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Lincoln Recognizing God, Establishing Thanksgiving Day 1863

America is now in it's 3rd generation of school children, since modern day judicial activism, has systematically removed historical TRUTH from the text books. And what is this truth that is supposedly so damaging to our children? The simple truth that America was founded by primarily Godly men, to be a Godly Country, run by a God Fearing Government! The Bible was important to the Continental Congress and our Founding Fathers. On September 11, 1777, they recommended that 20,000 copies of the Bible be imported from outside the colonies because there was a great shortage of Bibles due to the interruptions in trade with England. The Bibles were ordered and paid for by the newly formed government. The first page of each Bible was inscribed, "Approved for the American people." A few years later, Congress approved a distinctly American Bible, Aitken's Bible, published under Congressional patronage. Until the mid 1900's, our government continually sought for ways to integrate religious principles into our nation, and even paid for it most of the time! Obviously, there was no such thing as "Separation of Church and State" until our radical modern era. Today's children are being lied to and brain washed into believing just the opposite. There will be very little commentary throughout the rest of this article, as my aim is to present to you the actual quotations from our Founders, and let you decide for yourself. I have also included some quotations towards the end from some of our nation's leaders since the Founding Era. Hear now, as America's Founders speak.

CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS

"It is hoped that by God's assistance, some of the continents in the Ocean will be discovered....for the Glory of God." And, at his famous landing, "It was the Lord who put into my mind--I could feel His hand upon me--the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies. All who heard of my project recited it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous inspirations from the Holy Spirit."

THE PILGRIMS MAYFLOWER COMPACT

"Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and the advancement of the Christian Faith and honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia,"

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

NEW HAMPSHIRE CONSTITUTION, 1776

"That morality and piety, rightly grounded on evangelical principles, would give the best and greatest security to government....therefore the legislature is empowered to adopt measures for the support and maintenance of public Christian teachers of piety, religion, and morality."

WILLIAM PENN

"If we will not be governed by God, we must be governed by tyrants."

JOHN JAY
- First Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers. COMMENTARY: If our Founding Fathers really intended for there to be such a thing as "Separation of Church and State", don't you just have to believe that this man would have known about it?

BENJAMIN RUSH

"Let the children...be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education. The great enemy of the salvation of man, in my opinion, never invented a more effectual means of extirpating [removing] Christianity from the world than by persuading mankind that it was improper to read the Bible at schools."

NOAH WEBSTER

"Almost all the civil liberty now enjoyed in the world owes its origin to the principles of the christian religion......The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles......This is genuine christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions of government." AND "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed....No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people."

DANIEL WEBSTER

"God intends you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God...If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupt."

PATRICK HENRY

In a 1796 letter to his daughter Henry stated: " Amongst other strange things said of me, I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and, indeed, that some good people think I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appelation of Tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long and have given no decided and public proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character which I prize far above all this world has, or can boast."

SAMUEL ADAMS

"The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

"We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."

PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."

JAMES MADISON

"Before any man can be considered as a member of civil society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe. Religion is the basis and foundation of government."

JOHN ADAMS, 1798

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." AND "It must be felt that there is no security but in the nation's humble acknowledged dependence upon God and His overruling providence."

THOMAS JEFFERSON, 1803

"My views...are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others..."

ABRAHAM LINCOLN

When presented with the gift of a Bible, President Lincoln said: "In regard to this great book, I have to say, it is the best gift God has given to men. All the good Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it."

ULYSSES S. GRANT

"I believe in the Holy Scriptures and whoso lives by them will be benefited thereby. Men may differ as to the interpretation, which is human, but the Scriptures are man's best guide. Yes, I know, and I feel very grateful to the Christian people of the land for their prayers on my behalf. There is no sect or religion, as shown in the Old or New Testament, to which this does not apply. God gave us Lincoln and liberty. Let's fight for both."

PRESIDENT GROVER CLEVELAND

"Above all, I know there is a Supreme Being who rules the affairs of men and whose goodness and mercy have always followed the American people and I know He will not turn from us now if we humbly and reverently seek His powerful aid."

PRESIDENT CALVIN COOLIDGE

"They [the Founding Fathers] were intent upon establishing a Christian commonwealth in accordance with the principle of self-government. They were an inspired body of men. It has been said that God sifted the nations that He might send choice grain into the wilderness. Who can fail to see in it the hand of destiny? Who can doubt that it has been guided by a Divine Providence?"

PRESIDENT HERBERT HOOVER

"When there is a lack of honor in Government, the morals of the whole people are poisoned. Our strength lies in spiritual concepts. It lies in public sensitiveness to evil. Our greatest danger is not from invasion by foreign armies. Our dangers are that we may commit suicide from within by complaisance with evil, or by public tolerance of scandalous behavior."

PRESIDENT HARRY TRUMAN

"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul."

PRESIDENT DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER

"Without God there could be no American form of government nor an American way of life. Recognition of the Supreme Being is the first--the most basic--expression of Americanism."

WILLIAM ORVILLE DOUGLAS

He was a Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court for 36 years, after teaching law at Yale and Columbia University. In the 1952 case of Zorach v. Clauson, Justice William Douglas asserted: "The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State... Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other - hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly." Justice Douglas continued: "We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.... When the state encourages religious instruction...it follows the best of our traditions_ We find no constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence... We cannot read into the Bill of Rights such a philosophy of hostility to religion_ The state may not establish a _religion of secularism_ in the sense of affirmatively opposing or showing hostility to religion, thus preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe."


Retreived from http://www.americanheritageministry.org ... thers.html
 
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
many quotes!

so... there were a bunch of prominant christians in american history?
More Christians than atheists. In fact, I couldn't find any atheist history before the turn of the 20th century. The first atheist organization in America was started in my lifetime. Amazing. Madeline O'hare knows the truth now.
 
Solo said:
Loren Michael said:
Solo said:
many quotes!

so... there were a bunch of prominant christians in american history?
More Christians than atheists. In fact, I couldn't find any atheist history before the turn of the 20th century. The first atheist organization in America was started in my lifetime. Amazing. Madeline O'hare knows the truth now.

:o

just... SHOCKING. i'm sure that comes as a complete surprise to almost everyone.
 
Solo said:
Big Bag o' Quotes

Hmm.

Thomas Jefferson said:
This nation of ours was not founded on Christian principles.

Abraham Lincoln said:
My earlier views at the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.

John Adams said:
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.

It should be noted that several of those quotes from the first page - George Washington's "It's impossible to govern without the Bible" is a prime example - are spurious. Know how I know? I looked them up in Wikiquote, and found them under the listing for "spurious". Or, sometimes, "misattributions". The two I posted above were similarly from Wikiquote.

Now, the founding fathers were clearly a predominantly devout group of fellows. But they weren't all devoutly Christian. A good chunk of them - Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, for example - were deists. They believed strongly in a god, and a good god, but certainly not a Christian god. They didn't seek to create a government hostile to Christianity (or any organized religion, for that matter), but they also didn't intend to create a specifically Christian nation. Any rudimentary perusal of the literature that these men wrote will show that. When the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence flat-out states, "Hey, we're not a Christian nation," we should probably acknowledge that, rather than trotting out a list of made-up quotes and misattributions.

It's very possible to defend the rights of Christians in the twenty-first century without rewriting the accounts of what happened in the eighteenth.

Now, if someone wants to dispute the validity (or lack thereof) of any of those quotes, by all means, provide a cite to a reputable and non-biased source. I think Wikiquote is pretty sound, but if someone can one-up that, by all means.
 
ElJeffe said:
Solo said:
Big Bag o' Quotes

Hmm.

Thomas Jefferson said:
This nation of ours was not founded on Christian principles.

[quote="Abraham Lincoln":2c734]My earlier views at the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.

John Adams said:
The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.

It should be noted that several of those quotes from the first page - George Washington's "It's impossible to govern without the Bible" is a prime example - are spurious. Know how I know? I looked them up in Wikiquote, and found them under the listing for "spurious". Or, sometimes, "misattributions". The two I posted above were similarly from Wikiquote.

Now, the founding fathers were clearly a predominantly devout group of fellows. But they weren't all devoutly Christian. A good chunk of them - Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, for example - were deists. They believed strongly in a god, and a good god, but certainly not a Christian god. They didn't seek to create a government hostile to Christianity (or any organized religion, for that matter), but they also didn't intend to create a specifically Christian nation. Any rudimentary perusal of the literature that these men wrote will show that. When the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence flat-out states, "Hey, we're not a Christian nation," we should probably acknowledge that, rather than trotting out a list of made-up quotes and misattributions.

It's very possible to defend the rights of Christians in the twenty-first century without rewriting the accounts of what happened in the eighteenth.

Now, if someone wants to dispute the validity (or lack thereof) of any of those quotes, by all means, provide a cite to a reputable and non-biased source. I think Wikiquote is pretty sound, but if someone can one-up that, by all means.[/quote:2c734]
Sometimes our quotes when we were unbelievers make more noise than when we quote as believers, especially amongst the crowd of unbelievers.

I seem to remember an old saying that misery loves company. I expect that to be the case amongst those that do not know Jesus Christ as their saviour.

BTW Abraham Lincoln was an unbeliever until he became a believer around the time of the Gettysburg address.
 
solo, spurious means "lacking validity", "of illigitimate birth", and "not genuine".

you seem to have overlooked the point of jeffe's post, with respect to the nature of your quotes.
 
Loren Michael said:
solo, spurious means "lacking validity", "of illigitimate birth", and "not genuine".

you seem to have overlooked the point of jeffe's post, with respect to the nature of your quotes.

I understand the previous post just fine. Anytime anyone's opinion differs from another, an attack on the validity of quotes is engendered.

The religious affilitation of the 205 founding fathers is noted below:

FoundingFathers.jpg


http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_F ... igion.html

How many of the founding fathers would have chosen the god of the hindus, muslims, pagans, buddhists, or any other god different than the Almighty God of the Bible?
 
Funny how you've managed to somehow claim that Franklin was Christian when he was deist.
 
Quid said:
Funny how you've managed to somehow claim that Franklin was Christian when he was deist.
Where did I say that Franklin was a Christian?
 
You claim those are the religious preferences of the founding fathers which means either you included the deists, inappropriately assigning them a religion, or that you don't think they were founding fathers.

In fact, could I see a list of the 205 founding fathers since the ones listed here don't come close to that number.
 
Benjamin Franklin considered himself a part of the episcopal church, but was himself a deist. he stopped going to christian gatherings and the like pretty early on. Solo, your chart, at least in the link you supplied with it, includes franklin as a christian. it also noted that it included all the faiths that the founding fathers ever were. that means that, say, if franklin or washington or jefferson or adams or whoever stopped going to church, your graph would still include them.
 
Quid said:
You claim those are the religious preferences of the founding fathers which means either you included the deists, inappropriately assigning them a religion, or that you don't think they were founding fathers.

In fact, could I see a list of the 205 founding fathers since the ones listed here don't come close to that number.
I have already researched and am settled that the founding of this nation was upon the Judeo/Christian beliefs in the Bible. I saw no muslims, buddhists, pagans, hindus or others apart from Christian Church members as founding fathers.

It doesn't take much research to find out every one of the founding fathers names. You could have it all done within the next 30 minutes or so.
 
Loren Michael said:
Benjamin Franklin considered himself a part of the episcopal church, but was himself a deist. he stopped going to christian gatherings and the like pretty early on. Solo, your chart, at least in the link you supplied with it, includes franklin as a christian. it also noted that it included all the faiths that the founding fathers ever were. that means that, say, if franklin or washington or jefferson or adams or whoever stopped going to church, your graph would still include them.

Study their beliefs and their quotes, and you will understand the truth of the founding of this nation. Apart from that you will never know except what your unbelief teaches you. Good luck. The founding fathers were members of those churches mentioned. Apart from that and their quotes there is no logical understanding of their beliefs.
 
Solo said:
Quid said:
You claim those are the religious preferences of the founding fathers which means either you included the deists, inappropriately assigning them a religion, or that you don't think they were founding fathers.

In fact, could I see a list of the 205 founding fathers since the ones listed here don't come close to that number.
I have already researched and am settled that the founding of this nation was upon the Judeo/Christian beliefs in the Bible. I saw no muslims, buddhists, pagans, hindus or others apart from Christian Church members as founding fathers.

It doesn't take much research to find out every one of the founding fathers names. You could have it all done within the next 30 minutes or so.
You used a faulty graph that settled nothing. That graphic isn't even linked to a site, but instead to a photobucket account. For all I know it's something you've made up.

Nor, when asked why there were so many more founding fathers than listed on reference sites would you answer where the number 205 came from.
 
Quid said:
Solo said:
Quid said:
You claim those are the religious preferences of the founding fathers which means either you included the deists, inappropriately assigning them a religion, or that you don't think they were founding fathers.

In fact, could I see a list of the 205 founding fathers since the ones listed here don't come close to that number.
I have already researched and am settled that the founding of this nation was upon the Judeo/Christian beliefs in the Bible. I saw no muslims, buddhists, pagans, hindus or others apart from Christian Church members as founding fathers.

It doesn't take much research to find out every one of the founding fathers names. You could have it all done within the next 30 minutes or so.
You used a faulty graph that settled nothing. That graphic isn't even linked to a site, but instead to a photobucket account. For all I know it's something you've made up.

Nor, when asked why there were so many more founding fathers than listed on reference sites would you answer where the number 205 came from.

Check out the URL site that was posted in the initial post that referenced the numbers and you won't come across to others as being inept.
 
Loren Michael said:
Benjamin Franklin considered himself a part of the episcopal church, but was himself a deist. he stopped going to christian gatherings and the like pretty early on. Solo, your chart, at least in the link you supplied with it, includes franklin as a christian. it also noted that it included all the faiths that the founding fathers ever were. that means that, say, if franklin or washington or jefferson or adams or whoever stopped going to church, your graph would still include them.
 
Looking at that site I see arguments as biased and poorly worded as your own, nor any reasoning on how there were 205 founding fathers.

Hold on, give me about half an hour and I can make a site claiming the lack of pirates is causing global warming, with a graph to prove it and everything.

Solo, I'm kind enough to link to unbiased sites such as Wikipedia, the least you could do is the same. Who were the 205 founding fathers? Wiki only lists about half that.
 
/sigh

i hate posting random quotes, as they're so unproductive and prone to misinterpretation.

having said that, though, what the heck.

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831.

and then, the legendary TREATY OF TRIPOLI!!!:

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams

i could just bold that whole thing for emphasis, but it would be a little redundant.
 
Solo said:
BTW Abraham Lincoln was an unbeliever until he became a believer around the time of the Gettysburg address.

I can see how one might make this mistake, since Lincoln's religion wasn't very cut and dried. He had great sympathy for Christianity in his later years, read the Bible often, and even attended church. He never, though, actually accepted it as valid.

This page provides a pretty good account of the evolution of Lincoln's beliefs.

The religious aspect of the tale, in a nutshell: Lincoln was unable to believe, but was never comfortable in his unbelief. Youthful skepticism gave way to deeper respect for religion. And during the devastation of the Civil War, Lincoln's self-made theology reshaped American history. The key to Lincoln's belief system was a roughhewn version of predestination that he absorbed from his parents' churches.

Lincoln was an honest fellow. He could've profitted politically by pretending to be a Christian. To his credit, he didn't. He was, however, a great, noble, and very spiritual man. Pretending that he's something that he wasn't is a profound disservice to a man who literally gave his life for what he believed in.

As to the rest of the founding fathers, et al, I think Quid and Co. are doing a good job of summarizing things. In spite of evidence to the contrary that we've presented, you seem very much convinced that just about every last founding father was some flavor of Christian. You say that you have done extensive research which has settled your mind, presumably such that you're unwilling to entertain the notion that you may be mistaken. May I ask what impeccable sources you used to convince yourself so?

And another question: Pretend, for a moment, that you somehow became convinced that the founding fathers were largely Deist, and not Christian. What would this mean, practically speaking? How would it negatively affect you, your faith, or our nation? How do the spiritual beliefs of a bunch of guys who lived 200+ years ago affect the spiritual beliefs of those who live and practice today?
 
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