Like this post if you believe in pre-trib rapture of the church!

[dirtfarmer]

This is exactly why I can't buy it.i.am a jew,I can trace my surname back to early america times.

So you think when isreal is saved that they need the Mosaic laws.?one need to be kosher,raised in the temple to fit the promise.

Isreal of it repents will be as reconciled to God as much as a gentile.plenty of Hebrews are no dead in Christ. I will die,my dad,my brother, my other siblings will,and aunt,great uncle who died all are of isreal.the apostle are all jews,where do we fit, with the rapture or the nation of Israel. I can even show you that ancient isreal was a large gentile grafted in .the largest tribes were from two gentile mixed sons,as is the aaronic priesthood. It was never a pure hebrew concept.

I should do a thread on what the torah was for aND its feasts were only a reminder of what was done .not for atonement but included a purging for sins as you had to be atoned to offer .the exception was for rosh hoshanna,Yom kippur.

That said . And i john saw a large mulitude and asked.who are these washed in white robes? These are those who refused the mark of the beast,were beheaded,and we're cleansed by the blood.

A bunch of the goyim will be saved .where are these gonna fit,of you aren't a hebrew ,what group are you.this group,of either hebrews,gentiles will have to be baptisted,partake a communion of they so have time to live and its a command!

Therefore because Christ ordained those things before the cross, it's part of the church.

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

Your earthly ethnicity has nothing to do with who you are in Christ, if you are born again. When a Hebrew or Gentile become a believer(born again), they are a new creation in Christ Jesus where there are no "Jews or Gentiles", but are made a new creation:
Galatians 6:15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."
2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold all things are become new.

It, Israel, has always received salvation by faith. The sacrifices were to restore fellowship; the exception being Passover, and it looked forward to the time when Christ would shed his blood.

The law reveals the holiness that God requires, of which, no one can attain or keep. The sacrifices only covered sin for one year, then another sacrifice had to be offered for fellowship to continue. Christ made one sacrifice for all so that a relationship could be established. This is the Passover. Once that relationship is established, then there are sacrifices for the restoration of fellowship. With Christ, once that relationship has been established it can never be broken. It is fellowship that can be broken and that must be restored. fellowship is restored by confessing about sin what God says about sin.

You, being of Jewish ethnicity, when sin is in your life that doesn't change you ethnic heritage. You are still a Jew. What does change when sin is in your life is fellowship. If you live as a Jew, then you must sacrifice the prescribed sacrifice to restore fellowship.

 

[Christ_empowered]

+1 for dirtfamer

 

[jasonc]

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

Your earthly ethnicity has nothing to do with who you are in Christ, if you are born again. When a Hebrew or Gentile become a believer(born again), they are a new creation in Christ Jesus where there are no "Jews or Gentiles", but are made a new creation:
Galatians 6:15, " For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature."
2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things have passed away; behold all things are become new.

It, Israel, has always received salvation by faith. The sacrifices were to restore fellowship; the exception being Passover, and it looked forward to the time when Christ would shed his blood.

The law reveals the holiness that God requires, of which, no one can attain or keep. The sacrifices only covered sin for one year, then another sacrifice had to be offered for fellowship to continue. Christ made one sacrifice for all so that a relationship could be established. This is the Passover. Once that relationship is established, then there are sacrifices for the restoration of fellowship. With Christ, once that relationship has been established it can never be broken. It is fellowship that can be broken and that must be restored. fellowship is restored by confessing about sin what God says about sin.

You, being of Jewish ethnicity, when sin is in your life that doesn't change you ethnic heritage. You are still a Jew. What does change when sin is in your life is fellowship. If you live as a Jew, then you must sacrifice the prescribed sacrifice to restore fellowship.

Daniel offered no sacrifices, and no those were the only way. The sins could be forgiven if you had no temple by praying thar way to the temple.

The priests couldn't offer when the philistines had the Ark at all,or also during the exile .

 

[Truthfrees]

The tribulation is for the purification of Israel.

the woman (israel) is whisked away to safety because the antichrist wanted to harm her but God saved her by taking her to the dessert - so the tribulation is not for the purification of israel - Revelation 12:16

the first half of the tribulation is the devil using wicked people to try to kill as many people as possible

the 2nd half of the tribulation is God punishing the wicked

 

[dirtfarmer]

the woman (israel) is whisked away to safety because the antichrist wanted to harm her but God saved her by taking her to the dessert - so the tribulation is not for the purification of israel - Revelation 12:16

the first half of the tribulation is the devil using wicked people to try to kill as many people as possible

the 2nd half of the tribulation is God punishing the wicked

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

I would be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the tribulation.

As I understand Revelation 12 is about war. The first half is before " the great red dragon"is kicked out of heaven, waging war in heaven. The second half is about war on earth against Israel on earth after the "dragon" is kicked out of heaven. Is this the time that Israel will flee to Petra?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Daniel offered no sacrifices, and no those were the only way. The sins could be forgiven if you had no temple by praying thar way to the temple.

The priests couldn't offer when the philistines had the Ark at all,or also during the exile .

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

Wasn't Daniel about the captivity of Israel in the land of Babylon?
Would you mind explaining to a grater degree about "praying their way to the temple"? Was it possible for Israel to celebrate Passover while in captivity?

 

[Truthfrees]

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

I would be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on the tribulation.

As I understand Revelation 12 is about war. The first half is before " the great red dragon"is kicked out of heaven, waging war in heaven. The second half is about war on earth against Israel on earth after the "dragon" is kicked out of heaven. Is this the time that Israel will flee to Petra?

o - like that part about israel flees to petra part - i guess that is the woman being taken to the safety in the desert - great point - thank you

i'd have to start studying all the scriptures again because right now i only remember a part of all that i studied so i am posting by memory the parts i remember clearly - and reading what you all have to say to jog my memory on the rest - until i have time to restudy all the scriptures again

but just going by memory -

1. FALL OF LUCIFER/ANGELS/MAN - the dragon was kicked out of heaven when lucifer and and 1/3 of the angels were kicked out of heaven for rebelling against God - and then the devil/serpent/lucifer/dragon tricked adam and eve - and sin was brought into the earth and the human race needed a Savior - so that is when the war in the heavens happened - end-times war will happen on earth

2 RAPTURE - the devil has been trying to thwart God's plans since the original ancient war in the heavens - he will bring the antichrist to power one day - when the Holy Spirit Who holds him back now is taken out of the earth and us along with Him - God SAVES christians -

3. TRIBULATION 1st half - the devil/dragon/serpent will pour out his wrath on as many people as possible because he hates all people - even the ones that work for him/side with him - humans are made in God's image and loved by God - he will do so for 3.5 years until - woman/israel flees to desert and is protected by God from devil's desire to destroy her - God SAVES israel

3a. POSSIBLE MID-TRIB - this is the point where some think God raptures us all - BEFORE the wrath of God and after new christians take their stand for Christ when confronted by antichrist - some think israel/the woman and the christians/her children were taken to the desert to be kept safe for 3.5 years

4. TRIBULATION 2nd half - God starts waging war and pouring out plagues on the evil God haters for the final 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation - the God haters will refuse to repent and start cursing God directly

NOT SURE FROM HERE ON - NEED TO RE-STUDY THE FOLLOWING BUT I THINK
5. MILLENNIAL PEACE - then Jesus will come at the sound of the Trumpet (yom kippur) and will finish the war and start the 1000 year reign of peace - devil and his angles thrown into lake of fire for this time - people will have another chance to choose for or against God

6. ARMAGEDDON - at end of 1000 years evil devil is released from lake of fires - some will follow him and fight against Jesus in the valley of megido - bridle high in blood from the slaughter - Jesus wins - devil and all on his side thrown into lake of fire for ever

7. NEW HEAVENS/EARTH - the heavens and earth will be rolled up as a scroll and we will have a new heavens and earth and eternity with God without devil and God haters - all evil humans and spirits thrown into lake of fire for eternity

interesting thread - learning lots by what you all are sharing

 

[JLB]

So many comments and threads here seem to indicate that so many people believe saved, born again Christians have to prepare to survive the great tribulation. I'm curious if I'm the only pre-tribber on this forum?

The church is not appointed to wrath and when Jesus told people to flee to the mountains in those days he's speaking to those in Judea who observe the Sabbath (read it in Matthew 24) - aka, not born again Christians.

Titus 2:13 - Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Can I get an Amen?

The rapture comes just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, in which both are caught up together in the air to be with the Lord.

This takes place at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

o - like that part about israel flees to petra part - i guess that is the woman being taken to the safety in the desert - great point - thank you

i'd have to start studying all the scriptures again because right now i only remember a part of all that i studied so i am posting by memory the parts i remember clearly - and reading what you all have to say to jog my memory on the rest - until i have time to restudy all the scriptures again

but just going by memory -

1. FALL OF LUCIFER/ANGELS/MAN - the dragon was kicked out of heaven when lucifer and and 1/3 of the angels were kicked out of heaven for rebelling against God - and then the devil/serpent/lucifer/dragon tricked adam and eve - and sin was brought into the earth and the human race needed a Savior - so that is when the war in the heavens happened - end-times war will happen on earth

2 RAPTURE - the devil has been trying to thwart God's plans since the original ancient war in the heavens - he will bring the antichrist to power one day - when the Holy Spirit Who holds him back now is taken out of the earth and us along with Him - God SAVES christians -

3. TRIBULATION 1st half - the devil/dragon/serpent will pour out his wrath on as many people as possible because he hates all people - even the ones that work for him/side with him - humans are made in God's image and loved by God - he will do so for 3.5 years until - woman/israel flees to desert and is protected by God from devil's desire to destroy her - God SAVES israel

3a. POSSIBLE MID-TRIB - this is the point where some think God raptures us all - BEFORE the wrath of God and after new christians take their stand for Christ when confronted by antichrist - some think israel/the woman and the christians/her children were taken to the desert to be kept safe for 3.5 years

4. TRIBULATION 2nd half - God starts waging war and pouring out plagues on the evil God haters for the final 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation - the God haters will refuse to repent and start cursing God directly

NOT SURE FROM HERE ON - NEED TO RE-STUDY THE FOLLOWING BUT I THINK
5. MILLENNIAL PEACE - then Jesus will come at the sound of the Trumpet (yom kippur) and will finish the war and start the 1000 year reign of peace - devil and his angles thrown into lake of fire for this time - people will have another chance to choose for or against God

6. ARMAGEDDON - at end of 1000 years evil devil is released from lake of fires - some will follow him and fight against Jesus in the valley of megido - bridle high in blood from the slaughter - Jesus wins - devil and all on his side thrown into lake of fire for ever

7. NEW HEAVENS/EARTH - the heavens and earth will be rolled up as a scroll and we will have a new heavens and earth and eternity with God without devil and God haters - all evil humans and spirits thrown into lake of fire for eternity

interesting thread - learning lots by what you all are sharing

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

I have never thought about the difference between "war in heaven" and " war on earth", interesting though. As I understand the 1/3 of the angels that followed Lucifer in his " I will be like the Most High God" rebellion was they are the demons that wage spiritual warfare with God's people. It is during the tribulation that "the dragon", Satan, will be cast down to the earth in the form of the visible "antichrist". As I see it, according to Job 1 & 2 he still has access to the throne of God. Also, in Revelation, he is "the accuser of the brethren" and Jesus is our intercessor.

I understand as you that the "falling away" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians is the "rapture" of the body of believers.

I understand the opening of the "seven seals" in Revelation is the reversal of Satan's usurping the "title deed" of the earth that Adam lost when he made the choice to eat the "forbidden" fruit in Eden.

It is my belief that after the tribulation Satan is bound and cast into the "bottomless pit" for 1000 years. This is speculation on my part, but, when Satan is bound for 1000 years his spiritual followers, the demons, have no power. Then after the millennium he (Satan) will be released for the battle of Armageddon to prove that there is only one "Most High God". After his loss of the battle, he and those that followed his will be tossed into the lake of fire forever.

Then the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH!!! AMEN.

 

[jasonc]

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

Wasn't Daniel about the captivity of Israel in the land of Babylon?
Would you mind explaining to a grater degree about "praying their way to the temple"? Was it possible for Israel to celebrate Passover while in captivity?

Nope,they couldn't do any feast without an altar.no levites.Daniel prayed towards the ruins of Jerusalem. As did his friends and all faithful jews.

It's a command ,if you are in exile,repent by praying towards the temple and I will restore the land and temple

 

[Truthfrees]

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

I have never thought about the difference between "war in heaven" and " war on earth", interesting though. As I understand the 1/3 of the angels that followed Lucifer in his " I will be like the Most High God" rebellion was they are the demons that wage spiritual warfare with God's people. It is during the tribulation that "the dragon", Satan, will be cast down to the earth in the form of the visible "antichrist". As I see it, according to Job 1 & 2 he still has access to the throne of God. Also, in Revelation, he is "the accuser of the brethren" and Jesus is our intercessor.

I understand as you that the "falling away" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians is the "rapture" of the body of believers.

I understand the opening of the "seven seals" in Revelation is the reversal of Satan's usurping the "title deed" of the earth that Adam lost when he made the choice to eat the "forbidden" fruit in Eden.

It is my belief that after the tribulation Satan is bound and cast into the "bottomless pit" for 1000 years. This is speculation on my part, but, when Satan is bound for 1000 years his spiritual followers, the demons, have no power. Then after the millennium he (Satan) will be released for the battle of Armageddon to prove that there is only one "Most High God". After his loss of the battle, he and those that followed his will be tossed into the lake of fire forever.

Then the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH!!! AMEN.

yes - amen

we are all trying to understand the end-times - imo it's easier to make sense of it if we all share what we see and work together -

this part:
"I will be like the Most High God" rebellion was they are the demons that wage spiritual warfare with God's people. It is during the tribulation that "the dragon", Satan, will be cast down to the earth in the form of the visible "antichrist". "

so are you saying the war in heaven did happen or is still to happen?

daniel fasted and prayed 21 days before michael helped gabriel get through to daniel with a message from God - gabriel said God heard the first day but the satanic angels were fighting gabriel until micheal came to help - so 2 things for me from that - that war with lucifer leading a rebellion alread happened by daniel's time and lucifer was thrown down to the earth and no longer could live in heaven -

there are at least 3 heavens according to paul which could mean 1. earth's atmosphere 2. space 3. Holy heaven where God and purity live

imo timeline for wars is like this
1. lucifer/satan had a battle in HOLY HEAVEN /3rd heaven and was thrown out - thrown down to the earth

2. adam and eve were created on earth where the devil was

3. satan and his angels still have battles in 1ST HEAVEN/atmosphere and 2ND HEAVEN/space and the earth with God's Holy angels - but can never again enter HOLY HEAVEN because they are now and forever unholy -

so when it says satan came before God's thrown about job it would mean something different - because God is omnipresent in all 3 heavens and earth and hell and any other place we don't even know about - and it didn't say satan came before God's throne in HOLY HEAVEN - it just said satan came before God's throne/authority/power/magnificence/etc

so imo satan came before God's throne by calling out to Him from somewhere short of HOLY HEAVEN like earth/atmosphere/space/etc - as we can do now - kinda like being outside the locked city gates and calling to those who reside within - like the friend who called to the man inside the locked house and said give me some bread for my company

note the battles fought in the 1st 2nd 3rd heavens would be in the spiritual realms - not in humanly observable realms like earth's atmosphere and space are - and imo the 3RD HEAVEN is entirely spiritual/unseen by natural eyes

4. the war on earth/armageddon battle will be the reason the devil gets thrown into lake of fire - so he will no longer be able to roam the earth for 1000 years - his territory/freedom keeps shrinking - God blocks him from more and more free roaming with each successive move of God's timeline

enjoy the points you made - food for thought - God bless you

 

[Truthfrees]

The rapture comes just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, in which both are caught up together in the air to be with the Lord.

This takes place at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds

JLB

check out my 2 posts (27 and 31) about timelines and let me know what you see - your posts make a lot of sense - God bless you

or in our pm conversation if it might be too confusing to discuss here

 

[JLB]

check out my 2 posts (27 and 31) about timelines and let me know what you see - your posts make a lot of sense - God bless you

or in our pm conversation if it might be too confusing to discuss here

I saw your posts. I’m trying to link them with the resurrection and rapture.

Once we establish the three main things that occur at His coming, it is easy for all to agree.

We never even have to mention the tribulation.

Everything is found right in Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians from where I quoted.

I think all agree that that’s the rapture scripture come from Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians.

The first thing Paul mentions that occurs at His coming is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

And the dead in Christ will rise first.


After the resurrection of the dead in Christ is the rapture -


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17


It’s easy to see that the resurrection and rapture happen at His coming from Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians.


This event is called the gathering, whereby Jesus gathers His people from heaven and earth together, to be with Him.

• And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17


No one left behind.


Now the third thing that happens at His coming, that many are unaware of.

• Also found in Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians -

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

yes - amen

we are all trying to understand the end-times - imo it's easier to make sense of it if we all share what we see and work together -

this part:
"I will be like the Most High God" rebellion was they are the demons that wage spiritual warfare with God's people. It is during the tribulation that "the dragon", Satan, will be cast down to the earth in the form of the visible "antichrist". "

so are you saying the war in heaven did happen or is still to happen?

daniel fasted and prayed 21 days before michael helped gabriel get through to daniel with a message from God - gabriel said God heard the first day but the satanic angels were fighting gabriel until micheal came to help - so 2 things for me from that - that war with lucifer leading a rebellion alread happened by daniel's time and lucifer was thrown down to the earth and no longer could live in heaven -

there are at least 3 heavens according to paul which could mean 1. earth's atmosphere 2. space 3. Holy heaven where God and purity live

imo timeline for wars is like this
1. lucifer/satan had a battle in HOLY HEAVEN /3rd heaven and was thrown out - thrown down to the earth

2. adam and eve were created on earth where the devil was

3. satan and his angels still have battles in 1ST HEAVEN/atmosphere and 2ND HEAVEN/space and the earth with God's Holy angels - but can never again enter HOLY HEAVEN because they are now and forever unholy -

so when it says satan came before God's thrown about job it would mean something different - because God is omnipresent in all 3 heavens and earth and hell and any other place we don't even know about - and it didn't say satan came before God's throne in HOLY HEAVEN - it just said satan came before God's throne/authority/power/magnificence/etc

so imo satan came before God's throne by calling out to Him from somewhere short of HOLY HEAVEN like earth/atmosphere/space/etc - as we can do now - kinda like being outside the locked city gates and calling to those who reside within - like the friend who called to the man inside the locked house and said give me some bread for my company

note the battles fought in the 1st 2nd 3rd heavens would be in the spiritual realms - not in humanly observable realms like earth's atmosphere and space are - and imo the 3RD HEAVEN is entirely spiritual/unseen by natural eyes

4. the war on earth/armageddon battle will be the reason the devil gets thrown into lake of fire - so he will no longer be able to roam the earth for 1000 years - his territory/freedom keeps shrinking - God blocks him from more and more free roaming with each successive move of God's timeline

enjoy the points you made - food for thought - God bless you

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

As I understand our warfare is in the Spiritual realm. The reason that I believe this is because we are told that we war not against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. The world today is Satan's domain. It was usurped from Adam in the Garden. God gave Adam dominion over every creature and all the earth. It was dominion that Lucifer desired, not being a doxology only. He even said "I will be like the Most High God". He rebelled and 1/3 of the angels with him, but that didn't make him like God. His desire to rule (have dominion) is where he rebelled. So, he devised the plan to usurp Adam's dominion. It is my belief that he knew that he could not deceive Adam because of direct revelation to Adam, but Eve was not given direct revelation, only instruction through Adam.

Before the fall, Eve was Adam's mirror image. By that I mean what Adam lacked Eve had and what Eve lacked Adam had. They completed each other. It was after the fall that Eve became subject to Adam. In Genesis 3:16 the last phrase states: "and he shall rule over thee". I believe this is when Adam became head of his house. We have to understand that Eve was from Adam's side, not from his head as to rule over him, nor from his feet as to be his servant.

As to Michael coming to assist Gabriel during Daniel's time, would this not give precedence to "spiritual warfare that is continuing.

The earth is Satan's domain by virtue of Adam's sin that gave Satan the title deed to the earth. The seven seals in Revelation is God's final judgment against "the dragon" Satan in which God shows him that he has no power except that which God allowed. Remember we are told that creation will be redeemed ( Romans 8:20-21, " Because the creature was made subject to vanity, and not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

I also understand 3 heavens as you do.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I saw your posts. I’m trying to link them with the resurrection and rapture.

Once we establish the three main things that occur at His coming, it is easy for all to agree.

We never even have to mention the tribulation.

Everything is found right in Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians from where I quoted.

I think all agree that that’s the rapture scripture come from Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians.

The first thing Paul mentions that occurs at His coming is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

And the dead in Christ will rise first.


After the resurrection of the dead in Christ is the rapture -


Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17


It’s easy to see that the resurrection and rapture happen at His coming from Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians.


This event is called the gathering, whereby Jesus gathers His people from heaven and earth together, to be with Him.

• And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:17


No one left behind.


Now the third thing that happens at His coming, that many are unaware of.

• Also found in Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians -

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

We have had many discussions on end times. It is my belief that in Thessalonians is not descriptive of Christ's return to the earth. As we see in Thessalonians it is stated " in the clouds" , not a physical return to the earth at this time, but we do find in the old testament prophecy about his return to the earth physically and the mount splits when his(Christ) feet touch the earth there.

thanks, dirtfarmer

 

[jasonc]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

We have had many discussions on end times. It is my belief that in Thessalonians is not descriptive of Christ's return to the earth. As we see in Thessalonians it is stated " in the clouds" , not a physical return to the earth at this time, but we do find in the old testament prophecy about his return to the earth physically and the mount splits when his(Christ) feet touch the earth there.

thanks, dirtfarmer

if an alien space craft was to fly above in the clouds surely you wouldn't say that the space craft didn't come to earth.

plenty of mountains are actually above clouds, mt.ranier, mt st helens, places I was in Afghanistan. so in a sense if one was above the clouds, he would descend to the cloud.

 

[dirtfarmer]

if an alien space craft was to fly above in the clouds surely you wouldn't say that the space craft didn't come to earth.

plenty of mountains are actually above clouds, mt.ranier, mt st helens, places I was in Afghanistan. so in a sense if one was above the clouds, he would descend to the cloud.

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

I would say that it entered earth's atmosphere but not come to the earth. when clouds come down to the earth we call that fog, but when they are above the earth(ground) we call them clouds, not fog.

Thanks for your service to our country.

I agree that there are mountains that the higher elevations are above the clouds, but Mt Rainer, nor Mt St. Helens are in clouds. If your feet are at the base of those mountains, you are not in the clouds unless it is foggy.

 

[Truthfrees]

hello Truthfrees, dirtfarmer here

As I understand our warfare is in the Spiritual realm. The reason that I believe this is because we are told that we war not against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in heavenly places. The world today is Satan's domain. It was usurped from Adam in the Garden. God gave Adam dominion over every creature and all the earth. It was dominion that Lucifer desired, not being a doxology only. He even said "I will be like the Most High God". He rebelled and 1/3 of the angels with him, but that didn't make him like God. His desire to rule (have dominion) is where he rebelled. So, he devised the plan to usurp Adam's dominion. It is my belief that he knew that he could not deceive Adam because of direct revelation to Adam, but Eve was not given direct revelation, only instruction through Adam.

Before the fall, Eve was Adam's mirror image. By that I mean what Adam lacked Eve had and what Eve lacked Adam had. They completed each other. It was after the fall that Eve became subject to Adam. In Genesis 3:16 the last phrase states: "and he shall rule over thee". I believe this is when Adam became head of his house. We have to understand that Eve was from Adam's side, not from his head as to rule over him, nor from his feet as to be his servant.

As to Michael coming to assist Gabriel during Daniel's time, would this not give precedence to "spiritual warfare that is continuing.

The earth is Satan's domain by virtue of Adam's sin that gave Satan the title deed to the earth. The seven seals in Revelation is God's final judgment against "the dragon" Satan in which God shows him that he has no power except that which God allowed. Remember we are told that creation will be redeemed ( Romans 8:20-21, " Because the creature was made subject to vanity, and not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. Because the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

I also understand 3 heavens as you do.

amen - i agree with all this

as far as satan has as much power as God allows - yes - God made the rules - HE gave dominion of the earth to adam - adam gave that dominion to satan and God allowed adam to give it to satan - Jesus got it back for us and now we are learning how to walk as Jesus walked and use that authority/dominion He says he gives to us

i liked the part where you said our warfare is in spiritual realms too - good point - our weapons are not carnal earthly weapons - they are powerful IN the Holy Spirit to the pulling down of strongholds - great point - thanks

 

[dirtfarmer]

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

Since Jesus was a heavenly being, and not of this earth, would he be an alien?

 

[jasonc]

hello jasonc, dirtfarmer here

I would say that it entered earth's atmosphere but not come to the earth. when clouds come down to the earth we call that fog, but when they are above the earth(ground) we call them clouds, not fog.

Thanks for your service to our country.

I agree that there are mountains that the higher elevations are above the clouds, but Mt Rainer, nor Mt St. Helens are in clouds. If your feet are at the base of those mountains, you are not in the clouds unless it is foggy.

still a visit, the planets all of them save one have an atmosphere. Jupiter has no land mass its a a gaseous planet. that is his point

earlier you said my ethnicity was irrevelent to salvation. so you then didn't see that you negated any idea of that modern day isreal would then by repentence simply become another church. sorry the torah of which I can break down the feasts and also the temple and laws into pointing to Jesus thus making messianic Judaism a type of church and worship flavor since circumcision,nor shabat are required. where does it say that Jesus will remove one church to start another?

I am of isreal because I know that its I mine inheritance. my brother senses that. if you aren't a jew, you wont feel that. I cant shake that. that is why I ask about these jews now and those in the past and to come who get saved. where do we fit? the church of the nation of isreal?

one body, there I no mention of a division of Jews or gentile in heaven.only mentioning the 24 elders with the 144,000 in heaven.