Legalsim....a Bad Thing ?

[Jay T]

Interesting that when a Christian hears anything about the law of God...the cry of 'legalism' erupts.

Had the Christian read the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, would they have noticed that the subject of God Law, was the reocurring theme throughout ?

Remember that the commandment of God was broken by Adam & Eve ?
How many understand that the Gospel started, as a result of the broken Law of God ?

The Gospel is, to bringing mankind back...into the keeping of the Law of God as scripture says.....

Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

The Gospel, is about Jesus Christ dying to remove our past sins, and giving us the ability to not, break the Law of God again, which is called GRACE.

To accuse anyone of 'legalsim'...is to accuse Jesus Christ of the same thing !

John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".

Keeping all 10 commandments cannot be separated from...love to Jesus Christ.
And, that includes the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)....because Jesus taught it and He kept it Himself.

 

[Drew]

Greetings JayT:

I agree with what you are saying. However, I think that one can still be legalistic in a bad way and I will try to explain below.

In a number of other threads, I have made the admittedly controversial argument that, yes, we are called to obey God's written law (e.g. the 10 commandments) but that even God's laws are subject to "situational interpretation". In other words, there are always exceptions - even to God's Laws. For example, there are times when it is not sin to lie.

I base this view on the content of Matthew 12:1-14, a passage which I think shows Jesus teaching that even God's "laws" (such as the Sabbath law) have exceptions. In short, I think that the world that God has created is so complex that even God cannot create hard and fast rules that always apply without qualification.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Balance and a clear understanding of the word of God is the key. While it is CLEARLY taught that there are expectations and rules that we are to govern our lives by, we must not rely on those actions to get us to God's kingdom. Only Jesus can make that happen but we access that through a covenant with Him and part of that covenant is to follow and obey Him. He came to fulfill the law and in doing so made it possible for our feeble efforts to be made perfect in Him. But we are commanded to do certain things.

It is a shame that the modern creed church has taken things so far out of focus that when the word "works" is mentioned they freak out and cry legalism. How many times in the New Testament do we hear Jesus telling someone to obey His commands?

 

[Windozer]

The Gospel, is about Jesus Christ dying to remove our past sins, and giving us the ability to not, break the Law of God again, which is called GRACE.

Well Jay I have got news for you. All of your sins were in the future when Jesus died for you. At that time you had no past sins to be forgiven of.

I will believe that one when you no longer have a need to ask Jesus to forgive you. In other words I will believe that when you are able to obtain righteousness apart from accepting the righteousness of Christ.

Good luck with that?

 

[homewardbound]

The ten commandments aren't rocket science, and obeying them has nothing to do with legalism.

Legalism is an attitude that places undue emphasis on what man does or doesn't do. I think most of us recognize when we or a friend or loved one crosses that line. The commandments are what they say they are, and those of us who profess to be Christians should strive to obey them. But we need to remember they're a standard of behavior, not a criteria for judgement. If anyone uses them as a way to merit favor with God, to compare themselves with others, or to think that strict adherence somehow secures their salvation, that's when we get into trouble.

 

[Jay T]

The ten commandments aren't rocket science, and obeying them has nothing to do with legalism.

Legalism is an attitude that places undue emphasis on what man does or doesn't do. I think most of us recognize when we or a friend or loved one crosses that line. The commandments are what they say they are, and those of us who profess to be Christians should strive to obey them. But we need to remember they're a standard of behavior, not a criteria for judgement.

AH....but the 10 commandments are, the standard for the Judgment Day of God (Eccl. 12:13,14.....James 2:10-12).

How can God Judge anyone unless there is a standard, by which to go by ?

And, that standard must be something everyone can see to measure themselves by, in regards to living the Righteous life God expects of us.

If anyone uses them as a way to merit favor with God, to compare themselves with others, or to think that strict adherence somehow secures their salvation, that's when we get into trouble.

Have you ever read Revelation 22:14 ?

Rev. 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
And guess what ?
There is a people who do just that....keep the commandments of God.....
Rev. 4:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".

Why do they do so....to earn favor with God ?
NO ! NO!
They love Jesus Christ.....
"IF...you love me...keep my commandments", (John 14:15).

 

[Catlover]

Interesting that when a Christian hears anything about the law of God...the cry of 'legalism' erupts.

Had the Christian read the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, would they have noticed that the subject of God Law, was the reocurring theme throughout ?

Remember that the commandment of God was broken by Adam & Eve ?
How many understand that the Gospel started, as a result of the broken Law of God ?

The Gospel is, to bringing mankind back...into the keeping of the Law of God as scripture says.....

Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

The Gospel, is about Jesus Christ dying to remove our past sins, and giving us the ability to not, break the Law of God again, which is called GRACE.

To accuse anyone of 'legalsim'...is to accuse Jesus Christ of the same thing !

John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".

Keeping all 10 commandments cannot be separated from...love to Jesus Christ.
And, that includes the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)....because Jesus taught it and He kept it Himself.

Well, in James it does state faith without works being dead. It's true. There is more to being a Christian than saying one prayer and then saying one is a Christian. There must be some fruit or works.

 

[Jay T]

Interesting that when a Christian hears anything about the law of God...the cry of 'legalism' erupts.

Had the Christian read the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, would they have noticed that the subject of God Law, was the reocurring theme throughout ?

Remember that the commandment of God was broken by Adam & Eve ?
How many understand that the Gospel started, as a result of the broken Law of God ?

The Gospel is, to bringing mankind back...into the keeping of the Law of God as scripture says.....

Eccl. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

The Gospel, is about Jesus Christ dying to remove our past sins, and giving us the ability to not, break the Law of God again, which is called GRACE.

To accuse anyone of 'legalsim'...is to accuse Jesus Christ of the same thing !

John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".

Keeping all 10 commandments cannot be separated from...love to Jesus Christ.
And, that includes the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)....because Jesus taught it and He kept it Himself.

Well, in James it does state faith without works being dead. It's true. There is more to being a Christian than saying one prayer and then saying one is a Christian. There must be some fruit or works.

I believe Jesus said it best:
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[Geo]

There is a general BIG misunderstanding between Legalism vs.Obedience

These are not my words, they express it quite well though:

Not that you are obedient so that you can receive grace, mercy, and salvation.
You will never be able to do it. It will never happen no matter how hard you try if
this your motive. This is Legalism.

But that your obedience is proof of your total and all consuming Love for our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ. Or to put it another way, no one with this total and all
consuming Love for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, would ever be disobedient
or Him or His Father. This is Obedience.

“If you love me, obey my commandments.” Jesus - John 14:15

Legalism is anything a person does in order to get to heaven or receive salvation,
or as if under Law. Motive - That is the difference- Motive!

If Jesus is the all consuming love and desire of your Heart, than you prefer to live every
second of your life as a slave and servant according to the desire of your Master Jesus
Christ. People who have this all consuming love are meticulously obedient to their Master
and lover of their soul Jesus Christ. True Christians are obedient out of their Faith, true love
and desire to please Jesus even at their own personal expense or personal suffering,
Obedience) not out of their will to get into heaven alone, or in order to receive salvation
or as a task one must do, or as a chore, or as if under Law.(Legalism)

“If you love me, obey my commandments.” John 14:15

“trying to make yourselves right” (Legalism) “saved by keeping the law” .(Legalism)
“choose to obey...your master” (Obedience)“obeyed with all your heart” (Obedience)
“slaves to your new master, righteousness” (Obedience)

"So why do you call me `Lord,' when you won't obey me?” Luke 6:46

“He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke11:28

--------------------

My comment: I think the problem with the disobedient that call themselves Christians
is, they really do not understand "the business of their master". They themselves have
a legalistic attitude that separates them from a fruitful relationship, and all that is left
is something what could be classified as "liberal christianity" -- if there would be such
a thing. It's legalism that includes "love on paper" that doesn't come to actual reality
paired with a "so what?" attitude, counting on God's mercy that won't do what Donald
Trump would do when an apprentice keeps their version of reality, and say "you're fired".

Take it from Paul as a patient pointer to "legalistic rebels":

But no, you won't listen. So you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself because
of your stubbornness in refusing to turn from your sin. For there is going to come a day
of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, will judge all people according to
what they have done. He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good,
seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. But he will pour out his
anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and practice
evil deeds. There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning.

Meaning of the word 'everyone' : Every one, All people, everybody

 

[Lyric's Dad]

While it is purely the grace of Jesus Christ that saves us, we are also told that we will be given rewards pertaining to our works. I for one would like to achieve all that the Father has in store to give to me.

 

[Jay T]

While it is purely the grace of Jesus Christ that saves us, we are also told that we will be given rewards pertaining to our works. I for one would like to achieve all that the Father has in store to give to me.

This is also to be considered.....
Revelation 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city".

 

[Terral]

We are Under Grace And NOT Under Mosaic Law

Hi Jay T:

Thank you for starting this thread on this important topic.

Jay T >> Interesting that when a Christian hears anything about the law of God...the cry of 'legalism' erupts.

To be more accurate, when a Christian hears other Christians trying to drag his brothers back under ‘Mosaic’ Law, then the cry of “Legalism†most certainly erupts. Paul is the one leading the charge against “some of our number†(Acts 15:24 = disturbing Galatians 1:6-7) adding circumcision to our Gospel. You can break down the “law of God†into anything you like, but dragging others back under Mosaic Law is something else entirely.

Jay T >> Had the Christian read the whole Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, would they have noticed that the subject of God Law, was the reocurring theme throughout ?

Paul says that the Gentiles are ‘without the Law’ in Romans 2:14-15 AND that we are under grace and not under law in Romans 6:14. Paul is the steward of this ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Ephesians 3:2) given to him for us ‘Gentiles.’ Running back to the Old Testament to see how the Lord God is dealing with Israel under Mosaic Law does not place ‘us’ into the position of obeying those 600+ ordinances.

Jay T >> Remember that the commandment of God was broken by Adam & Eve ? How many understand that the Gospel started, as a result of the broken Law of God ? The Gospel is, to bringing mankind back...into the keeping of the Law of God as scripture says..... (snip Eccl. 12:13-14)

What?? You are willing to run back into the Old Testament and pretend that those for whom Christ died are placed back under the ‘tutor’ (Galatians 3:23-25)?? Paul teaches that even keeping the Sabbath (one of the ten commandments) is a mere ‘shadow’ of things to come (Colossians 2:16-17). I am very interested in knowing just how much of Mosaic Law you are willing to force on everyone else who was crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) with lives hidden with Christ in God (Colossians 3:1-3 (3)).

Jay T >> The Gospel, is about Jesus Christ dying to remove our past sins, and giving us the ability to not, break the Law of God again, which is called GRACE.

What? God’s ‘grace’ (charis #5485) is the ‘merciful kindness’ (Strong’s = http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/ ... -6464.html) or unmerited ‘Divine favor’ (Vines) bestowed upon those believing our Gospel. We are introduced to that ‘grace’ through the ‘faith’ (Romans 5:1-2) that comes by ‘hearing’ (Romans 10:17) the gospel in the first place. Paul teaches that Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyone who believes (Romans 10:4). The righteousness of God was manifested ‘apart from the Law’ (Romans 3:21-22) and by faith apart from works (Romans 4:4-6). Running back to Ecclesiastes to talk about keeping the “Law of God†makes very little sense indeed.

Jay T >> To accuse anyone of 'legalsim'...is to accuse Jesus Christ of the same thing !

Please . . . Those trying to corrupt Paul’s Galatian church with circumcision were said to be ‘accursed.’ Galatians 1:8-9. Christ teaches that Jews in the Four Gospels were to ‘keep the commandments’ to ‘obtain eternal life’ (Matthew 16:16-17). He taught that the Law would remain, until heaven and earth pass away. Matthew 5:18. That is the hallmark of one teaching Legalism, but He was sent to Israel only (Matthew 15:24) who were all indeed under Mosaic Law. Paul addresses those called “Jews†under the Law beginning in Romans 2:17, saying,

“But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God, and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal?†Romans 2:17-21.

However, Paul concludes with the Old Testament that “There is NONE righteous, not even one†(Romans 3:10) and that “whatever the Law says, it speaks to those WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW . . .†(Romans 3:19). Does that include those for whom Christ died? NO! There are over 600 ordinances of Mosaic Law and the Gentiles are bound and chained by NONE OF THEM. Paul teaches that the Law is the ‘tutor’ that leads us to Christ (Galatians 3:24) and that now that faith has come that we are “NO LONGER under the tutor.†Galatians 3:25. This is why I am very interested in seeing just how much ‘under the tutor’ you would like to place us.

Jay T >> John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".

Has Christ died for anyone in John 15? No. How are you defining the phrase “My commandments?†Paul says that the things he writes to us are the “Lord’s Commandment.†1 Corinthians 14:37-38. He teaches these same Corinthians, saying,

“Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake; FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS (Psalm 24:1). If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake.†1 Corinthians 10:25-27.

“Anything†includes all of the things “Mosaic Law†says Israel is not to eat. Paul is using the Old Testament to prove that we are NOT under the tutor any longer. How are you deciding which OT laws to follow and which to ignore?

Jay T >> Keeping all 10 commandments cannot be separated from...love to Jesus Christ. And, that includes the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11)....because Jesus taught it and He kept it Himself.

Christ was sent to Israel only (Matthew 15:24) in the Four Gospels and He teaches obedience to ALL of Mosaic Law (Matthew 5:18). Let’s not pretend that you are doing that today. Secondly, Paul teaches against the command to keep the Sabbath in Colossians 2:16-17, because those things are mere ‘shadows’ of things to come. Of course we are to obey the governing authorities (Romans 13:1-3) and not ‘covet’ and so on, but you are teaching directly against the “Lord’s Commandment†(1 Corinthians 14:37-38) that Christ Himself gave to Paul through the “visions and revelations of the Lord.†2 Corinthins 12:1. The question becomes “which†of the Lord’s Commands you are going to follow. Are you going to follow those given to Israel of the flesh in the Old Testament OR those commands given to Paul for us today from our risen Lord in heaven? There is NO WAY that you can follow BOTH!

Running back into Exodus is NOT what Paul has in mind, because we are under GRACE and not under law (Romans 6:14). If you are seeking to be justified by keeping the Law, then you must keep the ‘WHOLE LAW.’ Galatians 5:3.

Thank you again for starting this thread.

In Christ Jesus and NOT under law,

Terral

 

[cj]

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city".

Revelation 22:14 has nothing to do with the law JayT. It has to do with believing in the blood of Jesus and receiving its atonement.


JayT, take a look at all the times the word prophets was used in this chapter and then tell me waht is "missing" from around it. What don't you see that is usually seen when the word prophets is used in NT scriptures?


In love,
cj

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city".

Revelation 22:14 has nothing to do with the law JayT. It has to do with believing in the blood of Jesus and receiving its atonement.


JayT, take a look at all the times the word prophets was used in this chapter and then tell me waht is "missing" from around it. What don't you see that is usually seen when the word prophets is used in NT scriptures?


In love,
cj

WHAT? :o

It says very clearly that they "DO HIS COMMANDMENTS." This is not saying they do anything but obey.

I have long heard the prooftexting of the Bible that makes such things as the unpardonable sin out to be not accepting Jesus and the only thing that will "damn" one to be not saying the sinners prayer. It is ludicrous. We should not come to the Bible with a pre-conceived theology in mind and then make it fit. It should be the other way around.

The Bible is clear that we must DO the will of God.

I will accept it.

 

[cj]

WHAT?

Quick one,.... be slow and take a closer look at the words used and use, particularly in relation to the context of the surrounding speaking of Christ and the context of the book of Revelation on a whole.

Don't just take things for granted.

It says very clearly that they "DO HIS COMMANDMENTS." This is not saying they do anything but obey.

And so should we be slaying animals and giving tithes to the Levites?

Our should we be loving God with His love and loving our neighbor with His love?

I have long heard the prooftexting of the Bible that makes such things as the unpardonable sin out to be not accepting Jesus and the only thing that will "damn" one to be not saying the sinners prayer. It is ludicrous. We should not come to the Bible with a pre-conceived theology in mind and then make it fit. It should be the other way around.

Then why have you done this?

The Bible is clear that we must DO the will of God.

Just as it is clear that we are unable to do the will of God.

So then what?

I will accept it.

"It",.... what is this "it" that you accepted through veiled eyes with part truth?


Lyrics Dad,... just accept out of trust, don't be like Thomas and require the seeing of an "it".


In love,
cj

 

[Solo]

While it is purely the grace of Jesus Christ that saves us, we are also told that we will be given rewards pertaining to our works. I for one would like to achieve all that the Father has in store to give to me.

The grace of God is extended to all, but only those who have faith will be saved. Receiving the free gift of grace is done through faith. Without faith there is no salvation. Hebrews 11 is an excellent chapter on faith.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained F5 that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

[Windozer]

To be more accurate, when a Christian hears other Christians trying to drag his brothers back under ‘Mosaic’ Law.

I don't see how that is possible. No one in their right mind would allow themselves to be dragged back under a burden as huge as that. For those who have experienced first hand, and understood what Gods Grace really means to them. It simply won't happen.

I don't have a problem with those of you who like to insist that we need to obey (or be controlled by) the Mosaic law, as long as I still have the freedom to choose for myself, it is no skin off my back. Does not hurt me in the least.

Fill your boots Just don't expect me to believe you have ever achieved obedience to it.

As for me I will continue to enjoy everything that Gods Grace will provide for me. It has sure made my life a lot better, and I don't plan on losing it.

Now...Grace and peace to you all from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Drew]

As I have argued in other threads, the idea that we do not have an obligation to try to follow the law is based on not carefully thinking out the consequences of living a life of love as Jesus commands us to do. Understandably, people may argue that our actions in the world should be driven by the principles of love as set forth in Jesus statement about "loving God and your neighbour" as being the underlying essence of the law. This is true. But it is not the whole picture

However, and this is the key point, the identification of a principle that undergirds or explains the law, is not a sufficient justification for abandoning conformance to the law. It could well turn out that the law turns out to be real-world manifestation of this principle. And in fact, I believe this to be the case.

Suppose that there were "laws" about cooking - what ingredients, how they should be mixed, how long they should be heated, etc., etc.

Then someone comes along and says that the principle of producing nutritious and tasty food is the principle on which all these cooking laws hang. Does this mean we can meet this principle by baking up a rubber boot, or baking a chicken for 30 hours, or by adding some asbestos as seasoning? Of course not.

So we are not really free of the obligation to follow the cooking rules after - they are simple the practical manifestation of the more general principle.

 

[Drew]

Just to clarify my position. People can obey "laws" for either of the following 2 reasons:

1. They feel a heavy, oppressive sense of obligation to follow the law. They do not understand the reasons for the laws and therefore see the law as a burden to be borne.

2. They understand that the law is the practical manifestation of love - that the law is what love works out to be in the real world. Being motivated to act lovingly themselves, they gladly obey the dictates of the law.

I am suggesting the we need to have reason #2 in our hearts and minds as we obey the law. But I see no reason why we should not continue to obey the law.

 

[Terral]

We Are Saved By God's Grace Through Faith Apart From Works

Hi Windozer:

Thank you for helping to highlight this point.

Terral Original >> To be more accurate, when a Christian hears other Christians trying to drag his brothers back under ‘Mosaic’ Law.

Windozer >> I don't see how that is possible. No one in their right mind would allow themselves to be dragged back under a burden as huge as that. For those who have experienced first hand, and understood what Gods Grace really means to them. It simply won't happen.

Paul’s entire letter to the Galatians is over false brethren sneaking in to add works to the gospel and bring the entire church to ruin. That is why Paul had to go up and submit “the gospel I preach among the Gentiles†(Galatians 2:2) in the first place. And, that is exactly what Wavy is doing on this Board. You do not appear to understand how easy folks are deceived and tricked by such testimony among some sects of professing Messianic Jews. How many works does it take to defile the simplicity of the cross and make ‘void’ (1 Corinthians 1:17) that power to save? Just one! The wickedness of dragging others under Mosaic Law is that eventually they add one of those works to the gospel itself and that cuts off the entire assembly trying to be justified by those same works. Galatians 5:1-5 (Galatians 5:4).

Windozer >> I don't have a problem with those of you who like to insist that we need to obey (or be controlled by) the Mosaic law, as long as I still have the freedom to choose for myself, it is no skin off my back. Does not hurt me in the least.

Do you think for one minute that Paul was affected by those false brethren disturbing the Galatians (Galatians 2:4)?? Examine yourself and your doctrine carefully, because the sinister nature of the beast is to try and add just one work to our gospel that must be accepted by faith apart from works. Ephesians 2:8-9. This is an attack NOT of your personal salvation, but upon your testimony to force you into preaching a false gospel by adding just one work to the salvation process. How many realize that the ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ is just another false gospel? When you say “Just do this . . . Pray after me . . .,†then you are telling the hearer TO WORK for his own salvation. No sir. You preach the message of truth (Ephesians 1:13) and the hearer either places himself into the position of obedience (hearing = Romans 10:17) or he does not. There are no prayers to recite or any other work involved besides hearing and believing (Ephesians 1:13-14).

Windozer >> Fill your boots Just don't expect me to believe you have ever achieved obedience to it. As for me I will continue to enjoy everything that Gods Grace will provide for me. It has sure made my life a lot better, and I don't plan on losing it.

You sound to be on the right path of hearing the gospel apart from works. Thank you again for writing,

In Christ Jesus by faith apart from works,

Terral