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[_ Old Earth _] Louisiana Unanimously Passes Academic Freedom Bill

John

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Baton Rouge, LA – Yesterday the Louisiana House Education Committee unanimously passed SB 733, an academic freedom bill. The bill requires that Louisiana schools shall "create and foster an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including, but not limited to, evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning." The passage followed testimony from four Ph.D. scientists, including three biologists, who testified in favor of the bill.

One biology professor from Louisiana College, Dr. Wade Warren, testified about how during his graduate studies at Texas A & M, the dean ordered him cease discussing scientific problems with students. Another biochemist, Dr. Brenda Peirson, testified about how random mutation and natural selection cannot produce many of the complex biological systems we see in the cell.

One of those scientists, Dr. Caroline Crocker, testified about her experience losing her job at George Mason University after she taught students about scientific arguments against neo-Darwinism. Southern University law professor and constitutional law expert Michelle Ghetti also testified that the bill was “perfectly constitutional.†After the scientists and other educators testified about the scientific problems with neo-Darwinism and the need to protect academic freedom, one LSU Darwinist biologist, Dr. Bryan Carstens, who opposed the bill had the temerity to claim: “let us be clear that there is no controversy among professional biologists about fact of evolution.†The glaring weakness in his false argument was not lost upon members of the legislature: he was immediately pressed by one legislator on the committee who asked the following:

In the document you just read and gave to us, in bold print it says, ‘let us be clear there is no controversy among biologists about the fact of evolution.’ Did you hear the testimony of the other professors we had here that were speaking before this committee?

Dr. Carstens then showed his intolerance towards professional biologists who were Darwin-skeptics. Carstens refused to admit their existence and in fact only admitted that faculty who testified against evolution had Ph.D.’s in “chemistry.†Of course only one of the Ph.D.’s was a chemist, and three of them were professional biologists. The truth of the matter is that Dr. Carstens’ entire statement shows the intolerance towards Darwin-skeptics in the scientific community: Not only was he unable and unwilling to admit, under oath, the existence of the three professional biologists who had just testified against evolution before the committee, but his statement asserted the blatantly false claim that “there is no controversy among professional biologists about fact of evolution.†It’s tough to convince people of that claim when three professional biologists testified otherwise.

Of course Dr. Carstens has every right to testify in favor of evolution. But to testify that there is “no controversy†among “professional biologists†implies that scientists who doubt Darwinism do not exist. Imagine you are an LSU biologist with fundamental doubts about Darwinism and you see your colleagues signing a statement asserting that your views don't exist. Would the declaration of the LSU biologists that there is “no controversy†over evolution make you confident that you have the academic freedom to express such dissenting views in the laboratory or the classroom? Of course not. In fact, Dr. Carstens’ testimony, and his intolerant behavior, validate the need for this academic freedom bill.

It was clear from the hearing that Louisiana Darwinists are growing more and more desperate. Like their dogmatic compatriots in Florida who still proudly proclaim that academic freedom is “smelly crap†Darwinists are making absurd claims in their desperation to keep anyone from questioning Darwinian evolution as taught in public schools. American’s United for Separation of Church & State is now attacking home-schoolers:

Yesterday’s hearing was packed with home-schoolers wearing stickers in support of the bill. Home schoolers won’t be affected by the measure, of course, so it doesn’t take much analysis to see what’s going on here. (Kids, you may have learned something about politics, but you flunked science. Be sure to tell your momma when you get home so she can change your report cards.)

AUSCS then concludes:

SB 733 is a step backward, dragging science education in Louisiana toward the medieval swamp of theocracy.

Theocracy? We shouldn’t be too surprised, by their own admission their testimony to the Louisiana State House Committee on Education was “frantic.†Yet ironically, Barbara Forrest’s testimony was especially conspiratorial when she warned legislators that €œDiscovery Institute is watching your every moveâ€Â! What Darwinists always fail to point out is that the testimony legislators heard supporting the evolution academic freedom view was from scientists, including professional biologists, not-home
 
They tried this before. And the court slapped them down the last time. Creationists are frantic to find a way to force their religion in to public schools.

I don't think this one will work, either.

First time someone takes the law to mean "teach creationism", it's a goner. And it won't be long.
 
No, just to force humanizim out.

There is nothing wrong with teaching the controversies and weak points in Evolution.
 
Is this not true or what?.....
Dr. Carstens then showed his intolerance towards professional biologists who were Darwin-skeptics
everytime someone differs with their religion the "theory" of evolution...........

Because when.............
One biology professor from Louisiana College, Dr. Wade Warren, testified about how during his graduate studies at Texas A & M, the dean ordered him cease discussing scientific problems with students. Another biochemist, Dr. Brenda Peirson, testified about how random mutation and natural selection cannot produce many of the complex biological systems we see in the cell.

....well reason is as plain as the nose on my face, anytime or anyone that speaks out against evolution, well they must be of a lesser form of human... haven't evolved enough yet...

Yes I believe creation... ID... should also be taught in school. If nothing else, then just as an argument against evolution.... what are they afraid of...... evolution being proved wrong.... or to cast a dark shadow on it...

I know I know ... here we go again...
 
It's just another back door for Creationism/ID. It will make Louisiana a laughing stock for most of the world.

Congratulations on your "win".
 
You see its contagious, other states will pick up. And please someone tell me why its a bad thing to teach the other side of the coin and the weak points of evolution? I thought evolution was 100% fact, obviously 94 out of 97 people who were passing this bill did not think so.
 
John, the issue is this bill is a back handed way of trying to introduce Creationism/ID into schools. There is no controversy with Evolution within scientific circles. Just because you have 94 out of 97 people who have a poor understanding of science and evolution, it doesn't make them right.

What are the perceived weak points of evolution that you'd like to be taught?

Would you like the weaknesses (which would certainly be a full time course) of Creationism/ID to also be taught in school?
 
If evolution is so true, please tell me why evolutionists are so scared and desperate?

http://www.richarddawkins.net/article,2 ... or-Science

Yes, why withhold information from the kids? why can't the teacher just say " Kids this is another theory on how everything came to be, God" and spend like 1 class on it, then continue teaching the preferred evolution theory, while at least telling the kids about the weak spots. what harm would that cause?
 
Weak points just off the top of my head.

Life was not created in the lab.
Teach the history of frauds.
Tell the kids about the aborigines.
Tell them about the weakness of the "missing links" of man.
Recent discovery's like Dino DNA being uncovered.
The weakness of Dating methods.
The Highly improbable nature of the whole shebang.
I could go on all night.
 
People who support evolution aren't scared and desperate, they are extremely concerned and alarmed by all the underhanded ways the Creation/ID movement is trying to infiltrate schools.

If you want to teach kids Creationism, then why not every other creation myth? That's the logical end point of introducing creationism.
 
John, your list of weak points highlights either your ignorance or your deliberate distortion. You know full well, that most of those points don't relate to evolution and the ones that do have been thoroughly discredited.

This is exactly the reason why people get very concerned when this is the type of junk science that a minority want taught to our children.
 
first off its not junk science just because the evolution group does not agree with it ..ID.. and then you come back by saying
"your ignorance or your deliberate distortion"
because we don't agree, we are now lesser of a person... why is it that evolutionist always attacks the person's character when we choose to not follow evolution. After all if we to look at everything the ToE says under a scope I think the evolution group would be embarrassed , and afraid to admit it....
 
John et al have been told time and time and time again what evolution actually is. For whatever reason (ignorance, forgetfulness, or distortion), this is constantly ignored and a Creationist definition of evolution is used, which is far moved from reality.

This is why evolutionists (both theist and atheist) get so frustrated when debating creationists. It's very much a process of thumping ones head against a wall.
 
It makes an impression. Don't think it doesn't. They won't admit it, in most cases, but even the most closed-minded creationist thinks, and once you plant the seeds, they grow.

Slowly in some cases, but they grow. And that's all that's needed.

Patience is a virtue when talking with creationists.
 
I would love to know what that biologist did to justify her claim that evolution couldn't have occurred in parts of the cell.


And for the last time: ID IS NOT SCIENCE. Even if we wanted to teach we weaknesses of evolution in the science classroom, this would not introduce ID into the classroom as an alternate theory. We have shown many times on this very forum how ID is not science, how astrology would be science if we were to include it. It cannot be tested formally.

I welcome criticism of evolution in the classroom as long as it doesn't lead to pseudoscience getting into the classroom.
 
It's not been a good few years for ID/creationism. They've lost one court case after another, one of their grand klegals admitted under oath that ID is science in the same sense that Astrology is science, and each new discovery in biology cuts the ground out from under them.

It's the last generation that will seriously entertain creationism as a reasonable alternative to orthodox Christianity.
 
John, Jindal talks about having the best science in class. I have no problem with that, as Creationism/ID sure 'aint science. :lol:
 
^ like i said many times, how is withholding information beneficial to the kids? If anything explain ID even for just one class then go on teaching evolution for the rest of the year, and let the kids decide. what harm is there in that?
 
johnmuise said:
^ like i said many times, how is withholding information beneficial to the kids? If anything explain ID even for just one class then go on teaching evolution for the rest of the year, and let the kids decide. what harm is there in that?

The fact that you're devoting time to pseudoscience in the science classroom. It further blurs the already confused line between the two.
 
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