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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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†. John 6:53 . . Jesus said to them: I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
The kind of life about which the Bible's Jesus spoke in the 6th chapter of John isn't vegetable life, nor beast life, nor angel life, nor insect life, nor demon life, nor sea life, nor bird life, nor reptile life, nor human life, nor alien life. No, none of those. The kind of life about which he spoke in the 6th chapter of John was eternal life.
†. John 6:54 . .Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life.
Note the grammatical tense of the Lord's "has" verb. It's present tense rather than future, indicating that people who correctly dine upon the Lord's flesh, and correctly imbibe his blood, are granted eternal life the instant they do so-- no delay and no waiting period.
The ramifications of the Lord's statement are astounding because eternal life is a kind of life that's impervious to death. So then, once the eaters of his flesh, and the drinkers of his blood have eternal life, they can never lose it; which means: they only have to dine upon his flesh and imbibe his blood just one time and one time only-- which is very different from the daily requirements of Yhvh's people who subsisted on manna. They couldn't get by on just one dose of manna but had to gather it every day to feed themselves or risk dying of starvation because human life isn't impervious to death like eternal life is.
†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish
You know what the Lord's statement says to me? It says to me that people passing themselves off as his followers, while not possessing eternal life, have not only yet to correctly ingest his flesh and blood; but they're not even his sheep. In point of fact, according to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son; people passing themselves off as the Lord's followers, while not possessing eternal life, are in indeed quite christless.
†. 1John 5:11-12 . . And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life; whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.
A christless Christian is in very grave danger of eternal suffering.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
BTW : Jesus had eternal life.
†. John 5:26 . . As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in himself.
†. 1John 1:2 . .The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
He was also an authorized distributor.
†. John 17:2 . .You have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as You have given him.
Yet Jesus wasn't impervious to death; which indicates to me that eternal life isn't synonymous with immortality.
Cliff
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†. John 6:53 . . Jesus said to them: I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
The kind of life about which the Bible's Jesus spoke in the 6th chapter of John isn't vegetable life, nor beast life, nor angel life, nor insect life, nor demon life, nor sea life, nor bird life, nor reptile life, nor human life, nor alien life. No, none of those. The kind of life about which he spoke in the 6th chapter of John was eternal life.
†. John 6:54 . .Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life.
Note the grammatical tense of the Lord's "has" verb. It's present tense rather than future, indicating that people who correctly dine upon the Lord's flesh, and correctly imbibe his blood, are granted eternal life the instant they do so-- no delay and no waiting period.
The ramifications of the Lord's statement are astounding because eternal life is a kind of life that's impervious to death. So then, once the eaters of his flesh, and the drinkers of his blood have eternal life, they can never lose it; which means: they only have to dine upon his flesh and imbibe his blood just one time and one time only-- which is very different from the daily requirements of Yhvh's people who subsisted on manna. They couldn't get by on just one dose of manna but had to gather it every day to feed themselves or risk dying of starvation because human life isn't impervious to death like eternal life is.
†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish
You know what the Lord's statement says to me? It says to me that people passing themselves off as his followers, while not possessing eternal life, have not only yet to correctly ingest his flesh and blood; but they're not even his sheep. In point of fact, according to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son; people passing themselves off as the Lord's followers, while not possessing eternal life, are in indeed quite christless.
†. 1John 5:11-12 . . And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life; whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.
A christless Christian is in very grave danger of eternal suffering.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
BTW : Jesus had eternal life.
†. John 5:26 . . As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in himself.
†. 1John 1:2 . .The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
He was also an authorized distributor.
†. John 17:2 . .You have given him authority over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as You have given him.
Yet Jesus wasn't impervious to death; which indicates to me that eternal life isn't synonymous with immortality.
Cliff
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God's_gift
Member
i have heared it before but i can't remember who said it, that Eternity grows and Immortality remains the same.....
W
Webers_Home
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Just to be a pill one time I asked a fan of transubstantiation if the flesh he ate at communion was dead or alive? Well; he scoffed and said it was a stupid question. But is it?
†. Gen 9:4 . .You must not, however, eat flesh with its life-blood in it.
As I see it: that restriction doesn't cover raw meats like sushi and/or steak tartare, et al; but covers meats that haven't mortified yet. In other words: the meat is still alive.
A hunter's freshly-killed mule deer might be brain dead, and its heart may have stopped beating, but its flesh will remain alive for some time by reason of the viable blood still in its veins. Recent changes to CPR procedures include delaying mouth-to-mouth respiration for the first few minutes because the blood in a victim's system still contains useful oxygen that can save their life merely by pumping the chest.
Point being, the Bible's Christ rose from the dead immortal (Rom 6:9). So then, any of his transubstantiated flesh would be alive upon arrival since an immortal body is impervious to death; viz: transubstantiation runs seriously contrary to Gen 9:4.
Cliff
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Just to be a pill one time I asked a fan of transubstantiation if the flesh he ate at communion was dead or alive? Well; he scoffed and said it was a stupid question. But is it?
†. Gen 9:4 . .You must not, however, eat flesh with its life-blood in it.
As I see it: that restriction doesn't cover raw meats like sushi and/or steak tartare, et al; but covers meats that haven't mortified yet. In other words: the meat is still alive.
A hunter's freshly-killed mule deer might be brain dead, and its heart may have stopped beating, but its flesh will remain alive for some time by reason of the viable blood still in its veins. Recent changes to CPR procedures include delaying mouth-to-mouth respiration for the first few minutes because the blood in a victim's system still contains useful oxygen that can save their life merely by pumping the chest.
Point being, the Bible's Christ rose from the dead immortal (Rom 6:9). So then, any of his transubstantiated flesh would be alive upon arrival since an immortal body is impervious to death; viz: transubstantiation runs seriously contrary to Gen 9:4.
Cliff
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W
Webers_Home
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I once heard a Bible teacher say: When the literal sense makes sense; seek no other sense.
Well; this is one of those cases where the literal sense not only makes no sense; but it's downright contrary to the scriptures recorded at Gen 9:3-4, Lev 7:26-27, and Acts 15:19-21.
In other words: there is no kosher human blood in the Bible-- in point of fact: there is no blood whatsoever approved for human consumption in the Bible, let alone human; not even Christ's.
Our first hint that the Lord was speaking rather strangely beginning at John 6:26 and continuing all the way down to 6:63, is his statement below:
†. John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit
The words that people speak among themselves are natural words rather than spirit words. What I'm getting at is that spirit words are supernatural. Therefore spirit words cannot be properly understood by a natural mind.
The curious thing about spirit words is that I can read them in my own language; and I can even look them up in a Webster's dictionary. However, spirit words don't say what I think they say. No, on the contrary-- though spirit words speak in my own language, they invariably leave me with the wrong impression because my mind doesn't comprehend spirit words: my mind only comprehends natural words; which is why I have to laugh sometimes when people say something like "the plain teachings of the word of God". Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw. Plain teachings? Many of those so-called "plain teachings" are spirit. Good luck nailing those down without a supernatural-to-natural translator.
So then, where am I going with this? Well; the natural impression one gets from John 6:26 down to John 6:63 is that people must literally dine upon the Lord's flesh and blood in order to obtain eternal life. But that's human thought reacting to spirit words. Had the Lord's words been expressed in human thought rather than spirit thought; then yes, we'd all have to dine upon his flesh and blood in order to obtain eternal life. So my next question is not is there a doctor in the house; but is there a spirit-to-human translator in the house to tell us what that mysterious passage is really saying?
You know, it would really be nice if every new Bible came packaged with an enigma machine, sort of like the one the Germans used in the second world war to decipher their coded messages because there are secrets locked in the Bible that no human mind, no matter what its IQ, is even aware of; let alone able to translate into human comprehension.
†. 1Cor 2:13-14 . .This is what we speak-- not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit-- expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are absurd to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I suspect that a pretty good number of us when we discuss the Bible are sort of like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.
Cliff
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I once heard a Bible teacher say: When the literal sense makes sense; seek no other sense.
Well; this is one of those cases where the literal sense not only makes no sense; but it's downright contrary to the scriptures recorded at Gen 9:3-4, Lev 7:26-27, and Acts 15:19-21.
In other words: there is no kosher human blood in the Bible-- in point of fact: there is no blood whatsoever approved for human consumption in the Bible, let alone human; not even Christ's.
Our first hint that the Lord was speaking rather strangely beginning at John 6:26 and continuing all the way down to 6:63, is his statement below:
†. John 6:63 . .The words I have spoken to you are spirit
The words that people speak among themselves are natural words rather than spirit words. What I'm getting at is that spirit words are supernatural. Therefore spirit words cannot be properly understood by a natural mind.
The curious thing about spirit words is that I can read them in my own language; and I can even look them up in a Webster's dictionary. However, spirit words don't say what I think they say. No, on the contrary-- though spirit words speak in my own language, they invariably leave me with the wrong impression because my mind doesn't comprehend spirit words: my mind only comprehends natural words; which is why I have to laugh sometimes when people say something like "the plain teachings of the word of God". Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw. Plain teachings? Many of those so-called "plain teachings" are spirit. Good luck nailing those down without a supernatural-to-natural translator.
So then, where am I going with this? Well; the natural impression one gets from John 6:26 down to John 6:63 is that people must literally dine upon the Lord's flesh and blood in order to obtain eternal life. But that's human thought reacting to spirit words. Had the Lord's words been expressed in human thought rather than spirit thought; then yes, we'd all have to dine upon his flesh and blood in order to obtain eternal life. So my next question is not is there a doctor in the house; but is there a spirit-to-human translator in the house to tell us what that mysterious passage is really saying?
You know, it would really be nice if every new Bible came packaged with an enigma machine, sort of like the one the Germans used in the second world war to decipher their coded messages because there are secrets locked in the Bible that no human mind, no matter what its IQ, is even aware of; let alone able to translate into human comprehension.
†. 1Cor 2:13-14 . .This is what we speak-- not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit-- expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are absurd to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I suspect that a pretty good number of us when we discuss the Bible are sort of like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there.
Cliff
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W
Webers_Home
Guest
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Common Objection : according to 1Cor 11:20-29, it's possible to be guilty of the Lord's body and blood. Being guilty of someone's body and blood is to be guilty of murder. How could one be guilty of murder if the bread and wine are only symbols?
According to Rom 6:9, the Lord rose from the dead immortal; which means that both his flesh and his blood are now impervious to death-- therefore it is impossible to be guilty of a homicide by partaking of the Lord's supper in a disrespectful manner. This is typically something the transubstantiation people never think of.
So then, it's conceivable that a vandal could pound a host wafer to dust with a mallet and feed it to his pet gerbil; and then use the wine element in one of Giada de Laurentis' recipes; and still not cause the Lord any mortal harm. The vandal might denigrate the sanctity of the Lord's crucifixion by doing so; and incite his Father's righteous indignation: but that's about it.
Cliff
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Common Objection : according to 1Cor 11:20-29, it's possible to be guilty of the Lord's body and blood. Being guilty of someone's body and blood is to be guilty of murder. How could one be guilty of murder if the bread and wine are only symbols?
According to Rom 6:9, the Lord rose from the dead immortal; which means that both his flesh and his blood are now impervious to death-- therefore it is impossible to be guilty of a homicide by partaking of the Lord's supper in a disrespectful manner. This is typically something the transubstantiation people never think of.
So then, it's conceivable that a vandal could pound a host wafer to dust with a mallet and feed it to his pet gerbil; and then use the wine element in one of Giada de Laurentis' recipes; and still not cause the Lord any mortal harm. The vandal might denigrate the sanctity of the Lord's crucifixion by doing so; and incite his Father's righteous indignation: but that's about it.
Cliff
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You can't actually possess something until it is available. The children of Israel only had their land WHEN they entered it and possessed it.
God promised us Eternal Life, but we also have to die once and then the judgement. We have the right, salvation, to eternal life but we don't have it until we have it, which won't be until Rev 21.
John 6:27; Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.â€
Eternal Life is in the future, IF we endure.
Mike
Member
WH, when I have more time, I'm going to have to move this and other threads that aren't intended to be an exchange of biblical understandings. No one attends a Bible study so they can listen to a monolog and have their thoughts ignored. In a Bible study, while we might not agree with something, we don't ignore it or battle for our POV. We have our "Bible Blogs Forum" for monologues, and we have Apologetics and Theology for arguing our points.
In a Bible study, we recognize that collectively we can possibly arrive at something honest and good. At least, this should be our approach lest we become entrenched with the notion that we possess unquestionable authority over scripture. Some of my doctrines have changed over the time of my faith walk, and I like to think I'm open to being corrected by the Holy Spirit. I believe He can use others to help me along, even if they haven't spent as much time in the Word as me.
I am not repremanding you; just giving you something to consider that I don't think you do.
Being blessed.
In a Bible study, we recognize that collectively we can possibly arrive at something honest and good. At least, this should be our approach lest we become entrenched with the notion that we possess unquestionable authority over scripture. Some of my doctrines have changed over the time of my faith walk, and I like to think I'm open to being corrected by the Holy Spirit. I believe He can use others to help me along, even if they haven't spent as much time in the Word as me.
I am not repremanding you; just giving you something to consider that I don't think you do.
Being blessed.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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According to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son, people lacking eternal life, are in point of fact, quite christless.
†. 1John 5:9-12 . .We accept human testimony; but God's testimony carries more weight because it's the testimony of God, which He has given about His son . . . And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. He who has the Son has this life; he who does not have this life, does not have God's son.
To be without God's son is very serious.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
When people reject God's testimony, they are actually insinuating that He's a person of low moral integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.
†. 1John 5:10 . . Anyone who does not believe God makes Him a liar, because he hasn't believed the testimony God has given about His son.
According to John, the believers to whom he penned his first epistle; had eternal life even before the letter arrived.
†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
In the statements below, note the grammatical tense of the Lord's "have" verb. It's present tense rather than future, indicating that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.
†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life
†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
According to Christ's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to eternal life; people who don't have it neither listen to his message nor trust in God; and they exist in a state of death and grave danger of the wrath of God.
In addition, according to the Lord's statements in John 3:3-18; people lacking eternal life have not yet undergone a birth from above; hence they not only exist in a state of death, and in grave danger of the wrath of God; but they also stand condemned already.
Cliff
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An "expert witness" can be defined as: A witness, who by virtue of education, training, skill, or experience, is believed to have knowledge in a particular subject beyond that of the average person, sufficient that others may officially (and legally) rely upon the witness's specialized (scientific, technical or other) opinion about an evidence or fact issue within the scope of their expertise, referred to as the expert opinion, as an assistance to the fact-finder.
According to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son, people lacking eternal life, are in point of fact, quite christless.
†. 1John 5:9-12 . .We accept human testimony; but God's testimony carries more weight because it's the testimony of God, which He has given about His son . . . And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. He who has the Son has this life; he who does not have this life, does not have God's son.
To be without God's son is very serious.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
When people reject God's testimony, they are actually insinuating that He's a person of low moral integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.
†. 1John 5:10 . . Anyone who does not believe God makes Him a liar, because he hasn't believed the testimony God has given about His son.
According to John, the believers to whom he penned his first epistle; had eternal life even before the letter arrived.
†. 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
In the statements below, note the grammatical tense of the Lord's "have" verb. It's present tense rather than future, indicating that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.
†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life
†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
According to Christ's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to eternal life; people who don't have it neither listen to his message nor trust in God; and they exist in a state of death and grave danger of the wrath of God.
In addition, according to the Lord's statements in John 3:3-18; people lacking eternal life have not yet undergone a birth from above; hence they not only exist in a state of death, and in grave danger of the wrath of God; but they also stand condemned already.
Cliff
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Well there is no dispute that God and Jesus are experts, but it's kinda like saying the guy who invented the A bomb is a expert. Of course!
The issue is proper exegesis and I think if you look at Matthew 25:46 you will see that Jesus is the one, at THAT time, that consigns everyone to their destination and fate. “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." You can't really GO to something you already have, can you?