobeyed God, that's on them, not God.

What the Greeks did is irrelevant.

But he has changed. He wasn't about turning the other cheek in the Old Testament.

For a time, between the Israelites themselves, it was an eye for eye. But in the OT, he was establishing the Israelites and setting his people apart from the rest of the surrounding cultures. The laws he gave them were largely radically different and more humane than those of other cultures, but as they were still learning to live as the people of God, the laws were baby steps. When we get to the NT, things are taken further.

God hasn't changed and what he requires of us hasn't changed. But with Christ's death and resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, it now enables us to actually live as we are supposed to live. The command to turn the other cheek wouldn't have worked otherwise. In a sense, perhaps, Christ's death was God turning the other cheek.

Christians talk about it all the time, too, and not just from the pulpit.

I don't know of a single Christian who talks about it. The only time is from the pulpit.

The forcing of pride and LGBT stuff on people is a problem, I agree. I don't think it's right to force one's ideas about sexuality onto another.

The Then you're not loving your neighbour. Unrepentant sexual sin, and particularly homosexuality, leads to death. To not say anything

They might want to think twice. This pastor was as anti-gay as it gets. Turns out he's kinda gay himself. Tale as old as time. Lol.

Ted Haggard Says He's Bisexual

Pastor Linked to 2006 Scandal Involving a Male Prostitute and Drugs Discusses His Sexuality in GQ Magazine

www.cbsnews.com

Yeah, that was quite the story at the time. If a pastor neglects to speak out about the sin of homosexuality, as with any sin, he is not teaching the entire counsel of God, and that is sin in itself.

 

[Riven]

The assumptions they make are that the Lord Jesus Christ is all peaches and cream, and nice little rainbows and happy unicorns. It's a fairy tale that has nothing to do with actual New Testament teaching.

Well, I don't think it's like that, but he's clearly not all about butchering people anymore in the NT.

Yes, Lol. Well the enemy unfortunately uses Christians in a lot of ways just like he uses unbelievers. The whole judgmentalism kick many get on is not of God. They would turn on their own brethren when given the chance, which is not of God either.

That said, the New Testament teachers adamantly warned against sexual sins in a whole variety of forms, especially adultery. And even many in the world still consider that to be hurtful thing to do to a faithful and trusting marriage partner, so the true teaching doesn't just focus on one thing.

I agree. Adultery effects gay people as well if their partner cheats on them.

In fact, the rest of that passage in Romans goes on to give a very long list of sins that are condemned by the Lord:

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Boy. I bet this guy was the life of the party. Lol.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, I don't think it's like that, but he's clearly not all about butchering people anymore in the NT.

It wasn't all about butchering people back then. It's the same God throughout, and there are so many proofs for this that I would literally be working for days showing you, and I don't have the time or energy right now. Just trust me that the typical argument people parrot like in Post #21 is based in never never land. I regard you as intelligent enough to grasp more than that, so maybe we can cover it some day, but most people I've ever seen try to run that argument by others wouldn't know enough about the Bible to save their lives in a church nursery, and really shouldn't be commenting on subjects they have zero education about.

 

[Riven]

That's why I said it was descriptive, not prescriptive.

Fair enough.

Really? You don' think God should punish sin? You want a God of love but not a God who is just, but they're two sides of the same coin.

Not if it means otherwise good people have to suffer. Why should a person that happens to be gay be punished the same way as a rapist or a serial killer is punished? How is that just?

Imagine if the United States operated this way. Someone gets pulled over and they have an ounce of weed in the car. Well, sonny, your doomed because illegal possession is just as bad as capital murder. It's the death penalty for you, pal! ⚰

It's stupid. That's the problem with this system. It's just stupid! It sounds more like something dreamed up in the mind's of men that lived 2,000 years ago, not a well thought out plan handed down from a divine being.

Gen 15:14 But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.
Gen 15:15 As for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 And they shall come back here in the fourth generation, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” (ESV)

Deu 9:3 Know therefore today that he who goes over before you as a consuming fire is the LORD your God. He will destroy them and subdue them before you. So you shall drive them out and make them perish quickly, as the LORD has promised you.
Deu 9:4 “Do not say in your heart, after the LORD your God has thrust them out before you, ‘It is because of my righteousness that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land,’ whereas it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you.
Deu 9:5 Not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart are you going in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations the LORD your God is driving them out from before you, and that he may confirm the word that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. (ESV)

The same went for the world in Noah's time, for Egypt after enslaving the Israelites for 400 years, and Sodom and Gomorrah. God is slow to anger but there comes a time when a nation, or person, has gone past the point of no return and faces his judgement.

Exo 34:6 The LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness," (ESV)

Psa 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. (ESV)

Jon 4:2 And he prayed to the LORD and said, “O LORD, is not this what I said when I was yet in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarshish; for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and relenting from disaster. (ESV)

Yeah. Well, you know, North Korea is still standing. Why hasn't God destroyed it yet? What's her waiting for? Why is Kim Jong Un always happy? Lol.

Now you're moving the goal posts. If it's about what God commanded, rape was forbidden; sex outside of marriage was and is forbidden. If people disobeyed God, that's on them, not God.

What the Greeks did is irrelevant.

I know. But you know that sort of thing probably happened. Female prisoners of war tend to not be treated with much respect even today.

For a time, between the Israelites themselves, it was an eye for eye. But in the OT, he was establishing the Israelites and setting his people apart from the rest of the surrounding cultures. The laws he gave them were largely radically different and more humane than those of other cultures, but as they were still learning to live as the people of God, the laws were baby steps. When we get to the NT, things are taken further.

I mean, couldn't be have just commanded them not to do those things? Hey, I know it's a lot to ask, but maybe on the next raid, lets try to not bash the skulls of infants on the sharp rocks, okay? Baby steps.

God hasn't changed and what he requires of us hasn't changed. But with Christ's death and resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, it now enables us to actually live as we are supposed to live. The command to turn the other cheek wouldn't have worked otherwise. In a sense, perhaps, Christ's death was God turning the other cheek.

Hmm... that very well could be.

I don't know of a single Christian who talks about it. The only time is from the pulpit.

Well, a lot of them are wound pretty tight, you know? In evangelical circles, sex itself is seen as kind of taboo. Only the pastor can talk about it. Because then we're not talking about it, he's talking about it, that's HIS problem. Lol.

The Then you're not loving your neighbour. Unrepentant sexual sin, and particularly homosexuality, leads to death. To not say anything

Well, they're probably aware of the Christian position on homosexuality. Especially if they live in the United States.

Yeah, that was quite the story at the time. If a pastor neglects to speak out about the sin of homosexuality, as with any sin, he is not teaching the entire counsel of God, and that is sin in itself.

Aye, it was. What was more interesting to me though was his wife's reaction. Or rather, lack of reaction. You see, most wives, especially if they're evangelical Christian, would react rather poorly to the news that their husband is having sexual relations with other men.

But she didn't. At all. In fact, she doubled down in support of him. No divorce, nothing, and I have a theory as to why. She's into it. It makes perfect sense. They probably have gay sex orgies after church every Sunday.

That's how these mega church pastors and their wives operate. They don't actually believe in any of this stuff. They're only in it for the money. You become a multi-millionaire and your buisness is tax empt. It's brilliant.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Maybe he's happy he looks so stunning in white, with a flat top you could fly carrier jets off of.