Logical Fallacies - just for your information

[OzSpen]

we all have opinions.. and your scripture back up is what?

Your post at #49 had no scriptural support and my post was following your example. It did not need book, chapter and verse as that would have been irrelevant to your topic to which I was replying.

 

[Free]

Please don't start with me.

Here's a taste of logic. No person, none of us, can make a claim to "all truth." Therefore all forms of man's logic are LIMITED. This is neither a red herring or a strawman, but a hard line fact. Any logical determination by man is, by it's nature of lack of all information, LIMITED.

Man's logic has it's inherent built in faults and those faults are IN man, and that's really all there is to the conversations about logic. No forms of man's logic are going to gain us "all truth."

No one here is making that claim, that I can see.

Every form of man's logic should come with this automatic disclaimer:

"I don't know everything."

That rather goes without saying, does it not?

 

[OzSpen]

Please don't start with me.

Here's a taste of logic. No person, none of us, can make a claim to "all truth." Therefore all forms of man's logic are LIMITED. This is neither a red herring or a strawman, but a hard line fact. Any logical determination by man is, by it's nature of lack of all information, LIMITED.

Man's logic has it's inherent built in faults and those faults are IN man, and that's really all there is to the conversations about logic. No forms of man's logic are going to gain us "all truth."

Every form of man's logic should come with this automatic disclaimer:

"I don't know everything."

This is a red herring when compared with what I wrote.

 

[Jim Parker]

jasonc
the next point of the A&T may just be your/my lack of sentence structure..

Some people (not you) post strings of words, which the think are sentences, that convey absolutely nothing because the grammar is so abysmal as to render their post gibberish. I have read posts that I had no way of figuring out what they were trying to say.

It's not a sin to use correct grammar and logic. It enables people to be understood.

 

[jasonc]

I never post gibberish.nope,nope not me.ed

 

[smaller]

No one here is making that claim, that I can see.

That rather goes without saying, does it not?

Logically speaking, yes. I respect Paul's statements of fact that he only saw in part and as through a glass darkly. That fact prohibits a lot of claims and is a proper disclaimer for anyone handling the scriptures.

The real "logical question" that arises from this is why are there so few in the field of theology who take that fact in hand?

 

[reba]

The Word is far more complex than we give HIM credit for. It defies such notions.

AMEN

 

[jasonc]

I won't say I read every single commentary .However,if we are all honest we will defend a position and void logic over our preference to it via emotions.The Army calls those icebergs.Everyone has them.Ego is a problem,it's not like you will not have that in any position you take.

 

[smaller]

This is a red herring when compared with what I wrote.

You might learn to be more patient with dialog before casting the charges. What might seem to be a red herring to you may very well be because you have failed to test your positions to other forms of logic, which is almost always the case.

I personally like to put any theological claims to the test. I've had to change my theological positions because of this practice (from freewiller to determinist for example. NOT in the classic sense mind you.) I also greatly respect some of the final conclusions of the early churches, say in the Nicene creed for example for their logic/reasoning principles and consider them quite sound from the scriptural perspectives. The principles are nearly inviolate as a basis for our dialogs and understandings. I only wish they wouldn't have tried to put on the mantle of knowing everything and perhaps we wouldn't be so divided today?

BTW, just a side note. I attended a funeral for one of my relatives recently, a Lutheran rite. And communion was offered to every christian, even if they were not Lutheran. I participated, of course. But it was the first time in my lifetime that "ALL" of my relatives went forward and shared in that. It was quite nice, actually. And very bonding. It prompted quite a bit of helpful dialog after the ceremony between everyone, and more importantly, discussions about JESUS, my favorite topic!

 

[reba]

Do I need a scripture reference to back up a statement of fact.
If I say 10 X 10 = 100, do I need to back that up with scripture?
If I say "science" is "knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through experiments and observation" my source for that was the Miriam-Webster dictionary, not the Bible.
The list of logical fallacies describes common errors that everybody makes. It isn't about theology so looking for a scriptural back up for them is like looking for one to back up the arithmetic or the definition of "science."

Am I making any sense?????
Or just muddying the water?


jim

this forum was sit aside for the discussion of Apologetics & Theology but that has changed it took a while but it is done..

Christian Theology is by definition the study of God through His word, the Bible. Apologetics goes hand in hand with theology as it is the branch of Christian theology which attempts to give a rational defense of the Christian faith. That makes the Apologetics and Theology forum unique from many of our other forums in that this is a place specifically for these types of discussions.

With this in mind, the following guidelines should be followed.

• Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture.
• Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies.
• Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture.
• Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting.
• Once you have made a point, refrain from flooding the forum with numerous posts making the same point over and over with nothing new to support it.
• You may ask a member questions as to what they believe on certain topics relative to the subject of the thread, but please keep in mind the member is under no obligation to answer.
• Failing to answer someone’s question doesn’t necessarily amount to an admission of error or surrender but keep in mind that in any debate if you refuse to or can not answer a reasonable question, it may weaken your position.

 

[reba]

Your post at #49 had no scriptural support and my post was following your example. It did not need book, chapter and verse as that would have been irrelevant to your topic to which I was replying.

nope the rules/guidelines dont mater. welcome to cf.com

 

[Jim Parker]

Apologetics goes hand in hand with theology

And discussing apologetics goes hand in hand with logical discourse.
Therefore, it behooves anyone engaged in theological debate to be aware of logical fallacies in order to correctly present their position.
Just as you expect people to use the English language in accordance with the rules of of English grammar so as to be understood (without a scriptural reference for every word) so it is reasonable to expect people to be able to present their arguments in accordance with the rules of logic so as to be understood. As correct English grammar has no basis in scripture, neither does logic.

Looking for a scriptural basis for logic is like expecting every cow to have a spare tire and a jack.

 

[jasonc]

nope the rules/guidelines dont mater. welcome to cf.com

Do you feel inferior to some here?I ask because I seldom talk or post about my inferiority complex around certain people. Try being around a pentalingual.Spanish, English, French,Italian, Portuguese,German.That is intimidating to me.I try not to show it but it's there.He and I think his wife are both that way.Yet there views on my color and town has forced me to see my town in a different light .Vero Beach is a very country backwards town.He hates this area.I can see why.His sons are learning Spanish.so yes I do feel inferior to him.He is also an ordained youth pastor.He isn't the only one.It occurs in the veterans groups

 

[smaller]

Here is a bit of logic that everyone may enjoy.

On the day you accepted Christ into your heart did you know everything about Jesus, all His Word, all His Ways?

I can easily answer no. I can also answer that I never will know.

Was man's logic or my own The Revealer of Himself? Uh, no.

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

 

[reba]

inferior no ... we are all sinners saved by grace... my talents are not in using words.. .. I am just extremely saddened to watch my 'church' home leaning the way it is.. Others are happy about it.. just different views .. I have decided to voice mine today..
My thoughts.. a personal story..
Our future son in law was being put down by a teacher ( i was working at the school) she was telling me how dumb he was... When she finished i ask her if she could weld. see he had won awards for welding.. In your case jasonc it takes talant to repair cars..

 

[jasonc]

Why is it that christians, particularly lay pastors assume logic and thinking are not required for being a Christian?

Logic isn't a be all,know all.

 

[reba]

I have always understood the scriptures to be logical..

 

[reba]

Just so there is no confusion what i have posted here today is from reba the member not reba the admin..

 

[jasonc]

inferior no ... we are all sinners saved by grace... my talents are not in using words.. .. I am just extremely saddened to watch my 'church' home leaning the way it is.. Others are happy about it.. just different views .. I have decided to voice mine today..
My thoughts.. a personal story..
Our future son in law was being put down by a teacher ( i was working at the school) she was telling me how dumb he was... When she finished i ask her if she could weld. see he had won awards for welding.. In your case jasonc it takes talant to repair cars..

I have always been one who has struggled in conveying of thoughts in person or on paper .Surely if I can brief soldiers ,and rate them,counsel them ,place them up for an award,you can improve your grammar.I had to relearn how to write and put words into a essay for college.It's a skill easily lost if you don't use it.I do use it for the military. One need not be a William Lane Graig,Apostle Paul, etc to articulate effectively what you want to say. This is an iceberg for me.

On that note the truck I purchased is a 2004 Toyota Tacoma. It had a code po 0446,0451.I bought an all data repair manual online to see the flowchart .so far the loose gas cap is the cause.

Children are as an enigma to me .my complex thoughts ,deep thinking is the reason.I don't do small talk.Try teaching kids with my disposition. That's another thread.

 

[OzSpen]

nope the rules/guidelines dont mater. welcome to cf.com

Are you disparaging another forum? What does 'dont mater' mean? I need your logic to guide me.