Living Sinfree is a Must

[stranger]

What will happen if we don't live sinfree?

The alernative is living in sin, so to what are Christians called?

I don't agree that this is an either/or situation: Either we live totally sinless or we are living in sin. This isn't Biblical. What is Biblical is that we are new creatures in Christ with the old passing away and we are becomming new. We can live our lives according to God's purposes, and yet still stumble in sin. Stumbling in sin isn't the same as living in sin.

Is the old passing away or has it passed away? Is the new coming or has it come? Let's compare the following two:
1. If anyman is in Christ he is becoming a new creation, the old is passing away, the new is coming.
2. If anyman is in Christ he is a new creation, the old has passed away, behold the new has come.

[quote:c82b1]Take for example Peter. Long after Pentecost, when he became recognized as a leader, if not the leader of the church at Jerusalem, he still sinned in the matter of being hypocritical towards the Gentiles.(Galatians 2:11) Are we going to say then that Peter was "living in sin"? Of course he wasn't.

If Peter continued being hypocritical towards the Gentiles, and that was a sin in God's eyes then yes, he would be living in sin.

There are those who will testify to just about anything. Sorry if I sound a little cynical. The problem is, for as long as I've been associated with the Church of the Nazarene, (over 20 years now) I've only heard of those who will testify that such persons exist. I've yet to hear anyone actually say that they themselves have this totally sin-free existence. One thing I appreciate about the Church of the Nazarene is that, while this is part of their official doctrine, they never push it or put anyone down for not agreeing with it, and even in the official handbook of the church, the doctrine is taught as a secondary outpouring of the Spirit, not as something that anyone can achieve just by really good living.

Frankly, I can imagine that there may indeed be saints, probably older, who have lived their lives so totally within God's will that they may not sin in deed or thought. I'm not saying that it's impossible, for nothing is impossible with God.

What I am saying is that it is neither normal nor, more importantly Biblical. Stranger, if the Bible taught that we must achieve totally sin-free living on this planet, then I would agree with the principle. But it doesn't. Every text that speaks of our perfection, speaks of it as the ultimate outcome of our walk in faith, something that God bestows upon us at the time of His not that we would achieve that outcome here on this earth. As you say, part of the age to come. And, it's a wonderful hope that we all have in Christ.

You use the word 'must', I use the term 'calls'. God calls us to depart from all sin - that and nothing less is both His standard and expectation. Another of God's standards is to hate admixture. Let me ask you this: Does God call you to depart from all sin?

I think being free from sin starts by considering ourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Now this I am in total agreement with. We are alive in Christ Jesus, and it is by Him and through Him that we will ultimately be sin-free. Until then, we are to strive towards that goal by agreeing that God's will is good, and that our natural desires are against His perfect will.

Agreed, I would strive to enter His rest though, which is a ceasing from works.

vic mentioned Paul, and he is a good example for this as well. Note the language Paul used with Timothy, "of whom I am the chief". Am, present tense. Also, in Romans hear his anguished cry, "Wretched man that I am". Paul had no difficulty presenting himself honestly as still a sinner yet to be perfected.

Yes, Paul called himself the chief of sinners, because he persecuted the church of God. My point is did Paul keep on persecuting the church or did he stop? The cry is indeed: wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death? What do the next few words say? Thanks be to God. . .

Again, my main beef against the idea of 'sinless living' is that it places an unrealistic burden upon others. That was the main sin of the Pharisees. We need to learn from their mistakes.

[/quote:c82b1]

We are called to love our neighbour not burden them. A serious consideration of sin and sinfulness is burdensome to self - my intention is not to burden others (as believers are already burdened), and Jesus did say in Matthew 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS." The only way to be unburden is to get rid of the burden of sin.

 

[unred typo]

quote by stranger:
We are called to love our neighbour not burden them. A serious consideration of sin and sinfulness is burdensome to self - my intention is not to burden others (as believers are already burdened), and Jesus did say in Matthew 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS." The only way to be unburden is to get rid of the burden of sin.

Right. Thinking about sin is only the first step to unburdening yourself. You have to realize that it is the sin itself that is the burden to your soul. Greed for material things clutters one’s life with stuff you have to dust, paint, repair and find a place to keep it all in that also requires more work and upkeep to prevent the ravages of rust, moth, and thieves, as Jesus pointed out. The lust for pleasures such as food, sex and drugs of every kind takes it’s toll on our bodies in a variety of sicknesses and conditions of every kind to match. The love of praise and egotistical stroking only leads to making more efforts to exceed the ‘Jones’es and more pride that leaves us falling flat on our faces. Living without sin may be hard but the alternative is brutal.

Living the way Jesus taught is easy and light in comparison and has eternal life as it's reward. Unfortunately it also has it’s downside, as “all who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution,†so be prepared for ridicule or worse if you don‘t run with the pack. That is not just the pack in the world, but the worldly ones who claim to be following Christ as well.

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Lady, first off I ask, please don't get discouraged by the rebuttals to your posts. This is a Apologetics debate Forum and those who agree with you as well as disagree will be posting.

You said this:

Imagine this ... You approach a walk-up window, you see a lady (from neck up) at the window and she has scraggly, uncombed hair. The first thought that comes into your mind is: “she should be ashamed of her self.â€Â

You may not even realize it but that's a sin. It's a violation of Exodus 20:16

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Do you see how easy it is for us to sin... and not even know it? ;-) That is a direct result of our sin nature as Mondar has elaborated for us so well.

If you accidentally carry a pen home from work and don't return it for whatever reason other than the "boss" giving you permission to keep it, you're just violated Exodus 20:15. :o :wink:

 

[guibox]

Is the old passing away or has it passed away? Is the new coming or has it come? Let's compare the following two:
1. If anyman is in Christ he is becoming a new creation, the old is passing away, the new is coming.
2. If anyman is in Christ he is a new creation, the old has passed away, behold the new has come.

Stranger, for this to say what you claim it does, would mean that RIGHT NOW you better not be sinning. If man has become a new creation this means that at this point, you CANNOT be sinning and by defintion SHOULD not be committing any sin at any time.

Have you sinned lately?

You musn't be a 'new creature' then. Plain and simple your own definition condemns you.

You have no hope.

Doing a sin here and there because of our weak nature does not mean that you are not a new creature? Are you living in sin? do your serve your nature of sin? do you live in continual rebellion against God? Do you have a relationship with Christ that you walk along and cling to His promises of sanctification regardless of our shortcomings?

These are the issues that determine whether we are a new creature, not whether we can live in sinless perfection.

 

[handy]

Hi Lady, first off I ask, please don't get discouraged by the rebuttals to your posts. This is a Apologetics debate Forum and those who agree with you as well as disagree will be posting.

Yes, I also want to let you know, Lady, that even though I'm disagreeing with you on this particular subject, I can tell from your posts that you have a strong testimony for Christ and am glad that you are visiting here. Sometimes I come off as being very disagreeable, but honestly, this is how I learn. By picking apart things that I don't agree with and many times I come to the point of understanding how I'm wrong. I think this has been a valuable discussion.

unred typo brought out a lot of what my thoughts were concerning your post. While I think it's wonderful that you have the testimony of being so disciplined that you can stop the progess of sin right at it's inception, just the fact that sin is still incepting itself within your heart and mind still bespeaks a 'sin nature'. I agree fully that there is a difference between temptation and sin, but the line with many sins, especially sins of our thoughts and within our heart of hearts is very blurred from the time we are tempted to the time we outright sin. Praise be to God that even while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us! Otherwise, we'd be totally without hope.

Is the old passing away or has it passed away? Is the new coming or has it come? Let's compare the following two:
1. If anyman is in Christ he is becoming a new creation, the old is passing away, the new is coming.
2. If anyman is in Christ he is a new creation, the old has passed away, behold the new has come.

This is one of those areas where it is necessary to rely upon the wisdom of pastors and teachers. This is one of those times where I depart from 'sola scriptura'. Because the thing is, 2 Corinthians 5:17 cannot be accurately translated into English. Now, I'm no Greek scholar, but I had the priveledge of having a pastor who was a Greek and Hebrew scholar and was very knowledgable regarding the languages of the Bible.

2 Corinthians 5:17 contains what is known as the 'aorist tense'. Basically this means that the tense of the verbs, "passed away" and "become new" is all tenses at once or is no tense whatsoever. We do not have an equivelent tense in the English language and the translators tend to simply translate these types of verbs in the past tense.

Now, that would be gobbledegook to me, exept for the wonderful teaching that I received from Pastor Jim. The way that he taught, and I've seen this from numerous other pastors and teachers both famous and unknown, that we need to consider the "passed away" and "become new" as an event that is both complete and yet ongoing. Pastor Jim likened this to a baby being concieved. A zygote is a baby that is and is yet to be. One can also use this illustration: A person who wins a million dollars can be considered a millionaire, even though the check might not be in the bank yet. He both is, and is yet to be a millionaire. Naturally, as with all illustrations, these comparisions break down at some point, but we can use them to try to understand a concept that our 21st Century English minds don't comprehend in the same manner that our brothers and sisters that sat under Paul's teachings would have.

Our sin nature is something that was nailed to the cross with Christ, and, everytime we pick up our cross and follow Him is being nailed to the cross. Our sin nature died when we became Christ's and is continuing to die as we follow Him. We both have His righteousness and are receiving His righteousness.

And, there is this to consider: We study the Scriptures; we can break down verses and the tenses of the words within the verses; and we can seek cross-references and study similar passages. Then, we can take a really good look around us and see what God both has done and is doing. In other words, we cannot, as Spirit-filled Christains, live in the theoretical. We need to live in and act out our faith in the 'real' world.

This gets me back to the mistakes of the Pharisees. I'm sure most here realize how spiritual and religious the Pharisees were. They were the godly people of their time. So, why did they blow it so badly? It would be easy to say that they were hypocrits and leave it at that, but why were they so hypocritical? I firmly believe it was because they lived in an impossible theoretical, and held others to the impossible, all the while knowing that no one, (not even themselves) could live up to it.

You use the word 'must', I use the term 'calls'. God calls us to depart from all sin - that and nothing less is both His standard and expectation. Another of God's standards is to hate admixture. Let me ask you this: Does God call you to depart from all sin?

Actually, I didn't use the word 'must'. That was LadyInHim's verbage, which I disagree with. Honestly, I agree with you fully, God 'calls' us to depart from all sin. God's standard has been, and will always be, perfection. The question LadyInHim has challenged us to consider is then will we achieve His perfection here on earth, or will our final perfection come, as it is written in 1 Peter 5:4: "And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory."

 

[mondar]

Our sin nature is something that was nailed to the cross with Christ, and, everytime we pick up our cross and follow Him is being nailed to the cross. Our sin nature died when we became Christ's and is continuing to die as we follow Him. We both have His righteousness and are receiving His righteousness.

This is close, but there are some slight but important innaccuracies. Our sin nature did not die, but the slavery to that sin nature is what is dead.

If you read my previus post in this thread, I think I gave a good analogy of Romans 6. The analogy of the slave during the civil war. The slave was legally bound to work for his master in antibellium south. After the civil war Lincoln freed the slaves. The slaves were now free from their master. Does this mean that master died? Not really! The master was still alive, but he is no longer the legal master. This does not mean that one cannot go back and serve the old master. Where do you think most of the slaves got their jobs with their new freedom. They became share croppers for the new master.

The scriptures do not teach the irradication of the sin nature, but it does teach that we can be free of the power of the sin nature. This is not sinlessness, but it is victory over sin.

Also, the concept of "receiving" righteous is of concern. In the teachings of justification in the scriptures we are not changed into something righteous, but we are declared to be righteous. This again is a subtle difference, but a very important difference. We are delcared righteous on the basis of the righteous death of Christ.

 

[handy]

I see what you are saying Mondar, and actually am in agreement with you.

However, I think that it was on the cross that our sin nature recieved it's death blow. Just as Adam and Eve received their death when they ate the fruit, but yet went on to live for hundreds of years, so also our sin nature received it's death on the cross, yet still remains to cause us to stumble.

So also with righteousness. Again, having the understanding of the aorist tense, that something can be done, is being done and will be done, all at the same time, we are declared righteous by Christ's death on the cross, and yet are growing in righteousness as we walk by the Spirit. We will ultimately be declared as righteous...

Yikes, I was already to go in depth with a response, and use some scriptures to try to illuminate what I'm trying to get across here, but my little girl just came in and invited me to watch a movie with her and her daddy and brother. Family first, as we all know. Maybe I'll have time to post more on this tomorrow, if I can even remember where I'm going with this. For now though, I'm off to pop some popcorn into the 'wave.

 

[LadyInHim]

Every person who professes godliness should pray for wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the Word of God – not of man’s wisdom. I boldly believe the way that I do because it is verifiable in the Bible, as well as, manifested in me. I do not write to be agreed with; I write hoping to reveal the truth to them who are deceived. Whether one believes or believes not has any effect on the Truth. All our opinions are irrelevant when it comes to the Bible. God’s written Word is the only truth, and man’s contrasting wisdom, guesses, and opinions are all lies. Be not deceived!

Romans 3:3,4
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

The following scripture is why I am not troubled by temptations from the devil. God knows about all our temptations beforehand. When temptations come to me, I understand that God has provided me with an escape; and I also know that He made sure that it would not be too overbearing for me to overcome triumphantly.

1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Romans 12:1,2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We transform from the world to Spirit by the renewing of our minds. This is a personal doing we have to do ourselves with the help of the Holy Ghost. We do this by controlling the dispensation of our thoughts. Ungodly thoughts [visual or verbal] that first appear to us are merely temptations from the devil. The instant temptation comes to us is the selfsame instant in which we are to rebuke it – without giving it a second thought. By taking second thought to temptation, we take hold of it and begin to entertain it; thus, opening the door to the devil and sin. The old saying, “we are what we eat†bottom-line means “you reap what you sow.†Within the same reference, our actions are steered from our thoughts [sane or insane, good or evil] which makes our thoughts responsible for our actions. This is the reason it is so important that we control our thinking, i.e., renew our minds. It is not an instantaneous process; it is an everyday, on-going practice. Plant God and your outcome is righteousness; plant sin and your outcome is wickedness. I pray that this paragraph clarifies what I mean by stating that we are not to entertain sin, as well as, how and when temptation turns to sin.

Lastly, beloved, if God calls us to do something, it is detriment to us as true followers in Christ to obey that call. He would never call us to do anything outside his will. That is why I am so adamant with the word “mustâ€Â. If there is a difference between a ‘call to do’ and a ‘must do’, it lies within one’s individual level of obedience.

 

[unred typo]

quote by LadyInHim on Mon Nov 05, 2007:
Every person who professes godliness should pray for wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the Word of God – not of man’s wisdom. I boldly believe the way that I do because it is verifiable in the Bible, as well as, manifested in me. I do not write to be agreed with; I write hoping to reveal the truth to them who are deceived. Whether one believes or believes not has any effect on the Truth. All our opinions are irrelevant when it comes to the Bible. God’s written Word is the only truth, and man’s contrasting wisdom, guesses, and opinions are all lies. Be not deceived!

Amen! I agree wholeheartedly with all you have written, even if you don‘t write to gain support. Do you attend a local assemply that teaches as you do? I am interested in finding a denomination that doesn’t preach the ‘no works’ salvation message that seems to permeated the entire ‘church’ today.

 

[Vic C.]

Just be careful and heed to the words in the very first paragraph of mondar's post at the top of this page. He mentioned legalism.

Unred, I do not post in favor of gaining support. Just ask some of our former Moderators. 8-) I have all the support I need from above and not from man. We stumble and fall, but do not think for one moment we pick ourselves up. Salvation is outside of ourselves:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

The same principle applies to sanctification. We cannot sanctify ourselves. The more we try, the more we fall into a state of legalism. Preservation through sanctification by God will be achieved wholly when we are in our glorified state in the End.

We sin; we sin all to easily. Even that first fleeting thought that enters into our heads is a sin. By God's very standards and decrees for and against man, it's impossible for us not to sin, somewhere, sometime in our lives. Because of that, it's impossible for us to do anything outside of hearing and believing.

I'm not a 5-pointer, but I understand enough to know that... it's never been about me; it's always been about HIM. The Bible isn't about how we can save ourselves; it's about God's plan of salvation for Man, not to mention God's main way of revealing Himself and His nature to us. We please Him by doing and displease Him by not doing, but the former doesn't get us saved and the latter doesn't negate one's salvation.

Lets try not confuse trying to live a sinless with justification. 8-)

 

[unred typo]

quote by vic C. on Wed Nov 07, 2007
Just be careful and heed to the words in the very first paragraph of mondar's post at the top of this page. He mentioned legalism.

While you’re up there reading Mondar’s post, read my reply right under it.

quote by vic C.
Unred, I do not post in favor of gaining support. Just ask some of our former Moderators. I have all the support I need from above and not from man. We stumble and fall, but do not think for one moment we pick ourselves up. Salvation is outside of ourselves:

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

I don’t post to gain support either but it is nice to know you’re not alone, so I encouraged LadyinHim in that regard. Most of the Calvinists here have shuffled off to Buffalo as it were. They don’t seem to be able to withstand the heat when you toss one of their doctrines into the fires of judgment.

quote by vic C.
The same principle applies to sanctification. We cannot sanctify ourselves. The more we try, the more we fall into a state of legalism. Preservation through sanctification by God will be achieved wholly when we are in our glorified state in the End.

Maybe we are thinking of two different definitions for ‘sanctify.’ I thought it meant ‘being set apart’. The death of Christ frees us from the power of sin and death because when we confess our sins, the blood removes it from us. This is being sanctified: Being set apart from the sins ‘that so easily beset us.’ This setting apart from our sin is done by God, but the repenting and confessing isn’t. And yes, the final step is when God removes all things that offend from his kingdom.

quote by vic C.
We sin; we sin all to easily. Even that first fleeting thought that enters into our heads is a sin. By God's very standards and decrees for and against man, it's impossible for us not to sin, somewhere, sometime in our lives. Because of that, it's impossible for us to do anything outside of hearing and believing.

You forget ‘repenting and confessing’, ‘following and obeying’ and ‘loving and forgiving’, to name a few things that God requires of us. What would you say and do if you told your son to clean his room and he tossed some dirty socks in the hamper and then sat down and played video games all afternoon because you could do a much better job of cleaning it than him, and he couldn’t do it to your satisfaction without a lot of ‘painful’ effort on his part and he could never ever do a perfect job, because he is only human?

quote by vic C.
I'm not a 5-pointer, but I understand enough to know that... it's never been about me; it's always been about HIM. The Bible isn't about how we can save ourselves; it's about God's plan of salvation for Man, not to mention God's main way of revealing Himself and His nature to us. We please Him by doing and displease Him by not doing, but the former doesn't get us saved and the latter doesn't negate one's salvation.

Lets try not confuse trying to live a sinless with justification.

VicC, we are supposed to get rid of as much sin and rebellion in our lives as we possibly can because there is coming a judgment day when we will go through the fires and the more sin we have harbored in our souls, the hotter those fires will burn. We all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, not some but all. There will be no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Being ‘in Christ Jesus’ is more than “hearing and believingâ€Â, it’s believing and doing. The lastwords of Jesus to his disciples in Mathew are “go into all the world telling them that I have died so they are free from sin by simply believingâ€Â…no, wait, I think I have that wrong…

 

[Vic C.]

You make some good points, But you also make some very bad ones too. We obviously believe in two different gospels, or have a different understanding of the Gospel. So debate amongst yourselves; I'm comfortable knowing that any good I do comes from above and not from me. :angel:

 

[unred typo]

VicC, do you think God is so insecure that he can’t stand for man to do any part of saving himself? Think about it. When Adam was in the garden, did God do all the work for him? Did God name the animals or did Adam? Did God pick the fruit and give it to them or did he let them choose it for themselves? God hasn’t changed even though man is flawed. He is not intimidated by allowing us the ability to choose to follow Christ or not. As long as we realize that without the blood, we could not take care of our own sin, he isn’t concerned that we get the praise and credit due us for obeying and following his son. He fully intends to commend us himself.

Your sense of extreme humility reminds me of the attitude of the servant who was given a bag of money to invest. He was so sure that his master could do it so much better and easier than he could that he buried it in the ground. You probably know the story and how it ends. If God didn’t think we could do what he asks us to do, he wouldn’t have asked us to do it and told us how.

 

[guibox]

unred, how do you define and explain Ephesians 2:8-9?

It seems like you are saying that works can't save us before Christ, but after accepting Christ they do save us? Living sinless before Christ is a waste of time, but living sinless after Christ is important to our salvation?

Is Ephesians supposed to be interpreted in this manner? Is 'being saved by works' before Christ a complete contradiction as the bible says that we are spiritually dead and cannot choose God without His prompting? So isn't Ephesians also applicable to those in Christ as well?

Just curious how you explain it all...

thanks

 

[unred typo]

quote by guibox on Fri Nov 09, 2007:

unred, how do you define and explain Ephesians 2:8-9?

I will be happy to explain it all, one verse or chapter at a time, guibox. Let’s take Ephesians 2:8-9 and I’ll throw in 10 as a bonus. Buy 2, get the third one free. :wink:

8For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This says basically that the whole plan of salvation was God’s idea, ordained from the beginning, not based on works but because of his mercy he made the plan to save us, provided the sacrifice needed and freely offers the cleansing blood to all who confess and repent. Christ did not die for us because we were so good, but because he loves us, in spite of our sin. When it came to paying for our sin, we were poverty stricken. He paid the payment we could not come up with.

What part of that says that we don’t have to repent or confess our sin in order for the blood to take our sin away? In fact, what part of that says that we no longer are required to obey and follow him if we repent and confess our sin? Doesn’t it stand to reason that if we repent of not following his commands, we will be more vigilant to keep his commands now that we realize and admit our guilt? If we don’t, have we even repented at all?

quote by guibox:
It seems like you are saying that works can't save us before Christ, but after accepting Christ they do save us

No, that’s not what I said. Without the sacrifice of Christ, any amount of works would not have saved any one of us. A sacrifice for sin had to be made and only a perfect man could offer himself in our place. Once he did that, the way of salvation was opened up for all to be saved by repentance and following Christ, doing what he told us to do. That doesn’t change the fact that the reason that he gave himself was because of his great love for all mankind, not because he owed us salvation in payment for good deeds which man had previously done.

Having established his motives for saving us were not because of mankind’s works, we can’t boast that we earned the blood of Christ. He gave it freely by grace. Now how does the blood get applied to our sin? Through confession and repentance by the followers of Christ.

quote by guibox:

Is Ephesians supposed to be interpreted in this manner? Is 'being saved by works' before Christ a complete contradiction as the bible says that we are spiritually dead and cannot choose God without His prompting? So isn't Ephesians also applicable to those in Christ as well?
Just curious how you explain it all...
Thanks

I’m curious as to where you get the idea that we are spiritually dead and cannot choose God without his prompting. What do you mean by ’prompting’? Do you mean by sending his word in the human flesh of his son to preach the way of eternal life to us? Do you mean sending out the call to all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel that Jesus preached for three years? Isn’t that enough prompting? Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God. The word of God comes to us in many forms, i.e. the Bible containing the words of Jesus, the still. small voice of the Holy Spirit, in dreams and visions, through teachers and prophets, etc.)and if we don’t turn a deaf ear, reject or resist it, the word will take root and grow, producing faith and fruit.