Long hair on men

[elijah23]

Was Paul correct when he made this remark:

Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him 1 Cor 11:14 RSV

 

[Dude named Louis]

Wow, I'd like to hear some comments on this. I don't have long hair anymore (I barely have hair at all) but it never bothered me, yet it seems pretty clear what Paul says. I guess I always figured it's a matter of feminization than anything. Long hair on a dude can still look macho. I guess the other question is "how long is long"?

 

[seekandlisten]

Well, if you back it up to verse 13 is says, "judge for yourselves" in regards to this question. You could also back it up to 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible, but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others." This would aid greatly in the question of 'judging for yourself.'

 

[ronniechoate34]

Was Paul correct when he made this remark:

Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him 1 Cor 11:14 RSV

1Co:11:14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co:11:15: But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


Now that's correct.

 

[ronniechoate34]

??

 

[ronniechoate34]

Well, if you back it up to verse 13 is says, "judge for yourselves" in regards to this question. You could also back it up to 1 Corinthians 10:23-24 "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible, but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others." This would aid greatly in the question of 'judging for yourself.'

1Co:11:1: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co:11:2: Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co:11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co:11:4: Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co:11:5: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
1Co:11:6: For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1Co:11:7: For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co:11:8: For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
1Co:11:9: Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
1Co:11:10: For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
1Co:11:11: Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co:11:12: For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
1Co:11:13: Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1Co:11:14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co:11:15: But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.


Judge what? Judge what's right. That's what.

 

[handy]

To really get into this text, one must also ask, in what way does nature teach that long hair is degrading?

In what way does nature teach that long hair on a man is degrading? Hair, whether on men or women, will naturally grow long. So what does Paul mean by "nature"?

I think that the text bears out that what Paul is referring to is the natural order of roles between men and women. Adam was created before Eve and that woman was created with Adam "over" her, her hair being a symbol of Adam's headship.

Doesn't make sense in this culture, but in that culture it did. Anymore that if a woman walks around without a scarf on her head, she is disgraced, a reference that again, made sense in that culture but not in this.

Since this reflects a cultural symbol of a permanent truth, I think what is important is to not be caught up in the symbolism, but observe the truth: that women are under men and even within the church setting, whether when prophesying or praying, women ought to be mindful of the role God has us in.

Looking at it this way, I don't think it really matters whether a man wears long hair or if a woman goes to church without a scarf or hat.

 

[ronniechoate34]

To really get into this text, one must also ask, in what way does nature teach that long hair is degrading?

In what way does nature teach that long hair on a man is degrading? Hair, whether on men or women, will naturally grow long. So what does Paul mean by "nature"?

Being a man I can say without a doubt that I do not intend for anyone to mistake me for a woman. Whether unintentional on my part or not. I don't want some dude looking at me and thinking even for a second that I may be a cute woman. Some men try for this look. It's not right, and it's unnatural.

Doesn't make sense in this culture, but in that culture it did. Anymore that if a woman walks around without a scarf on her head, she is disgraced, a reference that again, made sense in that culture but not in this.

My doctor wears a scarf on her head. I think it's a good thing. I'm not sure of her nationality.

 

[handy]

I've often thought about wearing a scarf. However, for me, and not saying this about any other woman who might ponder this, it would be more of a calling attention to myself, in a spiritually prideful way.

Now my mom wears a hat to church every Sunday. But then, so do a lot of the women of her age. Women of my age just don't, unless their Mennonite or Amish, neither of which I am. If I was to wear a hat, it would call attention to me, and it would seem to me like I would be saying, "Look how spiritual and godly I am." I just don't want to call that kind of attention to myself.

If there were a commandment, then it wouldn't matter. But, there is no commandment here.

 

[LaCrum]

To really get into this text, one must also ask, in what way does nature teach that long hair is degrading?

In what way does nature teach that long hair on a man is degrading? Hair, whether on men or women, will naturally grow long. So what does Paul mean by "nature"?

I think that the text bears out that what Paul is referring to is the natural order of roles between men and women. Adam was created before Eve and that woman was created with Adam "over" her, her hair being a symbol of Adam's headship.

Doesn't make sense in this culture, but in that culture it did. Anymore that if a woman walks around without a scarf on her head, she is disgraced, a reference that again, made sense in that culture but not in this.

Since this reflects a cultural symbol of a permanent truth, I think what is important is to not be caught up in the symbolism, but observe the truth: that women are under men and even within the church setting, whether when prophesying or praying, women ought to be mindful of the role God has us in.

Looking at it this way, I don't think it really matters whether a man wears long hair or if a woman goes to church without a scarf or hat.

That's an excellent sum-up of this verse Handy, one has to read the whole section to learn that these verses are pertaining to created roles within the Church.

 

[elijah23]

I think Paul is right. When I look at a person, I want to know right off whether or not it is a man I am looking at.

 

[handy]

I think Paul is right. When I look at a person, I want to know right off whether or not it is a man I am looking at.

Why? What difference in your heart is there if you are looking at a man or a woman?

 

[Orion]

"Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him 1 Cor 11:14 RSV"

How does nature say anything about length of hair. Also, if nature says anything, it is that length of hair be governed by what IS natural, which is hair that is uncut. So, it would be unnatural for me TO cut their hair.

 

[LaCrum]

I think Paul is right. When I look at a person, I want to know right off whether or not it is a man I am looking at.

So you think then it's wrong for women not to have long hair then? Or wrong for a woman not to wear a scarf or hat in church?

The point of the issue is you're taking the verse out of the context in which it was written.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Out of context? No way. Maybe in these latter days people's minds have been bent towards the unnatural. That's certainly the case in many instances. Like I said, I am a man. I know how a man naturally appears.

 

[Free]

Out of context? No way. Maybe in these latter days people's minds have been bent towards the unnatural. That's certainly the case in many instances. Like I said, I am a man. I know how a man naturally appears.

Correction: You know how you think a modern man should naturally appear. In the context of the NT, you do not know how men appeared, how long their hair was. One could even get into whether or not they wore pants...

 

[ronniechoate34]

Out of context? No way. Maybe in these latter days people's minds have been bent towards the unnatural. That's certainly the case in many instances. Like I said, I am a man. I know how a man naturally appears.

Correction: You know how you think a modern man should naturally appear. In the context of the NT, you do not know how men appeared, how long their hair was. One could even get into whether or not they wore pants...

1Co:11:14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


This is an accurate record isn't it?


I think some of you are missing the point which is judge what is right in all things. Not just concerning the length of a man's hair. Although it is right to keep a man's hair cut short.

 

[Free]

Out of context? No way. Maybe in these latter days people's minds have been bent towards the unnatural. That's certainly the case in many instances. Like I said, I am a man. I know how a man naturally appears.

Correction: You know how you think a modern man should naturally appear. In the context of the NT, you do not know how men appeared, how long their hair was. One could even get into whether or not they wore pants...

1Co:11:14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?


This is an accurate record isn't it?

The question has already been asked: how long is long? That is a very subjective term.

 

[Dude named Louis]

I can think of many men with long hair who don't look like women. I sometimes think of growing it longer like David Carradine had in Kill Bill.

My son wanted long hair and I didn't mind (though he just got it cut
for his role in a play).

 

[handy]

The bottom line on this whole subject is that this text isn't at all about men's hair, or even women's hair for that matter. The subject at hand are the roles, the natural roles, of men and women within the church.

Covering hair or cutting it isn't at all natural. Orion is right, one is altering the natural if one either covers or cuts one's hair. That is not what Paul is getting at regarding "nature". "Nature" in this context is the natural roles of men and women.

There is much liberty in Christ. If a man wants to wear his hair long, or if a woman wants to cut her hair short, there is freedom in Christ to do so. If however, within the culture one is in, a man's long hair or a woman's short or uncovered hair is a problem, then we need to follow the principle that is laid for us in Romans 14:20-22 "Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."